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Biggest blunders in realignment history
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MidWestMidMajor Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Biggest blunders in realignment history
(09-28-2018 09:14 AM)whittx Wrote:  SUNY not allowing athletic scholarships at UBuffalo until the late 1980's and for all other SUNY University Centers (Binghamton, Stony Brook, and Albany) until the late 1990's.

That's a keen observation. I lived in upstate NY for part of high school. It was just a given that the really good football talent would leave the state. The only "big time" program was Syracuse, and they were usually not so good. Everyone knew Syracuse is a basketball-first school. Maybe their academic reputation intimidated some recruits. SUNY Buffalo is really the only public campus in NY that has the size to be a major power. NY is a big state with a lot of high school players and a lot of talent. But it is almost a FBS desert.
09-28-2018 09:51 AM
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Minutemen429 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Biggest blunders in realignment history
Holy Cross turning down a Big East offer
09-28-2018 09:55 AM
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Chappy Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Biggest blunders in realignment history
I don't know if it was feasible or not, but if Charlotte had started football when UAB and USF did, they wouldn't have been nudged over to the A10 when C-USA 2.0 came into being.

UTEP was the last WAC team invited, so one could assume that C-USA would have looked like this in 2005:

EAST
Charlotte
East Carolina
Marshall
Memphis
UAB
UCF

WEST
Houston
Rice
SMU
Southern Miss
Tulane
Tulsa

On a related note, C-USA should have tried to keep St Louis and Charlotte as non-football members in 2005. I think they really wanted to be an all-sports league, but I think it would have helped basketball out to keep those two programs.
09-28-2018 10:02 AM
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CougarRed Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Biggest blunders in realignment history
Yeah, Florida St to the ACC was not a blunder. It worked out great for both sides. The benefits to Florida St were obvious. The benefits to the ACC were not so obvious unless you look at history.

Before Florida St, the ACC had only placed 2 teams in "New Years" Bowl games from 1961 to 1989.

Maryland '76 Cotton
Clemson '81 Orange

The ACC was a "basketball" conference with no football cache whatsoever outside of the small niche Clemson had carved out for itself. The invitation of Florida St in Sept 1990 put the ACC on the football map, and eventually elevated the programs at the other schools.

And just in time for the creation of the BCS a few years later . . .
(This post was last modified: 09-28-2018 10:06 AM by CougarRed.)
09-28-2018 10:05 AM
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whittx Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Biggest blunders in realignment history
(09-28-2018 09:51 AM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  
(09-28-2018 09:14 AM)whittx Wrote:  SUNY not allowing athletic scholarships at UBuffalo until the late 1980's and for all other SUNY University Centers (Binghamton, Stony Brook, and Albany) until the late 1990's.

That's a keen observation. I lived in upstate NY for part of high school. It was just a given that the really good football talent would leave the state. The only "big time" program was Syracuse, and they were usually not so good. Everyone knew Syracuse is a basketball-first school. Maybe their academic reputation intimidated some recruits. SUNY Buffalo is really the only public campus in NY that has the size to be a major power. NY is a big state with a lot of high school players and a lot of talent. But it is almost a FBS desert.

Grew up outside of Ithaca and am a SUNY Brockport grad. I can understand how Binghamton could have been held up, since it didn't even exist until the late 40's, but the other three (especially Buffalo) never made sense. I am old enough to remember Syracuse having to go on the road for two years to play games since the Dome was built on their old stadium site. Granted that back then, schools like Cornell could draw 15,000 a game at home. Now that there is so much football on TV and the demographics of the Ivy League and Patriot League schools have changed so much, they are lucky to get 5,000 folks there.
09-28-2018 10:20 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Biggest blunders in realignment history
(09-28-2018 09:51 AM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  
(09-28-2018 09:14 AM)whittx Wrote:  SUNY not allowing athletic scholarships at UBuffalo until the late 1980's and for all other SUNY University Centers (Binghamton, Stony Brook, and Albany) until the late 1990's.

That's a keen observation. I lived in upstate NY for part of high school. It was just a given that the really good football talent would leave the state. The only "big time" program was Syracuse, and they were usually not so good. Everyone knew Syracuse is a basketball-first school. Maybe their academic reputation intimidated some recruits. SUNY Buffalo is really the only public campus in NY that has the size to be a major power. NY is a big state with a lot of high school players and a lot of talent. But it is almost a FBS desert.

Agreed. NY politics definitely assisted in keeping SUNY out of the D1 driver's seat. I still think Stony Brook has a high ceiling, and maybe Buffalo, too, but who knows when it's realized.

All things considered, Stony isn't that old of a school...their rise is not quite meteoric, but significant and one to watch nevertheless.
(This post was last modified: 09-28-2018 10:24 AM by The Cutter of Bish.)
09-28-2018 10:22 AM
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Post: #27
RE: Biggest blunders in realignment history
(09-28-2018 10:05 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Yeah, Florida St to the ACC was not a blunder. It worked out great for both sides. The benefits to Florida St were obvious. The benefits to the ACC were not so obvious unless you look at history.

Before Florida St, the ACC had only placed 2 teams in "New Years" Bowl games from 1961 to 1989.

Maryland '76 Cotton
Clemson '81 Orange

The ACC was a "basketball" conference with no football cache whatsoever outside of the small niche Clemson had carved out for itself. The invitation of Florida St in Sept 1990 put the ACC on the football map, and eventually elevated the programs at the other schools.

And just in time for the creation of the BCS a few years later . . .

Before Florida St., the ACC was a WAC level football conference. It was somewhat embarrassing to lose to an ACC team. Clemson, while their team wasn't a fluke, was still viewed almost as much a fluke as BYU winning an MNC in the 80s.
09-28-2018 10:34 AM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Biggest blunders in realignment history
NIU thinking they were better than the MAC and going independent in football while floating around the MCC in other sports.
09-28-2018 10:34 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Biggest blunders in realignment history
PAC 12 blunder under the old alignment when they started accusing each other of cheating, and the disbanded the conference. The 2 schools who did not cheat was left out of a power conference. Idaho and Montana

Big 12's blunder was being forced to take Baylor instead of TCU, Houston, New Mexico or BYU. They should have gone to Big 16 to take those schools. When the 4 schools left later? They would still be at 12.

Chattanooga, Missouri State, Portland State, Sacramento State, Cal. Poly, UC-Davis, Montana, Montana State, James Madison and Delaware blunder not accepting an invite to join FBS in recent years.

WAC for blundering for not accepting a deal for the MVFC to join them for football only for FBS. WAC would still be in FBS right now.

Long Beach State, Northridge State, Fullerton State, CSU-L.A., UC-Santa Barabara, UC-Riverside and others in the Big West all blundered by dropping football.

Grinnell and Drake blundered by leaving the Big 8.

MAC blundered for not taken the last 2 old schools that were conference mates with several MAC members. Youngstown State and Northern Michigan both are/were D1 schools.

MVC and Southern Conference blundered by not staying in FBS.

Washburn for not staying in D1.

Case Western Reserve blunder for not staying in the MAC.
09-28-2018 10:38 AM
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whittx Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Biggest blunders in realignment history
(09-28-2018 10:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-28-2018 10:05 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Yeah, Florida St to the ACC was not a blunder. It worked out great for both sides. The benefits to Florida St were obvious. The benefits to the ACC were not so obvious unless you look at history.

Before Florida St, the ACC had only placed 2 teams in "New Years" Bowl games from 1961 to 1989.

Maryland '76 Cotton
Clemson '81 Orange

The ACC was a "basketball" conference with no football cache whatsoever outside of the small niche Clemson had carved out for itself. The invitation of Florida St in Sept 1990 put the ACC on the football map, and eventually elevated the programs at the other schools.

And just in time for the creation of the BCS a few years later . . .

Before Florida St., the ACC was a WAC level football conference. It was somewhat embarrassing to lose to an ACC team. Clemson, while their team wasn't a fluke, was still viewed almost as much a fluke as BYU winning an MNC in the 80s.

I always thought that Clemson and Kentucky should have switched places, since Kentucky was a basketball school in a football conference and Clemson was a football school in a basketball conference.
09-28-2018 10:38 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Biggest blunders in realignment history
(09-28-2018 10:20 AM)whittx Wrote:  
(09-28-2018 09:51 AM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  
(09-28-2018 09:14 AM)whittx Wrote:  SUNY not allowing athletic scholarships at UBuffalo until the late 1980's and for all other SUNY University Centers (Binghamton, Stony Brook, and Albany) until the late 1990's.

That's a keen observation. I lived in upstate NY for part of high school. It was just a given that the really good football talent would leave the state. The only "big time" program was Syracuse, and they were usually not so good. Everyone knew Syracuse is a basketball-first school. Maybe their academic reputation intimidated some recruits. SUNY Buffalo is really the only public campus in NY that has the size to be a major power. NY is a big state with a lot of high school players and a lot of talent. But it is almost a FBS desert.

Grew up outside of Ithaca and am a SUNY Brockport grad. I can understand how Binghamton could have been held up, since it didn't even exist until the late 40's, but the other three (especially Buffalo) never made sense. I am old enough to remember Syracuse having to go on the road for two years to play games since the Dome was built on their old stadium site. Granted that back then, schools like Cornell could draw 15,000 a game at home. Now that there is so much football on TV and the demographics of the Ivy League and Patriot League schools have changed so much, they are lucky to get 5,000 folks there.


The problem is New York does not have a flagship school in a P5 conference. Both Buffalo and Stony Brook are programs on the rise.
09-28-2018 10:40 AM
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Post: #32
RE: Biggest blunders in realignment history
I think the Big East (pre-2011) made a mistake in not inviting Memphis (full member), Army (football-only), Temple (football-only) and East Carolina (football-only). Memphis would have been approved by the C8 for its strength in men's basketball (coming off the Calipari years), and Army, Temple and ECU would have made for fine football programs to get the league to twelve teams (and a conference championship). I think Big East Football missed a huge opportunity to stage a championship game at Lincoln Financial Field, MetLife Stadium or even Raymond James Stadium. It was unfortunate that the membership could not agree on new members, although none of those candidates were exactly screaming football success at the time.
09-28-2018 10:41 AM
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Post: #33
RE: Biggest blunders in realignment history
FB
1 Big East rejects Penn State
2 WAC 16
3 Tulane leaves SEC
4 Big Ten adds Rutgers
5 Big Ten rejects Notre Dame

BB
1 Holy Cross rejects Big East
2 Oral Roberts Summit-Southland-Summit 360
3 UMKC leaving Summit for WAC
4 A10 adding Fordham
5 Missouri Valley adding Valparaiso over Murray State (give this one time)
09-28-2018 11:10 AM
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Post: #34
RE: Biggest blunders in realignment history
(09-28-2018 09:14 AM)whittx Wrote:  
(09-28-2018 06:02 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  The biggest blunders are the major D3 programs that left the others. M.I.T., Chicago, Johns Hopkins, Carnegie Mellon, Case Western, Washington Missouri, Sewannee, Coast Guard, etc...

M.I.T=Big 10 for Boston t market
Chicago=Big 10 former founding member (dropped sports in the 1940s)
Johns Hopkins=Big 10 instead of Maryland (endowment is much bigger than Maryland's)
Case Western= Big 10 (would be the Northwestern/Purdue type school in Ohio)
Carnegie Mellon=ACC
Washington Missouri=Big 12
Sewannee=SEC former founding member

West Texas A&M former FBS Independent dropping to D2.
UTA, Lamar and Wichita State blunder in dropping their football program.
Florida A&M being an FBS Independent before dropping back to FCS.
Former FBS Independents back between 1978 to 1982. Luckily Appalachian State got back into FBS, but others are stuck right now.

SUNY not allowing athletic scholarships at UBuffalo until the late 1980's and for all other SUNY University Centers (Binghamton, Stony Brook, and Albany) until the late 1990's.

SUNY wants to be like Ivy League. Nothing but academics.
09-28-2018 11:16 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Biggest blunders in realignment history
When Paterno's attempt to form an eastern football league fell through, it would still have been possible for the ACC to add Penn State, Florida State, Miami and either West Virginia or Virginia Tech (all independents at the time), bringing that league to 12 members. They would have been the first conference to do so, followed quickly by the SEC.

I'm not sure the ACC would have felt a need to raid the Big East later, and without Penn State the Big Ten probably would never have been interested in Maryland.
09-28-2018 11:17 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Biggest blunders in realignment history
(09-28-2018 10:38 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  MAC blundered for not taken the last 2 old schools that were conference mates with several MAC members. Youngstown State and Northern Michigan both are/were D1 schools..

Northern Michigan in the MAC would’ve been fascinating just for the road trip. FBS football on the UP off Lake Superior?
09-28-2018 11:24 AM
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Post: #37
RE: Biggest blunders in realignment history
Louisville says no thanks to Great Metro. Once Louisville backed out the deal wasn't coming together thus leading to the Big East stepping in to provide a football home for their members and eventually leaving Louisville on the wrong side of AQ/non-AQ for a number of years. Led to the formation of the Great Midwest, led to the Sun Belt / American South merger, eventually leading to CUSA.

16 team Great Metro wasn't going to happen but a 14 team version heading off Big East football might very well have happened.

Then you have to wonder if the Big East not having the pressure to add football affiliates as full members might have been not only more stable but such a high achiever in hoops that the league would have been better positioned for survival without the drama.
09-28-2018 11:31 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Biggest blunders in realignment history
(09-28-2018 11:10 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  5 Missouri Valley adding Valparaiso over Murray State (give this one time)

I hope. You may have "James Madison" types in MVC with Missouri State, Illinois State, and UNI who should tell MVC where to shove it with giving away a public school's spot for a private and then not giving Murray the return by collectively leaving the conference and turning MVC into Horizon West, but won't.
09-28-2018 11:34 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Biggest blunders in realignment history
(09-28-2018 10:38 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  PAC 12 blunder under the old alignment when they started accusing each other of cheating, and the disbanded the conference. The 2 schools who did not cheat was left out of a power conference. Idaho and Montana

Montana had actually left the conference at that point (Montana left in 1950, scandal broke in 1956, and the conference disbanded in 1959).

The only team that didn't join the new conference was Idaho. And it's worked out pretty well for the PAC-12.
(This post was last modified: 09-28-2018 11:45 AM by dunstvangeet.)
09-28-2018 11:45 AM
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Post: #40
RE: Biggest blunders in realignment history
nebraska ut of their element in b-10
i also tought BE could had options w/ A-10
[louv, cin, memp] [ucf -so fla]
ecu offered tv n tickets
conn n mass makes anthother8
(This post was last modified: 09-28-2018 01:10 PM by templefootballfan.)
09-28-2018 11:51 AM
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