And Boca-- I don't actually think this is how you operate but understand that in this thread you're coming off as the type of guy that would use "niggardly" because he can and "look it up in the dictionary!!" It's not cute or funny.

There are people who think they should be able to say anything they want without consequence even when it is clearly offensive to whomever. Free speech includes the consequences of that speech.

(10-09-2018 03:30 PM)axeme Wrote:  There are people who think they should be able to say anything they want without consequence even when it is clearly offensive to whomever. Free speech includes the consequences of that speech.

I guess the Flintstone's Theme Song is problematic.
Since when you're with the Flintstones you'll have a gay old time.
Obviously offensive to senior LGBT community members.

A "Golden Flash" must refer to exposing yourself and urinating on someone.
Victims of flashers are primarily women. The team name is an affront to all women and should be changed immediately.

(10-10-2018 10:31 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(10-09-2018 03:30 PM)axeme Wrote:  There are people who think they should be able to say anything they want without consequence even when it is clearly offensive to whomever. Free speech includes the consequences of that speech.

I guess the Flintstone's Theme Song is problematic.
Since when you're with the Flintstones you'll have a gay old time.
Obviously offensive to senior LGBT community members.

A "Golden Flash" must refer to exposing yourself and urinating on someone.
Victims of flashers are primarily women. The team name is an affront to all women and should be changed immediately.

See my post above. You are being intentionally obtuse because you hate liberals, and I'm starting to be convinced that you're mad you can't just use offensive speech like the good old days.

(10-10-2018 04:27 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 10:31 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(10-09-2018 03:30 PM)axeme Wrote:  There are people who think they should be able to say anything they want without consequence even when it is clearly offensive to whomever. Free speech includes the consequences of that speech.

I guess the Flintstone's Theme Song is problematic.
Since when you're with the Flintstones you'll have a gay old time.
Obviously offensive to senior LGBT community members.

A "Golden Flash" must refer to exposing yourself and urinating on someone.
Victims of flashers are primarily women. The team name is an affront to all women and should be changed immediately.

See my post above. You are being intentionally obtuse because you hate liberals, and I'm starting to be convinced that you're mad you can't just use offensive speech like the good old days.

I think most of America is realizing the true nature of the left. Believe me I am for free speech, even that I disagree with. The left doesn't want diversity of ideas, they label it a euphemism for White Supremacy to be able to stop free thought. Btw, I find you churlish. Please take offense. Now back on topic- MAC Talk: Coach Whipple expressing his emotional anger probably could have been done better. Not a huge deal. A University statement, meeting with the HC, and an apology should have been enough in this situation.

(10-10-2018 05:27 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 04:27 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 10:31 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(10-09-2018 03:30 PM)axeme Wrote:  There are people who think they should be able to say anything they want without consequence even when it is clearly offensive to whomever. Free speech includes the consequences of that speech.

I guess the Flintstone's Theme Song is problematic.
Since when you're with the Flintstones you'll have a gay old time.
Obviously offensive to senior LGBT community members.

A "Golden Flash" must refer to exposing yourself and urinating on someone.
Victims of flashers are primarily women. The team name is an affront to all women and should be changed immediately.

See my post above. You are being intentionally obtuse because you hate liberals, and I'm starting to be convinced that you're mad you can't just use offensive speech like the good old days.

I think most of America is realizing the true nature of the left. Believe me I am for free speech, even that I disagree with. The left doesn't want diversity of ideas, they label it a euphemism for White Supremacy to be able to stop free thought. Btw, I find you churlish. Please take offense. Now back on topic- MAC Talk: Coach Whipple expressing his emotional anger probably could done better. Not a huge deal. A University statement, meeting with the HC, and an apology should have been enough in this situation.

I don't even disagree with that second part as I said earlier.

Free speech is awesome and part of what makes this country great-- but unless people are trying to get Mark Whipple arrested that's not what is at stake here. Few on the left are actually that strident unless you hang out on tumblr and twitter.

If thinking you should err on the side of not comparing things to rape makes me "churlish" then so be it. Words change and evolve. At a time when a lot of sexual assault victims are going back through that history (and that is true whether you like it or not) I don't think it is too much to ask to not use the word frivolously.

Edit: Serious question: What is to be "gained" by using the word in this type of context? There are equally descriptive words. I honestly want to know why you want to use words that some think are offensive instead of just not pissing people off. Something legitimate please, not just "**** the left".

(10-10-2018 07:50 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 05:27 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 04:27 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 10:31 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(10-09-2018 03:30 PM)axeme Wrote:  There are people who think they should be able to say anything they want without consequence even when it is clearly offensive to whomever. Free speech includes the consequences of that speech.

I guess the Flintstone's Theme Song is problematic.
Since when you're with the Flintstones you'll have a gay old time.
Obviously offensive to senior LGBT community members.

A "Golden Flash" must refer to exposing yourself and urinating on someone.
Victims of flashers are primarily women. The team name is an affront to all women and should be changed immediately.

See my post above. You are being intentionally obtuse because you hate liberals, and I'm starting to be convinced that you're mad you can't just use offensive speech like the good old days.

I think most of America is realizing the true nature of the left. Believe me I am for free speech, even that I disagree with. The left doesn't want diversity of ideas, they label it a euphemism for White Supremacy to be able to stop free thought. Btw, I find you churlish. Please take offense. Now back on topic- MAC Talk: Coach Whipple expressing his emotional anger probably could done better. Not a huge deal. A University statement, meeting with the HC, and an apology should have been enough in this situation.

I don't even disagree with that second part as I said earlier.

Free speech is awesome and part of what makes this country great-- but unless people are trying to get Mark Whipple arrested that's not what is at stake here. Few on the left are actually that strident unless you hang out on tumblr and twitter.

If thinking you should err on the side of not comparing things to rape makes me "churlish" then so be it. Words change and evolve. At a time when a lot of sexual assault victims are going back through that history (and that is true whether you like it or not) I don't think it is too much to ask to not use the word frivolously.

Edit: Serious question: What is to be "gained" by using the word in this type of context? There are equally descriptive words. I honestly want to know why you want to use words that some think are offensive instead of just not pissing people off. Something legitimate please, not just "**** the left".

Btw, 1 in 6 reported sexual assaults are boys, 1 in 25 males. Just thought I'd bring that up because in 2nd grade, a friend and I were riding bikes and were attacked by a gang of teenagers. I fought and because of that, one of them attempted to poke out my eyes with a sharp stick. I still have the scar. My friend didn't resist had his clothes pulled off... Then a woman ran out of a nearby house and screamed she had called the police. The gang of about 5 or 6 took off in different directions.. An Officer showed up and took down what had transpired. The nice lady called our parents. I have few nice stores regarding experiences of friends.

One of the problems is the politicization of words and their usage. Words are adopted by political movements. They try to define what is correct usage and who is allowed to use it. Sometimes there is even infighting over correctness.
Survivor and victim in terms of sexual assault are being fought over now. While survivor was adopted to portray heroism, the dropping of victim has lessened some of the criminality of acts according to some of the Women's Movement.

(10-10-2018 09:13 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 07:50 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 05:27 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 04:27 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 10:31 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  I guess the Flintstone's Theme Song is problematic.
Since when you're with the Flintstones you'll have a gay old time.
Obviously offensive to senior LGBT community members.

A "Golden Flash" must refer to exposing yourself and urinating on someone.
Victims of flashers are primarily women. The team name is an affront to all women and should be changed immediately.

See my post above. You are being intentionally obtuse because you hate liberals, and I'm starting to be convinced that you're mad you can't just use offensive speech like the good old days.

I think most of America is realizing the true nature of the left. Believe me I am for free speech, even that I disagree with. The left doesn't want diversity of ideas, they label it a euphemism for White Supremacy to be able to stop free thought. Btw, I find you churlish. Please take offense. Now back on topic- MAC Talk: Coach Whipple expressing his emotional anger probably could done better. Not a huge deal. A University statement, meeting with the HC, and an apology should have been enough in this situation.

I don't even disagree with that second part as I said earlier.

Free speech is awesome and part of what makes this country great-- but unless people are trying to get Mark Whipple arrested that's not what is at stake here. Few on the left are actually that strident unless you hang out on tumblr and twitter.

If thinking you should err on the side of not comparing things to rape makes me "churlish" then so be it. Words change and evolve. At a time when a lot of sexual assault victims are going back through that history (and that is true whether you like it or not) I don't think it is too much to ask to not use the word frivolously.

Edit: Serious question: What is to be "gained" by using the word in this type of context? There are equally descriptive words. I honestly want to know why you want to use words that some think are offensive instead of just not pissing people off. Something legitimate please, not just "**** the left".

Btw, 1 in 6 reported sexual assaults are boys, 1 in 25 males. Just thought I'd bring that up because in 2nd grade, a friend and I were riding bikes and were attacked by a gang of teenagers. I fought and because of that, one of them attempted to poke out my eyes with a sharp stick. I still have the scar. My friend didn't resist had his clothes pulled off... Then a woman ran out of a nearby house and screamed she had called the police. The gang of about 5 or 6 took off in different directions.. An Officer showed up and took down what had transpired. The nice lady called our parents. I have few nice stores regarding experiences of friends.

One of the problems is the politicization of words and their usage. Words are adopted by political movements. They try to define what is correct usage and who is allowed to use it. Sometimes there is even infighting over correctness.
Survivor and victim in terms of sexual assault are being fought over now. While survivor was adopted to portray heroism, the dropping of victim has lessened some of the criminality of acts according to some of the Women's Movement.

I will not and have not downplayed the impact of assault on males. Not saying it doesn't happen, but I'm not going to do it.

Amen Rocket, amen.

(10-10-2018 09:13 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 07:50 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 05:27 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 04:27 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 10:31 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  I guess the Flintstone's Theme Song is problematic.
Since when you're with the Flintstones you'll have a gay old time.
Obviously offensive to senior LGBT community members.

A "Golden Flash" must refer to exposing yourself and urinating on someone.
Victims of flashers are primarily women. The team name is an affront to all women and should be changed immediately.

See my post above. You are being intentionally obtuse because you hate liberals, and I'm starting to be convinced that you're mad you can't just use offensive speech like the good old days.

I think most of America is realizing the true nature of the left. Believe me I am for free speech, even that I disagree with. The left doesn't want diversity of ideas, they label it a euphemism for White Supremacy to be able to stop free thought. Btw, I find you churlish. Please take offense. Now back on topic- MAC Talk: Coach Whipple expressing his emotional anger probably could done better. Not a huge deal. A University statement, meeting with the HC, and an apology should have been enough in this situation.

I don't even disagree with that second part as I said earlier.

Free speech is awesome and part of what makes this country great-- but unless people are trying to get Mark Whipple arrested that's not what is at stake here. Few on the left are actually that strident unless you hang out on tumblr and twitter.

If thinking you should err on the side of not comparing things to rape makes me "churlish" then so be it. Words change and evolve. At a time when a lot of sexual assault victims are going back through that history (and that is true whether you like it or not) I don't think it is too much to ask to not use the word frivolously.

Edit: Serious question: What is to be "gained" by using the word in this type of context? There are equally descriptive words. I honestly want to know why you want to use words that some think are offensive instead of just not pissing people off. Something legitimate please, not just "**** the left".

Btw, 1 in 6 reported sexual assaults are boys, 1 in 25 males. Just thought I'd bring that up because in 2nd grade, a friend and I were riding bikes and were attacked by a gang of teenagers. I fought and because of that, one of them attempted to poke out my eyes with a sharp stick. I still have the scar. My friend didn't resist had his clothes pulled off... Then a woman ran out of a nearby house and screamed she had called the police. The gang of about 5 or 6 took off in different directions.. An Officer showed up and took down what had transpired. The nice lady called our parents. I have few nice stores regarding experiences of friends.

One of the problems is the politicization of words and their usage. Words are adopted by political movements. They try to define what is correct usage and who is allowed to use it. Sometimes there is even infighting over correctness.
Survivor and victim in terms of sexual assault are being fought over now. While survivor was adopted to portray heroism, the dropping of victim has lessened some of the criminality of acts according to some of the Women's Movement.

the statistics I've read are for every 3 females assaulted 2 boys are victims and it's 1 in 6 males overall. when race is involved it gets even tougher. you shared a personal story and I had a friend who was raped at knifepoint by a landlord of an apartment building 3 blocks from UT-we used to all cut through it as a shortcut. another friend (who was faster) was a witness and we convinced them to report it to the police, but the child victim was black and the rapist was wealthy and white. they took statements and despite an eyewitness and physical evidence declined to even open a formal investigation. he was never the same again. our politics tend to grow from our experiences.

and (probably unwelcome) advice for (more or less) right wing people. when you write criticisms about "the left" they are almost always straight jibberish. kind of like when someone who has never played football screams about the play calling. yeah, it sounds good for a second to some people in the crowd but to someone who really knows the game it's just irritating and silly. if you really want to know what the other half thinks actually talk to them and listen to what they say.

honestly, the left is just a label that we've thrown a box around to corral a lot of perspectives. myself and many people i know have beliefs that will resonate with many on "the left" but strong criticisms of other "liberal or left" politics". i used to have a good friend who was a republican small business owner and also a black nationalist muslim, a white artist one with a biracial child who is as left as you can go on social issues and solidly moderate republican on economics. i know gay people who are strong critics of capitalism but have no interest in LGBT politics. Others who have no interest in 90% of the political correctness of language but will punch you in the nose if you cross the line on the other 10%. we obviously aren't gonna solve this here, but starting a debate with the understanding that most people-regardless of politics- are imperfect but half decent human beings trying to get by like the rest of us and not deranged lunatics would help.

(10-16-2018 02:15 AM)pono Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 09:13 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 07:50 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 05:27 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 04:27 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  See my post above. You are being intentionally obtuse because you hate liberals, and I'm starting to be convinced that you're mad you can't just use offensive speech like the good old days.

I think most of America is realizing the true nature of the left. Believe me I am for free speech, even that I disagree with. The left doesn't want diversity of ideas, they label it a euphemism for White Supremacy to be able to stop free thought. Btw, I find you churlish. Please take offense. Now back on topic- MAC Talk: Coach Whipple expressing his emotional anger probably could done better. Not a huge deal. A University statement, meeting with the HC, and an apology should have been enough in this situation.

I don't even disagree with that second part as I said earlier.

Free speech is awesome and part of what makes this country great-- but unless people are trying to get Mark Whipple arrested that's not what is at stake here. Few on the left are actually that strident unless you hang out on tumblr and twitter.

If thinking you should err on the side of not comparing things to rape makes me "churlish" then so be it. Words change and evolve. At a time when a lot of sexual assault victims are going back through that history (and that is true whether you like it or not) I don't think it is too much to ask to not use the word frivolously.

Edit: Serious question: What is to be "gained" by using the word in this type of context? There are equally descriptive words. I honestly want to know why you want to use words that some think are offensive instead of just not pissing people off. Something legitimate please, not just "**** the left".

Btw, 1 in 6 reported sexual assaults are boys, 1 in 25 males. Just thought I'd bring that up because in 2nd grade, a friend and I were riding bikes and were attacked by a gang of teenagers. I fought and because of that, one of them attempted to poke out my eyes with a sharp stick. I still have the scar. My friend didn't resist had his clothes pulled off... Then a woman ran out of a nearby house and screamed she had called the police. The gang of about 5 or 6 took off in different directions.. An Officer showed up and took down what had transpired. The nice lady called our parents. I have few nice stores regarding experiences of friends.

One of the problems is the politicization of words and their usage. Words are adopted by political movements. They try to define what is correct usage and who is allowed to use it. Sometimes there is even infighting over correctness.
Survivor and victim in terms of sexual assault are being fought over now. While survivor was adopted to portray heroism, the dropping of victim has lessened some of the criminality of acts according to some of the Women's Movement.

the statistics I've read are for every 3 females assaulted 2 boys are victims and it's 1 in 6 males overall. when race is involved it gets even tougher. you shared a personal story and I had a friend who was raped at knifepoint by a landlord of an apartment building 3 blocks from UT-we used to all cut through it as a shortcut. another friend (who was faster) was a witness and we convinced them to report it to the police, but the child victim was black and the rapist was wealthy and white. they took statements and despite an eyewitness and physical evidence declined to even open a formal investigation. he was never the same again. our politics tend to grow from our experiences.

and (probably unwelcome) advice for (more or less) right wing people. when you write criticisms about "the left" they are almost always straight jibberish. kind of like when someone who has never played football screams about the play calling. yeah, it sounds good for a second to some people in the crowd but to someone who really knows the game it's just irritating and silly. if you really want to know what the other half thinks actually talk to them and listen to what they say.

honestly, the left is just a label that we've thrown a box around to corral a lot of perspectives. myself and many people i know have beliefs that will resonate with many on "the left" but strong criticisms of other "liberal or left" politics". i used to have a good friend who was a republican small business owner and also a black nationalist muslim, a white artist one with a biracial child who is as left as you can go on social issues and solidly moderate republican on economics. i know gay people who are strong critics of capitalism but have no interest in LGBT politics. Others who have no interest in 90% of the political correctness of language but will punch you in the nose if you cross the line on the other 10%. we obviously aren't gonna solve this here, but starting a debate with the understanding that most people-regardless of politics- are imperfect but half decent human beings trying to get by like the rest of us and not deranged lunatics would help.

+100

(10-17-2018 01:31 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(10-16-2018 02:15 AM)pono Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 09:13 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 07:50 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 05:27 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  I think most of America is realizing the true nature of the left. Believe me I am for free speech, even that I disagree with. The left doesn't want diversity of ideas, they label it a euphemism for White Supremacy to be able to stop free thought. Btw, I find you churlish. Please take offense. Now back on topic- MAC Talk: Coach Whipple expressing his emotional anger probably could done better. Not a huge deal. A University statement, meeting with the HC, and an apology should have been enough in this situation.

I don't even disagree with that second part as I said earlier.

Free speech is awesome and part of what makes this country great-- but unless people are trying to get Mark Whipple arrested that's not what is at stake here. Few on the left are actually that strident unless you hang out on tumblr and twitter.

If thinking you should err on the side of not comparing things to rape makes me "churlish" then so be it. Words change and evolve. At a time when a lot of sexual assault victims are going back through that history (and that is true whether you like it or not) I don't think it is too much to ask to not use the word frivolously.

Edit: Serious question: What is to be "gained" by using the word in this type of context? There are equally descriptive words. I honestly want to know why you want to use words that some think are offensive instead of just not pissing people off. Something legitimate please, not just "**** the left".

Btw, 1 in 6 reported sexual assaults are boys, 1 in 25 males. Just thought I'd bring that up because in 2nd grade, a friend and I were riding bikes and were attacked by a gang of teenagers. I fought and because of that, one of them attempted to poke out my eyes with a sharp stick. I still have the scar. My friend didn't resist had his clothes pulled off... Then a woman ran out of a nearby house and screamed she had called the police. The gang of about 5 or 6 took off in different directions.. An Officer showed up and took down what had transpired. The nice lady called our parents. I have few nice stores regarding experiences of friends.

One of the problems is the politicization of words and their usage. Words are adopted by political movements. They try to define what is correct usage and who is allowed to use it. Sometimes there is even infighting over correctness.
Survivor and victim in terms of sexual assault are being fought over now. While survivor was adopted to portray heroism, the dropping of victim has lessened some of the criminality of acts according to some of the Women's Movement.

the statistics I've read are for every 3 females assaulted 2 boys are victims and it's 1 in 6 males overall. when race is involved it gets even tougher. you shared a personal story and I had a friend who was raped at knifepoint by a landlord of an apartment building 3 blocks from UT-we used to all cut through it as a shortcut. another friend (who was faster) was a witness and we convinced them to report it to the police, but the child victim was black and the rapist was wealthy and white. they took statements and despite an eyewitness and physical evidence declined to even open a formal investigation. he was never the same again. our politics tend to grow from our experiences.

and (probably unwelcome) advice for (more or less) right wing people. when you write criticisms about "the left" they are almost always straight jibberish. kind of like when someone who has never played football screams about the play calling. yeah, it sounds good for a second to some people in the crowd but to someone who really knows the game it's just irritating and silly. if you really want to know what the other half thinks actually talk to them and listen to what they say.

honestly, the left is just a label that we've thrown a box around to corral a lot of perspectives. myself and many people i know have beliefs that will resonate with many on "the left" but strong criticisms of other "liberal or left" politics". i used to have a good friend who was a republican small business owner and also a black nationalist muslim, a white artist one with a biracial child who is as left as you can go on social issues and solidly moderate republican on economics. i know gay people who are strong critics of capitalism but have no interest in LGBT politics. Others who have no interest in 90% of the political correctness of language but will punch you in the nose if you cross the line on the other 10%. we obviously aren't gonna solve this here, but starting a debate with the understanding that most people-regardless of politics- are imperfect but half decent human beings trying to get by like the rest of us and not deranged lunatics would help.

+100

I go along with Milton Friedman's ideas from "Free to Choose" regarding Equality of Outcome vs Equality of Opportunity. To me the Left is all about Equality of Outcome.

Labels, I had a friend who was in a relationship and living together with the same girl for a couple of years. One day I asked him, "How is your girl friend doing?" He quickly responded that he was not into labels. That probably had something to do with the fact that he wasn't faithful to her. So although my label of girl friend was pretty much right on the money, the guy didn't like it because the label "girl friend" caused him some dissonance.

(10-18-2018 08:11 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(10-17-2018 01:31 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(10-16-2018 02:15 AM)pono Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 09:13 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(10-10-2018 07:50 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  I don't even disagree with that second part as I said earlier.

Free speech is awesome and part of what makes this country great-- but unless people are trying to get Mark Whipple arrested that's not what is at stake here. Few on the left are actually that strident unless you hang out on tumblr and twitter.

If thinking you should err on the side of not comparing things to rape makes me "churlish" then so be it. Words change and evolve. At a time when a lot of sexual assault victims are going back through that history (and that is true whether you like it or not) I don't think it is too much to ask to not use the word frivolously.

Edit: Serious question: What is to be "gained" by using the word in this type of context? There are equally descriptive words. I honestly want to know why you want to use words that some think are offensive instead of just not pissing people off. Something legitimate please, not just "**** the left".

Btw, 1 in 6 reported sexual assaults are boys, 1 in 25 males. Just thought I'd bring that up because in 2nd grade, a friend and I were riding bikes and were attacked by a gang of teenagers. I fought and because of that, one of them attempted to poke out my eyes with a sharp stick. I still have the scar. My friend didn't resist had his clothes pulled off... Then a woman ran out of a nearby house and screamed she had called the police. The gang of about 5 or 6 took off in different directions.. An Officer showed up and took down what had transpired. The nice lady called our parents. I have few nice stores regarding experiences of friends.

One of the problems is the politicization of words and their usage. Words are adopted by political movements. They try to define what is correct usage and who is allowed to use it. Sometimes there is even infighting over correctness.
Survivor and victim in terms of sexual assault are being fought over now. While survivor was adopted to portray heroism, the dropping of victim has lessened some of the criminality of acts according to some of the Women's Movement.

the statistics I've read are for every 3 females assaulted 2 boys are victims and it's 1 in 6 males overall. when race is involved it gets even tougher. you shared a personal story and I had a friend who was raped at knifepoint by a landlord of an apartment building 3 blocks from UT-we used to all cut through it as a shortcut. another friend (who was faster) was a witness and we convinced them to report it to the police, but the child victim was black and the rapist was wealthy and white. they took statements and despite an eyewitness and physical evidence declined to even open a formal investigation. he was never the same again. our politics tend to grow from our experiences.

and (probably unwelcome) advice for (more or less) right wing people. when you write criticisms about "the left" they are almost always straight jibberish. kind of like when someone who has never played football screams about the play calling. yeah, it sounds good for a second to some people in the crowd but to someone who really knows the game it's just irritating and silly. if you really want to know what the other half thinks actually talk to them and listen to what they say.

honestly, the left is just a label that we've thrown a box around to corral a lot of perspectives. myself and many people i know have beliefs that will resonate with many on "the left" but strong criticisms of other "liberal or left" politics". i used to have a good friend who was a republican small business owner and also a black nationalist muslim, a white artist one with a biracial child who is as left as you can go on social issues and solidly moderate republican on economics. i know gay people who are strong critics of capitalism but have no interest in LGBT politics. Others who have no interest in 90% of the political correctness of language but will punch you in the nose if you cross the line on the other 10%. we obviously aren't gonna solve this here, but starting a debate with the understanding that most people-regardless of politics- are imperfect but half decent human beings trying to get by like the rest of us and not deranged lunatics would help.

+100

I go along with Milton Friedman's ideas from "Free to Choose" regarding Equality of Outcome vs Equality of Opportunity. To me the Left is all about Equality of Outcome.

Labels, I had a friend who was in a relationship and living together with the same girl for a couple of years. One day I asked him, "How is your girl friend doing?" He quickly responded that he was not into labels. That probably had something to do with the fact that he wasn't faithful to her. So although my label of girl friend was pretty much right on the money, the guy didn't like it because the label "girl friend" caused him some dissonance.

No I think the left understands that equal opportunity isn't there no matter how often the right claims it is.