(08-23-2018 11:53 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 11:35 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 10:31 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Not liberal though as the GOP continues its march away from Reaganism I guess some might believe I'm a liberal.

Impeachment is a political process nothing more and nothing less.
If a majority of the House believes that a Facebook post of a Federal judge eating a hot dog with ketchup is a high crime or misdemeanor and passes said article and 2/3rds of the Senate agrees, it is a high crime or misdemeanor.

There is no appeal and the only thing that can be done about is for the voters at home to get mad and elect new people.

Based on the facts known today, the Congress isn't going to impeach the president. Essentially no Democrat trying to grab a seat is campaigning for impeachment.

The impeachment talk right now is coming from the GOP hoping to motivate the base to show up in November.

It's a big nothing burger.

If true they have done a good job of getting the MSM of carrying the banner for them. I think one radio host said there have been over 200 mentions of impeachment since noon yesterday. Either way, impeachment is a sure loser for democrats in Nov.

it would be an issue for some but applauded by others. As of 6/22, 43% of Americans favored impeachment... which was equal to Nixon. Public approval to impeach Clinton never topped 30%. Too, back in June, Trump had not been implicated in a felony by his lawyer so the percentage is likely higher now. I don't think impeachment talk will get serious until after the midterms and after the Mueller findings are released.

Serious question. Mueller has been looking for a while now. If he had something, anything, I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't be made public before the election and honestly I figured whatever he had was coming in July or at very latest by the end of Aug. Now for the question. Would Mueller intentionally hold something until after the mid-terms if he had something? I would like to believe that if he is somewhat reputable and despite the fact he filled his team with anti-trump individuals, he wouldn't drop anything within 75 days of the midterms which is rapidly approaching. If he holds (or doesn't currently have anything) what motivation is there for him to wrap up the investigation after the mid-terms? At that point it becomes job security and a somewhat effective way to hamstring Trump.

(08-23-2018 08:55 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  First off, I think the jury's out on whether or not Trump gets impeached.

The odds of impeachment are directly proportional to how many seats the Democrats get in the House, above 218.

(08-23-2018 09:47 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  I think Trump's impeachment in the House is inevitable, if the Democrats take control of it.

They would need a small cushion of seats to make up for a few defectors from conservative/toss-up districts. It’s hard to say without knowing exactly who gets elected this year, but my hunch is the cut-off line is about 225-210. If the Dems’ majority is larger than that, impeachment is a done deal. If not, it won’t happen.

Quote:I think Trump could get convicted in the Senate, if the Mueller report is particularly damning and the Democrats make big gains in the midterms. It would be a long shot, though.

To get Trump actually removed from office (without an election), you would have to get a lot of red-state Republican senators to go along. That will require evidence — *real* evidence, not something Lanny Davis pulls out of Cohen’s @ss — light-years beyond anything that has even been alleged so far, never mind proven.

(08-23-2018 09:50 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 09:47 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  I do wonder if Trump could be forced out with a deal if his son, Don Jr gets implicated and indicted.

That sounds suspiciously like blackmail.

It sounds exactly like blackmail. So what? Do you think the pro-impeachment forces (or the anti- ) would draw the line at that?

(08-23-2018 10:31 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Based on the facts known today, the Congress isn't going to impeach the president. Essentially no Democrat trying to grab a seat is campaigning for impeachment.

So you think they won’t impeach because they didn’t openly campaign on it? Seriously?

Quote:The impeachment talk right now is coming from the GOP hoping to motivate the base to show up in November.

The GOP (in this instance. Not always) wants people to understand what’s at stake.

More proof the Earth is flat then there is any laws were broken.

In fact, if any law was broken, it was the unwritten rule of not upsetting liberals sensibilities.

(08-23-2018 09:52 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 08:55 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  First off, I think the jury's out on whether or not Trump gets impeached.

That said, I disagree with just about everything Pence supports, but I think he at least has a modicum of decency, unlike the current person sitting in the Oval Office. I also think he wouldn't make a laughing stock out of the US every time he opens his mouth.

I couldn't stand GWB either, but I'd trade him for Trump in a heartbeat. It's not all about a "team" winning.

And yet you would have Hillary instead, she who is orders of magnitude more dishonest than our current POTUS, she who would as soon spit on you as to look at you, I don't get it.

While Hillary isn't my favorite candidate, you are flat-out delusional if you think she is more dishonest than Trump. That's one thing Trump has in spades over just about anyone.

(08-23-2018 12:23 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 09:52 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 08:55 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  First off, I think the jury's out on whether or not Trump gets impeached.

That said, I disagree with just about everything Pence supports, but I think he at least has a modicum of decency, unlike the current person sitting in the Oval Office. I also think he wouldn't make a laughing stock out of the US every time he opens his mouth.

I couldn't stand GWB either, but I'd trade him for Trump in a heartbeat. It's not all about a "team" winning.

And yet you would have Hillary instead, she who is orders of magnitude more dishonest than our current POTUS, she who would as soon spit on you as to look at you, I don't get it.

While Hillary isn't my favorite candidate, you are flat-out delusional if you think she is more dishonest than Trump. That's one thing Trump has in spades over just about anyone.

The only thing Trump lied to me about was that I would get sick and tired of winning. Well, I'm not!

Oh, and Clinton is less dishonest ?! C'mon. That is a weak take. That is AOL chatroom circa 1998 weak.

(08-23-2018 12:30 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 12:23 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 09:52 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 08:55 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  First off, I think the jury's out on whether or not Trump gets impeached.

That said, I disagree with just about everything Pence supports, but I think he at least has a modicum of decency, unlike the current person sitting in the Oval Office. I also think he wouldn't make a laughing stock out of the US every time he opens his mouth.

I couldn't stand GWB either, but I'd trade him for Trump in a heartbeat. It's not all about a "team" winning.

And yet you would have Hillary instead, she who is orders of magnitude more dishonest than our current POTUS, she who would as soon spit on you as to look at you, I don't get it.

While Hillary isn't my favorite candidate, you are flat-out delusional if you think she is more dishonest than Trump. That's one thing Trump has in spades over just about anyone.

The only thing Trump lied to me about was that I would get sick and tired of winning. Well, I'm not!

Oh, and Clinton is less dishonest ?! C'mon. That is a weak take. That is AOL chatroom circa 1998 weak.

If you think that's the only thing Trump's lied to you about, you haven't been paying attention. The AOL reference is hilarious, though. Doesn't make it true, though.

(08-23-2018 08:30 AM)bobdizole Wrote:  Mike Pence on the issues

What is your end game here? Knowing where Mike Pence stands on the issues, do you really think you or this country for that matter would benefit from impeaching Trump? Aside from a few issues, DJT is fairly moderate and you would be removing him in favor of a hard line conservative. Would it not be better for the democratic party to lick your wounds and suck it up for 2 more years and try to remove the whole cabal?

An impeachment of trump would not be FOR ME or FOR THE LEFT. It would be for the country and only if and because it was warranted.

I don't want it for the sake of wanting it. I don't give a rats ass who replaces him.

It's about country. Period.

(08-23-2018 09:50 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 09:47 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  I think Trump's impeachment in the House is inevitable, if the Democrats take control of it. No way Trump's lawyer implicates him in a felony and a Democratic House just lets it go.

And I think Trump could get convicted in the Senate, if the Mueller report is particularly damning and the Democrats make big gains in the midterms. It would be a long shot, though.

I do wonder if Trump could be forced out with a deal if his son, Don Jr gets implicated and indicted.

That sounds suspiciously like blackmail.

Mean like exactly what they did to Gen. Flynn? That kinda blackmail?

(08-23-2018 01:07 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 09:50 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 09:47 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  I think Trump's impeachment in the House is inevitable, if the Democrats take control of it. No way Trump's lawyer implicates him in a felony and a Democratic House just lets it go.

And I think Trump could get convicted in the Senate, if the Mueller report is particularly damning and the Democrats make big gains in the midterms. It would be a long shot, though.

I do wonder if Trump could be forced out with a deal if his son, Don Jr gets implicated and indicted.

That sounds suspiciously like blackmail.

Mean like exactly what they did to Gen. Flynn? That kinda blackmail?

That's the kind. Almost like the same kind as getting Cohen to plead guilty to something that isn't a crime so they can implicate Trump since they had him dead to rights on the tax charges.

(08-23-2018 12:51 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 08:30 AM)bobdizole Wrote:  Mike Pence on the issues

What is your end game here? Knowing where Mike Pence stands on the issues, do you really think you or this country for that matter would benefit from impeaching Trump? Aside from a few issues, DJT is fairly moderate and you would be removing him in favor of a hard line conservative. Would it not be better for the democratic party to lick your wounds and suck it up for 2 more years and try to remove the whole cabal?

An impeachment of trump would not be FOR ME or FOR THE LEFT. It would be for the country and only if and because it was warranted.

I don't want it for the sake of wanting it. I don't give a rats ass who replaces him.

It's about country. Period.

Very astute and insightful. As for me, I hope he isn’t impeached. I prefer to see him humiliated and defeated at the ballot box. He lost the vote last time, and he’ll lose the electoral college in stunning fashion next time. The country is better off with him being removed that way, but as you said, he should be impeached if warranted. And only the lunatic right-wingers deny that possibility.

(08-23-2018 01:24 PM)Momus Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 12:51 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 08:30 AM)bobdizole Wrote:  Mike Pence on the issues

What is your end game here? Knowing where Mike Pence stands on the issues, do you really think you or this country for that matter would benefit from impeaching Trump? Aside from a few issues, DJT is fairly moderate and you would be removing him in favor of a hard line conservative. Would it not be better for the democratic party to lick your wounds and suck it up for 2 more years and try to remove the whole cabal?

An impeachment of trump would not be FOR ME or FOR THE LEFT. It would be for the country and only if and because it was warranted.

I don't want it for the sake of wanting it. I don't give a rats ass who replaces him.

It's about country. Period.

Very astute and insightful. As for me, I hope he isn’t impeached. I prefer to see him humiliated and defeated at the ballot box. He lost the vote last time, and he’ll lose the electoral college in stunning fashion next time. The country is better off with him being removed that way, but as you said, he should be impeached if warranted. And only the lunatic right-wingers deny that possibility.

why do you hate the Constitution?

The end goal isn't to have Trump removed from office. It is to simply impeach him to win political points. Just a way to fire up the base and drive turnout in November. If Democrats take the house in November then impeachment becomes a way to continue the narrative in hopes of injuring Trunps ability to win in 2020. It also becomes another way to fire up a the base in an attempt to retake the Senate in 2020.

(08-23-2018 02:05 PM)pkptigers07 Wrote:  The end goal isn't to have Trump removed from office. It is to simply impeach him to win political points. Just a way to fire up the base and drive turnout in November. If Democrats take the house in November then impeachment becomes a way to continue the narrative in hopes of injuring Trunps ability to win in 2020. It also becomes another way to fire up a the base in an attempt to retake the Senate in 2020.

I'm not in favor of impeachment unless I see way more than what I'm currently seeing. As I've said on numerous occasions I'd rather see him resign in disgrace first to spare the country the embarrassing spectacle.

And FWIW - If the democrats take the house and immediately become consumed with impeachment proceedings on what we currently know (or rather don't know yet for certain) they'll make a huge mistake and likely only make trump more popular and more electable in 2020.

(08-23-2018 02:05 PM)pkptigers07 Wrote:  The end goal isn't to have Trump removed from office. It is to simply impeach him to win political points. Just a way to fire up the base and drive turnout in November. If Democrats take the house in November then impeachment becomes a way to continue the narrative in hopes of injuring Trunps ability to win in 2020. It also becomes another way to fire up a the base in an attempt to retake the Senate in 2020.

Completely disagree. The goal is absolutely to have Trump removed. He's illegitimate. He colluded with Russia to steal the election from HRC. It was her turn. She stood by Bill, she shut up like a good little girl when Obama won. She deserves to be president. Trump is ruining this country by looking out for US interests and not bowing to the UN. It's unfair that the US isn't being punished for our evil, ways from the current runaway pollution to rampant racism to the wage gap. Everyday he remains president millions of liberals are irreversibly harmed and unfairly oppressed.

(08-23-2018 12:23 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 09:52 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 08:55 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  First off, I think the jury's out on whether or not Trump gets impeached.

That said, I disagree with just about everything Pence supports, but I think he at least has a modicum of decency, unlike the current person sitting in the Oval Office. I also think he wouldn't make a laughing stock out of the US every time he opens his mouth.

I couldn't stand GWB either, but I'd trade him for Trump in a heartbeat. It's not all about a "team" winning.

And yet you would have Hillary instead, she who is orders of magnitude more dishonest than our current POTUS, she who would as soon spit on you as to look at you, I don't get it.

While Hillary isn't my favorite candidate, you are flat-out delusional if you think she is more dishonest than Trump. That's one thing Trump has in spades over just about anyone.

Clinton's strength is understanding when to call counsel, follow their advice, and shut the hell up.

Clinton has been investigated numerous times and never "exonerated" but rather a lot of "not best practices", "within the letter of the law" type findings.

Clinton's intelligence is understanding that what you want to do is possibly illegal and using good legal advice to find a way to do it without explicitly breaking laws.

I don't think that makes her or husband any more "moral" but it has kept them from getting in big trouble.

The president on the other hand is the sort of guy you never want to represent because he isn't going to listen to your advice and then declare you are stupid if he does his own thing and it works out or blame you for sucking as a lawyer if he ends up in trouble from ignoring your advice and sooner or later you end up having to write a bunch of crap up for your malpractice carrier as well as do a lot of file copying for them.

(08-23-2018 02:10 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 02:05 PM)pkptigers07 Wrote:  The end goal isn't to have Trump removed from office. It is to simply impeach him to win political points. Just a way to fire up the base and drive turnout in November. If Democrats take the house in November then impeachment becomes a way to continue the narrative in hopes of injuring Trunps ability to win in 2020. It also becomes another way to fire up a the base in an attempt to retake the Senate in 2020.

I'm not in favor of impeachment unless I see way more than what I'm currently seeing. As I've said on numerous occasions I'd rather see him resign in disgrace first to spare the country the embarrassing spectacle.

And FWIW - If the democrats take the house and immediately become consumed with impeachment proceedings on what we currently know (or rather don't know yet for certain) they'll make a huge mistake and likely only make trump more popular and more electable in 2020.

The Clinton impeachment ought to serve as a warning. You don't undertake what is essentially the ultimate political nuclear option unless there is broad public support or the actions that can be proven are just so egregious that the integrity of the union is in doubt.

The majority of Americans don't much like the president but that doesn't equal broad public support for removing him from office. If his approval sinks in around 25% and moderate voices are declaring the president no longer can be president, then there is something to talk about. When Goldwater, Scott, and Rhodes went to Nixon and told him that the articles of impeachment would pass and the Senate would convict (ie. they were sure more than 11 Republican senators would vote to convict) that ended that. We are a long long long way from all the Democrats and 18 Republicans voting to convict.

The public mood isn't there and the things we can say with certainty that the president did at this point aren't going to result in 1/3rd or more of the people who support the president declaring it's time for him to go.

(08-23-2018 12:23 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 09:52 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 08:55 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  First off, I think the jury's out on whether or not Trump gets impeached.

That said, I disagree with just about everything Pence supports, but I think he at least has a modicum of decency, unlike the current person sitting in the Oval Office. I also think he wouldn't make a laughing stock out of the US every time he opens his mouth.

I couldn't stand GWB either, but I'd trade him for Trump in a heartbeat. It's not all about a "team" winning.

And yet you would have Hillary instead, she who is orders of magnitude more dishonest than our current POTUS, she who would as soon spit on you as to look at you, I don't get it.

While Hillary isn't my favorite candidate, you are flat-out delusional if you think she is more dishonest than Trump. That's one thing Trump has in spades over just about anyone.

speaking of delusional.

(08-23-2018 01:24 PM)Momus Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 12:51 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 08:30 AM)bobdizole Wrote:  Mike Pence on the issues

What is your end game here? Knowing where Mike Pence stands on the issues, do you really think you or this country for that matter would benefit from impeaching Trump? Aside from a few issues, DJT is fairly moderate and you would be removing him in favor of a hard line conservative. Would it not be better for the democratic party to lick your wounds and suck it up for 2 more years and try to remove the whole cabal?

An impeachment of trump would not be FOR ME or FOR THE LEFT. It would be for the country and only if and because it was warranted.

I don't want it for the sake of wanting it. I don't give a rats ass who replaces him.

It's about country. Period.

Very astute and insightful. As for me, I hope he isn’t impeached. I prefer to see him humiliated and defeated at the ballot box. He lost the vote last time, and he’ll lose the electoral college in stunning fashion next time. The country is better off with him being removed that way, but as you said, he should be impeached if warranted. And only the lunatic right-wingers deny that possibility.

Speaking of lunatics.

(08-23-2018 02:13 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 02:05 PM)pkptigers07 Wrote:  The end goal isn't to have Trump removed from office. It is to simply impeach him to win political points. Just a way to fire up the base and drive turnout in November. If Democrats take the house in November then impeachment becomes a way to continue the narrative in hopes of injuring Trunps ability to win in 2020. It also becomes another way to fire up a the base in an attempt to retake the Senate in 2020.

Completely disagree. The goal is absolutely to have Trump removed. He's illegitimate. He colluded with Russia to steal the election from HRC. It was her turn. She stood by Bill, she shut up like a good little girl when Obama won. She deserves to be president. Trump is ruining this country by looking out for US interests and not bowing to the UN. It's unfair that the US isn't being punished for our evil, ways from the current runaway pollution to rampant racism to the wage gap. Everyday he remains president millions of liberals are irreversibly harmed and unfairly oppressed.

It's just so unfair!

(08-23-2018 03:20 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 02:10 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 02:05 PM)pkptigers07 Wrote:  The end goal isn't to have Trump removed from office. It is to simply impeach him to win political points. Just a way to fire up the base and drive turnout in November. If Democrats take the house in November then impeachment becomes a way to continue the narrative in hopes of injuring Trunps ability to win in 2020. It also becomes another way to fire up a the base in an attempt to retake the Senate in 2020.

I'm not in favor of impeachment unless I see way more than what I'm currently seeing. As I've said on numerous occasions I'd rather see him resign in disgrace first to spare the country the embarrassing spectacle.

And FWIW - If the democrats take the house and immediately become consumed with impeachment proceedings on what we currently know (or rather don't know yet for certain) they'll make a huge mistake and likely only make trump more popular and more electable in 2020.

The Clinton impeachment ought to serve as a warning. You don't undertake what is essentially the ultimate political nuclear option unless there is broad public support or the actions that can be proven are just so egregious that the integrity of the union is in doubt.

The majority of Americans don't much like the president but that doesn't equal broad public support for removing him from office. If his approval sinks in around 25% and moderate voices are declaring the president no longer can be president, then there is something to talk about. When Goldwater, Scott, and Rhodes went to Nixon and told him that the articles of impeachment would pass and the Senate would convict (ie. they were sure more than 11 Republican senators would vote to convict) that ended that. We are a long long long way from all the Democrats and 18 Republicans voting to convict.

The public mood isn't there and the things we can say with certainty that the president did at this point aren't going to result in 1/3rd or more of the people who support the president declaring it's time for him to go.

If true it's by the slimmest of margins.