Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Debunking Socialist Myths: 90 Percent Of Scandinavia’s Wealth Is Privately Owned
Author Message
Lord Stanley Offline
L'Étoile du Nord
*

Posts: 19,103
Joined: Feb 2005
Reputation: 994
I Root For: NIU
Location: Cold. So cold......
Post: #1
Debunking Socialist Myths: 90 Percent Of Scandinavia’s Wealth Is Privately Owned
Debunking Socialist Myths: 90 Percent Of Scandinavia’s Wealth Is Privately Owned

The Bruenig standard indicates Scandinavia is less socialist than the average non-Scandinavian country, including the United States under the most conservative presidency of our lifetime.

Quote:If we’re going to have “good-faith arguments,” a good place to start would be to abandon discredited myths about Scandinavia, begin telling the full truth about “democratic” socialism, and stop pretending that the experiences of 5 million Norwegians who live in one of the freest economies in the world better represent this system than the lives of the 42 million people in Venezuela and my family’s native Cuba that suffer under this ideology daily.

Quote:Regardless of party labels, we need to come together and call out democratic socialism for what it is: a scam being perpetrated on the American people by a few who prey upon the blitheful ignorance of many in the hope it will net them political power. It must be vociferously denounced with an equally fierce defense of our shared American values.

http://thefederalist.com/2018/08/17/debu...ely-owned/
08-21-2018 10:34 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply

Owl 69/70/75 Online
Just an old rugby coach
*

Posts: 59,421
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation: 1290
I Root For: RiceBathChelsea
Location: Montgomery, TX

DonatorsNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #2
RE: Debunking Socialist Myths: 90 Percent Of Scandinavia’s Wealth Is Privately Owned
I have maintained for some time that Scandinavia and other "European socialist" nations are in fact less "socialist" that those who espouse "democratic socialism" would have us believe, and in fact much less "socialist" than are the ideas of those self-styled "democratic socialists."

The key to me is when redistribution of income and wealth becomes the primary policy objective. The Scandinavian and European philosophy is to provide a safety net. Everybody benefits (including the "rich") and everybody pays (including the "poor"). That is very different from our system. We have much more "means testing" (thank republicans for that) and generally a much more "progressive" tax system (no national consumption tax, higher corporate tax rates--at least until the 2017 tax law, and generally flatter individual tax rate structures). Thus our system is specifically designed to transfer income and wealth from "rich" to "poor." But a few observations:
1) The "means testing" forms a significant barrier for poor people trying to climb out of poverty; get a job, lose your benefits.
2) The need for so many gate-keepers drives the costs of programs through the roof; with a Bismarck system that essentially eliminates gate-keepers, France provides universal health care at a lower per capita cost to government than our hit-or-miss system.
3) Democrats have proved that they can buy voted with benefits, and win elections so long as there are more takers than makers. "Keep 'em dumb, keep 'em poor, keep 'em dependent on handouts, and you will keep 'em voting democrat."
4) The "rich" don't like being stolen from, and as long as they have other options they will exercise them. And there will always be a Cayman Islands, or somewhere, willing to offer them options.
08-21-2018 10:59 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 23,148
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 695
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #3
RE: Debunking Socialist Myths: 90 Percent Of Scandinavia’s Wealth Is Privately Owned
(08-21-2018 10:59 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I have maintained for some time that Scandinavia and other "European socialist" nations are in fact less "socialist" that those who espouse "democratic socialism" would have us believe, and in fact much less "socialist" than are the ideas of those self-styled "democratic socialists."

The key to me is when redistribution of income and wealth becomes the primary policy objective. The Scandinavian and European philosophy is to provide a safety net. Everybody benefits (including the "rich") and everybody pays (including the "poor"). That is very different from our system. We have much more "means testing" (thank republicans for that) and generally a much more "progressive" tax system (no national consumption tax, higher corporate tax rates--at least until the 2017 tax law, and generally flatter individual tax rate structures). Thus our system is specifically designed to transfer income and wealth from "rich" to "poor." But a few observations:
1) The "means testing" forms a significant barrier for poor people trying to climb out of poverty; get a job, lose your benefits.
2) The need for so many gate-keepers drives the costs of programs through the roof; with a Bismarck system that essentially eliminates gate-keepers, France provides universal health care at a lower per capita cost to government than our hit-or-miss system.
3) Democrats have proved that they can buy voted with benefits, and win elections so long as there are more takers than makers. "Keep 'em dumb, keep 'em poor, keep 'em dependent on handouts, and you will keep 'em voting democrat."
4) The "rich" don't like being stolen from, and as long as they have other options they will exercise them. And there will always be a Cayman Islands, or somewhere, willing to offer them options.

Much of the European "socialism" as you note is not socialism. Best I've been able to figure is that during the post-war era when so much of the infrastructure was ruined, unemployment was high, there were housing shortages and food shortages and as result communist and socialist parties were growing stronger. The governments created large safety nets to quell the growing unrest and to head off movements toward government taking over private capital.

Few of them actually veered into true socialism, The UK was probably the most socialist already owning the phone, broadcasting, airline, coal, etc. The government even owned Jaguar.

The Scandinavian nations fully embraced the safety net and adopted a health system more similar to Germany keeping it mostly private with government collecting the taxes used to pay those private providers and setting prices.

They embraced consumer side capitalism. Their approach has been that people holding capital are not "job creators" but rather investors seeking the greatest return and the best way for them to get a good return that benefits the community is for consumers to have the ability to purchase goods and their demand for goods will make putting capital into factories and labor a good investment.

Most employ a strategy of low corporate tax rates to benefit the corporation but have higher income taxes which encourages shareholders to want the company to invest profits and grow value rather than dispensing profits via dividends.

During the recession, Germany paid many companies to not lay off employees because it was cheaper for the government to do that than pay unemployment benefits which tend to be around 70% of salary with extensive training benefits. So idled equipment was given maintenance work, factories were cleaned and painted as companies found busy work for their employees while receiving money from the government to keep them on the job.

Rather than socialism, it is like a "compassionate capitalism".
08-21-2018 11:58 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2019 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2019 MyBB Group.