The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(09-15-2018 08:52 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  Yes. We are all crybabies. Silly of us to expect not to start the season 0-4 and get blown out by liberty

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It's perfectly alright to cry about that. I'm talking about those who, after every loss, want to cry about not having a practice facility, not having FBS caliber coaches, not having an adequate capacity football stadium, not having leaders with a vision, not having the resources, poor recruiting etc.

Every time we suffer a loss in any sport, Wood Selig has to go, the Coach has to go, we need new leadership, I'm withdrawing my donations. I'm not renewing my season tickets ……………………

Look, root for your team the way you want. I'm just making an observation. The crying has increased from 2017.

Last year we lost at North Texas 38-45. This year UNT will likely go 13-0 and ODU will go 1-11.

(09-15-2018 10:25 PM)Sirloin Burger Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 08:52 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  Yes. We are all crybabies. Silly of us to expect not to start the season 0-4 and get blown out by liberty

Sent from my SM-G930V using CSNbbs mobile app

It's perfectly alright to cry about that. I'm talking about those who, after every loss, want to cry about not having a practice facility, not having FBS caliber coaches, not having an adequate capacity football stadium, not having leaders with a vision, not having the resources, poor recruiting etc.

Every time we suffer a loss in any sport, Wood Selig has to go, the Coach has to go, we need new leadership, I'm withdrawing my donations. I'm not renewing my season tickets ……………………

Look, root for your team the way you want. I'm just making an observation. The crying has increased from 2017.

Perhaps....not from this keyboard though. I've never stated such things. Haven't been on the fire anyone train until just recently. But these kind of results can be hugely damaging to our athletic department. We've already lost an entire generation and a half of students and it's only getting worse. This will hurt us for years to come if something doesn't change.

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(09-15-2018 10:25 PM)Sirloin Burger Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 08:52 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  Yes. We are all crybabies. Silly of us to expect not to start the season 0-4 and get blown out by liberty

Sent from my SM-G930V using CSNbbs mobile app

It's perfectly alright to cry about that. I'm talking about those who, after every loss, want to cry about not having a practice facility, not having FBS caliber coaches, not having an adequate capacity football stadium, not having leaders with a vision, not having the resources, poor recruiting etc.

Every time we suffer a loss in any sport, Wood Selig has to go, the Coach has to go, we need new leadership, I'm withdrawing my donations. I'm not renewing my season tickets ……………………

Look, root for your team the way you want. I'm just making an observation. The crying has increased from 2017.

Hey we won in soccer tonight at New Mexico. But Wood still has to go, we do need new leadership, I've already withheld my donations and have not purchased season tickets.

I know Im probably the last person you want to here from but here it goes.

People including myself have been telling you that ODU is about to take a hit on the CUSA board for a few years now. Your recruiting and rankings have been a miserable failure the past 3 years, in 2018: CUSA 13, Overall Class Rank 128, 2017: CUSA 13, Overall Class Rank 124, 2016: CUSA 12, Overall Class Rank 120.

Your downfall started in 2015, you just didn't know it because Ray Lowry mask some of your inefficiencies. Mainly not having a true IA QB talent on the team. Shuler Bentley, David Washington nor Zach Pascal were not IA starters and most on other schools could see that.

Then what does your staff do, they go out and recruit another QB hard that has no offers what-so-ever. Wilder got lucky with Heineke, usually when you see a player with no offers or even little interest from other schools, there is a reason, they most likely aren't that good. Those kids are usually saved for low IAA or DII, or a preferred walk-on spot that may end up being a player.

With that said the one big glaring problem I see is you have all coaches on your staff and no teachers or instructors to help players progress and become better.

(09-15-2018 10:55 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 10:25 PM)Sirloin Burger Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 08:52 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  Yes. We are all crybabies. Silly of us to expect not to start the season 0-4 and get blown out by liberty

Sent from my SM-G930V using CSNbbs mobile app

It's perfectly alright to cry about that. I'm talking about those who, after every loss, want to cry about not having a practice facility, not having FBS caliber coaches, not having an adequate capacity football stadium, not having leaders with a vision, not having the resources, poor recruiting etc.

Every time we suffer a loss in any sport, Wood Selig has to go, the Coach has to go, we need new leadership, I'm withdrawing my donations. I'm not renewing my season tickets ……………………

Look, root for your team the way you want. I'm just making an observation. The crying has increased from 2017.

Perhaps....not from this keyboard though. I've never stated such things. Haven't been on the fire anyone train until just recently. But these kind of results can be hugely damaging to our athletic department. We've already lost an entire generation and a half of students and it's only getting worse. This will hurt us for years to come if something doesn't change.

Sent from my SM-G930V using CSNbbs mobile app

You kind of proved his point.

Posted from mobile device. Hopefully it's coherent.

(09-16-2018 01:32 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 10:55 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 10:25 PM)Sirloin Burger Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 08:52 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  Yes. We are all crybabies. Silly of us to expect not to start the season 0-4 and get blown out by liberty

Sent from my SM-G930V using CSNbbs mobile app

It's perfectly alright to cry about that. I'm talking about those who, after every loss, want to cry about not having a practice facility, not having FBS caliber coaches, not having an adequate capacity football stadium, not having leaders with a vision, not having the resources, poor recruiting etc.

Every time we suffer a loss in any sport, Wood Selig has to go, the Coach has to go, we need new leadership, I'm withdrawing my donations. I'm not renewing my season tickets ……………………

Look, root for your team the way you want. I'm just making an observation. The crying has increased from 2017.

Perhaps....not from this keyboard though. I've never stated such things. Haven't been on the fire anyone train until just recently. But these kind of results can be hugely damaging to our athletic department. We've already lost an entire generation and a half of students and it's only getting worse. This will hurt us for years to come if something doesn't change.

Sent from my SM-G930V using CSNbbs mobile app

You kind of proved his point.

Posted from mobile device. Hopefully it's coherent.

I suppose....I guess my greater point is that at this stage I dont consider it being a crybaby.

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(09-16-2018 01:09 AM)HerdZoned Wrote:  I know Im probably the last person you want to here from but here it goes.

People including myself have been telling you that ODU is about to take a hit on the CUSA board for a few years now. Your recruiting and rankings have been a miserable failure the past 3 years, in 2018: CUSA 13, Overall Class Rank 128, 2017: CUSA 13, Overall Class Rank 124, 2016: CUSA 12, Overall Class Rank 120.

Your downfall started in 2015, you just didn't know it because Ray Lowry mask some of your inefficiencies. Mainly not having a true IA QB talent on the team. Shuler Bentley, David Washington nor Zach Pascal were not IA starters and most on other schools could see that.

Then what does your staff do, they go out and recruit another QB hard that has no offers what-so-ever. Wilder got lucky with Heineke, usually when you see a player with no offers or even little interest from other schools, there is a reason, they most likely aren't that good. Those kids are usually saved for low IAA or DII, or a preferred walk-on spot that may end up being a player.

With that said the one big glaring problem I see is you have all coaches on your staff and no teachers or instructors to help players progress and become better.

No doubt recruiting has to improve, especially at the QB position. But thst doesn't fully explain why we are so awful this year with basically the same players that we had last year.

(09-16-2018 06:45 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(09-16-2018 01:09 AM)HerdZoned Wrote:  I know Im probably the last person you want to here from but here it goes.

People including myself have been telling you that ODU is about to take a hit on the CUSA board for a few years now. Your recruiting and rankings have been a miserable failure the past 3 years, in 2018: CUSA 13, Overall Class Rank 128, 2017: CUSA 13, Overall Class Rank 124, 2016: CUSA 12, Overall Class Rank 120.

Your downfall started in 2015, you just didn't know it because Ray Lowry mask some of your inefficiencies. Mainly not having a true IA QB talent on the team. Shuler Bentley, David Washington nor Zach Pascal were not IA starters and most on other schools could see that.

Then what does your staff do, they go out and recruit another QB hard that has no offers what-so-ever. Wilder got lucky with Heineke, usually when you see a player with no offers or even little interest from other schools, there is a reason, they most likely aren't that good. Those kids are usually saved for low IAA or DII, or a preferred walk-on spot that may end up being a player.

With that said the one big glaring problem I see is you have all coaches on your staff and no teachers or instructors to help players progress and become better.

No doubt recruiting has to improve, especially at the QB position. But thst doesn't fully explain why we are so awful this year with basically the same players that we had last year.

Because everyone else around us is improving. If we aren't improving, we are falling behind.

You're either moving forward or you're backing up.

If you ain't first yer' last!

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(09-15-2018 05:54 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(09-15-2018 04:49 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  The irrating and inexplicable portion of our team is that we have seen a slow improvement on the defensive side and into FBS. Every year we’ve gotten a little better. Even last year we improved despite the numerous injuries to the secondary. Se returned almost everyone and have an extremely experienced defensive team. Then, somehow our defense fell off despite stellar play from Ximenes and Garner. Im not sure what is going on with the remaining DL and secondary.

Our offense has seen slight improvement from last year (not as much as we expected), but the defense has really let us down. The bend but not break defense wprks well if you get stops in the red zone and create turnovers. We have done neither this year

Since 2014 has given up:

2014 455.5 yds/game 4.7 TDs/game
2015 437.8 yds/game 4.3 TDs/game
2016 383.9 yds/game 3.5 TDs/game
2017 427.5 yds/game 4.1 TDs/game

Not so coincidentally our best FBS defense corresponded with our David Washington/ Ray Lawry offense.

Def ranks

2013-125
2014- 122
2015- 109
2016-80
2017- 77

Our best defense was last year. Your stats arent a good indicator because it ignores several factors like field position, turnovers, plys, etc. .

(09-16-2018 01:09 AM)HerdZoned Wrote:  I know Im probably the last person you want to here from but here it goes.

People including myself have been telling you that ODU is about to take a hit on the CUSA board for a few years now. Your recruiting and rankings have been a miserable failure the past 3 years, in 2018: CUSA 13, Overall Class Rank 128, 2017: CUSA 13, Overall Class Rank 124, 2016: CUSA 12, Overall Class Rank 120.

Your downfall started in 2015, you just didn't know it because Ray Lowry mask some of your inefficiencies. Mainly not having a true IA QB talent on the team. Shuler Bentley, David Washington nor Zach Pascal were not IA starters and most on other schools could see that.

Then what does your staff do, they go out and recruit another QB hard that has no offers what-so-ever. Wilder got lucky with Heineke, usually when you see a player with no offers or even little interest from other schools, there is a reason, they most likely aren't that good. Those kids are usually saved for low IAA or DII, or a preferred walk-on spot that may end up being a player.

With that said the one big glaring problem I see is you have all coaches on your staff and no teachers or instructors to help players progress and become better.

Lawry and Pascal are in the NFL yet werent 1A starters?

Bentley was a highly recruited QB

Williams had a ton of interest after the summer of his junior year. Chose ODU over Temple, NC State, and FAU.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washing...ince-1973/

Arnold was also a highly touted QB.

Thanks for your thoughts, but you have no
Clue what you are talking about here.

ODU Football in crisis. Probably read on here he doesn’t know what he’s talking about though.

https://www.google.com/amp/pilotonline.c...2.amp.html

(09-16-2018 10:24 AM)mac Wrote:  ODU Football in crisis. Probably read on here he doesn’t know what he’s talking about though.

https://www.google.com/amp/pilotonline.c...2.amp.html

Saw that last week. This is definitely a low point in the program.

(09-16-2018 10:34 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(09-16-2018 10:24 AM)mac Wrote:  ODU Football in crisis. Probably read on here he doesn’t know what he’s talking about though.

https://www.google.com/amp/pilotonline.c...2.amp.html

Saw that last week. This is definitely a low point in the program.

(09-16-2018 01:09 AM)HerdZoned Wrote:  Your recruiting and rankings have been a miserable failure the past 3 years, in 2018: CUSA 13, Overall Class Rank 128, 2017: CUSA 13, Overall Class Rank 124, 2016: CUSA 12, Overall Class Rank 120.

Yep. Predictably, based on the above, we are currently ranked 123 by CBSsports. And while ranking can be somewhat subjective, this is right where one would expect, with no end in sight. (We have dropped four places per year per year.)

(09-15-2018 11:56 AM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  ODAF membership has gone from 2825 in 2017 to 2046 as of today.
That is about a 25% drop. Apparently some have already "moved on".

Frightening if accurate.

Season tickets were still available on opening day? Stunning.


Sadly Teel has accurately called it like it is.

Yea, we sucked ass last year too. What's your point?

So, where are we going?

Figures from 247 https://247sports.com/Season/2015-Footba...mRankings/ are not promising at all.

While not an exact science of course, and realizing that there can be exceptions, the recruiting rankings are otherwise a pretty accurate predictor of performance.
Indeed is is almost uncanny most of the time.

Recruiting classes generally start to have a major impact after three seasons, depending on the number of redshirts, injuries, and attrition.
So let's look at ODU. Our best recruiting class was in 2014. It was #2 in CUSA and #77 in the country. (our only foray into the top 100)
The big impact then should have been seen starting in 2016. Indeed it was. Redshirts notwithstanding, we should have peaked last season, but with RL hurt, and no developed QB that was not to be.
OX, RL, Nick Clarke, Harper, Duhart, and Daniel Appouh are from that class. https://247sports.com/college/old-domini...l/Commits/

So, based on the above analysis, what can we look forward to?

2015
Mar 75
FAU 79
LT 82
MTSU 86
USM 87
UNT 94
FIU 100
ODU 110

2016
Mar 51
UAB 71
FAU 89
LT 94
MTSU 96
USM 100
ODU 120

2017
FAU 60
usm 74
utsa 75
wku 82
mar 87
mtsu 91
Lt 100
ODU 124

2018
FIU 67
Mar 74
FAU 75
LT 77
wku 83
usm 84
utsa 85
ODU 128

We are now seeing the impact of the class of 2015. (with less than a handful of ranked redshirt holdovers from 2014.)
Our performance so far this season would seem to support the rankings.
Granted there can be exceptions, diamonds-in-the-rough, etc.
However, going forward, the prognosis for our program through 2020 is, IMO, very, very bleak

Great analysis. So if facilities are not that relevant as some suggest* how would you account for such dismal recruiting? Is it primarily a reflection of an incompetent staff?

* not saying I buy this argument, especially after seeing Liberty's facilities/ If I were a Muslim I'd play there.

I know the final numbers are not in, but it looks on paper like 2019 class should be a huge improvement. Again, promise of new facilities?

(09-16-2018 03:43 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Great analysis. So if facilities are not that relevant as some suggest* how would you account for such dismal recruiting? Is it primarily a reflection of an incompetent staff?

* not saying I buy this argument, especially after seeing Liberty's facilities/ If I were a Muslim I'd play there.

I know the final numbers are not in, but it looks on paper like 2019 class should be a huge improvement. Again, promise of new facilities?

Facilities are very relevant.
However, our facilities overall are excellent.
The stadium is old but otherwise loud and looks bigger than it is. The home team locker room is just fine.
IMHO, the stadium is not even remotely the issue (and yes I have changed my position on this).

2019 (nationally 77 CUSA 3) is indeed promising, and maybe it is because of the promise of a new stadium. Who knows? The classes of 2017 and 2018 were going to see a new stadium as well.
Let's hope we can keep them all.