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Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
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WoodlandsOwl Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
Abolish the Dept of Energy?? DOE is basically a combination of the Atomic Energy Commission/Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Military Nuclear Weapons Research, the Nuclear Research Labs, and FERC.

Department of Education was split out of Department of Health, Education and Welfare, which is now Department of Health and Human Services.

Its always been there. Just under different names.

If you want to talk about a clusterF---- of governmental inefficiency, lets talk about about changing the organization of the Dept of Homeland Security.













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09-26-2018 09:49 PM
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tanqtonic Online
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Post: #42
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
Going back to 'who are the mostest agitators' I think the Tea Party should get a vote for this one:

Who Published these Addresses and Phone Numbers
09-27-2018 07:08 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
Interesting that a thread about racism so quickly devolves into a series of characterizations and attacks on those characterizations.


I think the simple fact is that a party that believes in small Federal government and local control is going to want to consolidate Health and Human Services and the DOE back into something more like the H, E and W department from which it came, while the party that believes in large central government and central control is going to want to further separate Health and Human Services into their own departments.

I think it also obvious that alleging 'racism' (or most other ism's) is an effective way to shout people down or at the least, put them on the defensive to derail their agenda, which only rarely has anything to do with race. It's the sort of deflection that then becomes self-fulfilling.

The most recent tact has been to claim that 'attacking Nazi's' is or should be okay, and then we go about defining who is and isn't a Nazi.... which iirc, was precisely how the Nazi's worked.
10-01-2018 11:46 AM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #44
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(10-01-2018 11:46 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Interesting that a thread about racism so quickly devolves into a series of characterizations and attacks on those characterizations.


I think the simple fact is that a party that believes in small Federal government and local control is going to want to consolidate Health and Human Services and the DOE back into something more like the H, E and W department from which it came, while the party that believes in large central government and central control is going to want to further separate Health and Human Services into their own departments.

I think it also obvious that alleging 'racism' (or most other ism's) is an effective way to shout people down or at the least, put them on the defensive to derail their agenda, which only rarely has anything to do with race. It's the sort of deflection that then becomes self-fulfilling.

The most recent tact has been to claim that 'attacking Nazi's' is or should be okay, and then we go about defining who is and isn't a Nazi.... which iirc, was precisely how the Nazi's worked.

It's a bit ironic, then, that the same party has a knee jerk reaction to reevaluating and consolidating ICE, an agency that was created during the administrative bloat that sprung forth around safety after 9/11.

I would also think that this party would be very wary over encouraging federal officials (and state, for that matter) from being able to check people's legal status (i.e. passport, driver's license, etc.) without probably cause (which ICE has been reported doing on a regular basis).
10-01-2018 12:47 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #45
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(10-01-2018 12:47 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 11:46 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Interesting that a thread about racism so quickly devolves into a series of characterizations and attacks on those characterizations.
I think the simple fact is that a party that believes in small Federal government and local control is going to want to consolidate Health and Human Services and the DOE back into something more like the H, E and W department from which it came, while the party that believes in large central government and central control is going to want to further separate Health and Human Services into their own departments.
I think it also obvious that alleging 'racism' (or most other ism's) is an effective way to shout people down or at the least, put them on the defensive to derail their agenda, which only rarely has anything to do with race. It's the sort of deflection that then becomes self-fulfilling.
The most recent tact has been to claim that 'attacking Nazi's' is or should be okay, and then we go about defining who is and isn't a Nazi.... which iirc, was precisely how the Nazi's worked.
It's a bit ironic, then, that the same party has a knee jerk reaction to reevaluating and consolidating ICE, an agency that was created during the administrative bloat that sprung forth around safety after 9/11.

Not really. That party believes that ICE has a valid mission to perform, but that splitting HEW to HHS and DofEd was simply bureaucratic over creep without advancing any legitimate mission. Spending on education has skyrocketed since the DofEd was created, with no measurable improvement, and in fact measurable decline in performance. We spend much more per pupil on education that other advanced countries, and get results that are mediocre at best. When the same was said about health care, wasn't that considered proof beyond contest that our susyem had failed?

Quote:I would also think that this party would be very wary over encouraging federal officials (and state, for that matter) from being able to check people's legal status (i.e. passport, driver's license, etc.) without probable cause (which ICE has been reported doing on a regular basis).

We have so many violations of 4th Amendment and other protections that this hardly seems the place to start. This is clearly not the most egregious violation. Not by a long shot.
10-01-2018 01:38 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(10-01-2018 12:47 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I would also think that this party would be very wary over encouraging federal officials (and state, for that matter) from being able to check people's legal status (i.e. passport, driver's license, etc.) without probably cause (which ICE has been reported doing on a regular basis).

As a child in the 50's, whenever we drove north, there was always a checkpoint where we were asked our citizenship, and occasionally my dad was asked for his DL. I do not know the agency or the probable cause.

When you drive into Mexico, you are stopped there and asked about your citizenship.
10-01-2018 02:03 PM
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tanqtonic Online
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Post: #47
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(10-01-2018 12:47 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I would also think that this party would be very wary over encouraging federal officials (and state, for that matter) from being able to check people's legal status (i.e. passport, driver's license, etc.) without probably cause (which ICE has been reported doing on a regular basis).

I suggest you head to YouTube and search for 'ICE checkpoint' -- the videos there are quite illuminating. Somehow I doubt the people involved are #Resistance types, but I might be grossly mistaken.

By the way, there is a reason my wife hates for me to be driving when we hit the checkpoints 100 miles north of the border on I-25 out of Las Cruces. Or 60 miles north outside of Alamogordo heading north.

And yes, representing people pro-bono who are searched after refusing the questions is quite fun. Can be quite lucrative also.... Just saying.

You may want to walk back your blanket statement above. Anyone who has lived within 90 miles of the border is painfully aware of the specious 4th amendment grounds that ICE thrives on with the checkpoints. But.... I would hazard that only a fraction of people in the United States, let alone the whom support Republicans are really aware of this portion on the issue.
10-01-2018 02:27 PM
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illiniowl Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(10-01-2018 12:47 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 11:46 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Interesting that a thread about racism so quickly devolves into a series of characterizations and attacks on those characterizations.


I think the simple fact is that a party that believes in small Federal government and local control is going to want to consolidate Health and Human Services and the DOE back into something more like the H, E and W department from which it came, while the party that believes in large central government and central control is going to want to further separate Health and Human Services into their own departments.

I think it also obvious that alleging 'racism' (or most other ism's) is an effective way to shout people down or at the least, put them on the defensive to derail their agenda, which only rarely has anything to do with race. It's the sort of deflection that then becomes self-fulfilling.

The most recent tact has been to claim that 'attacking Nazi's' is or should be okay, and then we go about defining who is and isn't a Nazi.... which iirc, was precisely how the Nazi's worked.


It's a bit ironic, then, that the same party has a knee jerk reaction to reevaluating and consolidating ICE, an agency that was created during the administrative bloat that sprung forth around safety after 9/11.

It's ironic that the only time the Left gets hawkish about government bloat is when it comes to law enforcement.

I don't see any knee-jerk reaction going on. I do see rational, informed opposition to what the opponent has said it wants to do at the end of the day, which is abolish deportation, for which the vague and more reasonable-sounding "reevaluate and consolidate ICE" is simply a stalking horse. Or do I misunderstand the true intentions of my friends across the aisle? They would, in fact, be happy if ICE's immigration enforcement (including deportation) function simply was split off into a new agency and renamed? So we could just put immigration enforcement under a new banner (INS?) and call it a day?
10-01-2018 02:30 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(10-01-2018 02:30 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  So we could just put immigration enforcement under a new banner

We could call it the Department of NO Deportations.
10-01-2018 04:16 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(10-01-2018 12:47 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  It's a bit ironic, then, that the same party has a knee jerk reaction to reevaluating and consolidating ICE, an agency that was created during the administrative bloat that sprung forth around safety after 9/11.

I challenge you lad, to find 5 bumper stickers or protest placards or anything else in an open protest suggesting a 're-evaluation and consolidation' of ICE. In a matter of seconds, I could show you thousands suggesting we ABOLISH (do away with completely) ICE from the left. The fact that you call it a knee-jerk reaction to some sort of poorly articulated efficiency overhaul is not (imo) genuine.

I think the right would be more than happy to cut the bloat in DHS, INS, Border Patrol, ICE etc.... so long as you don't ABOLISH or render them impotent.


Quote:I would also think that this party would be very wary over encouraging federal officials (and state, for that matter) from being able to check people's legal status (i.e. passport, driver's license, etc.) without probably cause (which ICE has been reported doing on a regular basis).

Lots of things get reported in this day and age... doesn't mean it happens. One such report involves uninformed people assuming that ICE was performing an unwarranted immigration raid only to find that it was an actual warranted raid on a child sex-trafficking ring. Drove by the place in question and the moron next door still has a sign in his window saying 'abolish ice'. Guess he's a pedophile.

There are factions of the Republican party that would agree with you... the separatist... live off the grid in the mountains fringe types... Most of us don't have any problem showing an ID to vote or anything else. According to the mainstream left, such a thing is racist.

Unfortunately I think we'd have to go to some uncomfortable extremes in the short term to solve some of our issues of neglect of our sovereignty over the past few decades.
10-01-2018 11:08 PM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #51
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(10-01-2018 11:08 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 12:47 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  It's a bit ironic, then, that the same party has a knee jerk reaction to reevaluating and consolidating ICE, an agency that was created during the administrative bloat that sprung forth around safety after 9/11.

I challenge you lad, to find 5 bumper stickers or protest placards or anything else in an open protest suggesting a 're-evaluation and consolidation' of ICE. In a matter of seconds, I could show you thousands suggesting we ABOLISH (do away with completely) ICE from the left. The fact that you call it a knee-jerk reaction to some sort of poorly articulated efficiency overhaul is not (imo) genuine.

I think the right would be more than happy to cut the bloat in DHS, INS, Border Patrol, ICE etc.... so long as you don't ABOLISH or render them impotent.


Quote:I would also think that this party would be very wary over encouraging federal officials (and state, for that matter) from being able to check people's legal status (i.e. passport, driver's license, etc.) without probably cause (which ICE has been reported doing on a regular basis).

Lots of things get reported in this day and age... doesn't mean it happens. One such report involves uninformed people assuming that ICE was performing an unwarranted immigration raid only to find that it was an actual warranted raid on a child sex-trafficking ring. Drove by the place in question and the moron next door still has a sign in his window saying 'abolish ice'. Guess he's a pedophile.

There are factions of the Republican party that would agree with you... the separatist... live off the grid in the mountains fringe types... Most of us don't have any problem showing an ID to vote or anything else. According to the mainstream left, such a thing is racist.

Unfortunately I think we'd have to go to some uncomfortable extremes in the short term to solve some of our issues of neglect of our sovereignty over the past few decades.

I guess every single conservative who hopped on the “abolish the IRS” train a few years ago was actually arguing for abolishing all federal taxation.
10-02-2018 07:07 AM
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tanqtonic Online
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Post: #52
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(10-02-2018 07:07 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 11:08 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 12:47 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  It's a bit ironic, then, that the same party has a knee jerk reaction to reevaluating and consolidating ICE, an agency that was created during the administrative bloat that sprung forth around safety after 9/11.

I challenge you lad, to find 5 bumper stickers or protest placards or anything else in an open protest suggesting a 're-evaluation and consolidation' of ICE. In a matter of seconds, I could show you thousands suggesting we ABOLISH (do away with completely) ICE from the left. The fact that you call it a knee-jerk reaction to some sort of poorly articulated efficiency overhaul is not (imo) genuine.

I think the right would be more than happy to cut the bloat in DHS, INS, Border Patrol, ICE etc.... so long as you don't ABOLISH or render them impotent.


Quote:I would also think that this party would be very wary over encouraging federal officials (and state, for that matter) from being able to check people's legal status (i.e. passport, driver's license, etc.) without probably cause (which ICE has been reported doing on a regular basis).

Lots of things get reported in this day and age... doesn't mean it happens. One such report involves uninformed people assuming that ICE was performing an unwarranted immigration raid only to find that it was an actual warranted raid on a child sex-trafficking ring. Drove by the place in question and the moron next door still has a sign in his window saying 'abolish ice'. Guess he's a pedophile.

There are factions of the Republican party that would agree with you... the separatist... live off the grid in the mountains fringe types... Most of us don't have any problem showing an ID to vote or anything else. According to the mainstream left, such a thing is racist.

Unfortunately I think we'd have to go to some uncomfortable extremes in the short term to solve some of our issues of neglect of our sovereignty over the past few decades.

I guess every single conservative who hopped on the “abolish the IRS” train a few years ago was actually arguing for abolishing all federal taxation.

Actually, many might. Duh.....

Thanks for making the cogent point against yourself.
10-02-2018 09:19 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(10-02-2018 09:19 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(10-02-2018 07:07 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 11:08 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 12:47 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  It's a bit ironic, then, that the same party has a knee jerk reaction to reevaluating and consolidating ICE, an agency that was created during the administrative bloat that sprung forth around safety after 9/11.

I challenge you lad, to find 5 bumper stickers or protest placards or anything else in an open protest suggesting a 're-evaluation and consolidation' of ICE. In a matter of seconds, I could show you thousands suggesting we ABOLISH (do away with completely) ICE from the left. The fact that you call it a knee-jerk reaction to some sort of poorly articulated efficiency overhaul is not (imo) genuine.

I think the right would be more than happy to cut the bloat in DHS, INS, Border Patrol, ICE etc.... so long as you don't ABOLISH or render them impotent.


Quote:I would also think that this party would be very wary over encouraging federal officials (and state, for that matter) from being able to check people's legal status (i.e. passport, driver's license, etc.) without probably cause (which ICE has been reported doing on a regular basis).

Lots of things get reported in this day and age... doesn't mean it happens. One such report involves uninformed people assuming that ICE was performing an unwarranted immigration raid only to find that it was an actual warranted raid on a child sex-trafficking ring. Drove by the place in question and the moron next door still has a sign in his window saying 'abolish ice'. Guess he's a pedophile.

There are factions of the Republican party that would agree with you... the separatist... live off the grid in the mountains fringe types... Most of us don't have any problem showing an ID to vote or anything else. According to the mainstream left, such a thing is racist.

Unfortunately I think we'd have to go to some uncomfortable extremes in the short term to solve some of our issues of neglect of our sovereignty over the past few decades.

I guess every single conservative who hopped on the “abolish the IRS” train a few years ago was actually arguing for abolishing all federal taxation.

Actually, many might. Duh.....

Thanks for making the cogent point against yourself.

I must have missed that train. Who was driving it - what candidate(s) ran on that platform?

We will always need tax collection enforcement. Even pure hearted liberals will dodge their taxes if they think they can get away with it. But various forms of tax reform can minimize or even eliminate the presence of the IRS in the lives of our citizens.
(This post was last modified: 10-02-2018 09:32 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
10-02-2018 09:31 AM
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tanqtonic Online
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Post: #54
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
He is trying to make the 'weaponization of the IRS' phrase into an example for that hill he wont climb down from for the 'Abolish ICE' issue.
10-02-2018 09:43 AM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #55
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(10-02-2018 09:19 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(10-02-2018 07:07 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 11:08 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 12:47 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  It's a bit ironic, then, that the same party has a knee jerk reaction to reevaluating and consolidating ICE, an agency that was created during the administrative bloat that sprung forth around safety after 9/11.

I challenge you lad, to find 5 bumper stickers or protest placards or anything else in an open protest suggesting a 're-evaluation and consolidation' of ICE. In a matter of seconds, I could show you thousands suggesting we ABOLISH (do away with completely) ICE from the left. The fact that you call it a knee-jerk reaction to some sort of poorly articulated efficiency overhaul is not (imo) genuine.

I think the right would be more than happy to cut the bloat in DHS, INS, Border Patrol, ICE etc.... so long as you don't ABOLISH or render them impotent.


Quote:I would also think that this party would be very wary over encouraging federal officials (and state, for that matter) from being able to check people's legal status (i.e. passport, driver's license, etc.) without probably cause (which ICE has been reported doing on a regular basis).

Lots of things get reported in this day and age... doesn't mean it happens. One such report involves uninformed people assuming that ICE was performing an unwarranted immigration raid only to find that it was an actual warranted raid on a child sex-trafficking ring. Drove by the place in question and the moron next door still has a sign in his window saying 'abolish ice'. Guess he's a pedophile.

There are factions of the Republican party that would agree with you... the separatist... live off the grid in the mountains fringe types... Most of us don't have any problem showing an ID to vote or anything else. According to the mainstream left, such a thing is racist.

Unfortunately I think we'd have to go to some uncomfortable extremes in the short term to solve some of our issues of neglect of our sovereignty over the past few decades.

I guess every single conservative who hopped on the “abolish the IRS” train a few years ago was actually arguing for abolishing all federal taxation.

Actually, many might. Duh.....

Thanks for making the cogent point against yourself.

I've never said that no liberal/progressive actually wants to abolish ICE with no replacement plan. I actually acknowledged that fringes of the left do want that.

I've repeatedly said that I was talking about most politicians advocating for this position.

For example:

Quote: The mainstream candidates that I’ve heard y’all about abolishing ICE don’t mean that. They talk about refocusing how border protection is implemented...

Quote:Perfect example of how even the more-left leaning candidates publicly advocate that abolishing ICE is about reinventing immigration policy and not just, as the most cynical will say, creating open borders for votes. Yes, some lawmakers will probably try and abolish deportations in general, but that is the fringe we’re talking about.

Quote:I’m actually looking past the first sentence and recognizing that the majority of lawmakers advocating for that position include an explanation of what that would mean.

Nice try there, but if you've read my posts, you would see that this is a perfect example. There are people who don't think past the tag line, but the more mainstream politicians who are advocating these positions often think past the tag line and have a plan the replace the :insert department here:.
10-02-2018 09:44 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(10-02-2018 09:43 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  He is trying to make the 'weaponization of the IRS' phrase into an example for that hill he wont climb down from for the 'Abolish ICE' issue.

Oh, you mean like when the IRS would not certify right wing groups?
10-02-2018 09:45 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(10-02-2018 09:44 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  There are people who don't think past the tag line

...and they generally vote straight ticket Democrat.
10-02-2018 09:47 AM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #58
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(10-02-2018 09:31 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(10-02-2018 09:19 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(10-02-2018 07:07 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 11:08 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 12:47 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  It's a bit ironic, then, that the same party has a knee jerk reaction to reevaluating and consolidating ICE, an agency that was created during the administrative bloat that sprung forth around safety after 9/11.

I challenge you lad, to find 5 bumper stickers or protest placards or anything else in an open protest suggesting a 're-evaluation and consolidation' of ICE. In a matter of seconds, I could show you thousands suggesting we ABOLISH (do away with completely) ICE from the left. The fact that you call it a knee-jerk reaction to some sort of poorly articulated efficiency overhaul is not (imo) genuine.

I think the right would be more than happy to cut the bloat in DHS, INS, Border Patrol, ICE etc.... so long as you don't ABOLISH or render them impotent.


Quote:I would also think that this party would be very wary over encouraging federal officials (and state, for that matter) from being able to check people's legal status (i.e. passport, driver's license, etc.) without probably cause (which ICE has been reported doing on a regular basis).

Lots of things get reported in this day and age... doesn't mean it happens. One such report involves uninformed people assuming that ICE was performing an unwarranted immigration raid only to find that it was an actual warranted raid on a child sex-trafficking ring. Drove by the place in question and the moron next door still has a sign in his window saying 'abolish ice'. Guess he's a pedophile.

There are factions of the Republican party that would agree with you... the separatist... live off the grid in the mountains fringe types... Most of us don't have any problem showing an ID to vote or anything else. According to the mainstream left, such a thing is racist.

Unfortunately I think we'd have to go to some uncomfortable extremes in the short term to solve some of our issues of neglect of our sovereignty over the past few decades.

I guess every single conservative who hopped on the “abolish the IRS” train a few years ago was actually arguing for abolishing all federal taxation.

Actually, many might. Duh.....

Thanks for making the cogent point against yourself.

I must have missed that train. Who was driving it - what candidate(s) ran on that platform?

We will always need tax collection enforcement. Even pure hearted liberals will dodge their taxes if they think they can get away with it. But various forms of tax reform can minimize or even eliminate the presence of the IRS in the lives of our citizens.

Rand Paul: http://abolishnow.com/

Ted Cruz: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ted-c...ng-the-irs

The Republican Study Committee: http://fortune.com/2016/05/02/congressio...h-the-irs/

Just like with Abolish ICE, if you dig past the sentence, the majority of the Reps calling for the abolishment of the IRS is because they want to simplify the federal tax code and a part of that would be abolishing the IRS (generally stated because it wouldn't be useful anymore).
10-02-2018 09:48 AM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #59
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(10-02-2018 09:43 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  He is trying to make the 'weaponization of the IRS' phrase into an example for that hill he wont climb down from for the 'Abolish ICE' issue.

Lol. You don't actually know this policy position well.

The call has primarily been correlated to a streamlining of the tax code, rendering the IRS mostly pointless.
10-02-2018 09:49 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(10-02-2018 09:48 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(10-02-2018 09:31 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(10-02-2018 09:19 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(10-02-2018 07:07 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 11:08 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I challenge you lad, to find 5 bumper stickers or protest placards or anything else in an open protest suggesting a 're-evaluation and consolidation' of ICE. In a matter of seconds, I could show you thousands suggesting we ABOLISH (do away with completely) ICE from the left. The fact that you call it a knee-jerk reaction to some sort of poorly articulated efficiency overhaul is not (imo) genuine.

I think the right would be more than happy to cut the bloat in DHS, INS, Border Patrol, ICE etc.... so long as you don't ABOLISH or render them impotent.



Lots of things get reported in this day and age... doesn't mean it happens. One such report involves uninformed people assuming that ICE was performing an unwarranted immigration raid only to find that it was an actual warranted raid on a child sex-trafficking ring. Drove by the place in question and the moron next door still has a sign in his window saying 'abolish ice'. Guess he's a pedophile.

There are factions of the Republican party that would agree with you... the separatist... live off the grid in the mountains fringe types... Most of us don't have any problem showing an ID to vote or anything else. According to the mainstream left, such a thing is racist.

Unfortunately I think we'd have to go to some uncomfortable extremes in the short term to solve some of our issues of neglect of our sovereignty over the past few decades.

I guess every single conservative who hopped on the “abolish the IRS” train a few years ago was actually arguing for abolishing all federal taxation.

Actually, many might. Duh.....

Thanks for making the cogent point against yourself.

I must have missed that train. Who was driving it - what candidate(s) ran on that platform?

We will always need tax collection enforcement. Even pure hearted liberals will dodge their taxes if they think they can get away with it. But various forms of tax reform can minimize or even eliminate the presence of the IRS in the lives of our citizens.

Rand Paul: http://abolishnow.com/

Ted Cruz: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ted-c...ng-the-irs

The Republican Study Committee: http://fortune.com/2016/05/02/congressio...h-the-irs/

Just like with Abolish ICE, if you dig past the sentence, the majority of the Reps calling for the abolishment of the IRS is because they want to simplify the federal tax code and a part of that would be abolishing the IRS (generally stated because it wouldn't be useful anymore).

So the Democrats have a plan in which ICE would not be useful anymore? What are the details and who are the advocates? The only one I have heard is no more deportations, no stopping people at the border.

I favor the Fair Tax, eliminating personal income taxes and replacing them with a national consumption tax. Under my plan, the IRS would be repurposed to auditing and enforcing the collectors of the consumption tax, exactly the same as is done now by the State Comptrollers office in collecting sales taxes.

But I NEVER, never, never called for the abolishment of the IRS.
10-02-2018 09:56 AM
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