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Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #361
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(06-03-2020 10:38 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 10:34 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 10:28 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 10:15 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  As far as all the racists joining the GOP, let's take a look at the George Floyd situation. It occurred in Minneapolis, a city with a democrat mayor in a state with a democrat governor and two democrat US senators. Even more interesting, it occurred in a congressional district represented by, guess who, Ilhan Omar. Still more interesting, the officer in question had 12 prior complaints, which is not an unusual number, but what is unusual is that the DA who ruled out taking action against him for those prior complaints was one Amy Klobuchar.

So in a situation that is about as democrat as one can get, this happened.

People say blacks should vote for change. Maybe the change they need is to vote all those democrats out of office.



Your argument that the party in power in a city/state somehow controls what is the in the hearts and minds of every constituent is interesting to say the least.

Is that what he is saying? I misunderstood, I guess. I thought he was saying the Democrats in power had not done a damn thing about the alleged systemic racism in the police and the lack of justice the people are demonstrating against. So what good have all those democrats done for the people?

Is your assertion that black people tend to be treated better in areas where the GOP is in power?

Like most things... I sure that the reason that Minnesota is having these recurrent issues is quite nuanced. Saying "Vote out the Democrats" doesn't make sense to me.

I sure do enjoy the fact that every time a liberal is pressed with a very basic set of facts, the fallback is that 'it is nuanced'.

Not the first time we have seen this rodeo in this forum, mind you.
06-03-2020 01:17 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #362
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(06-03-2020 10:53 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 10:10 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  A couple of years ago, I had a discussion with several black friends about a situation where a white police officer saw a young black male loitering around in a neighborhood, and there were reports of young males throwing rocks through windows and breaking them. The officer stopped the kid, found out that he was far from home, and determined that he should take him home. He cuffed the kid and put him in the back of the police car and drove him home. When he got there, the kid's mother came out and pitched a fit. My black friends were totally pissed off at the officer, and asked me how I would feel if that were my son. I said I'd probably thank the officer for bringing him home and talk to my son and find out if he did it, and pretty much wear his butt out if he did. They could not believe that I wouldn't have gone ballistic on the officer. From that conversation, I came to realize that black and white children are taught very differently about interaction with police. Black kids are taught to distrust them, white kids are taught to trust them. And I have to believe that has some impact on disparate treatment.

The point was brought home to me again by an article a week or so ago by a black professor from an urban university. Obviously intelligent and well educated, he was stopped while walking from his car park to his classroom, by police who said he matched a description they had of a burglar. He was detained for several minutes and released, still in time to get to his class. What he said that caught my attention was that while he was being detained he made up his mind that if they tried to put him in the police car, he would resist physically, because he felt that if they got him in the car, they would haul him off and kill him. I'm not aware of any situation where that has ever happened, and any time police kill a black man it gets pretty widely publicized, so i tend to believe that is a pretty irrational fear. But if a highly educated and presumably intelligent black man can believe that, then that is clearly a problem.

I appreciate the post and the outcome of the thinking.

But I have to ask, did you forget the Henry Louis Gates arrest and the subsequent diplomacy beer?

The 'diplomacy beer' at the garden of the President whom had very publicly sided against the Cambridge PD? That one?
06-03-2020 01:24 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #363
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(06-03-2020 12:48 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 12:33 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 12:15 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 11:35 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 10:38 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Is your assertion that black people tend to be treated better in areas where the GOP is in power?

I don't read that into what he said, either. He didn't even mention the GOP.

The basic choice is one of two parties. When one says "The Democrats haven't handled this issue well. They should be voted out." the implication is that the GOP would handle the issue better. He didn't have to mention the GOP by name.

Quote:
Quote:Like most things... I sure that the reason that Minnesota is having these recurrent issues is quite nuanced. Saying "Vote out the Democrats" doesn't make sense to me.

Well, they're in charge. The police there are their employees. If they aren't responsible for police conduct and accountability, then who is? If people living in Minneapolis want things to change, doesn't it make sense to vote for a change in leadership?

Remember this next time you're blaming a Republican president for this or that action by the federal government.

I have a hard time ascribing these "excessive use of force" issues in the Minnesota police force to the platform of the Democratic party. I have an even harder time figuring out how GOP policies would improve this situation.

We are always subjected to politicians of all stripes telling us that if we want change, we should go to polls and vote it in. Didn't you have a guy not so long ago run on a platform of hope and change? Change from what, to what? That was never clear.

What GOP policies are concerning you? Enforcement of the laws? I don't care what the DNC tells you, protection of racists is not in the GOP platform or its agenda.

As for " ascribing these "excessive use of force" issues in the Minnesota police force to the platform of the Democratic party", I don't see that was said or implied. What was said is that the Democrats in power did not get the job done, more a matter of negligence than platform. Probably the platform was fine, just not executed. Was it part of the D platform that racists would be eliminated from policing? If so, why did it not happen? Which Republican is at fault? Klobuchar? Ellison?

At some point, your guys need to keep their promises.

At what point in the police departments of Minnesota did this sort of behavior become ingrained and/or acceptable? Certainly this didn't happen overnight.

Looking back at Minnesota over the past 30 years, you have a Republican governor for 16 years and a Democrat for 9 years (removing Jesse Ventura from this equation) . Should we say that the Republicans didn't get the job done?

I agree with Lad. More of a systemic issue and not one that is fixed simply by voting out the current party (whether they be Democrat or Republican).

'Systemic issue' -- are you talking about excessive police force in general, or excessive police force in terms of your cherry picked minorities?

One is a generalized question --- the other is a political football that keeps getting thrown.

One would expect if the former, then the rates of excessive police force against minorities would be proportionally greater amongst (pick your minority de jour) being detained versus (pick your selected scapegoat class) being detained.

Or that the use of excessive police force against (present minority de jour class) detained would be greater than the rate of excessive police force against the number of people on the whole detained.

So please do tell which issue you are talking about. You are being somewhat vague here and perhaps we should delimit the issue to be somewhat precise.
06-03-2020 01:33 PM
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Frizzy Owl Offline
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Post: #364
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(06-03-2020 12:55 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 12:42 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 12:15 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 11:35 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 10:38 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Is your assertion that black people tend to be treated better in areas where the GOP is in power?

I don't read that into what he said, either. He didn't even mention the GOP.

The basic choice is one of two parties. When one says "The Democrats haven't handled this issue well. They should be voted out." the implication is that the GOP would handle the issue better. He didn't have to mention the GOP by name.

Quote:
Quote:Like most things... I sure that the reason that Minnesota is having these recurrent issues is quite nuanced. Saying "Vote out the Democrats" doesn't make sense to me.

Well, they're in charge. The police there are their employees. If they aren't responsible for police conduct and accountability, then who is? If people living in Minneapolis want things to change, doesn't it make sense to vote for a change in leadership?

Remember this next time you're blaming a Republican president for this or that action by the federal government.

I have a hard time ascribing these "excessive use of force" issues in the Minnesota police force to the platform of the Democratic party.

Nobody's doing that. The Minneapolis police issues are being ascribed to the people in charge of Minneapolis. As it happens, those people are Democrats.

Are you arguing that because they are Democrats, they should be excused by the voters instead of voted out of office? If not, then just what is your point?

Quote:I have an even harder time figuring out how GOP policies would improve this situation.

Do you have a hard time believing that a change in leadership would improve the situation? If you do, then why hold any politician of either party accountable for anything? If the incumbents in Minneapolis run for re-election, then how - pray tell - can the voters change the leadership, except by voting for their opponents?

There are certain issues that I think are easier to pin responsibility on the current party in charge than others. There are plenty of issues that the Democrats fumble and I'd agree that voting against them on that basis makes sense. This simply isn't one of those IMO.

Taking a snapshot of the country right now... things are pretty damn bleak. Are you going to assign blame to the Republicans who have been in charge for the past 3 1/2 years for our current situation?

Credit - and blame - to each where it is due.

That's what "nuance" means in this context.

You're using nuance as a smokescreen - because the current leadership of the Minneapolis police aren't entirely responsible, you say voters shouldn't hold them at all responsible.

Do you think Biden will do a better job than Trump of addressing the issues behind the riots? If you do, would you accept an argument that because the problems are nuanced there's no reason to vote for a change?

If you find that argument unacceptable, then why are you making it?
06-03-2020 02:29 PM
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Rice93 Offline
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Post: #365
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(06-03-2020 02:29 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 12:55 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 12:42 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 12:15 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 11:35 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  I don't read that into what he said, either. He didn't even mention the GOP.

The basic choice is one of two parties. When one says "The Democrats haven't handled this issue well. They should be voted out." the implication is that the GOP would handle the issue better. He didn't have to mention the GOP by name.

Quote:Well, they're in charge. The police there are their employees. If they aren't responsible for police conduct and accountability, then who is? If people living in Minneapolis want things to change, doesn't it make sense to vote for a change in leadership?

Remember this next time you're blaming a Republican president for this or that action by the federal government.

I have a hard time ascribing these "excessive use of force" issues in the Minnesota police force to the platform of the Democratic party.

Nobody's doing that. The Minneapolis police issues are being ascribed to the people in charge of Minneapolis. As it happens, those people are Democrats.

Are you arguing that because they are Democrats, they should be excused by the voters instead of voted out of office? If not, then just what is your point?

Quote:I have an even harder time figuring out how GOP policies would improve this situation.

Do you have a hard time believing that a change in leadership would improve the situation? If you do, then why hold any politician of either party accountable for anything? If the incumbents in Minneapolis run for re-election, then how - pray tell - can the voters change the leadership, except by voting for their opponents?

There are certain issues that I think are easier to pin responsibility on the current party in charge than others. There are plenty of issues that the Democrats fumble and I'd agree that voting against them on that basis makes sense. This simply isn't one of those IMO.

Taking a snapshot of the country right now... things are pretty damn bleak. Are you going to assign blame to the Republicans who have been in charge for the past 3 1/2 years for our current situation?

Credit - and blame - to each where it is due.

That's what "nuance" means in this context.

You're using nuance as a smokescreen - because the current leadership of the Minneapolis police aren't entirely responsible, you say voters shouldn't hold them at all responsible.

By this do you mean the senior leaders in the police department or do you mean the Governor of Minnesota and the Mayor of Minneapolis?

Quote:Do you think Biden will do a better job than Trump of addressing the issues behind the riots? If you do, would you accept an argument that because the problems are nuanced there's no reason to vote for a change?

In that he will not stoke the flames of racial division like Trump does... yes, I believe that Biden would do a better job of addressing this specific problem.
06-03-2020 02:47 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #366
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(06-03-2020 02:47 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 02:29 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 12:55 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 12:42 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 12:15 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  The basic choice is one of two parties. When one says "The Democrats haven't handled this issue well. They should be voted out." the implication is that the GOP would handle the issue better. He didn't have to mention the GOP by name.


I have a hard time ascribing these "excessive use of force" issues in the Minnesota police force to the platform of the Democratic party.

Nobody's doing that. The Minneapolis police issues are being ascribed to the people in charge of Minneapolis. As it happens, those people are Democrats.

Are you arguing that because they are Democrats, they should be excused by the voters instead of voted out of office? If not, then just what is your point?

Quote:I have an even harder time figuring out how GOP policies would improve this situation.

Do you have a hard time believing that a change in leadership would improve the situation? If you do, then why hold any politician of either party accountable for anything? If the incumbents in Minneapolis run for re-election, then how - pray tell - can the voters change the leadership, except by voting for their opponents?

There are certain issues that I think are easier to pin responsibility on the current party in charge than others. There are plenty of issues that the Democrats fumble and I'd agree that voting against them on that basis makes sense. This simply isn't one of those IMO.

Taking a snapshot of the country right now... things are pretty damn bleak. Are you going to assign blame to the Republicans who have been in charge for the past 3 1/2 years for our current situation?

Credit - and blame - to each where it is due.

That's what "nuance" means in this context.

You're using nuance as a smokescreen - because the current leadership of the Minneapolis police aren't entirely responsible, you say voters shouldn't hold them at all responsible.

By this do you mean the senior leaders in the police department or do you mean the Governor of Minnesota and the Mayor of Minneapolis?

Quote:Do you think Biden will do a better job than Trump of addressing the issues behind the riots? If you do, would you accept an argument that because the problems are nuanced there's no reason to vote for a change?

In that he will not stoke the flames of racial division like Trump does... yes, I believe that Biden would do a better job of addressing this specific problem.

The reason that to you believe to your core that Trump undoubtedly 'stokes the flames of racial division' is because......

Sorry, your Vox level issuance of fact and Vox level of mindless rhetoric there simply doesnt do it. Again, nice, angry, hurt cry -- but even that *and* tapping to your ruby slippers together three times doesnt make it an absolute fact for anyone or everyone (that is, except anyone with that 'D' that defines them as a person)

Parroting an opinion like you do in that sentence is.... well..... parroting an opinion. Bummer. Maybe you might want to brush up between rhetorical opinion and fact next time.
06-03-2020 03:03 PM
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Frizzy Owl Offline
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Post: #367
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(06-03-2020 02:47 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 02:29 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 12:55 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 12:42 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 12:15 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  The basic choice is one of two parties. When one says "The Democrats haven't handled this issue well. They should be voted out." the implication is that the GOP would handle the issue better. He didn't have to mention the GOP by name.


I have a hard time ascribing these "excessive use of force" issues in the Minnesota police force to the platform of the Democratic party.

Nobody's doing that. The Minneapolis police issues are being ascribed to the people in charge of Minneapolis. As it happens, those people are Democrats.

Are you arguing that because they are Democrats, they should be excused by the voters instead of voted out of office? If not, then just what is your point?

Quote:I have an even harder time figuring out how GOP policies would improve this situation.

Do you have a hard time believing that a change in leadership would improve the situation? If you do, then why hold any politician of either party accountable for anything? If the incumbents in Minneapolis run for re-election, then how - pray tell - can the voters change the leadership, except by voting for their opponents?

There are certain issues that I think are easier to pin responsibility on the current party in charge than others. There are plenty of issues that the Democrats fumble and I'd agree that voting against them on that basis makes sense. This simply isn't one of those IMO.

Taking a snapshot of the country right now... things are pretty damn bleak. Are you going to assign blame to the Republicans who have been in charge for the past 3 1/2 years for our current situation?

Credit - and blame - to each where it is due.

That's what "nuance" means in this context.

You're using nuance as a smokescreen - because the current leadership of the Minneapolis police aren't entirely responsible, you say voters shouldn't hold them at all responsible.

By this do you mean the senior leaders in the police department or do you mean the Governor of Minnesota and the Mayor of Minneapolis?

Deliberate obtuseness is the most annoying of stall tactics.
06-03-2020 03:05 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #368
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(06-03-2020 03:05 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 02:47 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 02:29 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 12:55 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 12:42 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Nobody's doing that. The Minneapolis police issues are being ascribed to the people in charge of Minneapolis. As it happens, those people are Democrats.

Are you arguing that because they are Democrats, they should be excused by the voters instead of voted out of office? If not, then just what is your point?


Do you have a hard time believing that a change in leadership would improve the situation? If you do, then why hold any politician of either party accountable for anything? If the incumbents in Minneapolis run for re-election, then how - pray tell - can the voters change the leadership, except by voting for their opponents?

There are certain issues that I think are easier to pin responsibility on the current party in charge than others. There are plenty of issues that the Democrats fumble and I'd agree that voting against them on that basis makes sense. This simply isn't one of those IMO.

Taking a snapshot of the country right now... things are pretty damn bleak. Are you going to assign blame to the Republicans who have been in charge for the past 3 1/2 years for our current situation?

Credit - and blame - to each where it is due.

That's what "nuance" means in this context.

You're using nuance as a smokescreen - because the current leadership of the Minneapolis police aren't entirely responsible, you say voters shouldn't hold them at all responsible.

By this do you mean the senior leaders in the police department or do you mean the Governor of Minnesota and the Mayor of Minneapolis?

Deliberate obtuseness is the most annoying of stall tactics.

I think using the word 'nuance' is -- it is what you speak of above, but couched in a 'I know better than you' arrogance, which, at the core, means that the speaker has no fing clue how to respond.
06-03-2020 03:10 PM
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Post: #369
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(06-03-2020 02:47 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  In that he will not stoke the flames of racial division like Trump does...

No, he will stoke them in a different way, a way more acceptable to you and mainline Dems.
06-03-2020 05:54 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #370
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
Reposting this -- the progressives seem strangely reticent on answering this very simple question.

-------------

'Systemic issue' -- are you talking about excessive police force in general, or excessive police force in terms of your cherry picked minorities?

If the problem is with police force with minorities, perhaps a discussion of the issue might bear some fruit. Platitudes and rhetorical constructs like 'systemic issue' shouldnt be a basis for true objective discussion -- so bear in mind when one retreats to that form of construction it will be noted.

So, what exactly underlies the 'systemic issue' that is such a problem? Since the problem is so endemic to be grandiosely called 'systemic' this should be pretty easy to drill down into.

I look forward to a response. But, I dont think I will hold my breath for this....
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2020 06:43 PM by tanqtonic.)
06-03-2020 06:42 PM
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Post: #371
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(06-03-2020 06:42 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Reposting this -- the progressives seem strangely reticent on answering this very simple question.

-------------

'Systemic issue' -- are you talking about excessive police force in general, or excessive police force in terms of your cherry picked minorities?

If the problem is with police force with minorities, perhaps a discussion of the issue might bear some fruit. Platitudes and rhetorical constructs like 'systemic issue' shouldnt be a basis for true objective discussion -- so bear in mind when one retreats to that form of construction it will be noted.

So, what exactly underlies the 'systemic issue' that is such a problem? Since the problem is so endemic to be grandiosely called 'systemic' this should be pretty easy to drill down into.

I look forward to a response. But, I dont think I will hold my breath for this....

Always hard to get a straight answer out of them. probably a result of them being unable to honestly answer in the way they would like to. They are honest, to a certain point.


What is amazing to me is that the systemic racism they believe in is onkly in the police department, but it is present in every police department, at least as soon as a black man is killed.

I wonder why this systemic racism has not be rooted out in all those cities with black mayors and police chiefs. I know that electing and appointing black officials is supposed to help take care of the problem. That is why the Dems are looking for a black female for both VP and SCOTUS.

My own town has had a black police chief - a local man who in the course of 30+ years rose from patrolman to chief. he was appointed. I know of nothing special he did either for or against any subgroup - he just enforced the law. IMO, that is what police are supposed to do. He and I umped Little League together, and our sons played basketball together.

When protesters and cops clash, the cops are just doing their job - protecting the public. The clash does not come from the cops - it comes from the protesters.

I asked the question about why so many problems came from left wing protests and so few from right wing. We have addressed that it is so, but we have not determined why.

I think it is due to a fundamental difference of attitude between left and right. The leftists feel morally empowered to commit violence and mayhem. Anything is justified if it leads to a higher moral plane. The right just wants to be left alone.

Well, that's my opinion - let's go look at TV to see if those thoughts hold up.
06-03-2020 06:59 PM
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Rice93 Offline
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RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(06-03-2020 03:05 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 02:47 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 02:29 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 12:55 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 12:42 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Nobody's doing that. The Minneapolis police issues are being ascribed to the people in charge of Minneapolis. As it happens, those people are Democrats.

Are you arguing that because they are Democrats, they should be excused by the voters instead of voted out of office? If not, then just what is your point?


Do you have a hard time believing that a change in leadership would improve the situation? If you do, then why hold any politician of either party accountable for anything? If the incumbents in Minneapolis run for re-election, then how - pray tell - can the voters change the leadership, except by voting for their opponents?

There are certain issues that I think are easier to pin responsibility on the current party in charge than others. There are plenty of issues that the Democrats fumble and I'd agree that voting against them on that basis makes sense. This simply isn't one of those IMO.

Taking a snapshot of the country right now... things are pretty damn bleak. Are you going to assign blame to the Republicans who have been in charge for the past 3 1/2 years for our current situation?

Credit - and blame - to each where it is due.

That's what "nuance" means in this context.

You're using nuance as a smokescreen - because the current leadership of the Minneapolis police aren't entirely responsible, you say voters shouldn't hold them at all responsible.

By this do you mean the senior leaders in the police department or do you mean the Governor of Minnesota and the Mayor of Minneapolis?

Deliberate obtuseness is the most annoying of stall tactics.

Ummm... I actually wasn't sure what you meant. In terms of elected officials, a previous poster mentioned the governor, the mayor, two senators, a congressman, and a previous DA. None of these people would be included in a list of the leadership of the Minnesota police.

When you said, "because the current leadership of the Minneapolis police aren't entirely responsible, you say voters shouldn't hold them at all responsible" I was confused as to whom you were referring. I'm assuming that voters don't pick the actual leaders of the police department? Maybe the sheriff gets elected? Not sure if the other police leadership would be there due to appointments or seniority?

So some confusion on my part but not deliberate obtuseness.

Also... this is not a live debate. It's an internet forum where we post whenever we feel like it. Not sure why one would feel the need to employ a "stall tactic" here.
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2020 07:23 PM by Rice93.)
06-03-2020 07:22 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #373
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(06-03-2020 07:22 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 03:05 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 02:47 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 02:29 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(06-03-2020 12:55 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  There are certain issues that I think are easier to pin responsibility on the current party in charge than others. There are plenty of issues that the Democrats fumble and I'd agree that voting against them on that basis makes sense. This simply isn't one of those IMO.

Taking a snapshot of the country right now... things are pretty damn bleak. Are you going to assign blame to the Republicans who have been in charge for the past 3 1/2 years for our current situation?

Credit - and blame - to each where it is due.

That's what "nuance" means in this context.

You're using nuance as a smokescreen - because the current leadership of the Minneapolis police aren't entirely responsible, you say voters shouldn't hold them at all responsible.

By this do you mean the senior leaders in the police department or do you mean the Governor of Minnesota and the Mayor of Minneapolis?

Deliberate obtuseness is the most annoying of stall tactics.

Ummm... I actually wasn't sure what you meant. In terms of elected officials, a previous poster mentioned the governor, the mayor, two senators, a congressman, and a previous DA. None of these people would be included in a list of the leadership of the Minnesota police.

When you said, "because the current leadership of the Minneapolis police aren't entirely responsible, you say voters shouldn't hold them at all responsible" I was confused as to whom you were referring. I'm assuming that voters don't pick the actual leaders of the police department? Maybe the sheriff gets elected? Not sure if the other police leadership would be there due to appointments or seniority?

So some confusion on my part but not deliberate obtuseness.

Also... this is not a live debate. It's an internet forum where we post whenever we feel like it. Not sure why one would feel the need to employ a "stall tactic" here.

I guess you are not aware that a city government can fire a police chief, or replace a police chief. And a police chief can fire all those beneath him.

Its not that hard of a concept to wrap one's hands around.

For example, in your neck of the woods the city can fire Art Acevedo. Typically, a mayor can garner enough support from the council to effectuate a firing. In your case, the Cat can get the Houston City council to fire Art.

And, various people in department can fire racist slugs. That is unless the local police union wont let that happen. But, the police union is another fine invention and water carrying group for progressives. So if the union wont allow Sluggo the racist to be fired, you can chalk that one up on the progressives.

Or in another manner, the voters can pressure the AG to file suit an remove a failure police administration. Or the AG can file suit against a PD as a whole for racism under 13 USC 1983 --- violation of civil rights under color of law.

A Governor can pressure the AG to do this, or can attack funding for a PD. Remember that is what ol' Rick Perry did to Austin and the local DA.

A legislature can limit state funds.

Now that we have the basic course in civics, and hiring, and firing down pat, the voters of a state/county/city can absolutely can hold their own officials responsible for racist actions of a PD.

All of these things can be done at those levels. Note that the President of the United States doesnt have that vote power, though. You know, the position you hold accountable for Chauvin.

And again, I would love to hear your detailed thoughts on the 'systemic issue' you speak so eloquently about. I am beginning to think it is myna bird repeating of a line.
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2020 08:13 PM by tanqtonic.)
06-03-2020 08:12 PM
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RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(06-06-2020 07:35 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(06-06-2020 07:20 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(06-06-2020 07:17 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Perhaps you missed the effect of the action: "These comments are disgusting and have no place in the Republican Party or in public discourse," Abbott spokesman John Wittman said in a statement Thursday morning.

How about this effect: Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick on Friday morning denounced Nielsen's post and said he "should withdraw immediately from any further consideration as county chair."

Or this: U.S. Rep. Dan Crenshaw, a Houston Republican, said in a statement to the Tribune that "Nielsen has no place in our party. Not now. Not ever" — and called his post "a sad reminder that such blatant ignorance and bigotry still exists."
Or perhaps you missed what the Republicans did to Rep. King just a short while back: they primaried him out of office.

Maybe not this: Republican Texas Land Commissioner George P. Bush late Thursday said all four county leaders should step down. "I have said it before and I will say it again now: the GOP must not tolerate racism. Of any kind. At any time," he said in a Tweet.

Maybe not this either: Wittman told The Texas Tribune that the governor also wanted to Kaelin to step aside.
"Spreading conspiracy theories that the murder was staged simply defies reality; it is irresponsible, and unbecoming of anyone who holds a position in the GOP," Wittman said in a statement.

Obviously not this: Abbott's call for Brehm to resign earlier Thursday prompted a swift succession of condemnation. Shortly after Wittman's statement, U.S. Sen. John Cornyn's campaign said he believes Brehm should resign as well. Similar resignation calls came Thursday afternoon from Texas GOP Chairman James Dickey, U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz, Patrick and Texas House Speaker Dennis Bonnen. Dickey said in a statement that he had "personally reached out" to Brehm to ask her to step down.

Not this either: At least one San Antonio Republican, former Texas House Speaker Joe Straus, acknowledged that Brehm has a "long history of making racist and inflammatory statements, peddling conspiracy theories, and bringing embarrassment upon Bexar County Republicans." He said in a statement it was "well past time for her to resign."

God this is getting boring thinking of a new tagline: Garcia's tweet prompted U.S. Rep. Chip Roy, R-Austin, whose district includes Bexar County, to call for Brehm to step down immediately. The other Republican who represents Bexar County in the U.S. House, Rep. Will Hurd of Helotes, said he agreed Brehm should resign after Abbott's call Thursday.

Annndd, one other: State Sen. Donna Campbell, R-New Braunfels, who represents Bexar County as well, also pressured Brehm to resign Thursday afternoon. So did another GOP state senator whose district includes Bexar County, Sen. Pete Flores of Pleasanton.

Funny you didnt mention those in your pendantic rant. They were all there in that article alone, mind you.

And democratic leaders/activists have said similar things regarding the looting and violence present at some of these protests.

So I’m glad you made my point for me. Have some ******* self-awareness when trying to say that the looters are indicative of progressives.

Looks like the Texas GOP is going to spend a lot of time repudiating their own leaders. The list is growing.



This one is a real beauty. From the Harris County GOP chair-elect. In 2020.


06-06-2020 10:25 AM
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RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
Quote:It took President Donald Trump several hours to agree to delete his Sunday-morning tweet featuring a video in which a supporter of his chanted "white power," The Washington Post reported Tuesday.

The president decided to take down his offensive message, in which he praised his supporters in the video, only after the Republican Party's sole Black senator, Tim Scott of South Carolina, publicly called the tweet "indefensible," The Post said.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-ag...-so-2020-6

Quote:Senior staffers quickly conferred over the phone and then began trying to reach the president to convey their concerns about the tweet. White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany, son-in-law Jared Kushner and other senior advisers spoke with president, said several people familiar with the discussions, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to share details of private conversations.

Roughly three hours later, the president gave the go-ahead to delete his incendiary tweet — moved, in large part, by the public calls from Sen. Tim Scott of South Carolina, the Senate’s only black Republican, to do just that, aides said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/...story.html
06-30-2020 12:38 PM
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RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(06-06-2020 07:35 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Looks like the Texas GOP is going to spend a lot of time repudiating their own leaders. The list is growing.

This one is a real beauty. From the Harris County GOP chair-elect. In 2020.

I wouldn't call county chairs party leaders. They are pretty far down the totem pole and usually it's some kind of good ole boy/good ole girl situation, with little or no significant meaning.

That being said, every one of those should be disciplined and replaced in order to say this won't cut it.

One problem i have with republicans is that they are way too undisciplined. Democrats are singularly focused on an objective or set of objectives that I abhor, but they are motivated and focused and disciplined. They don't always win, but against an opposition party that isn't motivated and focused and disciplined, they're going to win most of the time. Aside from abortion (which IMO is a stupid issue to coalesce around) I don't see republicans as motivated or focused or disciplined.

The last time I saw republicans motivated and focused and disciplined was Newt's Contract in 1994. Newt picked a bunch of issues that polled well, and told republicans to stay on message, period. They did. Some of their interviews sounded like Debbie Wassermann-Schultz, the way they changed the subject whenever asked in an interview about something not on script. The result was probably their biggest electoral victory ever. Unfortunately, Newt was a great idea person but he couldn't lead a sex addict to a whorehouse, and as soon as they got into power it was back to herding cats. His successors have been similarly unable to lead, and the party has floundered. One plurality in 6 presidential elections over 25 years (GWB in 2004), and lost both houses of congress in 2006 and have struggled to hold onto one since then.

I'm sorry, but I just don't think republicans take the craft of politics as seriously as do democrats. The answer may have been supplied unwittingly by a leftist friend who said, "If conservatives lose an election, life goes on. If democrats lose an election, that's all we've got." I'm ready for republicans to put that kind of singular importance on winning elections.

Republicans, I'm counting on you to protect me from the Alinsky socialist/communist radical democrats, and you are doing a horsecrap job. I'm ready for you to start taking it seriously. Winning elections is what it's about, and you need to get your act together.
06-30-2020 03:12 PM
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Post: #377
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
Quote:The top writer for Fox News host Tucker Carlson has for years been using a pseudonym to post bigoted remarks on an online forum that is a hotbed for racist, sexist, and other offensive content, CNN Business learned this week.

Just this week, the writer, Blake Neff, responded to a thread started by another user in 2018 with the subject line, "Would u let a JET BLACK congo n****er do lasik eye surgery on u for 50% off?" Neff wrote, "I wouldn't get LASIK from an Asian for free, so no." (The subject line was not censored on the forum.) On June 5, Neff wrote, "Black doods staying inside playing Call of Duty is probably one of the biggest factors keeping crime down." On June 24, Neff commented, "Honestly given how tired black people always claim to be, maybe the real crisis is their lack of sleep." On June 26, Neff wrote that the only people who care about changing the name of the NFL's Washington Redskins are "white libs and their university-'educated' pets."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/media/tuc...index.html
07-10-2020 10:59 PM
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Post: #378
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(07-10-2020 10:59 PM)At Ease Wrote:  
Quote:The top writer for Fox News host Tucker Carlson has for years been using a pseudonym to post bigoted remarks on an online forum that is a hotbed for racist, sexist, and other offensive content, CNN Business learned this week.

Just this week, the writer, Blake Neff, responded to a thread started by another user in 2018 with the subject line, "Would u let a JET BLACK congo n****er do lasik eye surgery on u for 50% off?" Neff wrote, "I wouldn't get LASIK from an Asian for free, so no." (The subject line was not censored on the forum.) On June 5, Neff wrote, "Black doods staying inside playing Call of Duty is probably one of the biggest factors keeping crime down." On June 24, Neff commented, "Honestly given how tired black people always claim to be, maybe the real crisis is their lack of sleep." On June 26, Neff wrote that the only people who care about changing the name of the NFL's Washington Redskins are "white libs and their university-'educated' pets."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/media/tuc...index.html

I’m sure Tucker is completely shocked that his head writer is a racist. No way he could’ve seen that one coming.
07-11-2020 10:14 AM
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Post: #379
RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
Republicans need to purge racists actively and return to being the Party of Lincoln. Being opposed by 95% of Blacks and other minorities will ultimately sink their ship politically. And what's really stupid about it is that they have a tremendous opportunity to offer minorities a much better deal than the democrat welfare plantation. A platform that addresses the following 1) is consistent with conservative/libertarian philosophy (individual elements have been proposed by conservatives/libertarians), and 2) should be able to generate significant support from Blacks and other minorities:

- Blacks and Hispanics tend to be fairly conservative religiously (more conservative than I am) which should generate some sympathy for republicans
- Concurrently with the implementation of the Great Society, the Black family (which was much stronger than the white family in my youth) has deteriorated to the point that 70+% of Black children grow up in fatherless homes
- The "poverty trap" nature of the current welfare system produces a situation where from about $15,000 (poverty) to $55,000 (middle class) of earned income, a family of 3 or 4 loses a dollar to taxes and lost benefits for every incremental dollar they earn, presenting a formidable barrier to climbing out of poverty; a universal basic income (UBI) approach would address this
- Inner-city schools, with predominantly Black and other minority students, are fairly consistently horrible, and the left's solution of throwing ever more money at failing schools has only produced greater failure, so that vouchers or some other method of school choice presents a huge opportunity to fix one major problem
- The rate of prosecution and conviction for minor drug offenses in spectacularly higher for Blacks than for whites, so that legalization and taxing of marijuana and decriminalization of other drugs would be a huge step toward equalizing results under our legal system
- Enterprise zones and other approaches to foster economic development in poorer areas would create tremendous opportunities for Blacks and other minorities

But first republicans have to get rid of the (relatively few) racist followers, by whose brush opponents try to paint them all. Tell them shut up or get out and make it stick.
(This post was last modified: 07-11-2020 11:25 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
07-11-2020 11:24 AM
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RE: Why do all these racists keep joining the GOP?
(07-10-2020 10:59 PM)At Ease Wrote:  
Quote:The top writer for Fox News host Tucker Carlson has for years been using a pseudonym to post bigoted remarks on an online forum that is a hotbed for racist, sexist, and other offensive content, CNN Business learned this week.

Just this week, the writer, Blake Neff, responded to a thread started by another user in 2018 with the subject line, "Would u let a JET BLACK congo n****er do lasik eye surgery on u for 50% off?" Neff wrote, "I wouldn't get LASIK from an Asian for free, so no." (The subject line was not censored on the forum.) On June 5, Neff wrote, "Black doods staying inside playing Call of Duty is probably one of the biggest factors keeping crime down." On June 24, Neff commented, "Honestly given how tired black people always claim to be, maybe the real crisis is their lack of sleep." On June 26, Neff wrote that the only people who care about changing the name of the NFL's Washington Redskins are "white libs and their university-'educated' pets."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/media/tuc...index.html

We all know that Trump is a big fan of Tucker Carlson's show. Frightening that this guy may have been helping shape the opinions of the President of the United States.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/12817...51810.html
07-11-2020 02:47 PM
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