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Tied with Kentucky and Kansas State.

USNWR just came out.

I didn't subscribe, so can someone tell me why we have dropped so much? Is it 6-year grad rate and acceptance rate (76%)?

Saw that USF shot up to #124 (they were in the 160s just a few years ago).

Didn't UC set a goal of being close to #100 by 2019 at one point?

You mean USNews still actually exists? Who knew?

(09-10-2018 07:38 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  USNWR just came out.

I didn't subscribe, so can someone tell me why we have dropped so much? Is it 6-year grad rate and acceptance rate (76%)?

Saw that USF shot up to #124 (they were in the 160s just a few years ago).

Didn't UC set a goal of being close to #100 by 2019 at one point?

Yes, UC set a goal of being in the top 100 by 2019 then embarked on another goal of increasing enrollment to 48,000 instead of student quality. Part of the 2019 goal was to have an average ACT score of 27 by 2019.

I’ve noticed that schools like Temple, South Florida, NC State, and Florida State have risen quite a bit in recent years. What are they doing that UC is not?

Without examining the data, it's hard to judge whether student quality was the primary driver in this. If so, we should be concerned. I have to believe that both the size of the Uptown physical campus and support structure are effectively maxed out with this year's enrollment. So was the plan to push that to the limit and then begin raising admission standards incrementally again? My hope is UC addresses the issue for alumni and friends.

(09-10-2018 08:14 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 07:38 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  USNWR just came out.

I didn't subscribe, so can someone tell me why we have dropped so much? Is it 6-year grad rate and acceptance rate (76%)?

Saw that USF shot up to #124 (they were in the 160s just a few years ago).

Didn't UC set a goal of being close to #100 by 2019 at one point?

Yes, UC set a goal of being in the top 100 by 2019 then embarked on another goal of increasing enrollment to 48,000 instead of student quality. Part of the 2019 goal was to have an average ACT score of 27 by 2019.

I’ve noticed that schools like Temple, South Florida, NC State, and Florida State have risen quite a bit in recent years. What are they doing that UC is not?

With respect to enrollment, I have never seen a consistent figure published. I see information from the university that says we are at 45K+. but according to this publication (and some others I have seen) we have 26,000 undergrads and 11,000 grad students. Are they not counting part-time or students at Blue-Ash and Clermont? Are we the only school they do this to? Saw that they have Kent State at 28,000 undergrads-- which would mean they are bigger than UC. As someone with relatives at Kent I don't believe they don't have more students at their main campus at all (they do have a lot of students at various branch campuses).

(09-10-2018 08:14 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 07:38 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  USNWR just came out.

I didn't subscribe, so can someone tell me why we have dropped so much? Is it 6-year grad rate and acceptance rate (76%)?

Saw that USF shot up to #124 (they were in the 160s just a few years ago).

Didn't UC set a goal of being close to #100 by 2019 at one point?

Yes, UC set a goal of being in the top 100 by 2019 then embarked on another goal of increasing enrollment to 48,000 instead of student quality. Part of the 2019 goal was to have an average ACT score of 27 by 2019.

I’ve noticed that schools like Temple, South Florida, NC State, and Florida State have risen quite a bit in recent years. What are they doing that UC is not?

Very disappointing, and it's bound to have an adverse impact on any chances UC has for admittance to the AAU. If/when Louisville and West Virginia pass us, the academic game is over. The BOT should put Pinto on notice over this decline.

UC should always stress quality over quantity. Of course, as Josef Stalin once pointed out in response to criticisms that his massive armies were poorly trained and equipped, "Quantity has a quality all its own."

(09-10-2018 08:43 AM)colohank Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 08:14 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 07:38 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  USNWR just came out.

I didn't subscribe, so can someone tell me why we have dropped so much? Is it 6-year grad rate and acceptance rate (76%)?

Saw that USF shot up to #124 (they were in the 160s just a few years ago).

Didn't UC set a goal of being close to #100 by 2019 at one point?

Yes, UC set a goal of being in the top 100 by 2019 then embarked on another goal of increasing enrollment to 48,000 instead of student quality. Part of the 2019 goal was to have an average ACT score of 27 by 2019.

I’ve noticed that schools like Temple, South Florida, NC State, and Florida State have risen quite a bit in recent years. What are they doing that UC is not?

Very disappointing, and it's bound to have an adverse impact on any chances UC has for admittance to the AAU. If/when Louisville and West Virginia pass us, the academic game is over. The BOT should put Pinto on notice over this decline.

UC should always stress quality over quantity. Of course, as Josef Stalin once pointed out in response to criticisms that his massive armies were poorly trained and equipped, "Quantity has a quality all its own."

In fairness to Pinto, this ranking would be due to policies put forward by the Santa Ono and one year Beverley Davenport regimes. Moreover, isn't the BOT who sign off on this stuff to begin with?

(09-10-2018 08:47 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 08:43 AM)colohank Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 08:14 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 07:38 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  USNWR just came out.

I didn't subscribe, so can someone tell me why we have dropped so much? Is it 6-year grad rate and acceptance rate (76%)?

Saw that USF shot up to #124 (they were in the 160s just a few years ago).

Didn't UC set a goal of being close to #100 by 2019 at one point?

Yes, UC set a goal of being in the top 100 by 2019 then embarked on another goal of increasing enrollment to 48,000 instead of student quality. Part of the 2019 goal was to have an average ACT score of 27 by 2019.

I’ve noticed that schools like Temple, South Florida, NC State, and Florida State have risen quite a bit in recent years. What are they doing that UC is not?

Very disappointing, and it's bound to have an adverse impact on any chances UC has for admittance to the AAU. If/when Louisville and West Virginia pass us, the academic game is over. The BOT should put Pinto on notice over this decline.

UC should always stress quality over quantity. Of course, as Josef Stalin once pointed out in response to criticisms that his massive armies were poorly trained and equipped, "Quantity has a quality all its own."

In fairness to Pinto, this ranking would be due to policies put forward by the Santa Ono and one year Beverley Davenport regimes. Moreover, isn't the BOT who sign off on this stuff to begin with?

After about three years of the avg ACT score sitting at 25.9, only this year did it bump up to 26.3. With other schools fighting to rise in the rankings, it’s no surprise UC fell.

In another note, I also noticed that our world ranking dropped significantly elsewhere (can’t remember the name - some Chinese University?).

(09-10-2018 07:53 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  You mean USNews still actually exists? Who knew?

Technically yes. However, it's an online-only publication for most of the year. The only print edition they do now is the college rankings.

I found this out when they interviewed me for an article 2 years ago. Our PR staff was really excited, until I asked the reporter which edition it was being printed in. They told me that it hasn't been printed for years.

It's difficult to compare UC to other schools on this list - just because it's an apples and oranges kind of situation. The amount of funding that USF or NCState receive is most likely drastically different than how UC receives funding.

Our concern is how we rank compared to our aspirant peers and to the rest of the public schools in Ohio. We need to lessen the gap between tO$U and UC (which is difficult, I know), but widen the gap between UC and the rest of the pack. The more we stand out as the clear #2, and a high #2 in the state, the better for the university.

As a side note, it made me happy to see Louisville going down in the rankings. I wish they would have lost this past weekend to Indiana State, too...but alas even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

(09-10-2018 10:37 AM)bearcatseminole Wrote:  It's difficult to compare UC to other schools on this list - just because it's an apples and oranges kind of situation. The amount of funding that USF or NCState receive is most likely drastically different than how UC receives funding.

Our concern is how we rank compared to our aspirant peers and to the rest of the public schools in Ohio. We need to lessen the gap between tO$U and UC (which is difficult, I know), but widen the gap between UC and the rest of the pack. The more we stand out as the clear #2, and a high #2 in the state, the better for the university.

As a side note, it made me happy to see Louisville going down in the rankings. I wish they would have lost this past weekend to Indiana State, too...but alas even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

Rank of the Ohio public schools:

#56 tOSU
#96 Miami
#147 UC
#171 Ohio University (They've dropped even further than we have)
#191 Kent State
#215 Bowling Green State
230-301 Akron, Cleveland State, Toledo and Wright State

Youngtown State, Central State and Shawnee State are not listed in the National University rankings.


Edit: Through a quick search, I found an article from 2 years ago listing the Ohio publics as follows:
#54 tOSU
#79 Miami (so they've dropped a bit)
#135 UC
#146 Ohio (big drop)
#188 Kent State (slight decline)
#194 BGSU (another big decline)

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ss...eases.html

i’m pretty sure Miami tanked more than UC. OU also tanked.

(09-10-2018 08:43 AM)colohank Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 08:14 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 07:38 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  USNWR just came out.

I didn't subscribe, so can someone tell me why we have dropped so much? Is it 6-year grad rate and acceptance rate (76%)?

Saw that USF shot up to #124 (they were in the 160s just a few years ago).

Didn't UC set a goal of being close to #100 by 2019 at one point?

Yes, UC set a goal of being in the top 100 by 2019 then embarked on another goal of increasing enrollment to 48,000 instead of student quality. Part of the 2019 goal was to have an average ACT score of 27 by 2019.

I’ve noticed that schools like Temple, South Florida, NC State, and Florida State have risen quite a bit in recent years. What are they doing that UC is not?

Very disappointing, and it's bound to have an adverse impact on any chances UC has for admittance to the AAU. If/when Louisville and West Virginia pass us, the academic game is over. The BOT should put Pinto on notice over this decline.

UC should always stress quality over quantity. Of course, as Josef Stalin once pointed out in response to criticisms that his massive armies were poorly trained and equipped, "Quantity has a quality all its own."

I kind of doubt some ranking by an essentially defunct, irrelevant news publication that most people have never heard of will have any effect on AAU decisions.

More info on the changes to the methodology:

https://www.insidehighered.com/admission...ity-has-it

New this year in the outcomes section are two social mobility factors that together make up 5 percent of the total ranking. One looks at the graduation rates of Pell Grant recipients, and the other compares Pell-recipient graduation rates to those of all students.

The magazine killed one part of its methodology -- the acceptance rate -- that has long been seen as rewarding colleges for the number of applicants they reject. But this was worth only 1.25 percent of the formula. U.S. News reduced the weight on, but kept in, standardized test scores at 7.75 percent, down from 8.125 percent.

U.S. News also decreased modestly (from 22.5 to 20 percent) "expert opinion," which is based on surveys of college administrators and high school counselors.

--


Thoughts: Acceptance Rate supposedly out. Weight of "Expert opinions" from college administrators and HS counselors decreased. Weight of Standardized tests scored also decreased.

So what happened?

(09-10-2018 01:26 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 08:43 AM)colohank Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 08:14 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 07:38 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  USNWR just came out.

I didn't subscribe, so can someone tell me why we have dropped so much? Is it 6-year grad rate and acceptance rate (76%)?

Saw that USF shot up to #124 (they were in the 160s just a few years ago).

Didn't UC set a goal of being close to #100 by 2019 at one point?

Yes, UC set a goal of being in the top 100 by 2019 then embarked on another goal of increasing enrollment to 48,000 instead of student quality. Part of the 2019 goal was to have an average ACT score of 27 by 2019.

I’ve noticed that schools like Temple, South Florida, NC State, and Florida State have risen quite a bit in recent years. What are they doing that UC is not?

Very disappointing, and it's bound to have an adverse impact on any chances UC has for admittance to the AAU. If/when Louisville and West Virginia pass us, the academic game is over. The BOT should put Pinto on notice over this decline.

UC should always stress quality over quantity. Of course, as Josef Stalin once pointed out in response to criticisms that his massive armies were poorly trained and equipped, "Quantity has a quality all its own."

I kind of doubt some ranking by an essentially defunct, irrelevant news publication that most people have never heard of will have any effect on AAU decisions.

You're right, the AAU folks won't consult the USN&WR rankings. But they will take note of the factors which prompted USN&WR to rank us lower. I take damned little comfort in shooting the messenger or pointing to other institutions and saying we're OK because their declines were even worse than ours.

(09-10-2018 02:15 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  More info on the changes to the methodology:

https://www.insidehighered.com/admission...ity-has-it

New this year in the outcomes section are two social mobility factors that together make up 5 percent of the total ranking. One looks at the graduation rates of Pell Grant recipients, and the other compares Pell-recipient graduation rates to those of all students.

The magazine killed one part of its methodology -- the acceptance rate -- that has long been seen as rewarding colleges for the number of applicants they reject. But this was worth only 1.25 percent of the formula. U.S. News reduced the weight on, but kept in, standardized test scores at 7.75 percent, down from 8.125 percent.

U.S. News also decreased modestly (from 22.5 to 20 percent) "expert opinion," which is based on surveys of college administrators and high school counselors.

--


Thoughts: Acceptance Rate supposedly out. Weight of "Expert opinions" from college administrators and HS counselors decreased. Weight of Standardized tests scored also decreased.

So what happened?

Good question. With those things UC did not rank highly.

(09-10-2018 03:32 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 02:15 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  More info on the changes to the methodology:

https://www.insidehighered.com/admission...ity-has-it

New this year in the outcomes section are two social mobility factors that together make up 5 percent of the total ranking. One looks at the graduation rates of Pell Grant recipients, and the other compares Pell-recipient graduation rates to those of all students.

The magazine killed one part of its methodology -- the acceptance rate -- that has long been seen as rewarding colleges for the number of applicants they reject. But this was worth only 1.25 percent of the formula. U.S. News reduced the weight on, but kept in, standardized test scores at 7.75 percent, down from 8.125 percent.

U.S. News also decreased modestly (from 22.5 to 20 percent) "expert opinion," which is based on surveys of college administrators and high school counselors.

--


Thoughts: Acceptance Rate supposedly out. Weight of "Expert opinions" from college administrators and HS counselors decreased. Weight of Standardized tests scored also decreased.

So what happened?

Good question. With those things UC did not rank highly.

I think the answer is in the first statement of that article linked...Ohio's Pell Grant graduation rate is lower than the national average, and that includes all of the students Ohio State fully funds due to high academic performance. That metric gaining traction and the Expert Opinion area losing significance (which was an area that UC typically performed quite highly) would more than likely cause the type of drop they saw this year. I still can't believe that USNWR uses 4-year graduation rate at all in their measurements, but that's why I, along with most other people working in institutions of Higher Education don't really take the rankings seriously.

(09-10-2018 08:14 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(09-10-2018 07:38 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  USNWR just came out.

I didn't subscribe, so can someone tell me why we have dropped so much? Is it 6-year grad rate and acceptance rate (76%)?

Saw that USF shot up to #124 (they were in the 160s just a few years ago).

Didn't UC set a goal of being close to #100 by 2019 at one point?

Yes, UC set a goal of being in the top 100 by 2019 then embarked on another goal of increasing enrollment to 48,000 instead of student quality. Part of the 2019 goal was to have an average ACT score of 27 by 2019.

I’ve noticed that schools like Temple, South Florida, NC State, and Florida State have risen quite a bit in recent years. What are they doing that UC is not?

No idea about UC in comparison, but at Temple, the student quality has improved significantly in 4 years.

In 2014-2015 the average incoming GPA was 3.47, average SAT was 1124, and average ACT was 25. The acceptance rate was 61.7%

Last year, the average incoming GPA was 3.54, the average SAT was 1223, and the average ACT was 27. The acceptance rate was 56.7%. It was actually down to 52.2% the year before.

When I started at Temple, around a decade ago, the average incoming GPA for freshmen was 3.35 and the average SAT was 1080.

Our numbers now are close to Syracuse's, which is ranked 53rd, and has half the undergrad enrollment we have.

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/wor...cincinnati

World University Rankings out, UC drops from 201-250 last year to 250-300 for 2019.