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Gilesfan Online
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Post: #61
RE: Civil Discourse & Kids
(09-04-2018 02:34 PM)LeftUprightAndIn Wrote:  
(09-04-2018 02:14 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  I am not sure I understand.

One doesn't need to have played or coached at the college level to assess performance.

If that were the case, every University president, athletic director, professional owner, or general manager would need to have played at the relevant level. While some have, most have not.

In fact, the best teaching coach I ever saw was a Norview High head JV football coach, and head swim coach. He never played HS football but regularly produced undefeated teams. He also produced stellar swim teams and couldn't swim well enough to even safely go in water over his head.

Having said that, it would seem to me that many fans can at least be able to discern athleticism and skill.

For example, if a db keeps footraces with opposing players, it might be that he is not as fast enough to play that position competitively. I think most fans could see that accurately.
If a WR consistently drops passes, I think fans can see that.
A QB does not throw accurately, I think fans can see that.
If an interior lineman consistently gets beaten, I think fans can see that.
If a FG kicker cannot make a FG, I think fans can see that.

It may not always be apparent the root causes of the issues.
That is where the luxury of forum speculation comes in. Without it there is no reason for these boards at all.

04-cheers

I agree to an extent. I can’t say whether other positions how you would know when to criticize, but kicking wise, if a kicker misses a kick, do you always blame them? Do you understand the timing aspect and how a single mid-step can throw off a whole operation? Do you Always blame a kickoff guy when he doesn’t kick a touchback without knowing that the gameplan was to place the ball inside the five with 4.0 hang because you have a better chance of holding the team within the 25? (Obviously that’s not as applicable anymore with the fair catch rule) but still.. just food for thought. P.S. one of my best kicks in college I missed on my own accord, one of my worst was a make where I had a new snapper and timing was completely shattered. Criticize constructively but only to the affect of what you know, because a lot goes unsaid.

Stick around, the answer is Yes! lol
09-04-2018 02:39 PM
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mturn017 Online
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Post: #62
RE: Civil Discourse & Kids
(09-04-2018 02:29 PM)Coltluv Wrote:  see it's a two way street, you all can critique and criticize but when it's you being called out have a problem lol
you can have a opinion but I won't put any value in it. If you dont want to donate don't if you don't want to attend don't just don't wanna hear about every week.

Like I said man, it's what we do.

It took a shellacking from Liberty to get us to stop arguing about whether to fire Coach Jones. And trust me, it's just a short reprieve.

We're all Sunday morning coaches and armchair QB's here regardless of our expertise. But we're all invested either emotionally, monetarily or both to some degree or another and there were some major failures Saturday night. We're going to talk about it.
09-04-2018 02:40 PM
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ODU2011 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Civil Discourse & Kids
It’s okay to make mistakes in football games, it will always happen. The problem I have is when you continue to make the same mistakes repeatedly. Then it just looks like stupidity or laziness (not talking about the players). BW and staff have shown they do not learn from mistakes. It’s an unfortunate situation right now, but I will always be a fan.
09-04-2018 02:45 PM
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ODUalum78 Online
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Post: #64
RE: Civil Discourse & Kids
(09-04-2018 02:34 PM)LeftUprightAndIn Wrote:  
(09-04-2018 02:14 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  I am not sure I understand.

One doesn't need to have played or coached at the college level to assess performance.

If that were the case, every University president, athletic director, professional owner, or general manager would need to have played at the relevant level. While some have, most have not.

In fact, the best teaching coach I ever saw was a Norview High head JV football coach, and head swim coach. He never played HS football but regularly produced undefeated teams. He also produced stellar swim teams and couldn't swim well enough to even safely go in water over his head.

Having said that, it would seem to me that many fans can at least be able to discern athleticism and skill.

For example, if a db keeps footraces with opposing players, it might be that he is not as fast enough to play that position competitively. I think most fans could see that accurately.
If a WR consistently drops passes, I think fans can see that.
A QB does not throw accurately, I think fans can see that.
If an interior lineman consistently gets beaten, I think fans can see that.
If a FG kicker cannot make a FG, I think fans can see that.

It may not always be apparent the root causes of the issues.
That is where the luxury of forum speculation comes in. Without it there is no reason for these boards at all.

04-cheers

I agree to an extent. I can’t say whether other positions how you would know when to criticize, but kicking wise, if a kicker misses a kick, do you always blame them? Do you understand the timing aspect and how a single mid-step can throw off a whole operation? Do you Always blame a kickoff guy when he doesn’t kick a touchback without knowing that the gameplan was to place the ball inside the five with 4.0 hang because you have a better chance of holding the team within the 25? (Obviously that’s not as applicable anymore with the fair catch rule) but still.. just food for thought. P.S. one of my best kicks in college I missed on my own accord, one of my worst was a make where I had a new snapper and timing was completely shattered. Criticize constructively but only to the affect of what you know, because a lot goes unsaid.

Well of course. See what I bolded above.
For example, we had extensive discourse about Shuler Bentley
1. was he getting enough time
2. were his receivers making the proper reads and running the proper routes
3. were his receivers making an inordinate amount of drops because they could't catch or because of the way the ball was thrown
4. was he making his reads
5. was he tall enough
etc etc etc.

I assume that if it comes to a thread about our kicker, all of the relevant side points will be discussed as well.
I also believe that your insight would be a welcome addition.

EDIT: I know of two HS coaches on this board. One is very aware of the athletes and their feelings, and has been vocal in his defense of the players and coaches.
The other has been a vocal critic and cynic.
Both have experience as players and coaches. Which one is right?
I think they both are.

04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 09-04-2018 02:56 PM by ODUalum78.)
09-04-2018 02:46 PM
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jasdf Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Civil Discourse & Kids
So the people who criticize movies, books, television, music should just consider themselves unqualified to criticize due to their lack of success in the aforementioned professions.

Cool that’s great that means I’m gonna have to make a point to “call out” every person in my daily life, and there are a lot, that discuss politics because they were never politicians. How am I ever going to get anything done
09-04-2018 02:46 PM
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jasdf Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Civil Discourse & Kids
Or were we still discussing the apparent sensitivity of legal male adults to content on social media websites whose use is optional
09-04-2018 02:49 PM
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LeftUprightAndIn Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Civil Discourse & Kids
(09-04-2018 02:46 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(09-04-2018 02:34 PM)LeftUprightAndIn Wrote:  
(09-04-2018 02:14 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  I am not sure I understand.

One doesn't need to have played or coached at the college level to assess performance.

If that were the case, every University president, athletic director, professional owner, or general manager would need to have played at the relevant level. While some have, most have not.

In fact, the best teaching coach I ever saw was a Norview High head JV football coach, and head swim coach. He never played HS football but regularly produced undefeated teams. He also produced stellar swim teams and couldn't swim well enough to even safely go in water over his head.

Having said that, it would seem to me that many fans can at least be able to discern athleticism and skill.

For example, if a db keeps footraces with opposing players, it might be that he is not as fast enough to play that position competitively. I think most fans could see that accurately.
If a WR consistently drops passes, I think fans can see that.
A QB does not throw accurately, I think fans can see that.
If an interior lineman consistently gets beaten, I think fans can see that.
If a FG kicker cannot make a FG, I think fans can see that.

It may not always be apparent the root causes of the issues.
That is where the luxury of forum speculation comes in. Without it there is no reason for these boards at all.

04-cheers

I agree to an extent. I can’t say whether other positions how you would know when to criticize, but kicking wise, if a kicker misses a kick, do you always blame them? Do you understand the timing aspect and how a single mid-step can throw off a whole operation? Do you Always blame a kickoff guy when he doesn’t kick a touchback without knowing that the gameplan was to place the ball inside the five with 4.0 hang because you have a better chance of holding the team within the 25? (Obviously that’s not as applicable anymore with the fair catch rule) but still.. just food for thought. P.S. one of my best kicks in college I missed on my own accord, one of my worst was a make where I had a new snapper and timing was completely shattered. Criticize constructively but only to the affect of what you know, because a lot goes unsaid.

Well of course. See what I bolded above.
For example, we had extensive discourse about Shuler Bentley
1. was he getting enough time
2. were his receivers making the proper reads and running the proper routes
3. were his receivers making an inordinate amount of drops because of them of the way the ball was thrown
4. was he making his reads
5. was he tall enough
etc etc etc.

I assumed if it comes to a thread about our kicker, that all of the relevant side points will be discussed as well.

04-cheers

I apologize! That sentence must’ve gone over my head. Like I say, I’m okay with critique, and it was well deserved Saturday, but I think it’s all okay until it becomes cynical and just outright obscene.
09-04-2018 02:49 PM
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Mo Blue Den You Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Civil Discourse & Kids
(09-04-2018 02:29 PM)Coltluv Wrote:  see it's a two way street, you all can critique and criticize but when it's you being called out have a problem lol
you can have a opinion but I won't put any value in it. If you dont want to donate don't if you don't want to attend don't just don't wanna hear about every week.

When our TEAM puts a better product on the field against a school we consider our peer, rest assured you wont hear about it. BUT WHEN WE CRAP THE BED AGAINST LIBERTY WHO WAS 4TH IN THE BIG SOUTH LAST YEAR, EXPECT IT. We've been around long enough to where we at least should have been competitive.

Guess our 4th quarter struggles are right back in the thick of the ****. Maybe Bobby should run practices a little long LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
09-04-2018 03:09 PM
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Coltluv Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Civil Discourse & Kids
I agree everyone has opinions and points of view! I just think a few just go over the top but I guess that's just my opinion lol. the only thing that gets me is the constant threats of donations and burning tickets and not going to games if that's what you wanna do,do it.
(This post was last modified: 09-04-2018 03:16 PM by Coltluv.)
09-04-2018 03:13 PM
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Mo Blue Den You Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Civil Discourse & Kids
(09-04-2018 03:13 PM)Coltluv Wrote:  I agree everyone has opinions and points of view! I just think a few just go over the top but I guess that's just my opinion lol. the only thing that gets me is the constant threats of donations and burning tickets and not going to games if that's what you wanna do,do it.

Pretty sure thats exactly what people are doing. Dont think anyone was waiting for your permission...

If you dont want to read it, probably should just block the people like Bobby does 03-lmfao

To hell with negativity lol
09-04-2018 03:19 PM
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Coltluv Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Civil Discourse & Kids
seems like they are waiting on someone's permission!?
(This post was last modified: 09-04-2018 03:33 PM by Coltluv.)
09-04-2018 03:32 PM
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Maryland Monarch Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Civil Discourse & Kids
(09-04-2018 01:42 PM)Coltluv Wrote:  I find blogs hysterical they say people get so mad at a football game. 99.9 percent of these bloggers have never played football past HS and I willing to bet their HS careers wasn't much. Yet they come on message boards and can critique coaches and players like they have actually been in this position before. The easiest way to win a game is from the stands you can catch every pass complete every throw and call all td plays and you win every game!!!

I find it ironic that people try to shut down conversation by saying that unless you've played college football, you can't understand or critique college football. It's football, not quantum mechanics.

I guess since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to understand that 52-10 was an ass-whooping.

I guess since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to understand that a fake punt from your own end on your first possession is ridiculous. (Even though the coach admits it was a mistake.)

I guess since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to see that our QB was wildly inaccurate on his passing all day. And not even consistent in his inaccuracy, throwing both high and low...and behind...his receivers.

I guess since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to see that Brickhouse got humiliated by Gandy-Whatever all day long. Oh, and I'm way too stupid to see that the coaches never tried to help him out.

I guess since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to see that our running game was one-dimensional and completely ineffective. Being ignorant, I couldn't even begin to understand that you actually CAN make changes to your offense. It's legal.

I guess since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to see that Blake LaRussa was much more effective on Saturday and that he might actually have been able to win the game, if he had played the 2nd half.

Finally, since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to see that these types of beat-downs happen way too often at ODU. I'm supposed to believe that all Bobby has to do is make some tweaks around the edges to make this a championship team. You know, like giving a Yugo a new wax job will make it a winner in the Indy 500.

Well I'm not too ignorant to know that everyone is held accountable for their performance. ODU and Coach Wilder are paying the price this week. The criticism is unpleasant, but they earned it.
09-04-2018 03:45 PM
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Coltluv Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Civil Discourse & Kids
yea that's what I'm saying lol
09-04-2018 03:54 PM
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Maryland Monarch Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Civil Discourse & Kids
(09-04-2018 03:54 PM)Coltluv Wrote:  yea that's what I'm saying lol

Actually, that's exactly what you were saying.
09-04-2018 03:56 PM
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Coltluv Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Civil Discourse & Kids
what I'm really saying it's a college football GAME. if ODU had won what would be different in your life.
09-04-2018 03:57 PM
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Maryland Monarch Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Civil Discourse & Kids
(09-04-2018 03:57 PM)Coltluv Wrote:  what I'm really saying it's a college football GAME. if ODU had won what would be different in your life.

That's not what you said at all. You said that unless a person has actually played college football, they have no right to criticize the players or coach. If that was a mis-statement, then own up to it.

You can try to deflect by condescension, if you like. Heck, I'll even bite. If ODU would have won, what would have been different in my life? Well, for one, I would have been proud of my team instead of embarrassed by it. Two, I would have been hopeful for the season, instead of apprehensive. Three, I would have had an excuse NOT to mow the lawn next Saturday so I could watch the game.

The bottom line is that whether ODU wins or not makes no difference in most of our lives. We're fans and we want our team to succeed. When it doesn't, we get upset. That upset is compounded when the coach...and other fans...tell us we have no right to get upset.
(This post was last modified: 09-04-2018 04:06 PM by Maryland Monarch.)
09-04-2018 04:05 PM
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ODU2011 Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Civil Discourse & Kids
(09-04-2018 03:45 PM)Maryland Monarch Wrote:  
(09-04-2018 01:42 PM)Coltluv Wrote:  I find blogs hysterical they say people get so mad at a football game. 99.9 percent of these bloggers have never played football past HS and I willing to bet their HS careers wasn't much. Yet they come on message boards and can critique coaches and players like they have actually been in this position before. The easiest way to win a game is from the stands you can catch every pass complete every throw and call all td plays and you win every game!!!

I find it ironic that people try to shut down conversation by saying that unless you've played college football, you can't understand or critique college football. It's football, not quantum mechanics.

I guess since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to understand that 52-10 was an ass-whooping.

I guess since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to understand that a fake punt from your own end on your first possession is ridiculous. (Even though the coach admits it was a mistake.)

I guess since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to see that our QB was wildly inaccurate on his passing all day. And not even consistent in his inaccuracy, throwing both high and low...and behind...his receivers.

I guess since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to see that Brickhouse got humiliated by Gandy-Whatever all day long. Oh, and I'm way too stupid to see that the coaches never tried to help him out.

I guess since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to see that our running game was one-dimensional and completely ineffective. Being ignorant, I couldn't even begin to understand that you actually CAN make changes to your offense. It's legal.

I guess since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to see that Blake LaRussa was much more effective on Saturday and that he might actually have been able to win the game, if he had played the 2nd half.

Finally, since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to see that these types of beat-downs happen way too often at ODU. I'm supposed to believe that all Bobby has to do is make some tweaks around the edges to make this a championship team. You know, like giving a Yugo a new wax job will make it a winner in the Indy 500.

Well I'm not too ignorant to know that everyone is held accountable for their performance. ODU and Coach Wilder are paying the price this week. The criticism is unpleasant, but they earned it.

How dare you hold the coaches responsible for making the same mistakes over and over again! We must be nice and not critical! Also don’t you dare insult anyone! But if you don’t agree with me I will insult you! Being sarcastic of course for some specific posters on here. They will argue with your sound logic just to argue. I agree with everything you said Maryland monarch. 04-cheers
09-04-2018 04:29 PM
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Gilesfan Online
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Post: #78
RE: Civil Discourse & Kids
How did this morph into people not being allowed to be upset? It was clerly about personal insults against our kids and coaches
09-04-2018 05:03 PM
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RE: Civil Discourse & Kids
(09-04-2018 05:03 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  How did this morph into people not being allowed to be upset? It was clerly about personal insults against our kids and coaches

Post #44
09-04-2018 05:43 PM
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RE: Civil Discourse & Kids
(09-04-2018 03:45 PM)Maryland Monarch Wrote:  
(09-04-2018 01:42 PM)Coltluv Wrote:  I find blogs hysterical they say people get so mad at a football game. 99.9 percent of these bloggers have never played football past HS and I willing to bet their HS careers wasn't much. Yet they come on message boards and can critique coaches and players like they have actually been in this position before. The easiest way to win a game is from the stands you can catch every pass complete every throw and call all td plays and you win every game!!!

I find it ironic that people try to shut down conversation by saying that unless you've played college football, you can't understand or critique college football. It's football, not quantum mechanics.

I guess since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to understand that 52-10 was an ass-whooping.

I guess since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to understand that a fake punt from your own end on your first possession is ridiculous. (Even though the coach admits it was a mistake.)

I guess since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to see that our QB was wildly inaccurate on his passing all day. And not even consistent in his inaccuracy, throwing both high and low...and behind...his receivers.

I guess since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to see that Brickhouse got humiliated by Gandy-Whatever all day long. Oh, and I'm way too stupid to see that the coaches never tried to help him out.

I guess since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to see that our running game was one-dimensional and completely ineffective. Being ignorant, I couldn't even begin to understand that you actually CAN make changes to your offense. It's legal.

I guess since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to see that Blake LaRussa was much more effective on Saturday and that he might actually have been able to win the game, if he had played the 2nd half.

Finally, since I didn't play in college, I'm too ignorant to see that these types of beat-downs happen way too often at ODU. I'm supposed to believe that all Bobby has to do is make some tweaks around the edges to make this a championship team. You know, like giving a Yugo a new wax job will make it a winner in the Indy 500.

Well I'm not too ignorant to know that everyone is held accountable for their performance. ODU and Coach Wilder are paying the price this week. The criticism is unpleasant, but they earned it.

FWIW MM, I say criticize away, that was never my point. All your points above are fine by me and everyone I know, not that that matters. However, I believe personal insults are a Bridge to Far especially for the players. *Just my opinion but I feel strongly about it* Also before you go to far on the "but they earned it" stuff, you need to find out what was being said and sent to them (Coach Wilder for example) on twitter and elsewhere. If you would support people saying vile sexual things about you, your wife, or children (have no idea if you have any of those or not - just making a point) then I can see where you would think I was wasting your time by starting this thread.
09-04-2018 05:54 PM
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