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cmett003 Online
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G5 AD Ranks
Interesting article on the competitiveness of G5 athletic directiors. All im gonna say is if WS didn't come into a good situation with football at the start or basketball in 2010 and 2011, he would be ranked near the very bottom.

Ariticle link: https://forgotten5.com/2018/10/01/evalua...directors/

Spreadsheet breakdown: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...1167600032
10-01-2018 12:12 PM
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Monarchblue Online
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RE: G5 AD Ranks
What stands out to me.

1. Woody has the 3rd hightest salary while our coaches are middling at best
2. ODU hast the 5th highest Budget. The results do not come close to matching.
10-01-2018 12:57 PM
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monarx Online
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RE: G5 AD Ranks
Sounds like maybe we need to pay our main 3 coaches more, our AD less and put more money into the main revenue generating sports people care about.
10-01-2018 01:23 PM
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odu09 Online
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RE: G5 AD Ranks
Isn't Woody in the middle of a record breaking fundraiser? He seems to be just fine at what he does. The problem is ODU has too many sports for a 'mid major' and that's why we have such a huge budget. Not that I'm suggesting cutting sports... but we are spending as if we are in a bigger and more successful conference than we are in... but we have money...?
10-01-2018 01:26 PM
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RE: G5 AD Ranks
(10-01-2018 01:23 PM)monarx Wrote:  Sounds like maybe we need to pay our main 3 coaches more, our AD less and put more money into the main revenue generating sports people care about.

Seems like those suggestions would be obvious.
10-01-2018 01:26 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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RE: G5 AD Ranks
(10-01-2018 12:57 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  What stands out to me.

1. Woody has the 3rd hightest salary while our coaches are middling at best
2. ODU hast the 5th highest Budget. The results do not come close to matching.

The first point is probably a product of Selig coming over from a similarly situated FBS athletic department in WKU. Wilder was an assistant at an FCS school and hasn't gotten any big bumps in salary because usually they come as a result of being pursued by other schools. Ditto JJ, who came from a smaller program. You can lowball low-major coaches and assistants much more effectively than you can people making a lateral move.

As for the second point: ODU has more sports than the other CUSA schools, plus I'm going to guess that a dollar goes further in southern Mississippi or northern Louisiana than Tidewater, so that explains some of it too (it's also an argument I've had with A-10 fans who don't understand why Fordham isn't much more successful with one of the highest basketball budgets in the league, forgetting that Fordham is in the Bronx and not Plattsburgh).

Plus, how are we defining "results"? If the expectation is that a higher athletic budget buys wins and postseasons in football and basketball, maybe. But no AD worth their salt is going to define down their mission to just that. Intercollegiate athletics serves a function for the university, and that includes the non-rev sports. If ODU athletics is providing athletes opportunities at education and graduating them at high levels while adding to the diversity (lifestyle, not demographics, though it holds there too) of the academic experience, then one can make the case that they're successful even if they're not going to prominent bowls and making regular NCAA tournament runs.
10-01-2018 01:28 PM
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Monarchblue Online
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RE: G5 AD Ranks
(10-01-2018 01:26 PM)odu09 Wrote:  Isn't Woody in the middle of a record breaking fundraiser? He seems to be just fine at what he does. The problem is ODU has too many sports for a 'mid major' and that's why we have such a huge budget. Not that I'm suggesting cutting sports... but we are spending as if we are in a bigger and more successful conference than we are in... but we have money...?

Woody does great at fundraising, but that is only one part of his job. He sucks at the others. Unfortunately those $$$ are all some folks care about. This is why those who say if we want changes we should donate more. As long as the money keeps coming in, they will continue to evaluate the sports programs as successful.
10-01-2018 01:29 PM
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RE: G5 AD Ranks
(10-01-2018 01:28 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 12:57 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  What stands out to me.

1. Woody has the 3rd hightest salary while our coaches are middling at best
2. ODU hast the 5th highest Budget. The results do not come close to matching.

The first point is probably a product of Selig coming over from a similarly situated FBS athletic department in WKU. Wilder was an assistant at an FCS school and hasn't gotten any big bumps in salary because usually they come as a result of being pursued by other schools. Ditto JJ, who came from a smaller program. You can lowball low-major coaches and assistants much more effectively than you can people making a lateral move.

As for the second point: ODU has more sports than the other CUSA schools, plus I'm going to guess that a dollar goes further in southern Mississippi or northern Louisiana than Tidewater, so that explains some of it too (it's also an argument I've had with A-10 fans who don't understand why Fordham isn't much more successful with one of the highest basketball budgets in the league, forgetting that Fordham is in the Bronx and not Plattsburgh).

Plus, how are we defining "results"? If the expectation is that a higher athletic budget buys wins and postseasons in football and basketball, maybe. But no AD worth their salt is going to define down their mission to just that. Intercollegiate athletics serves a function for the university, and that includes the non-rev sports. If ODU athletics is providing athletes opportunities at education and graduating them at high levels while adding to the diversity (lifestyle, not demographics, though it holds there too) of the academic experience, then one can make the case that they're successful even if they're not going to prominent bowls and making regular NCAA tournament runs.

Or you can Aim High and not hire coaches that have low market value.
10-01-2018 01:30 PM
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odu09 Online
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RE: G5 AD Ranks
(10-01-2018 01:29 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 01:26 PM)odu09 Wrote:  Isn't Woody in the middle of a record breaking fundraiser? He seems to be just fine at what he does. The problem is ODU has too many sports for a 'mid major' and that's why we have such a huge budget. Not that I'm suggesting cutting sports... but we are spending as if we are in a bigger and more successful conference than we are in... but we have money...?

Woody does great at fundraising, but that is only one part of his job. He sucks at the others. Unfortunately those $$$ are all some folks care about. This is why those who say if we want changes we should donate more. As long as the money keeps coming in, they will continue to evaluate the sports programs as successful.

Which sports is ODU bad at besides football? Say what you want about basketball, we still finish top 4.
10-01-2018 01:40 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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RE: G5 AD Ranks
(10-01-2018 01:30 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 01:28 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 12:57 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  What stands out to me.

1. Woody has the 3rd hightest salary while our coaches are middling at best
2. ODU hast the 5th highest Budget. The results do not come close to matching.

The first point is probably a product of Selig coming over from a similarly situated FBS athletic department in WKU. Wilder was an assistant at an FCS school and hasn't gotten any big bumps in salary because usually they come as a result of being pursued by other schools. Ditto JJ, who came from a smaller program. You can lowball low-major coaches and assistants much more effectively than you can people making a lateral move.

As for the second point: ODU has more sports than the other CUSA schools, plus I'm going to guess that a dollar goes further in southern Mississippi or northern Louisiana than Tidewater, so that explains some of it too (it's also an argument I've had with A-10 fans who don't understand why Fordham isn't much more successful with one of the highest basketball budgets in the league, forgetting that Fordham is in the Bronx and not Plattsburgh).

Plus, how are we defining "results"? If the expectation is that a higher athletic budget buys wins and postseasons in football and basketball, maybe. But no AD worth their salt is going to define down their mission to just that. Intercollegiate athletics serves a function for the university, and that includes the non-rev sports. If ODU athletics is providing athletes opportunities at education and graduating them at high levels while adding to the diversity (lifestyle, not demographics, though it holds there too) of the academic experience, then one can make the case that they're successful even if they're not going to prominent bowls and making regular NCAA tournament runs.

Or you can Aim High and not hire coaches that have low market value.

No smart hiring manager, in any profession, pays more than they have to. We could double the current coaches' salaries but other than optics what good does that do? Everyone acts like ODU had the pick of the litter in replacing Blaine Taylor but it was a weak free-agent market where the FGCU coach can ride one weekend in the NCAAs into a seven-figure deal at USC and Pitino's kid can parlay his name and one above-mediocre season at FIU into the Minnesota gig. When the time comes to replace a coach, his or her salary will be tied into a number of factors, not the least of which are salary history and what competing organizations are willing to pay. Nobody pays above market value for the sake of appearances and little to nothing else.
10-01-2018 01:42 PM
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Monarchblue Online
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RE: G5 AD Ranks
(10-01-2018 01:40 PM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 01:29 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 01:26 PM)odu09 Wrote:  Isn't Woody in the middle of a record breaking fundraiser? He seems to be just fine at what he does. The problem is ODU has too many sports for a 'mid major' and that's why we have such a huge budget. Not that I'm suggesting cutting sports... but we are spending as if we are in a bigger and more successful conference than we are in... but we have money...?

Woody does great at fundraising, but that is only one part of his job. He sucks at the others. Unfortunately those $$$ are all some folks care about. This is why those who say if we want changes we should donate more. As long as the money keeps coming in, they will continue to evaluate the sports programs as successful.

Which sports is ODU bad at besides football? Say what you want about basketball, we still finish top 4.

We aren't the kind of basketball program where just finishing top 4 in a conference that rarely has more than four even average teams is considered good.
10-01-2018 01:42 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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RE: G5 AD Ranks
(10-01-2018 01:40 PM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 01:29 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 01:26 PM)odu09 Wrote:  Isn't Woody in the middle of a record breaking fundraiser? He seems to be just fine at what he does. The problem is ODU has too many sports for a 'mid major' and that's why we have such a huge budget. Not that I'm suggesting cutting sports... but we are spending as if we are in a bigger and more successful conference than we are in... but we have money...?

Woody does great at fundraising, but that is only one part of his job. He sucks at the others. Unfortunately those $$$ are all some folks care about. This is why those who say if we want changes we should donate more. As long as the money keeps coming in, they will continue to evaluate the sports programs as successful.

Which sports is ODU bad at besides football? Say what you want about basketball, we still finish top 4.

And ODU is not *bad* at football for a program that's in its 10th season of play. Bad is 2-4 wins every season with no relief in sight. Bad is not going a bowl in more than 10 years despite bids being easier to get than 20 percent off coupons at Bed Bath and Beyond. Bad is getting outdrawn by the local high school. This, VT win aside, has been a largely disappointing season, but ask the fans or staffers of any recent FBS moveups that aren't located in the mountains of North Carolina if they'd take ODU's results (on and off the field) in place of their own. My guess is you'll get a lot more "yea" than "nay" votes.
10-01-2018 01:46 PM
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