(09-06-2018 01:54 PM)Statefan Wrote:  The real issue is that FSU, Miami, Clemson, NC State, GT, and VT do NOT want to go to Storrs every other year. There are almost no recruits and there is no silver lining of Boston. It not personal.

Yup. Bad recruiting area and BC's vehemently against having the competition. Totally get why Pitt wound up the compromise school. If the football schools hadn't have had a figurative gun to the ACC's head last go-round maybe UConn would have gotten the last seat, but Louisville was the price of getting FSU/Clemson to sign a GOR. Is what it is.

(09-06-2018 01:52 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 01:43 PM)usffan Wrote:  Say what you want about the flaws in the USNWR methodology

OK, I'll say it: US News' methodology is heavily biased in favor of private schools. If it has any use at all, it's only for comparing private schools to other private schools. It is pointless to use US News to compare private schools to public schools.

OK, on the AAC board, somebody recently posted the Academic Ranking of World Universities, which uses more research spending as a ranking. Completely independent of USNWR.

http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2018.html

Here is the same list of schools ranked by their criteria (with caveats noted below):

Duke - 19
UNC - 22
Ga. Tech - 38
Pitt - 42
UVa - 59-69
NC State - 59-69
FSU - 70-95
Miami - 70-95
VT - 70-95
BC - 96-117
Wake Forest - 501-600
Syracuse - 601-700
Clemson - 601-700
Louisville - 601-700

Houston - 70-95
USF - 70-95
UConn - 96-117
Cincinnati - 96-117
Temple - 96-117
UCF - 96-117
Tulane - 601-700
SMU - 701-800
Memphis 901-1000
Tulsa > 1000
ECU > 1000
Wichita State > 1000

Nebraska - 70-95
BYU - 118-139
WVU - 118-139
Boise State > 1000

Notes - after the top 100 schools in their rankings, they instead use ranges. Further note, numbers below 139 are given for US rankings. Once the world rankings go above 500, they stop listing US rankings and I don't have the time or patience to go through and calculate the US only schools in each level.

These rankings clearly don't provide any favors for smaller, private schools. That said, the point still remains that UConn was still ranked much higher than Louisville, who equals the lowest ranking of any other ACC school and is below half of the AAC schools as well.

USFFan

(09-06-2018 01:49 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 01:33 PM)usffan Wrote:  Fair, and I don't know enough about the way the conference by-laws are written to be able to speak on it other than wild speculation, but unless the conference were able to secure a strong enough TV deal (to BePcr07's point), I have to think that it would be more lucrative for the schools left behind to split any exit fees that UT/OU/KU (I'd guess Okie State would be viewed as more attractive than TTech for that 4th spot, but Texas politics is what ended the Pac-16 plans, so who knows) pay and then join the AAC than it would be to convince AAC members to pay exit fees to join an iffy conference.

USFFan

Why? It'd be the existing AAC schools paying an exit fee, not the Big 12 schools - they don't care. Easier to split a TV deal 10-12 ways than it is to split it 20 ways (to say nothing of actually having to manage a 20-team conference). There's no scenario involving the AAC absorbing multiple Big 12 teams where it doesn't make more sense for the Big 12 teams to just invite whichever AAC/MW programs they find most attractive (plus BYU, if they were interested).

Again, a fair point. Common sense would say that the AAC schools could operate from a position of strength if they agree not to jump at it, but it only takes one school to crack in order for the whole dam to break. And your point about the MWC is also a good one.

One can't help but wonder if/when a couple of the schools from the MWC and the AAC don't get together and formulate a plan to make the strongest conference (or alliance of two conferences) that would work. Jettisoning the weaker schools in each conference and then aligning with the strongest of the Big 12 schools would sure seem to be the way forward.

USFFan

(09-06-2018 02:32 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 01:52 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 01:43 PM)usffan Wrote:  Say what you want about the flaws in the USNWR methodology

OK, I'll say it: US News' methodology is heavily biased in favor of private schools. If it has any use at all, it's only for comparing private schools to other private schools. It is pointless to use US News to compare private schools to public schools.

OK, on the AAC board, somebody recently posted the Academic Ranking of World Universities, which uses more research spending as a ranking. Completely independent of USNWR.

http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2018.html

Here is the same list of schools ranked by their criteria (with caveats noted below):

Duke - 19
UNC - 22
Ga. Tech - 38
Pitt - 42
UVa - 59-69
NC State - 59-69
FSU - 70-95
Miami - 70-95
VT - 70-95
BC - 96-117
Wake Forest - 501-600
Syracuse - 601-700
Clemson - 601-700
Louisville - 601-700

Houston - 70-95
USF - 70-95
UConn - 96-117
Cincinnati - 96-117
Temple - 96-117
UCF - 96-117
Tulane - 601-700
SMU - 701-800
Memphis 901-1000
Tulsa > 1000
ECU > 1000
Wichita State > 1000

Nebraska - 70-95
BYU - 118-139
WVU - 118-139
Boise State > 1000

Notes - after the top 100 schools in their rankings, they instead use ranges. Further note, numbers below 139 are given for US rankings. Once the world rankings go above 500, they stop listing US rankings and I don't have the time or patience to go through and calculate the US only schools in each level.

These rankings clearly don't provide any favors for smaller, private schools. That said, the point still remains that UConn was still ranked much higher than Louisville, who equals the lowest ranking of any other ACC school and is below half of the AAC schools as well.

USFFan

I live in academia, and I can assure that in the USA academy, there is nobody who thinks that UCF and WVU are better schools than Tulane and Wake Forest. To the contrary, Tulane and Wake Forest are elite schools in academia whereas UCF and WVU are much less prestigious academically.

That's just the way it is, which means these rankings are not taken seriously in academia.

(09-06-2018 03:00 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 02:32 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 01:52 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 01:43 PM)usffan Wrote:  Say what you want about the flaws in the USNWR methodology

OK, I'll say it: US News' methodology is heavily biased in favor of private schools. If it has any use at all, it's only for comparing private schools to other private schools. It is pointless to use US News to compare private schools to public schools.

OK, on the AAC board, somebody recently posted the Academic Ranking of World Universities, which uses more research spending as a ranking. Completely independent of USNWR.

http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2018.html

Here is the same list of schools ranked by their criteria (with caveats noted below):

Duke - 19
UNC - 22
Ga. Tech - 38
Pitt - 42
UVa - 59-69
NC State - 59-69
FSU - 70-95
Miami - 70-95
VT - 70-95
BC - 96-117
Wake Forest - 501-600
Syracuse - 601-700
Clemson - 601-700
Louisville - 601-700

Houston - 70-95
USF - 70-95
UConn - 96-117
Cincinnati - 96-117
Temple - 96-117
UCF - 96-117
Tulane - 601-700
SMU - 701-800
Memphis 901-1000
Tulsa > 1000
ECU > 1000
Wichita State > 1000

Nebraska - 70-95
BYU - 118-139
WVU - 118-139
Boise State > 1000

Notes - after the top 100 schools in their rankings, they instead use ranges. Further note, numbers below 139 are given for US rankings. Once the world rankings go above 500, they stop listing US rankings and I don't have the time or patience to go through and calculate the US only schools in each level.

These rankings clearly don't provide any favors for smaller, private schools. That said, the point still remains that UConn was still ranked much higher than Louisville, who equals the lowest ranking of any other ACC school and is below half of the AAC schools as well.

USFFan

I live in academia, and I can assure that in the USA academy, there is nobody who thinks that UCF and WVU are better schools than Tulane and Wake Forest. To the contrary, Tulane and Wake Forest are elite schools in academia whereas UCF and WVU are much less prestigious academically.

That's just the way it is, which means these rankings are not taken seriously in academia.

I agree with you on that, which is why I listed the USNWR rankings first, which I think are more reflective of the way US universities are perceived. I don't think it's perfect, which is why I pointed out from the outset of my first post on this that people would find fault with using them. But they're definitely more in keeping with the "academic prestige" of the various institutions.

To be fair, the mission of private schools like Tulane and Wake Forest are quite different than those of public schools like UCF and WVU. The latter are tasked with making an "affordable" education available to the taxpayers of their states, while the former are under no such mandate.

USFFan

(09-06-2018 01:43 PM)usffan Wrote:  UConn clearly would fall right in the middle of the ACC, which makes it that much more stunning that Louisville ended up with the lifeline...

Shows the lengths the ACC was willing to go to not add UConn, and if you cross a line once it;s much easier to cross it a second time.

(09-06-2018 03:37 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Shows the lengths the ACC was willing to go to not add UConn, and if you cross a line once it;s much easier to cross it a second time.

Eh, it was more a display of the leverage a couple of schools could have with no GOR in place and the Big 12 sitting there with openings (and that's why ESPN intimidated the Big 12 into giving up the pro rata clause for essentially nothing - those four spots were intended for FSU, Clemson, UNC, and Duke, not AAC schools the network already had the rights to at one-tenth the cost). I don't think it's a coincidence that a GOR got worked out in the wake of that decision.

(09-06-2018 03:07 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 03:00 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 02:32 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 01:52 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 01:43 PM)usffan Wrote:  Say what you want about the flaws in the USNWR methodology

OK, I'll say it: US News' methodology is heavily biased in favor of private schools. If it has any use at all, it's only for comparing private schools to other private schools. It is pointless to use US News to compare private schools to public schools.

OK, on the AAC board, somebody recently posted the Academic Ranking of World Universities, which uses more research spending as a ranking. Completely independent of USNWR.

http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2018.html

Here is the same list of schools ranked by their criteria (with caveats noted below):

Duke - 19
UNC - 22
Ga. Tech - 38
Pitt - 42
UVa - 59-69
NC State - 59-69
FSU - 70-95
Miami - 70-95
VT - 70-95
BC - 96-117
Wake Forest - 501-600
Syracuse - 601-700
Clemson - 601-700
Louisville - 601-700

Houston - 70-95
USF - 70-95
UConn - 96-117
Cincinnati - 96-117
Temple - 96-117
UCF - 96-117
Tulane - 601-700
SMU - 701-800
Memphis 901-1000
Tulsa > 1000
ECU > 1000
Wichita State > 1000

Nebraska - 70-95
BYU - 118-139
WVU - 118-139
Boise State > 1000

Notes - after the top 100 schools in their rankings, they instead use ranges. Further note, numbers below 139 are given for US rankings. Once the world rankings go above 500, they stop listing US rankings and I don't have the time or patience to go through and calculate the US only schools in each level.

These rankings clearly don't provide any favors for smaller, private schools. That said, the point still remains that UConn was still ranked much higher than Louisville, who equals the lowest ranking of any other ACC school and is below half of the AAC schools as well.

USFFan

I live in academia, and I can assure that in the USA academy, there is nobody who thinks that UCF and WVU are better schools than Tulane and Wake Forest. To the contrary, Tulane and Wake Forest are elite schools in academia whereas UCF and WVU are much less prestigious academically.

That's just the way it is, which means these rankings are not taken seriously in academia.

I agree with you on that, which is why I listed the USNWR rankings first, which I think are more reflective of the way US universities are perceived. I don't think it's perfect, which is why I pointed out from the outset of my first post on this that people would find fault with using them. But they're definitely more in keeping with the "academic prestige" of the various institutions.

To be fair, the mission of private schools like Tulane and Wake Forest are quite different than those of public schools like UCF and WVU. The latter are tasked with making an "affordable" education available to the taxpayers of their states, while the former are under no such mandate.

USFFan

US News numbers are easily gamed. What counts most is the number of applications versus admissions. Gin up a lot of applicants and invited some high school counselors to lunch and you will move up to a degree. US News also tends to measure undergraduate entrance metrics. ARWU tends to measure graduate outputs.


When you see the spread for some schools you can understand it this way - for instance, NC State is a graduate oriented STEM research institution. Yes they do undergrad, but it's not their core mission. WF and many of the smaller privates focus on their undergrads and produce great undergrads. Whereas the undergrad experience at NC State or say Ohio State may somewhat suck as you are in large classes with mad as hell Grad Students teaching.


At the end of the day, cracking the top 50 in either means someone moved down in addition to your school moving up. It's a zero-sum game.

(09-06-2018 01:52 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Shows the lengths the ACC was willing to go to not add UConn, and if you cross a line once it;s much easier to cross it a second time.

Which is why I think WVU would be next. We already shot academics once. What's to lose in emptying another clip into it?

My gripes with USNWR rankings are that they are NOT normalized per capita so they are heavily biased towards diploma factories. They are also not making judgements to the degrees themselves. This is IMO an anti-STEM bias. A degree in art history isn't as valuable in a degree in computer science and I don't care if you got the CS degree from the University of Phoenix and the art history degree from Harvard. The CS degree is still more valuable.

(09-06-2018 03:44 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 03:37 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Shows the lengths the ACC was willing to go to not add UConn, and if you cross a line once it;s much easier to cross it a second time.

Eh, it was more a display of the leverage a couple of schools could have with no GOR in place and the Big 12 sitting there with openings (and that's why ESPN intimidated the Big 12 into giving up the pro rata clause for essentially nothing - those four spots were intended for FSU, Clemson, UNC, and Duke, not AAC schools the network already had the rights to at one-tenth the cost). I don't think it's a coincidence that a GOR got worked out in the wake of that decision.

It was not a "couple of schools". It was half the conference. FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, NC State, and VT represent half the conference.

(09-06-2018 04:04 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 03:44 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 03:37 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Shows the lengths the ACC was willing to go to not add UConn, and if you cross a line once it;s much easier to cross it a second time.

Eh, it was more a display of the leverage a couple of schools could have with no GOR in place and the Big 12 sitting there with openings (and that's why ESPN intimidated the Big 12 into giving up the pro rata clause for essentially nothing - those four spots were intended for FSU, Clemson, UNC, and Duke, not AAC schools the network already had the rights to at one-tenth the cost). I don't think it's a coincidence that a GOR got worked out in the wake of that decision.

It was not a "couple of schools". It was half the conference. FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, NC State, and VT represent half the conference.

"Half the conference" didn't have an exit strategy lined up and ready to be executed. It's one thing to have two factions with two sets of criteria and have to work toward a solution with the knowledge that nobody's going anywhere. It's another to have two or three schools functionally present an ultimatum. I'm not mad, the schools used the leverage they had to get the outcome they wanted, but there's nothing wrong with understanding that a small number of football schools had an unusual amount of clout at that specific time.

(09-06-2018 05:10 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 04:04 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 03:44 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 03:37 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Shows the lengths the ACC was willing to go to not add UConn, and if you cross a line once it;s much easier to cross it a second time.

Eh, it was more a display of the leverage a couple of schools could have with no GOR in place and the Big 12 sitting there with openings (and that's why ESPN intimidated the Big 12 into giving up the pro rata clause for essentially nothing - those four spots were intended for FSU, Clemson, UNC, and Duke, not AAC schools the network already had the rights to at one-tenth the cost). I don't think it's a coincidence that a GOR got worked out in the wake of that decision.

It was not a "couple of schools". It was half the conference. FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, NC State, and VT represent half the conference.

"Half the conference" didn't have an exit strategy lined up and ready to be executed. It's one thing to have two factions with two sets of criteria and have to work toward a solution with the knowledge that nobody's going anywhere. It's another to have two or three schools functionally present an ultimatum. I'm not mad, the schools used the leverage they had to get the outcome they wanted, but there's nothing wrong with understanding that a small number of football schools had an unusual amount of clout at that specific time.

That's an exaggeration. The B12 is not that attractive.


The ACC voted to add Pitt and Syracuse in the fall of 2011. The deal to add ND was solidified in the summer of 2012. MD had been spying on the league for some time because the ACC wanted add Penn State in addition to ND. MD blew that up. Anyway, in the summer of 2012 FSU nor Clemson had produced for half a decade.


From 2007 to 2011 Clemson went 7-6, 7-6, 9-5, 6-7, and 10-4

From 2007 to 2011 FSU went 9-4, 9-5, 7-6, 10-4, and 9-4


What FSU and Clemson could dictate in 2012 versus what they could dictate today are night and day. Clemson in particular. Yes the B12 would take them, but neither Clemson or FSU would actually leave the ACC for the B12, they would go to the SEC if they really got mad.

That said, if ACC football became northeast oriented you would have lost VT, and NC State if NC State could have made a quick strike move. If VT, NC State, FSU, and Clemson are unhappy where could the four have gone? The answer is "wherever ESPN wanted them to go". Just because FSU is vocalizing does not mean other schools do not agree.

(09-06-2018 05:20 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 05:10 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 04:04 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 03:44 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 03:37 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Shows the lengths the ACC was willing to go to not add UConn, and if you cross a line once it;s much easier to cross it a second time.

Eh, it was more a display of the leverage a couple of schools could have with no GOR in place and the Big 12 sitting there with openings (and that's why ESPN intimidated the Big 12 into giving up the pro rata clause for essentially nothing - those four spots were intended for FSU, Clemson, UNC, and Duke, not AAC schools the network already had the rights to at one-tenth the cost). I don't think it's a coincidence that a GOR got worked out in the wake of that decision.

It was not a "couple of schools". It was half the conference. FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, NC State, and VT represent half the conference.

"Half the conference" didn't have an exit strategy lined up and ready to be executed. It's one thing to have two factions with two sets of criteria and have to work toward a solution with the knowledge that nobody's going anywhere. It's another to have two or three schools functionally present an ultimatum. I'm not mad, the schools used the leverage they had to get the outcome they wanted, but there's nothing wrong with understanding that a small number of football schools had an unusual amount of clout at that specific time.

That's an exaggeration. The B12 is not that attractive.


The ACC voted to add Pitt and Syracuse in the fall of 2011. The deal to add ND was solidified in the summer of 2012. MD had been spying on the league for some time because the ACC wanted add Penn State in addition to ND. MD blew that up. Anyway, in the summer of 2012 FSU nor Clemson had produced for half a decade.


From 2007 to 2011 Clemson went 7-6, 7-6, 9-5, 6-7, and 10-4

From 2007 to 2011 FSU went 9-4, 9-5, 7-6, 10-4, and 9-4


What FSU and Clemson could dictate in 2012 versus what they could dictate today are night and day. Clemson in particular. Yes the B12 would take them, but neither Clemson or FSU would actually leave the ACC for the B12, they would go to the SEC if they really got mad.

That said, if ACC football became northeast oriented you would have lost VT, and NC State if NC State could have made a quick strike move. If VT, NC State, FSU, and Clemson are unhappy where could the four have gone? The answer is "wherever ESPN wanted them to go". Just because FSU is vocalizing does not mean other schools do not agree.

I mean, if you're acknowledging that FSU and Clemson could have left for either the Big 12 or SEC at that time, what are you really arguing? Having the ability to make that threat gave those football schools a tremendous amount of leverage, more so than they have now with a GOR in effect.

That's the important takeaway - the ability to credibly blow up the conference's media situation by leaving versus simply having an opinion.

For the record, while I'm sure VT and NC State would have looked for an exit in that scenario, it's likely they're just continuing to play in a lower-money ACC.

(09-06-2018 03:44 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 03:37 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Shows the lengths the ACC was willing to go to not add UConn, and if you cross a line once it;s much easier to cross it a second time.

Eh, it was more a display of the leverage a couple of schools could have with no GOR in place and the Big 12 sitting there with openings (and that's why ESPN intimidated the Big 12 into giving up the pro rata clause for essentially nothing - those four spots were intended for FSU, Clemson, UNC, and Duke, not AAC schools the network already had the rights to at one-tenth the cost). I don't think it's a coincidence that a GOR got worked out in the wake of that decision.

LOL

Clemson would rather temporarily cripple their program than permanently cripple it by elevating UConn as a peer.

(09-06-2018 05:10 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 04:04 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 03:44 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 03:37 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Shows the lengths the ACC was willing to go to not add UConn, and if you cross a line once it;s much easier to cross it a second time.

Eh, it was more a display of the leverage a couple of schools could have with no GOR in place and the Big 12 sitting there with openings (and that's why ESPN intimidated the Big 12 into giving up the pro rata clause for essentially nothing - those four spots were intended for FSU, Clemson, UNC, and Duke, not AAC schools the network already had the rights to at one-tenth the cost). I don't think it's a coincidence that a GOR got worked out in the wake of that decision.

It was not a "couple of schools". It was half the conference. FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, NC State, and VT represent half the conference.

"Half the conference" didn't have an exit strategy lined up and ready to be executed. It's one thing to have two factions with two sets of criteria and have to work toward a solution with the knowledge that nobody's going anywhere. It's another to have two or three schools functionally present an ultimatum. I'm not mad, the schools used the leverage they had to get the outcome they wanted, but there's nothing wrong with understanding that a small number of football schools had an unusual amount of clout at that specific time.

GT turned down an offer from the Big Ten.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

(09-05-2018 09:38 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-05-2018 08:02 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Rutgers eventually gets a golden ticket out from the Big Ten creating a golden ticket for UConn in the ACC.

The opposition to UCONN is firmly and deeply entrenched within the ACC. If UCONN gets an ACC invite it will be shortly after the ACC no longer exists as a power conference.

The ACC doesn't want to be the SEC. It wants to be the Pac-12 of the east coast, but with enough eyeballs to actually make money. It wants to compete for titles in ALL sports while having high academic standards. Notice the ACC threw academics overboard with Louisville before they were interested in taking UCONN. I think the ACC would shoot academics in the head -- repeatedly -- by inviting WVU before they'd invite UCONN.

I think there's a widely believed misperception about anti UConn sentiments in the ACC. UConn wasn't picked because more schools wanted Louisville. Greater Tobacco Road (the NC schools, UVA, and possibly GT) were concerned about basketball and wanted a solid hoops program--both UConn and Louisville had that. Florida St, Miami, Clemson, and VT wanted an expansion school that enhanced football---Louisville did that, UConn didn't. BC said not in my backyard concerning the Huskies. There you have it, 5 schools preferred Louisville and 6 more didn't have strong feelings either way so Louisville won out

If Louisville accepts a Big 12 invite in October 2011 then in November 2012 the ACC is deciding between UConn and USF. This time Florida St and Miami are the ones saying not in my backyard and they have far more gravitas than BC so in this time it UConn that gets the invite.

(09-06-2018 06:17 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 05:10 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 04:04 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 03:44 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 03:37 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Shows the lengths the ACC was willing to go to not add UConn, and if you cross a line once it;s much easier to cross it a second time.

Eh, it was more a display of the leverage a couple of schools could have with no GOR in place and the Big 12 sitting there with openings (and that's why ESPN intimidated the Big 12 into giving up the pro rata clause for essentially nothing - those four spots were intended for FSU, Clemson, UNC, and Duke, not AAC schools the network already had the rights to at one-tenth the cost). I don't think it's a coincidence that a GOR got worked out in the wake of that decision.

It was not a "couple of schools". It was half the conference. FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, NC State, and VT represent half the conference.

"Half the conference" didn't have an exit strategy lined up and ready to be executed. It's one thing to have two factions with two sets of criteria and have to work toward a solution with the knowledge that nobody's going anywhere. It's another to have two or three schools functionally present an ultimatum. I'm not mad, the schools used the leverage they had to get the outcome they wanted, but there's nothing wrong with understanding that a small number of football schools had an unusual amount of clout at that specific time.

GT turned down an offer from the Big Ten.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

I strongly doubt that that was real, and if it was GT is very very foolish.

(09-06-2018 06:24 PM)Bogg Wrote:  I strongly doubt that that was real, and if it was GT is very very foolish.

Not while the ACC is viable it isn't. Triply so if Fuhrer Mickey decides to take the conferences he owns and reorganize them to suit his financial whims. How is life in the B1G working out for Maryland football? I can tell you how it'd work out for GT football: here's an enormous paycheck, but kiss goodbye to playing games in FL, NC, SC. Say hello to having your own house used as a recruiting poster for Ohio State and Michigan, who will simultaneously undercut your academic minimums and outspend you 3 to 1 recruiting your own hometown. And now that they're playing there every other year ... they'll do much better at that. Georgia Tech will only go to the B1G if their finances completely collapse (unlikely now that Bobinski is gone ... doubly so since Todd Stansbury seems to be the exact right guy to be AD at GT), or if the ACC completely collapses. The Terps might be OK with trips to Minneapolis and Bloomington and East Lansing in November. We're not.

(09-06-2018 06:17 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 03:44 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 03:37 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Shows the lengths the ACC was willing to go to not add UConn, and if you cross a line once it;s much easier to cross it a second time.

Eh, it was more a display of the leverage a couple of schools could have with no GOR in place and the Big 12 sitting there with openings (and that's why ESPN intimidated the Big 12 into giving up the pro rata clause for essentially nothing - those four spots were intended for FSU, Clemson, UNC, and Duke, not AAC schools the network already had the rights to at one-tenth the cost). I don't think it's a coincidence that a GOR got worked out in the wake of that decision.

LOL

Clemson would rather temporarily cripple their program than permanently cripple it by elevating UConn as a peer.

If you're implying that Clemson still has the ability to threaten to leave: They don't. ESPN made sure of that.

(09-06-2018 07:19 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 06:24 PM)Bogg Wrote:  I strongly doubt that that was real, and if it was GT is very very foolish.

Not while the ACC is viable it isn't. Triply so if Fuhrer Mickey decides to take the conferences he owns and reorganize them to suit his financial whims. How is life in the B1G working out for Maryland football? I can tell you how it'd work out for GT football: here's an enormous paycheck, but kiss goodbye to playing games in FL, NC, SC. Say hello to having your own house used as a recruiting poster for Ohio State and Michigan, who will simultaneously undercut your academic minimums and outspend you 3 to 1 recruiting your own hometown. And now that they're playing there every other year ... they'll do much better at that. Georgia Tech will only go to the B1G if their finances completely collapse (unlikely now that Bobinski is gone ... doubly so since Todd Stansbury seems to be the exact right guy to be AD at GT), or if the ACC completely collapses. The Terps might be OK with trips to Minneapolis and Bloomington and East Lansing in November. We're not.

Just don't see the B1G going to an unbalanced 15 or something crazy like 3 pods. My guess is GT had some preliminary conversations as the B1G kicked around possibly going to 16 and some reporters/twitter personalities jumped the gun.