(08-24-2018 03:09 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  It would be cool if UWM, UIC, DePaul and Illinois State all had FBS football.

Milwaukee certainly makes sense, as does UIC to a lesser extent.

(08-24-2018 04:45 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  NYU 29k+ undergraduate
25k graduate/professional

Think you missed the Violets

NYU would have been in the Big East if they had stayed D-I.

Not all schools, despite having big enrollments, are built for FBS. Some are swallowed up in big pro sports markets or rest in the shadow of a bigger collegiate brands, Utah Valley and the much more popular BYU Cougars for instance.

Where I think FBS has room to grow is in the south where younger schools are growing as the region's population increases. I'm really surprised that some of the state schools in Florida like UNF and FGSU aren't chasing FBS.

(08-24-2018 09:24 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Not all schools, despite having big enrollments, are built for FBS. Some are swallowed up in big pro sports markets or rest in the shadow of a bigger collegiate brands, Utah Valley and the much more popular BYU Cougars for instance.

Where I think FBS has room to grow is in the south where younger schools are growing as the region's population increases. I'm really surprised that some of the state schools in Florida like UNF and FGSU aren't chasing FBS.

is there enough room for a fanbase after Florida, Miami, Florida State, FIU, FAU, South Florida and UCF?

(08-24-2018 09:30 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(08-24-2018 09:24 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Not all schools, despite having big enrollments, are built for FBS. Some are swallowed up in big pro sports markets or rest in the shadow of a bigger collegiate brands, Utah Valley and the much more popular BYU Cougars for instance.

Where I think FBS has room to grow is in the south where younger schools are growing as the region's population increases. I'm really surprised that some of the state schools in Florida like UNF and FGSU aren't chasing FBS.

is there enough room for a fanbase after Florida, Miami, Florida State, FIU, FAU, South Florida and UCF?

Ohio supports 8 FBS programs with a smaller population. There's also some metros in the Sunshine State that lack big time collegiate football.

But most are in the Panhandle. Jacksonville has no FBS program but Florida is only an hour and change away, so in reality, it does have one.

(08-24-2018 09:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(08-24-2018 09:30 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(08-24-2018 09:24 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Not all schools, despite having big enrollments, are built for FBS. Some are swallowed up in big pro sports markets or rest in the shadow of a bigger collegiate brands, Utah Valley and the much more popular BYU Cougars for instance.

Where I think FBS has room to grow is in the south where younger schools are growing as the region's population increases. I'm really surprised that some of the state schools in Florida like UNF and FGSU aren't chasing FBS.

is there enough room for a fanbase after Florida, Miami, Florida State, FIU, FAU, South Florida and UCF?

Ohio supports 8 FBS programs with a smaller population. There's also some metros in the Sunshine State that lack big time collegiate football.

"Supports" is a relative term I guess.

(08-24-2018 08:06 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-24-2018 06:38 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  In California...
UC & CSU systems...
The non-fb CA schools are a no go...state budget issues...football was dropped at these schools for a reason...it's not coming back anytime soon

In San Diego...
SDSU already FBS...Mountain West Conference
USD happy at FCS...Pioneer Football League (non-scholly)
UCSD going DI non-football ---> Big West Conference (2020)

Not sure. The time the California schools dropped football, many of them were under 10,000 students. Now, many of them are above that or larger.

I don't believe I have ever heard of a school that included among its goals to grow big enough to have an FBS football program. This isn't one of those things where size matters.

Ohio has two big time college football programs. Akron, Miami and Toledo have some level of cachet and Ohio does well for itself as a quasi state flagship. The other two (Kent and Bowling Green) shouldn't be fielding teams, at least in FBS.

(08-25-2018 09:47 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Ohio has two big time college football programs. Akron, Miami and Toledo have some level of cachet and Ohio does well for itself as a quasi state flagship. The other two (Kent and Bowling Green) shouldn't be fielding teams, at least in FBS.

I like the MAC but I’m skeptical about Akron, Kent St, and Bowling Green St along with Eastern Michigan and Ball St.

Just a reminder... Metropolitan State University of Denver is prohibited by its charter from EVER sponsoring "Varsity" Football...on any level. I'm an alumnus of Metro State (it was Metro State College at that point) and they did have "club" football when I started, but even that was discontinued. Division 1 BB was explored and rejected as being too expensive.

So, even though Metro has a 25,000+ enrollment, the idea that they will ever sponsor football as a sport...yeah, not happening.

#proudtobearoadrunner

But can't a charter be changed?

(08-25-2018 09:36 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-24-2018 08:06 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-24-2018 06:38 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  In California...
UC & CSU systems...
The non-fb CA schools are a no go...state budget issues...football was dropped at these schools for a reason...it's not coming back anytime soon

In San Diego...
SDSU already FBS...Mountain West Conference
USD happy at FCS...Pioneer Football League (non-scholly)
UCSD going DI non-football ---> Big West Conference (2020)

Not sure. The time the California schools dropped football, many of them were under 10,000 students. Now, many of them are above that or larger.

I don't believe I have ever heard of a school that included among its goals to grow big enough to have an FBS football program. This isn't one of those things where size matters.

Especially in California where the culture is different from the football crazy South and Midwest. I’m originally from the San Fernando Valley that has a population of about 2 million.. Cal State-Northridge or CSUN (See-Sun) as it’s commonly called sits right in the middle of the Valley. Someone like DavidSt might look at the 40k plus enrollment and the Valley’s population and say “they sure can support FBS football”. The answer is no.

In the case of CSUN, they have many things against them: commuter school, not the traditional college student profile, UCLA and USC are nearby, Angelenos are not that crazy about football (it took the NFL 20+ years to get back and the two local FBS schools struggle with attendance) and where would the Matadors play football? Land in the Valley is too expensive, the state politics plus the Cal State budget cuts would make it impossible to justify such an expense and even if they get the green light, they don’t have any room for a FBS type football stadium so the only two options would be renting the Rose Bowl or the Coliseum. Good luck trying to convince a non traditional student to make the trip to Pasadena on a Thursday night dealing with the infamous LA traffic just to see their school play a San Jose State type of school. It’s just a recipe for disaster. There’s a reason it hasn’t happened.

Cal-Now, an agreement struck in 1993 between the Cal State System and the state branch of National Organization for Women, is still in effect today.

https://m.sfgate.com/sports/article/At-C...805184.php

Back in 1993, Cal-NOW filed a lawsuit in San Francisco Superior Court, claiming CSU members were not complying with a 1976 state law concerning gender equity. Presumably that state law grew out of the Title IX legislation, but it was the state law that Cal-NOW cited.


The lawsuit was terminated when CSU agreed to work with Cal-NOW in formulating a plan to meet state guidelines. They came up with the Cal-NOW decree, which is probably more demanding than Title IX. The Cal-NOW decree is based entirely on proportionality numbers. To be in compliance, the percentage of female athletes at a school has to be within 5 percentage points of the percentage of females on that CSU school's campus. There are also similar scholarship and spending percentages that must be met.

This is why the Cal States who dropped football, are not bringing it back. Hate to burst David's bubble but it's not happening for Fullerton, Long Beach or Northridge.

Interestingly enough, the UC schools were not subject to this.

(08-25-2018 12:22 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(08-25-2018 09:36 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-24-2018 08:06 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-24-2018 06:38 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  In California...
UC & CSU systems...
The non-fb CA schools are a no go...state budget issues...football was dropped at these schools for a reason...it's not coming back anytime soon

In San Diego...
SDSU already FBS...Mountain West Conference
USD happy at FCS...Pioneer Football League (non-scholly)
UCSD going DI non-football ---> Big West Conference (2020)

Not sure. The time the California schools dropped football, many of them were under 10,000 students. Now, many of them are above that or larger.

I don't believe I have ever heard of a school that included among its goals to grow big enough to have an FBS football program. This isn't one of those things where size matters.

Especially in California where the culture is different from the football crazy South and Midwest. I’m originally from the San Fernando Valley that has a population of about 2 million.. Cal State-Northridge or CSUN (See-Sun) as it’s commonly called sits right in the middle of the Valley. Someone like DavidSt might look at the 40k plus enrollment and the Valley’s population and say “they sure can support FBS football”. The answer is no.

In the case of CSUN, they have many things against them: commuter school, not the traditional college student profile, UCLA and USC are nearby, Angelenos are not that crazy about football (it took the NFL 20+ years to get back and the two local FBS schools struggle with attendance) and where would the Matadors play football? Land in the Valley is too expensive, the state politics plus the Cal State budget cuts would make it impossible to justify such an expense and even if they get the green light, they don’t have any room for a FBS type football stadium so the only two options would be renting the Rose Bowl or the Coliseum. Good luck trying to convince a non traditional student to make the trip to Pasadena on a Thursday night dealing with the infamous LA traffic just to see their school play a San Jose State type of school. It’s just a recipe for disaster. There’s a reason it hasn’t happened.

CSUN chose to leave the Big Sky. That killed their football program more than anything else.

(08-24-2018 08:46 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(08-24-2018 06:11 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-24-2018 05:56 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(08-24-2018 04:46 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

Quote:NY Tech D2 sports have been suspended for a short period. Not sure why yet.

Show a source for this statement. The women's volleyball team played yesterday and today (Aug 23-24).

NY Tech is having financial difficulties and is focusing on saving the school, not sports.

You are talking about NYIT?

David listed the school as "NY Tech D2" and I interpret that as "NYIT", seems to be a logical deduction.

About the finance statement, I did google searches for 'financial difficulties' inserting the different forms of the school name. With 'NYIT' inserted, nothing was found. With 'NY Tech' inserted, a 1.5 year-old article about The Met Museum and a 2.5 year-old article about the CUNY system is found. NYIT is private and Queens College is the only D2 school in the CUNY system. Queens College did drop Fencing and Men's Swim & Dive after the 2017-18 season.

What is the source for the enrollment numbers? David has NY Tech D2/NYIT as over 10,000 students. The 'NYIT at a Glance' page on the school site shows "Full-Time Students, Fall 2017 (all campuses): 6,334". Yes, that's only full-time students and they have 7 campuses. I doubt they get any athletic fees from students at campuses not in New York.

Old Westbury, N.Y. (main campus)
New York, N.Y.
Abu Dhabi, UAE
Beijing, China
Nanjing, China
Vancouver, Canada
Jonesboro, Ark.

The only article on NYIT athletics I could find was they just hired a former MLB player as new head Baseball coach on Thursday.

CSU-Dominguez Hills already have an on campus stadium for soccer matches.

I have to say that law in 1993 might have been some type of scam that the UC system to be placed on CSU schools hoping to kill football teams like Fresno State, San Diego State, San Jose State, Sacramento State and Cal.-Poly. As for the schools that said they would think about adding football said that they need to add the sport or be left behind. Some educators said that a lot of male students are leaving the state to go to schools to other states that do not have handcuffs on schools like Fullerton State from having football. They seem to go to Arizona, Nevada, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah, Idaho and Washington that do have football. Educators back in 2012 think that schools in California need to restart football to try and keep male students in-state. I think one of the reasons why is that there are way more females than females.

(08-25-2018 01:37 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(08-25-2018 12:22 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(08-25-2018 09:36 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-24-2018 08:06 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-24-2018 06:38 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  In California...
UC & CSU systems...
The non-fb CA schools are a no go...state budget issues...football was dropped at these schools for a reason...it's not coming back anytime soon

In San Diego...
SDSU already FBS...Mountain West Conference
USD happy at FCS...Pioneer Football League (non-scholly)
UCSD going DI non-football ---> Big West Conference (2020)

Not sure. The time the California schools dropped football, many of them were under 10,000 students. Now, many of them are above that or larger.

I don't believe I have ever heard of a school that included among its goals to grow big enough to have an FBS football program. This isn't one of those things where size matters.

Especially in California where the culture is different from the football crazy South and Midwest. I’m originally from the San Fernando Valley that has a population of about 2 million.. Cal State-Northridge or CSUN (See-Sun) as it’s commonly called sits right in the middle of the Valley. Someone like DavidSt might look at the 40k plus enrollment and the Valley’s population and say “they sure can support FBS football”. The answer is no.

In the case of CSUN, they have many things against them: commuter school, not the traditional college student profile, UCLA and USC are nearby, Angelenos are not that crazy about football (it took the NFL 20+ years to get back and the two local FBS schools struggle with attendance) and where would the Matadors play football? Land in the Valley is too expensive, the state politics plus the Cal State budget cuts would make it impossible to justify such an expense and even if they get the green light, they don’t have any room for a FBS type football stadium so the only two options would be renting the Rose Bowl or the Coliseum. Good luck trying to convince a non traditional student to make the trip to Pasadena on a Thursday night dealing with the infamous LA traffic just to see their school play a San Jose State type of school. It’s just a recipe for disaster. There’s a reason it hasn’t happened.

CSUN chose to leave the Big Sky. That killed their football program more than anything else.

True. Pacific won’t bring it back either. California is a different animal from the rest of the nation. The only part of California that supports G5 football is Fresno, they’re far enough from LA and the Bay Area, there’s no pro sports and P5 schools in the region and they’re a blue collar town. I don’t know if at some point SJSU would decide to take the same route of the other Cal State schools that ended their football programs.

(08-25-2018 02:23 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  CSU-Dominguez Hills already have an on campus stadium for soccer matches.

I have to say that law in 1993 might have been some type of scam that the UC system to be placed on CSU schools hoping to kill football teams like Fresno State, San Diego State, San Jose State, Sacramento State and Cal.-Poly. As for the schools that said they would think about adding football said that they need to add the sport or be left behind. Some educators said that a lot of male students are leaving the state to go to schools to other states that do not have handcuffs on schools like Fullerton State from having football. They seem to go to Arizona, Nevada, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah, Idaho and Washington that do have football. Educators back in 2012 think that schools in California need to restart football to try and keep male students in-state. I think one of the reasons why is that there are way more females than females.

The ratio of women in college has been increasing since the 1960s. That’s not changing anytime soon. Men tend to go to trade school and the military in bigger numbers than women. I doubt starting a football program at some colleges in California will increase the male student population. The football team is a very small fraction of the entire male population. Having less than a hundred men will not make or break a school. What you might be referring to is Californians having to go to college in another state because the UC and to some extent the Cal State schools favor wealthy Asian students who pay out-of-state tuition in cash over Californians who qualify for in-state tuition, grants and financial aid.

(08-25-2018 11:37 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  But can't a charter be changed?

It would have to go through the Colorado State legislature. And CU would certainly block it.

Metro State was founded in 1963 as a school for "non-traditional" students and part of its charter by the State was to focus money on academics, not athletics. At the time, (college) football was the giant, money-sucking beast of college and university budgets. (It still is.) So when the State of Colorado set up Metro State, their explicit intention was that football would NEVER be allowed to usurp money. So, they wrote it into the Charter document.

So...yeah...it "could" be changed, but it will never be. That was part of the movement some years back to fold in UC-Denver and the Community College of Denver (which all share the same campus with Metro) and create a "new" school called "Denver State." While the University of Denver didn't like the "name," that wasn't what killed the deal; it was the University of Colorado Board of Regents, who didn't want to lose UCD, but also didn't want the probable creation of a new college FB program in the metro-Denver media market. Right now, CU is "the" college football program for Denver area, with CSU a distant second.

Suffice it to say that it just isn't happening.