So how does 28 pt underdog Elon come in to Bridgeforth Stadium and convert only 1-15 third downs yet walk away with a giant upset victory.

Here is what I can remember. Help me complete the list.

1 Riley Stapleton dropping multiple passes , 2 of which were simple uncontested catches in his self described worst college game ever.
2 Dylan Stapleton fumbling the ball in the game clinching drive in the open field with clear sight of the tackler and electing not to secure the ball. not a good day for the Stapleton family.
3 Trai Sharp not stretching the ball over the goal line on the failed 2 point conversion. Cmon man. The Dukes could have been up 7 even with the Stapleton fumble.
4 The Nooch looking like he left poise in the locker room. There was plenty of time to drive down the field for a game tying field goal or winning touchdown. He looked very shaky in crunch time.
5 Coach Houston blowing timeouts because he wasn’t mentally prepared for game situations. Those 2 blown timeouts in the 2nd half May have given the Nooch more comfort on the final drive knowing he would have all three timeouts to dink and dunk down the field. The wasted timeouts were reminiscent of Mickey Mathews.
6 speaking of Mickey Mathews, was he coaching in the first half? JMU kicked 3 field goals and punted twice on 4th and short in Elon territory all in the first half. Houston was ultra conservative and looked like he was playing not to lose. The game could have been put away by halftime.
7 The referee video review. How a grown man with sound vision could overturn the Nooch’s great scramble and claim “down knee” when watching it repeatedly in slow motion is beyond me. Complete and utter incompetence. That was a huge 3rd down pickup by the Nooch which had momentum implications.
8 the immaculate reception on Elon’s winning drive. Talk about pulling a horseshoe out of your bunghole. Tipped by receiver one and magically floated directly to receiver two.
9 the onside kick that took a possesion from JMU. I couldn’t see the 2 JMU players closest to the ball that made the cardinal sin of turning their back on the kick before verifying it was in flight. Undisciplined football.
10 Rondell Carter’s penalty behind the punt return touchdown by Amos. Undisciplined football.
11 Speaking of Amos, he had a horrible mental game. Somehow he lets 2 receivers get behind him for over the top passes on the same drive. If you want to be a starting safety, you can’t let receivers get behind you. Give up 15yard plays, but not 40 yard plays. That is the definition of safety.
He also inexplicably tried to field a punt on the bounce with defenders barreling down on him and fumbled when popped. JMU luckily recovered his brain freeze.
12 Houston electing to not consistently overload against the Elon run game. They had a weak link at QB and I fully expected 7 or 8 in the box all day against Elon forcing Cheek to lose he game with his arm. Nope. Quite often Houston maintained the base 4-2 alignment even in early downs. When he did tighten up the alignment the Dukes were very effective at closing all running lanes and dropping the RB behind the line of scrimmage. When JMU was aligned in the 4-2, they got gouged way too often. Maybe Ron’Dell Carter will need to drop down to a DT rotation until Atariwa comes back.

I’m sure there are more things I can’t remember. It felt like a comedy of errors.

Losing to Elon. Oof. That one is going to hurt for a long time.

The hands to the face penalty on the pick 6. That was a huge swing play that could have given us a good lead and the momentum for the rest of the game. Instead it gave them more momentum and confidence bc their mistakes were always trumped by our mistakes. That one hurt. A lot.

(10-07-2018 08:57 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  So how does 28 pt underdog Elon come in to Bridgeforth Stadium and convert only 1-15 third downs yet walk away with a giant upset victory.

Here is what I can remember. Help me complete the list.

1 Riley Stapleton dropping multiple passes , 2 of which were simple uncontested catches in his self described worst college game ever.
2 Dylan Stapleton fumbling the ball in the game clinching drive in the open field with clear sight of the tackler and electing not to secure the ball. not a good day for the Stapleton family.
3 Trai Sharp not stretching the ball over the goal line on the failed 2 point conversion. Cmon man. The Dukes could have been up 7 even with the Stapleton fumble.
4 The Nooch looking like he left poise in the locker room. There was plenty of time to drive down the field for a game tying field goal or winning touchdown. He looked very shaky in crunch time.
5 Coach Houston blowing timeouts because he wasn’t mentally prepared for game situations. Those 2 blown timeouts in the 2nd half May have given the Nooch more comfort on the final drive knowing he would have all three timeouts to dink and dunk down the field. The wasted timeouts were reminiscent of Mickey Mathews.
6 speaking of Mickey Mathews, was he coaching in the first half? JMU kicked 3 field goals and punted twice on 4th and short in Elon territory all in the first half. Houston was ultra conservative and looked like he was playing not to lose. The game could have been put away by halftime.
7 The referee video review. How a grown man with sound vision could overturn the Nooch’s great scramble and claim “down knee” when watching it repeatedly in slow motion is beyond me. Complete and utter incompetence. That was a huge 3rd down pickup by the Nooch which had momentum implications.
8 the immaculate reception on Elon’s winning drive. Talk about pulling a horseshoe out of your bunghole. Tipped by receiver one and magically floated directly to receiver two.
9 the onside kick that took a possesion from JMU. I couldn’t see the 2 JMU players closest to the ball that made the cardinal sin of turning their back on the kick before verifying it was in flight. Undisciplined football.
10 Rondell Carter’s penalty behind the punt return touchdown by Amos. Undisciplined football.
11 Speaking of Amos, he had a horrible mental game. Somehow he lets 2 receivers get behind him for over the top passes on the same drive. If you want to be a starting safety, you can’t let receivers get behind you. Give up 15yard plays, but not 40 yard plays. That is the definition of safety.
He also inexplicably tried to field a punt on the bounce with defenders barreling down on him and fumbled when popped. JMU luckily recovered his brain freeze.
12 Houston electing to not consistently overload against the Elon run game. They had a weak link at QB and I fully expected 7 or 8 in the box all day against Elon forcing Cheek to lose he game with his arm. Nope. Quite often Houston maintained the base 4-2 alignment even in early downs. When he did tighten up the alignment the Dukes were very effective at closing all running lanes and dropping the RB behind the line of scrimmage. When JMU was aligned in the 4-2, they got gouged way too often. Maybe Ron’Dell Carter will need to drop down to a DT rotation until Atariwa comes back.

I’m sure there are more things I can’t remember. It felt like a comedy of errors.

Losing to Elon. Oof. That one is going to hurt for a long time.

Games are going to have mistakes ... by the players, the coaches and, yes, even the referees. But the call reversal broke every rule that is consistent with video replay. The video evidence must be clear and convincing to OVERTURN a call made on the field. This is NOT what happened. The call on the field was no sack, play continues, JMU gets a first down. I think whoever the replay referee was HAD to be dipping into the club bar at some point. Even Elon fans would have to agree we got screwed on that one.

(10-07-2018 10:15 PM)Oldduke Wrote:  

(10-07-2018 08:57 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  So how does 28 pt underdog Elon come in to Bridgeforth Stadium and convert only 1-15 third downs yet walk away with a giant upset victory.

Here is what I can remember. Help me complete the list.

1 Riley Stapleton dropping multiple passes , 2 of which were simple uncontested catches in his self described worst college game ever.
2 Dylan Stapleton fumbling the ball in the game clinching drive in the open field with clear sight of the tackler and electing not to secure the ball. not a good day for the Stapleton family.
3 Trai Sharp not stretching the ball over the goal line on the failed 2 point conversion. Cmon man. The Dukes could have been up 7 even with the Stapleton fumble.
4 The Nooch looking like he left poise in the locker room. There was plenty of time to drive down the field for a game tying field goal or winning touchdown. He looked very shaky in crunch time.
5 Coach Houston blowing timeouts because he wasn’t mentally prepared for game situations. Those 2 blown timeouts in the 2nd half May have given the Nooch more comfort on the final drive knowing he would have all three timeouts to dink and dunk down the field. The wasted timeouts were reminiscent of Mickey Mathews.
6 speaking of Mickey Mathews, was he coaching in the first half? JMU kicked 3 field goals and punted twice on 4th and short in Elon territory all in the first half. Houston was ultra conservative and looked like he was playing not to lose. The game could have been put away by halftime.
7 The referee video review. How a grown man with sound vision could overturn the Nooch’s great scramble and claim “down knee” when watching it repeatedly in slow motion is beyond me. Complete and utter incompetence. That was a huge 3rd down pickup by the Nooch which had momentum implications.
8 the immaculate reception on Elon’s winning drive. Talk about pulling a horseshoe out of your bunghole. Tipped by receiver one and magically floated directly to receiver two.
9 the onside kick that took a possesion from JMU. I couldn’t see the 2 JMU players closest to the ball that made the cardinal sin of turning their back on the kick before verifying it was in flight. Undisciplined football.
10 Rondell Carter’s penalty behind the punt return touchdown by Amos. Undisciplined football.
11 Speaking of Amos, he had a horrible mental game. Somehow he lets 2 receivers get behind him for over the top passes on the same drive. If you want to be a starting safety, you can’t let receivers get behind you. Give up 15yard plays, but not 40 yard plays. That is the definition of safety.
He also inexplicably tried to field a punt on the bounce with defenders barreling down on him and fumbled when popped. JMU luckily recovered his brain freeze.
12 Houston electing to not consistently overload against the Elon run game. They had a weak link at QB and I fully expected 7 or 8 in the box all day against Elon forcing Cheek to lose he game with his arm. Nope. Quite often Houston maintained the base 4-2 alignment even in early downs. When he did tighten up the alignment the Dukes were very effective at closing all running lanes and dropping the RB behind the line of scrimmage. When JMU was aligned in the 4-2, they got gouged way too often. Maybe Ron’Dell Carter will need to drop down to a DT rotation until Atariwa comes back.

I’m sure there are more things I can’t remember. It felt like a comedy of errors.

Losing to Elon. Oof. That one is going to hurt for a long time.

Games are going to have mistakes ... by the players, the coaches and, yes, even the referees. But the call reversal broke every rule that is consistent with video replay. The video evidence must be clear and convincing to OVERTURN a call made on the field. This is NOT what happened. The call on the field was no sack, play continues, JMU gets a first down. I think whoever the replay referee was HAD to be dipping into the club bar at some point. Even Elon fans would have to agree we got screwed on that one.

Did he go to a knee to collect the snap maybe? Because once he had the ball in his hands, his knee was nowhere near the ground. Was it a low snap? I can't remember, and they never showed the actual snap on the video screen.

On the broadcast recording, from some angles (overhead?) it looked possible his knee went down while he was avoiding the tackle, and seemed like an almost impossible escape.

From other angles (rear?) it was clear while his knee bent, it never touched the turf.

Likely the review officials did a rush job and didn’t look at all camera angles closely enough.

This is one play that definitely should be sent in to the CAA offices for review, very bad outcome on an incorrect reversal. That play, the called back pick 6, and the Dylan drop were killers this game. All 3 could have changed the outcome.

Revolving door at left guard. Just rewatched game. Starting LG #60 Jahee Jackson was supposedly indefinitely suspended. Well, that indefinite didn’t last long.

LG:
1st half:
-1st series #67 Zaire Bethea
-Rest of 1st half: #60 Jahee Jackson. 2nd qtr holding call 2nd and 9 from the Elon 13 was on Jackson, but the stats say Bethea. 2 plays after the hold he didn’t pick up a blitzing LB who sacked Dinucci. That was the last series in the game Jackson played..

2nd half:
-1st series #69 Truvell Wilson—
-Rest of 2nd half: All Bethea. Not only that, Jackson didn’t appear to be on the sideline.

So Jackson, who was supposedly indefintely suspended, played almost the entire 1st half, but none of the 2nd half, and didn’t even appear to be on the sideline. And he also isn’t listed in the participation stats. So WTF is going on there?

(10-07-2018 11:41 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  Revolving door at left guard. Just rewatched game. Starting LG #60 Jahee Jackson was supposedly indefinitely suspended. Well, that indefinite didn’t last long.

LG:
1st half:
-1st series #67 Zaire Bethea
-Rest of 1st half: #60 Jahee Jackson. 2nd qtr holding call 2nd and 9 from the Elon 13 was on Jackson, but the stats say Bethea. 2 plays after the hold he didn’t pick up a blitzing LB who sacked Dinucci. That was the last series in the game Jackson played..

2nd half:
-1st series #69 Truvell Wilson—
-Rest of 2nd half: All Bethea. Not only that, Jackson didn’t appear to be on the sideline.

So Jackson, who was supposedly indefintely suspended, played almost the entire 1st half, but none of the 2nd half, and didn’t even appear to be on the sideline. And he also isn’t listed in the participation stats. So WTF is going on there?

I was told by someone who should know that he was still suspended, I'd rather not say why but since I assumed he wasn't there I never actually looked for him. I'll see if I can confirm one way or another with some of his frat brothers. Someone told me we had a Freshman playing over there, but looking at the roster I don't see who that could be.

Coach has always been pretty conservative with kicking on 4th down; that isn't something that's new. When you lose a close game making those decisions, it looks bad. But when it works by putting points on the board and not allowing the other team to gain a big momentum swing, it's a lot quieter and less memorable.

I think we miss out on some statistically significant edges by not going for it on fourth and short in some spots, but usually it probably breaks about even. Like against NCSU, if we go for both of those fourth downs instead of kicking FGs, then we're probably down 17-14 at the end instead of 17-13 and end up with same outcome. (Assuming we'd get one of the fourth downs but not the other - arbitrary math but just spitballing that we're probably about 50% on fourth and short conversions. I could be off here because I didn't look it up.)

Agree with everything you posted here, but the fact that Houston was conservative on fourth down isn't a surprise - right or wrong.

(10-08-2018 05:30 AM)JMUSteeler Wrote:  

(10-07-2018 11:41 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  Revolving door at left guard. Just rewatched game. Starting LG #60 Jahee Jackson was supposedly indefinitely suspended. Well, that indefinite didn’t last long.

LG:
1st half:
-1st series #67 Zaire Bethea
-Rest of 1st half: #60 Jahee Jackson. 2nd qtr holding call 2nd and 9 from the Elon 13 was on Jackson, but the stats say Bethea. 2 plays after the hold he didn’t pick up a blitzing LB who sacked Dinucci. That was the last series in the game Jackson played..

2nd half:
-1st series #69 Truvell Wilson—
-Rest of 2nd half: All Bethea. Not only that, Jackson didn’t appear to be on the sideline.

So Jackson, who was supposedly indefintely suspended, played almost the entire 1st half, but none of the 2nd half, and didn’t even appear to be on the sideline. And he also isn’t listed in the participation stats. So WTF is going on there?

I was told by someone who should know that he was still suspended, I'd rather not say why but since I assumed he wasn't there I never actually looked for him. I'll see if I can confirm one way or another with some of his frat brothers. Someone told me we had a Freshman playing over there, but looking at the roster I don't see who that could be.

Confirmed that Jackson is still suspended, total was to be 5 games. I could have sworn that holding call was on #60 as well, but I've now talked to 2 completely separate sources who should know and both said he's still suspended.

(10-07-2018 11:41 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  Revolving door at left guard. Just rewatched game. Starting LG #60 Jahee Jackson was supposedly indefinitely suspended. Well, that indefinite didn’t last long.

LG:
1st half:
-1st series #67 Zaire Bethea
-Rest of 1st half: #60 Jahee Jackson. 2nd qtr holding call 2nd and 9 from the Elon 13 was on Jackson, but the stats say Bethea. 2 plays after the hold he didn’t pick up a blitzing LB who sacked Dinucci. That was the last series in the game Jackson played..

2nd half:
-1st series #69 Truvell Wilson—
-Rest of 2nd half: All Bethea. Not only that, Jackson didn’t appear to be on the sideline.

So Jackson, who was supposedly indefintely suspended, played almost the entire 1st half, but none of the 2nd half, and didn’t even appear to be on the sideline. And he also isn’t listed in the participation stats. So WTF is going on there?

I didn’t notice Jackson playing at all. Did I completely miss this?
If he played it seems Gillespie would have gone to the bench and players would have shifted positions

No names on the uniforms this week. Just said JMU. There was a #60 in the game. 5 game suspension means Jackson failed his second drug test. A third failed test means the athlete loses their scholarship.

I thought going for two when they were up 4 with about 7 minutes left was a bad choice by Houston. If Elon scores on their next possession, JMU likely only gets the ball one more time down 2 instead of 3. Why he did not kick the extra point was a head scratcher for me.

By the way, JMU under Houston has not been good in 4th and short situations. Maybe that is why Houston is kicking field goals. JMU had a failed 4th down in the 1st quarter on Saturday.

Bottom line is 2TDs called back due to penalties and a fumble when we were driving to ice the game kept this one from being 21 point or higher win. We simply allowed a good team to stay within striking distance and they scored a TD for the victory when they got the opportunity to do so.

Time to regroup and win our last five games. Then hope we still receive one of the top two seeds. Now we have to hope other people lose to do so.

Bethea ripped his #67 jersey, so he put on #60 till it was repaired.

Has anyone seen actual video of the penalty on the punt return TD? I recorded the game and I didn't see an angle where you were able to see the infraction. I only saw the flag fly across the screen when Amos was at about the 5 yard line.

On the 2 pt conversion, I thought that Sharp should have just driven straight ahead into the two defenders (who were still briefly still in the end zone) to try and make it over the goal line. By shifting left, he lost a lot of momentum and leverage and his footing.

(10-08-2018 06:54 AM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  

(10-07-2018 11:41 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  Revolving door at left guard. Just rewatched game. Starting LG #60 Jahee Jackson was supposedly indefinitely suspended. Well, that indefinite didn’t last long.

LG:
1st half:
-1st series #67 Zaire Bethea
-Rest of 1st half: #60 Jahee Jackson. 2nd qtr holding call 2nd and 9 from the Elon 13 was on Jackson, but the stats say Bethea. 2 plays after the hold he didn’t pick up a blitzing LB who sacked Dinucci. That was the last series in the game Jackson played..

2nd half:
-1st series #69 Truvell Wilson—
-Rest of 2nd half: All Bethea. Not only that, Jackson didn’t appear to be on the sideline.

So Jackson, who was supposedly indefintely suspended, played almost the entire 1st half, but none of the 2nd half, and didn’t even appear to be on the sideline. And he also isn’t listed in the participation stats. So WTF is going on there?

I didn’t notice Jackson playing at all. Did I completely miss this?
If he played it seems Gillespie would have gone to the bench and players would have shifted positions

I also saw #60 on the field. But when I checked the player participation list, it was not listed. (Early in the season the player participation list for an away game, listed everyone who traveled and suited up as participating, NOT!, from that I have learned that it is NOT an accurate list anymore.) Back to #60, he angled his stance on pass plays to get a better blocking angle I guess, but all it did was tip the play to the Defense. The O line looked to me to be in disarray much of Saturday.

While you folks are reviewing the game tape, take a look at the last Elon Kick-off, I swear they had 12 people on the field. A penalty and a re-kick would have likely led to a much better field position. (Of course I might have had 12 drinks, it was that kind of game and I was seeing things, we did lose the game, right? I think I got that straight.)

(10-08-2018 07:48 AM)formerjmusprinter84 Wrote:  Has anyone seen actual video of the penalty on the punt return TD? I recorded the game and I didn't see an angle where you were able to see the infraction. I only saw the flag fly across the screen when Amos was at about the 5 yard line.

On the 2 pt conversion, I thought that Sharp should have just driven straight ahead into the two defenders (who were still briefly still in the end zone) to try and make it over the goal line. By shifting left, he lost a lot of momentum and leverage and his footing.

You can't see it because whatever happened was at least 10 yards behind the ball, and if memory serves the same official called the hands to the face penalty as well. I'm NOT saying we didn't commit either of the alleged infractions, but I will say that neither of them had anything to do with the play that was impacted.

I counted at least six instances of Elon players losing their helmets, way more than you usually see during the course of a game. I wonder if milking that had anything to do with influencing the (IMO bogus) illegal hands to the face penalty.

(10-08-2018 07:19 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  No names on the uniforms this week. Just said JMU. There was a #60 in the game. 5 game suspension means Jackson failed his second drug test. A third failed test means the athlete loses their scholarship.

I thought going for two when they were up 4 with about 7 minutes left was a bad choice by Houston. If Elon scores on their next possession, JMU likely only gets the ball one more time down 2 instead of 3. Why he did not kick the extra point was a head scratcher for me.

By the way, JMU under Houston has not been good in 4th and short situations. Maybe that is why Houston is kicking field goals. JMU had a failed 4th down in the 1st quarter on Saturday.

Bottom line is 2TDs called back due to penalties and a fumble when we were driving to ice the game kept this one from being 21 point or higher win. We simply allowed a good team to stay within striking distance and they scored a TD for the victory when they got the opportunity to do so.

Time to regroup and win our last five games. Then hope we still receive one of the top two seeds. Now we have to hope other people lose to do so.

when will coaches learn, you dont chase the point until you absolutely have to. The second two pt try was not the right call.

Hart, you missed another item that went wrong.

I got hung up in traffic from Nova, arrived an hour later than I wanted and didnt get to properly pregame.

If we wore purple or white pants instead of the dull gray on a dull green field would it have been easier to see noochs knee was not down?

Cole Johnson 1-0 vs Elon
Ben DiNucci 0-1

(10-08-2018 08:02 AM)JMU_Newbill Wrote:  I counted at least six instances of Elon players losing their helmets, way more than you usually see during the course of a game. I wonder if milking that had anything to do with influencing the (IMO bogus) illegal hands to the face penalty.

I watched the hands to the face infraction in slow motion and it looked like the push was on the side of the helmet. Daka's left arm/hand extended out and upward and pushed the side of the helmet below the ear hole. If the helmet had not flown off, not so sure it would have been called.

Some NCAA rules that might apply:
"Helmet and Face Mask Fouls
ARTICLE 8. a. No player shall continuously contact an opponent’s face,
helmet (including the face mask) or neck with hand(s) or arm(s) (Exception:
By or against the runner). [S26}
b. No player shall grasp and then twist, turn or pull the face mask, chin strap
or any helmet opening of an opponent. It is not a foul if the face mask,
chin strap or helmet opening is not grasped and then twisted, turned or
pulled. When in question, it is a foul."

"Striking Fouls and Tripping
ARTICLE 2. a. No person subject to the rules shall strike an opponent with
the knee; strike an opponent’s helmet (including the face mask), neck, face or
any other part of the body with an extended forearm, elbow, locked hands,
palm, fist, or the heel, back or side of the open hand; or gouge an opponent
(A.R. 9-1-2-I).