I know not everyone here is a fan of econometrics, but this is a pretty interesting listen if you like podcasts...

Here’s Why You’re Not an Elite Athlete (Ep. 351) - Freakonomics Freakonomics

Here’s Why You’re Not an Elite Athlete (Ep. 351) - Freakonomics Freakonomics Wrote:When you see an elite performer in any field — sports or music or surgery, whatever — it’s natural to ask yourself a question: how’d they get so good? How much of that ability were they born with? How much is attributable to hard work and practice? This is a debate that’s been going on probably forever: nature versus nurture; raw talent versus what’s called “deliberate practice.” We’ve had the debate on this program, most recently in an episode called “How to Become Great at Just About Anything.” Too often, this debate ends up obscuring what strikes me as a pretty obvious fact: to become great at anything, you need both: talent and practice. Lots of each. But even that fact seems pretty narrow, don’t you think?

Takeaway for me... it's no real secret why I was never an elite athlete. Fortunately, I was good enough at the school stuff and testing stuff that I don't have to live with regrets about cutting my promising fencing career short.

It's the greatest lie we tell our children (but still a good message): "you can do anything you want if you just work hard enough". No, not really. You must also have the genetic base ability to go along with the hard work. If you fail at something, you then move to something else you are better suited for and maximize your ability there. This seems pretty well understood, except for this generation of parents who have decided that everyone's a winner, and we will change the rules so that everyone can get into medical school, or make varsity cheer, etc.

Old guy going back to work now . . .

LOL!

Being a really world class and elite player in any sport/ profession is really special.
And difficult. Lots of obstacles to overcome. I think it’s a bit more than just talent and practice.

If you haven’t seen it, I recommend you watch “Whiplash”. It’s brief glimpse into what it takes to be really elite and maybe world class at what you do. Lots of pain involved.

Might have something to do with being short, having small bad hands, no coordination, and not a single fast twitch muscle in my body, and no instincts for visually assessing the action around me. It's a curse that I like sports so much.

(09-27-2018 08:39 AM)Rice FB Fan Wrote:  It's the greatest lie we tell our children (but still a good message): "you can do anything you want if you just work hard enough". No, not really.

Yep. I wish more youth coaches were more honest and up front with this. My goals have been to teach my kids skills and habits that will help them (and their friends) kick the crap out of each other as they reach adulthood. My son is a far better athlete than I, but still lacks a number of attributes for him to be elite (among them, attention span and general focus).

edit: "You'll be safe" would give that a run for its money, but perhaps that's a lie that parents tell themselves...

One of my favorite adult memories is walking into a friend's shop ... he was around 45-50 at the time and we'd played pick up soccer the previous day. He had the same smile on his face that he would have had at 6 years old around a ball as he limped over to greet me...

(09-27-2018 10:47 AM)billstudabaker Wrote:  Might have something to do with being short, having small bad hands, no coordination, and not a single fast twitch muscle in my body, and no instincts for visually assessing the action around me. It's a curse that I like sports so much.

I've got decent height, but perpetually out of shape, slow, and unskilled put a basic ceiling on my athletic achievements.

(09-27-2018 12:48 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(09-27-2018 08:39 AM)Rice FB Fan Wrote:  It's the greatest lie we tell our children (but still a good message): "you can do anything you want if you just work hard enough". No, not really.

Yep. I wish more youth coaches were more honest and up front with this. My goals have been to teach my kids skills and habits that will help them (and their friends) kick the crap out of each other as they reach adulthood. My son is a far better athlete than I, but still lacks a number of attributes for him to be elite (among them, attention span and general focus).

edit: "You'll be safe" would give that a run for its money, but perhaps that's a lie that parents tell themselves...

One of my favorite adult memories is walking into a friend's shop ... he was around 45-50 at the time and we'd played pick up soccer the previous day. He had the same smile on his face that he would have had at 6 years old around a ball as he limped over to greet me...

(09-27-2018 10:47 AM)billstudabaker Wrote:  Might have something to do with being short, having small bad hands, no coordination, and not a single fast twitch muscle in my body, and no instincts for visually assessing the action around me. It's a curse that I like sports so much.

I've got decent height, but perpetually out of shape, slow, and unskilled put a basic ceiling on my athletic achievements.

short answer, talent
long answer lack of talent