Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Right Wing Collectivism
Author Message
georgia_tech_swagger Offline
Res publica non dominetur
*

Posts: 45,886
Joined: Feb 2002
Reputation: 1296
I Root For: GT, USCU, FU
Location: Upstate, SC

SkunkworksFolding@NCAAbbsNCAAbbs LUGCrappies
Post: #1
Right Wing Collectivism
I think this speaks to much of the nasty side of Trump-ism / the populist GOP.











08-23-2018 12:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply

EigenEagle Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,048
Joined: May 2014
Reputation: 196
I Root For: Ga Southern
Location:
Post: #2
RE: Right Wing Collectivism
Well, I certainly don't agree with the alt right on everything when it comes to immigration, but I do think the libertarian right shares with the left a completely unrealistic optimism when it comes to assimilating immigrants to western countries. When you look at Arabs in Europe, there are some that are contributing but for the most part they're just creating crime-ridden ghettos in the large cities and the enabling and apologetics by sitting Europeas politicians are just enabling the far right.

In America it's not as bleak, but it's a similar situation. A lot of hispanics can out-work 3 Americans when it comes to physical labor, but by and large they lag behind most Americans in educational attainment and job skills. When they're your fastest growing demographic and make up such a significant percentage of the newest generations, that doesn't bode well for the future. And I don't have much hope that lots of money and enthusiasm and after-school programs will fix the problem.

A lot of this boils down to the question of "why are poor countries poor". Liberals think it's because of colonialism and western imperialism and we can right wrongs by letting people from poor countries immigrate. Libertarians seem to think it's because of overbearing governments (doesn't explain how China has been able to become a power) and that they just need some level of economic freedom. I'm not convinced of either. I think assimilation is a lot more difficult and tricky than liberals and libertarians think.

That's one aspect I think the Trump right has right, but of course so many of them take it too far and want to ban Muslims and cut off all non-white immigration and in the end we still have a stupid, broken immigration system where scientists are being deported because they can't get green cards but low-skill, poorly-educated workers are protected by liberal politicians in "sanctuary cities" and other silliness.
(This post was last modified: 08-28-2018 01:48 PM by EigenEagle.)
08-28-2018 01:46 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 23,177
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 698
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #3
RE: Right Wing Collectivism
Assimilation is by and large a function of economics. If assimilation helps your economic success and there is a path to such success then people assimilate.

All but a few countries in Europe have significantly higher immigrant unemployment than the US and significantly more problems.

Europe also appears to have greater numbers of non-economic migrants who aren't there seeking work.
08-29-2018 09:16 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bullet Online
Legend
*

Posts: 33,121
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 890
I Root For: Texas, UK, UGA
Location:
Post: #4
RE: Right Wing Collectivism
(08-29-2018 09:16 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Assimilation is by and large a function of economics. If assimilation helps your economic success and there is a path to such success then people assimilate.

All but a few countries in Europe have significantly higher immigrant unemployment than the US and significantly more problems.

Europe also appears to have greater numbers of non-economic migrants who aren't there seeking work.

Not at all. Its about pace. If you have a constant flood of immigrants, separate communities remain. If it slows down, they assimilate. That is what happened after the mass immigration from 1880-1920. It is what is happening among a lot of groups. It isn't happening among recent Latin immigrants.
08-30-2018 07:33 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply

arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 23,177
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 698
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #5
RE: Right Wing Collectivism
(08-30-2018 07:33 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-29-2018 09:16 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Assimilation is by and large a function of economics. If assimilation helps your economic success and there is a path to such success then people assimilate.

All but a few countries in Europe have significantly higher immigrant unemployment than the US and significantly more problems.

Europe also appears to have greater numbers of non-economic migrants who aren't there seeking work.

Not at all. Its about pace. If you have a constant flood of immigrants, separate communities remain. If it slows down, they assimilate. That is what happened after the mass immigration from 1880-1920. It is what is happening among a lot of groups. It isn't happening among recent Latin immigrants.

The flood assimilated as the economics forced them to.

I'm working today in a town in Arkansas that has had a big Hispanic influx, the only ones not assimilating are the newest ones and they are stuck gutting chickens. The others are in supervisor positions, or starting their own businesses.

Outside of the more educated immigrants, the historic pattern is parents take unskilled work, children assimilate because they have superior language skills.

German was nearly the official language because so many spoke German. Kids do the bulk of assimilation.

Buddy has a Honduran who has worked for him for 25+ years and his English still sucks. His oldest just got a full academic ride to college.
(This post was last modified: 08-30-2018 09:49 AM by arkstfan.)
08-30-2018 09:48 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bullet Online
Legend
*

Posts: 33,121
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 890
I Root For: Texas, UK, UGA
Location:
Post: #6
RE: Right Wing Collectivism
(08-30-2018 09:48 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(08-30-2018 07:33 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-29-2018 09:16 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Assimilation is by and large a function of economics. If assimilation helps your economic success and there is a path to such success then people assimilate.

All but a few countries in Europe have significantly higher immigrant unemployment than the US and significantly more problems.

Europe also appears to have greater numbers of non-economic migrants who aren't there seeking work.

Not at all. Its about pace. If you have a constant flood of immigrants, separate communities remain. If it slows down, they assimilate. That is what happened after the mass immigration from 1880-1920. It is what is happening among a lot of groups. It isn't happening among recent Latin immigrants.

The flood assimilated as the economics forced them to.

I'm working today in a town in Arkansas that has had a big Hispanic influx, the only ones not assimilating are the newest ones and they are stuck gutting chickens. The others are in supervisor positions, or starting their own businesses.

Outside of the more educated immigrants, the historic pattern is parents take unskilled work, children assimilate because they have superior language skills.

German was nearly the official language because so many spoke German. Kids do the bulk of assimilation.

Buddy has a Honduran who has worked for him for 25+ years and his English still sucks. His oldest just got a full academic ride to college.

You're in Arkansas, not Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California or New York.
08-30-2018 01:47 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Captain Bearcat Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,109
Joined: Jun 2010
Reputation: 251
I Root For: UC
Location: Normal, IL & Cincy
Post: #7
RE: Right Wing Collectivism
(08-30-2018 01:47 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-30-2018 09:48 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(08-30-2018 07:33 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-29-2018 09:16 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Assimilation is by and large a function of economics. If assimilation helps your economic success and there is a path to such success then people assimilate.

All but a few countries in Europe have significantly higher immigrant unemployment than the US and significantly more problems.

Europe also appears to have greater numbers of non-economic migrants who aren't there seeking work.

Not at all. Its about pace. If you have a constant flood of immigrants, separate communities remain. If it slows down, they assimilate. That is what happened after the mass immigration from 1880-1920. It is what is happening among a lot of groups. It isn't happening among recent Latin immigrants.

The flood assimilated as the economics forced them to.

I'm working today in a town in Arkansas that has had a big Hispanic influx, the only ones not assimilating are the newest ones and they are stuck gutting chickens. The others are in supervisor positions, or starting their own businesses.

Outside of the more educated immigrants, the historic pattern is parents take unskilled work, children assimilate because they have superior language skills.

German was nearly the official language because so many spoke German. Kids do the bulk of assimilation.

Buddy has a Honduran who has worked for him for 25+ years and his English still sucks. His oldest just got a full academic ride to college.

You're in Arkansas, not Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California or New York.

I just moved away from San Diego. Had a lot of Mexican-American friends. The 3rd and 4th generation Mexicans are indistinguishable from Americans in pretty much any socioeconomic characteristic. Their attitudes are middle-American through-and-through, just as much as a farmer from Iowa.

In fact, I would joke that in California, the Mexicans are the only real Americans (because the white people are either bat-$hit crazy liberals or podunk rednecks, many of the Asians are in their own closed-off world, and there's very few blacks).

Mexicans (and Filiipinos) are just the latest generation of Catholic immigrants to fill up the American pews. All the evidence shows that they're assimilating at the same rate as earlier waves.

The immigrants who aren't assimilating are the ones from non-Christian countries who come in numbers large enough to form their own subcultures. Chinese-Americans in SF, Muslim-Americans in Detroit, etc. I know a Turk who moved to small-town Indiana and he's assimilating so fast that he's not even teaching his kids Turkish. But if he was in a bigger city with lots of Turks, he'd probably be hanging around with mostly other Turks and he wouldn't assimilate so fast just out of force of habit.
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2018 03:00 PM by Captain Bearcat.)
10-25-2018 02:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 23,177
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 698
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #8
RE: Right Wing Collectivism
(08-30-2018 01:47 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-30-2018 09:48 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(08-30-2018 07:33 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-29-2018 09:16 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Assimilation is by and large a function of economics. If assimilation helps your economic success and there is a path to such success then people assimilate.

All but a few countries in Europe have significantly higher immigrant unemployment than the US and significantly more problems.

Europe also appears to have greater numbers of non-economic migrants who aren't there seeking work.

Not at all. Its about pace. If you have a constant flood of immigrants, separate communities remain. If it slows down, they assimilate. That is what happened after the mass immigration from 1880-1920. It is what is happening among a lot of groups. It isn't happening among recent Latin immigrants.

The flood assimilated as the economics forced them to.

I'm working today in a town in Arkansas that has had a big Hispanic influx, the only ones not assimilating are the newest ones and they are stuck gutting chickens. The others are in supervisor positions, or starting their own businesses.

Outside of the more educated immigrants, the historic pattern is parents take unskilled work, children assimilate because they have superior language skills.

German was nearly the official language because so many spoke German. Kids do the bulk of assimilation.

Buddy has a Honduran who has worked for him for 25+ years and his English still sucks. His oldest just got a full academic ride to college.

You're in Arkansas, not Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California or New York.
Springdale, fourth largest city in the state is over 36% Hispanic. Rogers, the 8th largest in 23%, Hope the hometown of Bill Clinton and Mike Huckabee is 23%. Fort Smith, second largest city is 22% Hispanic. Batesville with just under 11,000 residents and was 14% Hispanic last census has two large poultry plants and now has two Hispanic grocery stores and several restaurants and the school has had to hire ESL staff.

No we aren't one of the border states nor New York but agriculture and the processing agriculture products is huge business.
10-25-2018 03:02 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2019 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2019 MyBB Group.