This seems to somewhat fit this thread. North Alabama(recent DI moveup) came to Fargo last week to face NDSU. At least on the football side of things, UNA seems to be doing all the right things. One reason they accepted the money game was to take a look at how NDSU had done it and have meetings with NDSU staff to pick their brains. Overall, the folks from UNA impressed the NDSU folks and vice versa.

So the local fishwrap called around to the major DII football powers to see where they were on helping to replace the quality FCS programs the subdivision has lost over the last decade(Georgia Southern, App State, Old Dominion, CCU, etc.) The answers received don't help DavidSt.

http://www.inforum.com/sports/football/4...ivision-ii

Quote:Calls to athletic directors at perennial Division II contenders yielded the same answer when asked the question, "Are you considering moving up to FCS?"

We'll let Grand Valley State's Keri Becker summarize for the group: "The short answer, to make this simple, is no."

Grand Valley State (Mich.), Northwest Missouri State, Minnesota State-Mankato, Minnesota-Duluth, Valdosta (Ga.) State, Colorado State-Pueblo and Pittsburg (Kan.) have all won national championships or finished runner-up since 2010. Some of the schools won multiple titles going back to 2000. None of them, according to their ADs, have any interest in exploring FCS.

(09-20-2018 03:33 PM)Hammersmith Wrote:  This seems to somewhat fit this thread. North Alabama(recent DI moveup) came to Fargo last week to face NDSU. At least on the football side of things, UNA seems to be doing all the right things. One reason they accepted the money game was to take a look at how NDSU had done it and have meetings with NDSU staff to pick their brains. Overall, the folks from UNA impressed the NDSU folks and vice versa.

So the local fishwrap called around to the major DII football powers to see where they were on helping to replace the quality FCS programs the subdivision has lost over the last decade(Georgia Southern, App State, Old Dominion, CCU, etc.) The answers received don't help DavidSt.

http://www.inforum.com/sports/football/4...ivision-ii

Quote:Calls to athletic directors at perennial Division II contenders yielded the same answer when asked the question, "Are you considering moving up to FCS?"

We'll let Grand Valley State's Keri Becker summarize for the group: "The short answer, to make this simple, is no."

Grand Valley State (Mich.), Northwest Missouri State, Minnesota State-Mankato, Minnesota-Duluth, Valdosta (Ga.) State, Colorado State-Pueblo and Pittsburg (Kan.) have all won national championships or finished runner-up since 2010. Some of the schools won multiple titles going back to 2000. None of them, according to their ADs, have any interest in exploring FCS.

Remember, Northern Kentucky said no as well, but when the money was right for them to join? They said yes. It have to be a right fit for D2 schools to move. Grand Valley State said no, because there are no football schools in Michigan to move. I think Wayne State might make the jump to Horizon, and could put football in the MVFC. They have like 30,000 students which could support D1 sports.

(09-20-2018 03:33 PM)Hammersmith Wrote:  This seems to somewhat fit this thread. North Alabama(recent DI moveup) came to Fargo last week to face NDSU. At least on the football side of things, UNA seems to be doing all the right things. One reason they accepted the money game was to take a look at how NDSU had done it and have meetings with NDSU staff to pick their brains. Overall, the folks from UNA impressed the NDSU folks and vice versa.

So the local fishwrap called around to the major DII football powers to see where they were on helping to replace the quality FCS programs the subdivision has lost over the last decade(Georgia Southern, App State, Old Dominion, CCU, etc.) The answers received don't help DavidSt.

http://www.inforum.com/sports/football/4...ivision-ii

Sorry to be redundant but I feel the entire article needs to be posted just in case anyone has problems with availability to the site. The reasons given in the article echo the reasons I have given on this board when asked about Arkansas Tech going D1.

Quote:McFeely: Don't expect any more Division I FCS help from Division II

North Dakota State head coach Chris Klieman praised North Alabama for making the move from NCAA Division II to the Division I Football Championship Subdivision. He sees it as the division adding a potentially quality program after losing so many in recent years.

"I'm glad they're in FCS," Klieman said after his Bison defeated the first-year Division I Lions 38-7 last weekend at the Fargodome. "We've lost schools. The App States, the Georgia Southerns, the Old Dominions. Some of those schools. I wish more teams would come up. I think our division needs more quality teams."

It's true FCS has seen a drain of top programs since 2014, when powerhouses Appalachian State and Georgia Southern, plus Old Dominion, bolted for the Football Bowl Subdivision. They were followed in 2016 by Coastal Carolina, a playoff regular.

But if FCS followers believe there are going to be more top Division II schools like North Alabama (three titles in the 1990s, runner-up in 2016) making the leap, they needn't hold their breath. And the odd story like Kennesaw (Ga.) State, which started football from scratch a few years ago and is now an annual playoff contender? That might be even more rare.

Calls to athletic directors at perennial Division II contenders yielded the same answer when asked the question, "Are you considering moving up to FCS?"

We'll let Grand Valley State's Keri Becker summarize for the group: "The short answer, to make this simple, is no."

Grand Valley State (Mich.), Northwest Missouri State, Minnesota State-Mankato, Minnesota-Duluth, Valdosta (Ga.) State, Colorado State-Pueblo and Pittsburg (Kan.) have all won national championships or finished runner-up since 2010. Some of the schools won multiple titles going back to 2000. None of them, according to their ADs, have any interest in exploring FCS.

And the only school they've heard that's looking at a move up is Augustana University in Sioux Falls, S.D. The Vikings, it appears, want to move to Division I, but would become a non-scholarship football program like Drake, Butler, Valparaiso and others in the Pioneer League.

"Maybe the conversation we should be having is that there are a number of low-level Division I schools that would love to move back to Division II because they are struggling financially trying to piece things together. But once you make that move up it is awfully hard to go back," Valdosta State's Herb Reinhard said.

Every AD agreed with Reinhard—they are hearing more rumblings about schools wanting to move down from Division I instead of up from Division II.

The reasons for FCS disinterest are many (conference affiliation, gender-equity, etc.) but the overriding one is money. It's just too expensive to expand the football program, plus every other sport.

"We've had great success in football," said Northwest Missouri State's Andy Peterson, whose school has six national titles including 2015 and 2016. "But for us to move up would take such a substantial financial commitment from our university and our community that it is not realistic. I don't believe a regional, public university like ours is in any position to make that jump."

Kevin Buisman of Minnesota State-Mankato, which already offers Division I men's and women's hockey, took it a step farther: "In the present budget environment, we are already finding it difficult to sustain the existing portfolio at a championship level, which is a goal we certainly aspire to for all of our programs."

Jim Johnson of Pittsburg State said NDSU, North Dakota and the South Dakota Division I schools are in different positions within their state hierarchy than the smaller Division II schools they left behind. They are the major universities in their states, not regional schools with smaller donor bases.

"Division I, it's a tough deal," Johnson said. "I think people look at NDSU and the top 10 success stories. But there are about 50 others that aren't success stories."

Josh Berlo at Minnesota-Duluth believes college athletics are generally in a holding pattern, with presidents and ADs waiting to see how the landscape changes in the Power Five conferences like the Big Ten, Southeastern Conference and Atlantic Coast Conference. The Bulldogs have already taken on cost-of-attendance for their men's and women's Division I hockey teams.

"I think there is an amount of uncertainty," Berlo said. "It's kind of wait-and-see right now."

The discussions always circled back to finances and fundraising — and the ongoing cycle of raising money that never seems to be enough and is always ballooning. For salaries. For scholarships. For facilities. For travel. For staff.

"It's so dog-eat-dog in Division I," said Colorado State-Pueblo's Paul Plinske. "You have to have the funding and you have to match it, or grow it, year after year after year. We've sort of conceded the fact our vision is in Division II. That's our model and we're very happy with it."

Maybe the best bet for more high-level programs in FCS comes from within the division itself. If once-powerful schools like Delaware and Montana can regain their former glory and relative newcomers like North Dakota and South Dakota can match their in-state rivals, FCS would be more competitive.

(09-20-2018 06:16 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-20-2018 03:33 PM)Hammersmith Wrote:  This seems to somewhat fit this thread. North Alabama(recent DI moveup) came to Fargo last week to face NDSU. At least on the football side of things, UNA seems to be doing all the right things. One reason they accepted the money game was to take a look at how NDSU had done it and have meetings with NDSU staff to pick their brains. Overall, the folks from UNA impressed the NDSU folks and vice versa.

So the local fishwrap called around to the major DII football powers to see where they were on helping to replace the quality FCS programs the subdivision has lost over the last decade(Georgia Southern, App State, Old Dominion, CCU, etc.) The answers received don't help DavidSt.

http://www.inforum.com/sports/football/4...ivision-ii

Quote:Calls to athletic directors at perennial Division II contenders yielded the same answer when asked the question, "Are you considering moving up to FCS?"

We'll let Grand Valley State's Keri Becker summarize for the group: "The short answer, to make this simple, is no."

Grand Valley State (Mich.), Northwest Missouri State, Minnesota State-Mankato, Minnesota-Duluth, Valdosta (Ga.) State, Colorado State-Pueblo and Pittsburg (Kan.) have all won national championships or finished runner-up since 2010. Some of the schools won multiple titles going back to 2000. None of them, according to their ADs, have any interest in exploring FCS.

Remember, Northern Kentucky said no as well, but when the money was right for them to join? They said yes. It have to be a right fit for D2 schools to move. Grand Valley State said no, because there are no football schools in Michigan to move. I think Wayne State might make the jump to Horizon, and could put football in the MVFC. They have like 30,000 students which could support D1 sports.

Northern Kentucky does not have football therefore this does not relate to them. Are you really trying to tell the Grand Valley State AD she doesn't know what she's talking about when she's talking about her own school?

Quote:We'll let Grand Valley State's Keri Becker summarize for the group: "The short answer, to make this simple, is no."

Wayne State enrollment: 25,184 (15,735 undergraduate)

(09-20-2018 06:19 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(09-20-2018 03:33 PM)Hammersmith Wrote:  This seems to somewhat fit this thread. North Alabama(recent DI moveup) came to Fargo last week to face NDSU. At least on the football side of things, UNA seems to be doing all the right things. One reason they accepted the money game was to take a look at how NDSU had done it and have meetings with NDSU staff to pick their brains. Overall, the folks from UNA impressed the NDSU folks and vice versa.

So the local fishwrap called around to the major DII football powers to see where they were on helping to replace the quality FCS programs the subdivision has lost over the last decade(Georgia Southern, App State, Old Dominion, CCU, etc.) The answers received don't help DavidSt.

http://www.inforum.com/sports/football/4...ivision-ii

Sorry to be redundant but I feel the entire article needs to be posted just in case anyone has problems with availability to the site. The reasons given in the article echo the reasons I have given on this board when asked about Arkansas Tech going D1.

Quote:McFeely: Don't expect any more Division I FCS help from Division II

North Dakota State head coach Chris Klieman praised North Alabama for making the move from NCAA Division II to the Division I Football Championship Subdivision. He sees it as the division adding a potentially quality program after losing so many in recent years.

"I'm glad they're in FCS," Klieman said after his Bison defeated the first-year Division I Lions 38-7 last weekend at the Fargodome. "We've lost schools. The App States, the Georgia Southerns, the Old Dominions. Some of those schools. I wish more teams would come up. I think our division needs more quality teams."

It's true FCS has seen a drain of top programs since 2014, when powerhouses Appalachian State and Georgia Southern, plus Old Dominion, bolted for the Football Bowl Subdivision. They were followed in 2016 by Coastal Carolina, a playoff regular.

But if FCS followers believe there are going to be more top Division II schools like North Alabama (three titles in the 1990s, runner-up in 2016) making the leap, they needn't hold their breath. And the odd story like Kennesaw (Ga.) State, which started football from scratch a few years ago and is now an annual playoff contender? That might be even more rare.

Calls to athletic directors at perennial Division II contenders yielded the same answer when asked the question, "Are you considering moving up to FCS?"

We'll let Grand Valley State's Keri Becker summarize for the group: "The short answer, to make this simple, is no."

Grand Valley State (Mich.), Northwest Missouri State, Minnesota State-Mankato, Minnesota-Duluth, Valdosta (Ga.) State, Colorado State-Pueblo and Pittsburg (Kan.) have all won national championships or finished runner-up since 2010. Some of the schools won multiple titles going back to 2000. None of them, according to their ADs, have any interest in exploring FCS.

And the only school they've heard that's looking at a move up is Augustana University in Sioux Falls, S.D. The Vikings, it appears, want to move to Division I, but would become a non-scholarship football program like Drake, Butler, Valparaiso and others in the Pioneer League.

"Maybe the conversation we should be having is that there are a number of low-level Division I schools that would love to move back to Division II because they are struggling financially trying to piece things together. But once you make that move up it is awfully hard to go back," Valdosta State's Herb Reinhard said.

Every AD agreed with Reinhard—they are hearing more rumblings about schools wanting to move down from Division I instead of up from Division II.

The reasons for FCS disinterest are many (conference affiliation, gender-equity, etc.) but the overriding one is money. It's just too expensive to expand the football program, plus every other sport.

"We've had great success in football," said Northwest Missouri State's Andy Peterson, whose school has six national titles including 2015 and 2016. "But for us to move up would take such a substantial financial commitment from our university and our community that it is not realistic. I don't believe a regional, public university like ours is in any position to make that jump."

Kevin Buisman of Minnesota State-Mankato, which already offers Division I men's and women's hockey, took it a step farther: "In the present budget environment, we are already finding it difficult to sustain the existing portfolio at a championship level, which is a goal we certainly aspire to for all of our programs."

Jim Johnson of Pittsburg State said NDSU, North Dakota and the South Dakota Division I schools are in different positions within their state hierarchy than the smaller Division II schools they left behind. They are the major universities in their states, not regional schools with smaller donor bases.

"Division I, it's a tough deal," Johnson said. "I think people look at NDSU and the top 10 success stories. But there are about 50 others that aren't success stories."

Josh Berlo at Minnesota-Duluth believes college athletics are generally in a holding pattern, with presidents and ADs waiting to see how the landscape changes in the Power Five conferences like the Big Ten, Southeastern Conference and Atlantic Coast Conference. The Bulldogs have already taken on cost-of-attendance for their men's and women's Division I hockey teams.

"I think there is an amount of uncertainty," Berlo said. "It's kind of wait-and-see right now."

The discussions always circled back to finances and fundraising — and the ongoing cycle of raising money that never seems to be enough and is always ballooning. For salaries. For scholarships. For facilities. For travel. For staff.

"It's so dog-eat-dog in Division I," said Colorado State-Pueblo's Paul Plinske. "You have to have the funding and you have to match it, or grow it, year after year after year. We've sort of conceded the fact our vision is in Division II. That's our model and we're very happy with it."

Maybe the best bet for more high-level programs in FCS comes from within the division itself. If once-powerful schools like Delaware and Montana can regain their former glory and relative newcomers like North Dakota and South Dakota can match their in-state rivals, FCS would be more competitive.

There is one mistake in the article. There are 2 schools interested in D1. Tarleton State wants to move up as well.

(09-20-2018 06:32 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  There is one mistake in the article. There are 2 schools interested in D1. Tarleton State wants to move up as well.

Well I guess you can read the minds of the people interviewed for the article.

Quote:And the only school they've heard that's looking at a move up is Augustana University in Sioux Falls, S.D. The Vikings, it appears, want to move to Division I, but would become a non-scholarship football program like Drake, Butler, Valparaiso and others in the Pioneer League.

Examine the possibilities before jumping to conclusions:
1) It might be a mistake.
2) Somehow they all forgot about Tarleton State.
3) Maybe Tarleton State is no longer exploring D1.
or
4) Maybe you are saying they are wrong because the article does not fit your agenda.

Well the ones they called are pretty much D2 perfect schools that have no business moving up other than Grand Valley State. But they don't have a league to join for football.

This thread should be about celebrating another one of DavidSt’s exploits in the realignment era.
https://csnbbs.com/thread-800727.html

Coastal to Sun Belt.
Liberty to FBS Independence.
Gonzaga nearly joining MWC (until WCC sold its soul last minute).
WAC entertaining Tarleton.
Merrimack going D1.

King David calls yet another improbability. Let’s swallow our pride and send our congratulations where it’s due instead of tearing each other down.

(09-20-2018 09:44 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  This thread should be about celebrating another one of DavidSt’s exploits in the realignment era.
https://csnbbs.com/thread-800727.html

Coastal to Sun Belt.
Liberty to FBS Independence.
Gonzaga nearly joining MWC (until WCC sold its soul last minute).
WAC entertaining Tarleton.
Merrimack going D1.

King David calls yet another improbability. Let’s swallow our pride and send our congratulations where it’s due instead of tearing each other down.

In the same thread he says D3 Rowan is possibly D1. Lol. Those "calls" are nothing that another poster who posts about every college could not think of.

Coastal to the Sun Belt? Wow, what other FBS Conference would they go to?
Liberty to Independence? Wow, imagine going FBS because no conference wants you. Did David say the NCAA was specifically going to let FCS programs move up to FBS Indy?
Gonzaga to the MWC? Wow, totally far fetched. Where else would they Go? The Pac12, Big Sky or WAC?
WAC entertaining Tarleton? Wow, imagine a conference barely hanging on, recruiting a school with their current footprint. You don't say?
Merrimack going D1 is as probable as any other large D2 school going to a regional D1 conference

He literally predicts every school to go to a nearby conference. Wow, trail blazer right there!!!!

(09-20-2018 11:08 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(09-20-2018 09:44 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  This thread should be about celebrating another one of DavidSt’s exploits in the realignment era.
https://csnbbs.com/thread-800727.html

Coastal to Sun Belt.
Liberty to FBS Independence.
Gonzaga nearly joining MWC (until WCC sold its soul last minute).
WAC entertaining Tarleton.
Merrimack going D1.

King David calls yet another improbability. Let’s swallow our pride and send our congratulations where it’s due instead of tearing each other down.

In the same thread he says D3 Rowan is possibly D1. Lol. Those "calls" are nothing that another poster who posts about every college could not think of.

Coastal to the Sun Belt? Wow, what other FBS Conference would they go to?
Liberty to Independence? Wow, imagine going FBS because no conference wants you. Did David say the NCAA was specifically going to let FCS programs move up to FBS Indy?
Gonzaga to the MWC? Wow, totally far fetched. Where else would they Go? The Pac12, Big Sky or WAC?
WAC entertaining Tarleton? Wow, imagine a conference barely hanging on, recruiting a school with their current footprint. You don't say?
Merrimack going D1 is as probable as any other large D2 school going to a regional D1 conference

He literally predicts every school to go to a nearby conference. Wow, trail blazer right there!!!!

David has listed almost every school in the country as possible D1. It doesn't matter if the school is a 4-year or a 2-year. Some don't even have any athletics at all. He has also declared the possibility for schools that don't actually exist. So how could he ever possibly be wrong when a school does go D1?

(09-20-2018 11:08 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(09-20-2018 09:44 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  This thread should be about celebrating another one of DavidSt’s exploits in the realignment era.
https://csnbbs.com/thread-800727.html

Coastal to Sun Belt.
Liberty to FBS Independence.
Gonzaga nearly joining MWC (until WCC sold its soul last minute).
WAC entertaining Tarleton.
Merrimack going D1.

King David calls yet another improbability. Let’s swallow our pride and send our congratulations where it’s due instead of tearing each other down.

In the same thread he says D3 Rowan is possibly D1. Lol. Those "calls" are nothing that another poster who posts about every college could not think of.

Coastal to the Sun Belt? Wow, what other FBS Conference would they go to?
Liberty to Independence? Wow, imagine going FBS because no conference wants you. Did David say the NCAA was specifically going to let FCS programs move up to FBS Indy?
Gonzaga to the MWC? Wow, totally far fetched. Where else would they Go? The Pac12, Big Sky or WAC?
WAC entertaining Tarleton? Wow, imagine a conference barely hanging on, recruiting a school with their current footprint. You don't say?
Merrimack going D1 is as probable as any other large D2 school going to a regional D1 conference

He literally predicts every school to go to a nearby conference. Wow, trail blazer right there!!!!

I did not say that. I said they have to be in D2 for 8 years before moving up. Rowan officials said that.

(09-20-2018 09:15 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Well the ones they called are pretty much D2 perfect schools that have no business moving up other than Grand Valley State. But they don't have a league to join for football.

Unless the Horizon League start sponsoring football.
You have Youngstown State.
Cleveland State wants football, but could be in the future.
Milwaukee looked at adding football.
IUPUI school president said they have not ruled out at looking to add football in the future.
Oakland does have a club team which they could make them into a varsity team in the future.
That is 5. Illinois-Chicago with over 30,000 students could look at adding football in the future.
Wayne State have been interested in joining the Horizon in the past. That would be seven teams which could be enough for that conference to sponsor the sport.
Grand Valley State then will have a place to go in D1 for football. They would be number 8.
That would put Horizon up to 12 schools for all sports.
Lindenwood could be football number 9 and Robert Morris as number 10? It would 10/14. The key word is if and when more D1 FCS schools decide to add football.

(09-21-2018 05:05 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-20-2018 09:15 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Well the ones they called are pretty much D2 perfect schools that have no business moving up other than Grand Valley State. But they don't have a league to join for football.

Unless the Horizon League start sponsoring football.
You have Youngstown State.
Cleveland State wants football, but could be in the future.
Milwaukee looked at adding football.
IUPUI school president said they have not ruled out at looking to add football in the future.
Oakland does have a club team which they could make them into a varsity team in the future.
That is 5. Illinois-Chicago with over 30,000 students could look at adding football in the future.
Wayne State have been interested in joining the Horizon in the past. That would be seven teams which could be enough for that conference to sponsor the sport.
Grand Valley State then will have a place to go in D1 for football. They would be number 8.
That would put Horizon up to 12 schools for all sports.
Lindenwood could be football number 9 and Robert Morris as number 10? It would 10/14. The key word is if and when more D1 FCS schools decide to add football.

I really shouldn't engage with this kind of thing, but.....

So long as you're throwing out improbable scenarios, with North Dakota moving the the Summit and MVFC going to 11 as a result, you're infinitely more likely to see the MVFC look to add one more member and go to divisions of 6 apiece than you are to have an entire conference's worth of teams start football from scratch all at once.

Yes, there's been a handful of schools who have contemplated adding FCS or FBS football. Very few have taken that leap because they simply can't afford it.

Most of the time there's also not a clear path because there isn't a conference to park their team in and independence is a rough existence for the little guys.

GA St: added FCS because they were in an FCS conference, ATL market have them the ability to move up
Charlotte: market had a lot to do with ability to get into an FBS conference
ODU: very similar story to GA St's
UTSA & Texas St: WAC welcomed them because they were desperate
USA: already in FBS Sunbelt
WKU: see USA
UMass: moved up w/o a permanent plan, now stuck independent
App St, GA St, Coastal Carolina: we're able to sneak up from FCS due to massive realignment