(10-11-2018 10:25 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  While I would love to drink this AAC kool-aid, we aren't going anywhere until our MBB program improves. The AAC doesn't want to bring in a program that will bring the conference down. We are several years away (AT BEST) from becoming possibly competitive in the CAA. Until that date occurs where we are no longer bottom feeders, the AAC is nothing more than a pipe dream.
It's already an uphill battle for us. Yes, we bring a lot to the table (facilities, winning conference/national titles in many sports), but I don't think it's enough. MBB is a huge money maker and is an incredible thorn in our side right now. That ship needs to reverse itself sooner rather than later but I just don't see that happening. I'm also not convinced that AAC believes we bring in a big market like DC to a conference.
Until then, there is ZERO chance of us going AAC. The fan in me says we have a chance, but the realist says there's no way in hell right now. I want to be wrong, but tell me what facts we have that suggest that it is more a delusional fan dream.
I do feel like FBS is only a matter of time, but the way things stand for us the AAC just isn't realistic. Joining a realigned conference is way more likely to happen than for the AAC to take us right now.

If the MBB team wins a few CAA championships and/or tournament bids and makes some noise in the postseason, then everything changes.

MEN play basketball at JMU? Color me shocked.
(g/d/r)

(sorry to all you MBB fans)

I think Bourne has a plan for JMU basketball.

Root for and support Lou Rowe while the United Center is being built. If the improvement is there, real evidence, then Lou stays (assumes he wants to stay). If not, Lou goes. Bourne can't afford more losing basketball with a new arena. Very rare appearances in the NCAA out of the weakened* CAA basketball conference, even Bourne can't spin and defend that record walking into a new $90M basketball arena.

The problem, if Lou does go, how can we replace Lou on a shoe string budget or can we go a bit higher pay scale this time around?

* Don't even try to say the absences of VCU, ODU and GMU did not weaken CAA basketball.

I hope Lou can pull it off and if not, I hope JMU is prepared this time.

(10-11-2018 03:07 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  I think Bourne has a plan for JMU basketball.

Root for and support Lou Rowe while the United Center is being built. If the improvement is there, real evidence, then Lou stays (assumes he wants to stay). If not, Lou goes. Bourne can't afford more losing basketball with a new arena. Very rare appearances in the NCAA out of the weakened* CAA basketball conference, even Bourne can't spin and defend that record walking into a new $90M basketball arena.

The problem, if Lou does go, how can we replace Lou on a shoe string budget or can we go a bit higher pay scale this time around?

* Don't even try to say the absences of VCU, ODU and GMU did not weaken CAA basketball.

I hope Lou can pull it off and if not, I hope JMU is prepared this time.

This is the reason I think Rowe goes sooner rather than later. I think we need success before the Union is built. Year one needs to be full all season, not full for the first few games and then go away when the novelty wears off.
If Rowe can turn it around this year, then he should stay. I really like the guy and want him to be incredibly successful, but we cannot afford to keep giving him more and more years to turn it around. This year there are no excuses to be massively better. If not, then we have to spend up on a guy than can turn the program around and build excitement. We just can't keep using the same failed formula and expect different results.

(10-11-2018 12:58 PM)JMU_Newbill Wrote:  

(10-11-2018 12:41 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(10-11-2018 09:42 AM)rknj8993 Wrote:  What are y'all smoking up there at JMU? Just curious. It must be pretty good stuff.

Imagine how crazy you would of thought it was 3 years ago if you were told we host two college game days in the next 3 years.

True but a JMU alum isn't the commissioner (producer) of the AAC.

You're the worst.

The only reason they came to JMU was cuz of Lee? GTFOOH. They came cuz our team was undefeated and then came back because of how amazing it was. Sure it had some influence but I'm convinced they would have still come without Lee Fitting being a producer.

I wouldn't count App State out other than the obvious market share with ECU. ECU's program hasn't been strong recently but having a good in-state rivalry is worth something. Look at the ACC. There are 4 North Carolina schools that heavily overlap.

Obviously the AAC doesn't have the history that those NC state schools have in the ACC but with how strong App's football program I don't seem them overlooking it. The strength of our FB program is our main selling point so I don't see why it can't be App's also.

(10-11-2018 08:29 PM)Anders Wrote:  I wouldn't count App State out other than the obvious market share with ECU. ECU's program hasn't been strong recently but having a good in-state rivalry is worth something. Look at the ACC. There are 4 North Carolina schools that heavily overlap.

Obviously the AAC doesn't have the history that those NC state schools have in the ACC but with how strong App's football program I don't seem them overlooking it. The strength of our FB program is our main selling point so I don't see why it can't be App's also.

You simply cannot bring in a program with a track around their football field.

(10-11-2018 08:48 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  

(10-11-2018 08:29 PM)Anders Wrote:  I wouldn't count App State out other than the obvious market share with ECU. ECU's program hasn't been strong recently but having a good in-state rivalry is worth something. Look at the ACC. There are 4 North Carolina schools that heavily overlap.

Obviously the AAC doesn't have the history that those NC state schools have in the ACC but with how strong App's football program I don't seem them overlooking it. The strength of our FB program is our main selling point so I don't see why it can't be App's also.

You simply cannot bring in a program with a track around their football field.

That's a valid point I didn't consider. If App makes improvements to their stadium down the road and can elevate their overall athletic program I think they're a potential addition with another team, depending how realignment shakes out.

JMU's overall athletic package future looks great. Women's sports are fantastic, we just need an improvement in the basketball, and baseball wouldn't hurt either.

(10-11-2018 12:10 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  

(10-11-2018 09:42 AM)rknj8993 Wrote:  What are y'all smoking up there at JMU? Just curious. It must be pretty good stuff.

I can see how an outsider visiting this board could leave thinking JMU fans are crazy.

You guys don't see what we see. A game at JMU does not feel fcs in any way. This is not a slight towards any fcs program and I know I don't see all fcs venues but I've seen enough to know JMU is different.

JMU already is fbs in every way but the fcs brand. The campus, the facilities, the tailgating, the town being taking over by purple. The new basketball arena will just add fuel to the fire.

If the ACC is on an island between P5 and G5, JMU is on an island between AAC and bottom half G5/all fcs.

JMU needs to market athletics differently. JMU should market with an obvious intent and attitude, we are here, we are awesome and we are in your face!

The AD derailing articles about how JMU would fit into the AAC to talk fcs needs to stop. The president acting like he should receive a gold star for knowing that NDSU has won multiple fcs NCs (same AD derailed article about the AAC) and stating that he checks NDSU scores each week is just sad but A for effort.

JMU has so much to offer, why hide it? Tell sports fans about JMU and tell them that JMU looks just like current AAC schools or sports fans nationwide will continue to think JMU looks just like a typical fcs school (not the Ivys, Jon Boy).

JMU has turned "fake it until you make it" into "make it and continue to fake it."

I do believe some of what is said is being coy in the media. Bourne said they would listen to the AAC. I hope and think that is code for we've had discussions with the AAC and continue to.

As fans we need to continue to push this with laser focus. It all has to start somewhere- changing the perception around JMU being viable for AAC right now. People dismiss it but as someone else said people would have dismissed a lot of what has happened at JMU over the last several years and specifically what has happened with our athletics program- Bridgeforth, Game Day, 25,000 + crowds, ESPN televised games and features, new facilities, Houston's extension, etc. etc. etc.

People tell you it can't or won't happen but when you look closer and start to put JMU into context with the AAC, with the other members, and with the other schools in G5 FBS JMU looks like an awfully good fit. Do I wear purple blinders? Sure- but others when they get past the initial reaction of JMU to AAC nah will never happen and they start to kick the tires on it more begin to recognize some things about JMU that they never knew or didn't consider or didn't realize.

This is all part of the branding effort in the court of public opinion. We are Joe fans - you think University Presidents, ADs TV execs and Conference Commissioners know more than we do and have access to even more compelling evidence? I do. You think SMU or ECU when they lose to JMU that the other member institutions at the AAC don't raise an eye brow. You think when they see JMU's campus on display during Gameday or review the TV ratings from our FCS playoff and championship games they don't take notice? You think they are blind and deaf to it all? The buzz and how great a product JMU Football has become on TV and social media? I don't. I don't think they overlook all of that because they tell themselves- nah JMU is FCS we can't have them join our conference right away- they have to prove themselves in FBS in a lower conference first.

I mentioned Northern Illinois the other day as a potential add with JMU- seems to line up with the AAC's thought around new media markets JMU (DC), Northern Illinois (Chicago). Northern Illinois as a member of the MAC once played in the Orange Bowl. I believe when the Big 12 was contemplating expansion they tried to make a presentation to join the Big 12.

To put things in perspective. Northern Illinois's stadium has a capacity of 23,595. Northern Illinois's average attendance last season was 11,291 fans. Northern Illinois's athletics budget was $25.7M. I say this not to hammer NIU- they have a solid football program- but to put into perspective how great and viable JMU is.

But Northern Illinois presents to the Big 12 and would evoke less reaction by fans and message board posters if they were considered for AAC expansion.

(10-11-2018 09:54 PM)Anders Wrote:  

(10-11-2018 08:48 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  

(10-11-2018 08:29 PM)Anders Wrote:  I wouldn't count App State out other than the obvious market share with ECU. ECU's program hasn't been strong recently but having a good in-state rivalry is worth something. Look at the ACC. There are 4 North Carolina schools that heavily overlap.

Obviously the AAC doesn't have the history that those NC state schools have in the ACC but with how strong App's football program I don't seem them overlooking it. The strength of our FB program is our main selling point so I don't see why it can't be App's also.

You simply cannot bring in a program with a track around their football field.

That's a valid point I didn't consider. If App makes improvements to their stadium down the road and can elevate their overall athletic program I think they're a potential addition with another team, depending how realignment shakes out.

JMU's overall athletic package future looks great. Women's sports are fantastic, we just need an improvement in the basketball, and baseball wouldn't hurt either.

While other G5 conferences look for regional expansion/travel partners, etc. the AAC is different- it's more spread out and I believe the TV revenue and the budgets of the schools in the league will continue to support a bigger/national footprint. Even the name alone of the conference- which in the Aresco interview they spend a fair amount of time on- tells you how they view themselves as more National than Regional. This works against App State, this works against Middle Tennessee, this works against an Ohio school barring schools like Memphis or Cincinatti leaving.

I believe this works to JMU's advantage- maybe to UMass's advantage or Northern Illinois advantage or ODU's advantage because at least they represent new markets and still fit the footprint of the league geographically- aren't complete outliers.

(10-11-2018 10:25 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  While I would love to drink this AAC kool-aid, we aren't going anywhere until our MBB program improves. The AAC doesn't want to bring in a program that will bring the conference down. We are several years away (AT BEST) from becoming possibly competitive in the CAA. Until that date occurs where we are no longer bottom feeders, the AAC is nothing more than a pipe dream.
It's already an uphill battle for us. Yes, we bring a lot to the table (facilities, winning conference/national titles in many sports), but I don't think it's enough. MBB is a huge money maker and is an incredible thorn in our side right now. That ship needs to reverse itself sooner rather than later but I just don't see that happening. I'm also not convinced that AAC believes we bring in a big market like DC to a conference.
Until then, there is ZERO chance of us going AAC. The fan in me says we have a chance, but the realist says there's no way in hell right now. I want to be wrong, but tell me what facts we have that suggest that it is more a delusional fan dream.
I do feel like FBS is only a matter of time, but the way things stand for us the AAC just isn't realistic. Joining a realigned conference is way more likely to happen than for the AAC to take us right now.

If the MBB team wins a few CAA championships and/or tournament bids and makes some noise in the postseason, then everything changes.

Men's basketball certainly would help but make no mistake football dwarfs men's basketball. Aresco said as much in the interview.

Sure the AAC considers itself a Power 7 or Power 8 league in hoops and aspires to be considered a major league with some of the members and their history (UConn, Memphis, Houston, etc.) Would JMU be in the basement of hoops in the AAC to start- ? sure- but so is ECU, USF, and up until recently so were programs like Tulane and UCF. As long as the conference can point to other Olympic sport success and weave a story about what JMU brings outside of football (and they wouldn't have trouble doing that because of how strong our overall athletics program is) I don't think the fact that our men hoops program isn't good at the moment it as big a deal as folks make it out to be.

Take a look at the Learfield Director's Cup standing the last two years and JMU ranks very favorably with the other American schools that even carried a ranking in the Director's Cup.

http://www.jmu2aac.tumblr.com

(10-11-2018 07:33 PM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  

(10-11-2018 12:58 PM)JMU_Newbill Wrote:  

(10-11-2018 12:41 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(10-11-2018 09:42 AM)rknj8993 Wrote:  What are y'all smoking up there at JMU? Just curious. It must be pretty good stuff.

Imagine how crazy you would of thought it was 3 years ago if you were told we host two college game days in the next 3 years.

True but a JMU alum isn't the commissioner (producer) of the AAC.

You're the worst.

The only reason they came to JMU was cuz of Lee? GTFOOH. They came cuz our team was undefeated and then came back because of how amazing it was. Sure it had some influence but I'm convinced they would have still come without Lee Fitting being a producer.

Where in my statement did I use the word "only"?

(10-11-2018 03:07 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  I think Bourne has a plan for JMU basketball.

Root for and support Lou Rowe while the United Center is being built. If the improvement is there, real evidence, then Lou stays (assumes he wants to stay). If not, Lou goes. Bourne can't afford more losing basketball with a new arena. Very rare appearances in the NCAA out of the weakened* CAA basketball conference, even Bourne can't spin and defend that record walking into a new $90M basketball arena.

The problem, if Lou does go, how can we replace Lou on a shoe string budget or can we go a bit higher pay scale this time around?

* Don't even try to say the absences of VCU, ODU and GMU did not weaken CAA basketball.

I hope Lou can pull it off and if not, I hope JMU is prepared this time.

The CAA was stronger with those schools at the end of their tenure in the CAA but their basketball teams are not what they use to be. VCU was a perineal sweet 16 team under Shaka. Once Larranaga left GMU became a bottom dweller. ODU fell way off once they started football and could not throw all of their resources into men’s and women’s basketball.

Historically, I believe the CAA rarely cracked the top ten conferences in RPI. BDK can fact check this. I feel like the conference usually was right outside of the top ten. I seem to remember one year where the CAA finished 8th but that was an anomaly.

The CAA fought a long time for respectability and once they got there, their top teams left to “move up”. The A10 was arguably the best conference in basketball for one year until their top schools left and went to the AAC and Big East. The same thing happened with CUSA. When the best teams left the A10 and CUSA, the A10 became only marginally better than the CAA the schools had left and CUSA became worse. In the meantime, those three schools lost some of their best rivals. VCU and GMUs basketball programs are no worse than they were in the CAA but VCUs baseball is way down. GMU got lightning in a bottle with Larranaga so I think they would be the same no matter where they played. ODU has paid the price for going to CUSA.

(10-12-2018 12:01 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(10-11-2018 10:25 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  While I would love to drink this AAC kool-aid, we aren't going anywhere until our MBB program improves. The AAC doesn't want to bring in a program that will bring the conference down. We are several years away (AT BEST) from becoming possibly competitive in the CAA. Until that date occurs where we are no longer bottom feeders, the AAC is nothing more than a pipe dream.
It's already an uphill battle for us. Yes, we bring a lot to the table (facilities, winning conference/national titles in many sports), but I don't think it's enough. MBB is a huge money maker and is an incredible thorn in our side right now. That ship needs to reverse itself sooner rather than later but I just don't see that happening. I'm also not convinced that AAC believes we bring in a big market like DC to a conference.
Until then, there is ZERO chance of us going AAC. The fan in me says we have a chance, but the realist says there's no way in hell right now. I want to be wrong, but tell me what facts we have that suggest that it is more a delusional fan dream.
I do feel like FBS is only a matter of time, but the way things stand for us the AAC just isn't realistic. Joining a realigned conference is way more likely to happen than for the AAC to take us right now.

If the MBB team wins a few CAA championships and/or tournament bids and makes some noise in the postseason, then everything changes.

Men's basketball certainly would help but make no mistake football dwarfs men's basketball. Aresco said as much in the interview.

Sure the AAC considers itself a Power 7 or Power 8 league in hoops and aspires to be considered a major league with some of the members and their history (UConn, Memphis, Houston, etc.) Would JMU be in the basement of hoops in the AAC to start- ? sure- but so is ECU, USF, and up until recently so were programs like Tulane and UCF. As long as the conference can point to other Olympic sport success and weave a story about what JMU brings outside of football (and they wouldn't have trouble doing that because of how strong our overall athletics program is) I don't think the fact that our men hoops program isn't good at the moment it as big a deal as folks make it out to be.

Take a look at the Learfield Director's Cup standing the last two years and JMU ranks very favorably with the other American schools that even carried a ranking in the Director's Cup.

http://www.jmu2aac.tumblr.com

This. JMU fits the eastern footprint of the AAC very nicely. Some of you seem to feel the AAC is above JMU. I think JMU football is perfect for that conference. We likely don’t win the league title in football but we sure would be competitive in it. For basketball, we are not a threat to beat the best programs but with the new arena and talent Rowe has brought in, I see us right in the middle of that league by next season which is when we would start play there.

If the offer ever came, I would hope JMU will say yes. I also hope they are actively selling the program to that conference frequently.

(10-12-2018 08:41 AM)hburg Wrote:  If the offer ever came, I would hope JMU will say yes. I also hope they are actively selling the program to that conference frequently.

JMU would say yes. Would take exactly a half second.

The problem is that the AAC is not expanding any time soon. Their TV contract comes up for renewal in the '19-'20 school year time frame so they will be negotiating with the networks in 2019. I read earlier this week from Matt Sarzyniak that he feels the AAC will be in position for increases to their TV revenue package. This reinforces their position with their current configuration (11 + Wichita State for MBB and Navy for FB).

The AAC really has zero incentive to expand beyond where they are now. I don't see UConn leaving. JMU isn't going to the AAC because nobody is going to the AAC...at least likely for a very long while. In fact, I don't see any changes to conference affiliation at the high levels (P5 + AAC) in any legit crystal ball. 8 years from now, things might change as 2026 is a key year as far as FB playoffs and its model, but even then I don't see anything changing.

For those of you crying about not being FBS, just know that today, the State of Virginia's official channels are offering deep discounts to state employees to come to UVA football games.

They're at a point where their football marketing is borderline pathetic. This is an ACC school and they're having to beg people to show up.

(10-12-2018 09:10 AM)Potomac Wrote:  For those of you crying about not being FBS, just know that today, the State of Virginia's official channels are offering deep discounts to state employees to come to UVA football games.

They're at a point where their football marketing is borderline pathetic. This is an ACC school and they're having to beg people to show up.

I always appreciate the opportunity to take a shot at them. To be fair, attendance at CFB has been on the decline for years. While the Hokies made an excellent show (especially pregame) for national TV last Saturday night at home against Notre Dame, I found it interesting to observe the overhead blimp video shown several times during the game which showed plenty of open seats in the upper sideline sections. In other words, even a game as big as the Vatican coming to Blacksburg didn't pack completely as you would expect.

Alabama has had a controversy this season involving their student sections not being full. Same happened at Georgia last year. So, it isn't just happening at the UVa's of the world. AD's are having to rethink the old models and determine what will get more young people (especially students but including young alumni) interested in giving up several hours of their Saturdays....or, weeknights in growing number of cases.

More and more students across the nation are being quoted as saying they'd prefer sitting at their apartment or fraternity house with friends, drinking up, and watching the games on TV/streaming while having easy access to food, cell service, etc.

(10-11-2018 08:48 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  

(10-11-2018 08:29 PM)Anders Wrote:  I wouldn't count App State out other than the obvious market share with ECU. ECU's program hasn't been strong recently but having a good in-state rivalry is worth something. Look at the ACC. There are 4 North Carolina schools that heavily overlap.

Obviously the AAC doesn't have the history that those NC state schools have in the ACC but with how strong App's football program I don't seem them overlooking it. The strength of our FB program is our main selling point so I don't see why it can't be App's also.

You simply cannot bring in a program with a track around their football field.

1. When you live deep in the mountains of North Carolina, it's not easy to just find acres of flat land to build another track. That would require tons of dynamite and mountain destruction, which is why it hasn't been as easy as, "Well, let's just do it," for quite some time now.

2. The track is being removed. Yes, it has always been a bit of an eye sore, but there has to be some equity in the process when it comes to athletics. The track will be removed in the coming years, as the university just received approval to build a new track amongst the new campus, now dubbed Appalachian 105. See more on that development here: https://www.wataugademocrat.com/news/app...9fca0.html

3. A track will never make or break a school from having the shot at moving up. If that was so, we wouldn't be where we are now. When App is being touted for top 25 rankings around the nation, the first thing that pops up against us isn't our track, so that's just an excuse as to why you think we don't belong any further up. Listen, I've heard and seen the delusions of grandeur here, but that doesn't mean I'm going to knock you all as I have seen many JMU fans knock App and literally any other school that could be deemed as competition. Y'all do y'all and we'll do us. We're doing just fine up here if you haven't noticed.

(10-12-2018 01:23 PM)rknj8993 Wrote:  3. A track will never make or break a school from having the shot at moving up.

(10-11-2018 10:03 AM)orange-to-purple Wrote:  2Buck writes "I’m not concerned about those schools because if we ever did make it directly to the AAC, they sure as heck wouldn’t still be there."

How do you make THAT leap? Ain't none of them going anyplace any time soon.