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Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
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Attackcoog Offline
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Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
I can only imagine how this push will be interpeted by realignment buffs.

“We have a great undergraduate program here at OU, we’ve created a wonderful undergraduate experience,” Gallogly said. “It’s time to broaden that base and build out a more robust graduate program. We’re going to double the amount of research we do today because at this point that’s about the only thing that keeps us from being an AAU-type institution.”


http://www.oudaily.com/news/james-gallog...62296.html
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2018 01:06 PM by Attackcoog.)
08-17-2018 01:02 PM
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RE: Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
(08-17-2018 01:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I can only imagine how this push will be interpeted by realignment buffs.

“We have a great undergraduate program here at OU, we’ve created a wonderful undergraduate experience,” Gallogly said. “It’s time to broaden that base and build out a more robust graduate program. We’re going to double the amount of research we do today because at this point that’s about the only thing that keeps us from being an AAU-type institution.”


http://www.oudaily.com/news/james-gallog...62296.html

He's just doing what any university president should do, aim high, address the problems, and try to gain some momentum. I noted he said an "AAU type" school.

Right now Oklahoma academics are behind a good number of other more worthy AAU applicants. He can't promise that they'll get there. But doubling their research is a good start and if he can do that it will also help the kind of faculty he can attract.

Making those moves could help the Big 10 justify their inclusion, would make them more attractive to the PAC and even the SEC, but more importantly it does help the school whether their sports affiliate with any of those conferences or not.

Right now however he has the deficit situation to handle. Tossing out the AAU tag line helped to cover the more daunting task of attracting students to Oklahoma and closing their deficit in a state where high school funding is very tight.
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2018 01:11 PM by JRsec.)
08-17-2018 01:11 PM
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RE: Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
The AAU has not added universities since Georgia Tech was added in 2010 and Boston University was added in 2012. Before that, Texas A&M and Stony Brook University (SUNY) were added in 2001.

It is a long, tedious process to gain admission. As JRsec mentioned, OU would be standing in line behind others.

There are 60 U.S. and 2 Canadian universities that are members.

There are some non-member universities that are stronger academically, and with research, than some current AAU members. The key is that once accepted, a school sustains the requirements. Also historically, AAU has been a higher education lobbying group, which in previous decades, politically impacted some schools willingness to pursue membership.
08-17-2018 01:56 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
(08-17-2018 01:56 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  The AAU has not added universities since Georgia Tech was added in 2010 and Boston University was added in 2012. Before that, Texas A&M and Stony Brook University (SUNY) were added in 2001.

It is a long, tedious process to gain admission. As JRsec mentioned, OU would be standing in line behind others.

There are 60 U.S. and 2 Canadian universities that are members.

There are some non-member universities that are stronger academically, and with research, than some current AAU members. The key is that once accepted, a school sustains the requirements. Also historically, AAU has been a higher education lobbying group, which in previous decades, politically impacted some schools willingness to pursue membership.

QFT. Consider how good the likes of GT, BU, A&M and SBU are already. There are those schools with some stroke that are going to be ahead of OU. Heck, there's still an Ivy League school that isn't in it...yet.

And we can't look at this as straight research dollar intake. There are plenty of politics underneath this all. Consider that Nebraska, before it was kicked out, crunched their numbers and threw it to the group that it was doing more work than the mighty Princeton, or the tiny Ivy-lite's Rice and Brandeis...they may have been right in Lincoln...nobody's going to toss out Princeton. I wonder if someone like Lehigh or Bucknell have a better chance getting there before OU ever does.
08-17-2018 02:12 PM
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RE: Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
Out of curiosity, just anyone know what the waiting list looks like? Or what the pecking order might be?

Yes, it's easy to see the OU-to-B1G realignment connection there with the AAU reference, but - as JR said - this should, ideally, be the goal of every university president. Anything you can do to improve the academics, the perception and the performance of the school is gold for alumni and potential applicants.
08-17-2018 02:59 PM
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RE: Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
(08-17-2018 02:12 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  And we can't look at this as straight research dollar intake.

That's not because of politics, it's because the research community ranks the amount of highly-regarded research ahead of just throwing whatever amount of money into one bucket and labeling that bucket "research".

Caltech and Princeton, for example, are relatively small institutions. Princeton has about 900 full-time faculty. Caltech has about 300. They're ranked highly by research peers -- they're both top 10 worldwide in the ARWU ranking, for example -- because of the amount of top-notch research produced per capita. AAU reflects similar priorities. I'm pretty sure that of all the US universities ranked in ARWU's worldwide top 100, the only ones not in AAU are those not eligible because their institution doesn't offer undergraduate degrees (e.g., UC San Francisco and UT's Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas).
08-17-2018 03:09 PM
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RE: Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
(08-17-2018 02:59 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Out of curiosity, just anyone know what the waiting list looks like? Or what the pecking order might be?

Yes, it's easy to see the OU-to-B1G realignment connection there with the AAU reference, but - as JR said - this should, ideally, be the goal of every university president. Anything you can do to improve the academics, the perception and the performance of the school is gold for alumni and potential applicants.

A few years ago some of the schools bandied about were Dartmouth, Georgia and NC State. Cincinnati was also on the finalist list several years back but I doubt we would get in anytime soon.
08-17-2018 03:15 PM
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RE: Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
British Columbia, UConn and UMass. are also ahead of Oklahoma.
Someone pointed out that the D1 should have their own AAU type of association that could elevate schools like New Mexico, Colorado State, San Diego State, Houston, UCF, USF, Cincinnati, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and so forth into the higher rung. We already know that the D3 schools do not want to be associated with the D1 schools for sports which gives the expansion candidate pool for AAU schools very limited.
08-17-2018 03:22 PM
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RE: Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
This is a leaked document from the AAU to Nebraska that shows who was in line.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/...eview.html


Oklahoma isn’t even in the first 30 out.
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2018 03:58 PM by jrj84105.)
08-17-2018 03:52 PM
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RE: Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
(08-17-2018 03:52 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  This is a leaked document from the AAU to Nebraska that shows who was in line.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/...eview.html


Oklahoma isn’t even in the first 30 out.

It was interesting to see a page of potential schools ahead of Oklahoma who was 1/3 of a page ahead of Nebraska.
08-17-2018 04:00 PM
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RE: Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
Based on the Georgia Tech invite, I’m going to guess that when a non-AAU crosses the 50th percentile becoming better than an average AAU school, then changes will be made. There were only 3 FBS schools above the 25%. Otherwise there is a lot of history and inertia to overcome with few AAU schools down in Nebraska territory. Nebraska and 3 other AAU members (assuming one is Syracuse) were ranked far below the rest, and are probably the only schools at risk for being booted any time in the near future. Non-FBS schools are at the front of the line to move in as replacements, but the FBS schools were listed as follows:

UAB
Utah
Wake Forest
—-25th Percentile——
Miami
Cincinnati
Colorado State
Oregon State
New Mexico
Hawaii
UConn
—-AAU Member—-
ASU
USF
UMASS
VT
NC State
Oklahoma
——AAU Member——
FSU
Louisville
Kentucky
NM State
Notre Dame
Mississippi
South Carolina
Houston
——AAU——-
Utah State
Nevada
——Nebraska——
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2018 05:27 PM by jrj84105.)
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RE: Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
(08-17-2018 01:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I can only imagine how this push will be interpeted by realignment buffs.

“We have a great undergraduate program here at OU, we’ve created a wonderful undergraduate experience,” Gallogly said. “It’s time to broaden that base and build out a more robust graduate program. We’re going to double the amount of research we do today because at this point that’s about the only thing that keeps us from being an AAU-type institution.”


http://www.oudaily.com/news/james-gallog...62296.html

Big Ten !!!!!!!!!!!!!
08-17-2018 05:50 PM
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RE: Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
(08-17-2018 03:15 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(08-17-2018 02:59 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Out of curiosity, just anyone know what the waiting list looks like? Or what the pecking order might be?

Yes, it's easy to see the OU-to-B1G realignment connection there with the AAU reference, but - as JR said - this should, ideally, be the goal of every university president. Anything you can do to improve the academics, the perception and the performance of the school is gold for alumni and potential applicants.

A few years ago some of the schools bandied about were Dartmouth, Georgia and NC State. Cincinnati was also on the finalist list several years back but I doubt we would get in anytime soon.

NC State failed to get in by one vote back in 2011 (You must get 3/4th of the members or 47 votes. No public member and no votes have been held since 2012, when Boston was admitted. Since they keep the numbers relatively finite a school like Kansas, Oregon, etc., would likely need to be kicked out and then you likely get NC State, VT, and Cincy to a vote. Since Duke and UNC are already in and all three are in the same metro, it's a tough sled for NC State. The Big 10 only makes up 21% of the AAU, in fact no bloc can get you in (rough blocks are B10, PAC 12/California schools, Ivy League and NY/Mass schools with Carnige Mellon and Johns Hopkins, and a southern bloc of UNC, Duke, UVa, GT, Florida, Texas, Tulane, Vandy, TMAU and Mizzou.


Oklahoma would need 50 years of steady improvement to make the cut. AAU lite schools are research intensive, graduate research intensive - AAU lite would be NC State, VT, Cincy, UGa, UAB, and USF. My guess is that Kansas, then Mizzou are in the most "trouble". I also suspect that home state politics plays a role meaning that if UVa does not support VT, or UNC and Duke do not support NC State, that you have little to no chance.
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2018 06:42 PM by Statefan.)
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RE: Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
(08-17-2018 06:29 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(08-17-2018 03:15 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(08-17-2018 02:59 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Out of curiosity, just anyone know what the waiting list looks like? Or what the pecking order might be?

Yes, it's easy to see the OU-to-B1G realignment connection there with the AAU reference, but - as JR said - this should, ideally, be the goal of every university president. Anything you can do to improve the academics, the perception and the performance of the school is gold for alumni and potential applicants.

A few years ago some of the schools bandied about were Dartmouth, Georgia and NC State. Cincinnati was also on the finalist list several years back but I doubt we would get in anytime soon.

NC State failed to get in by one vote back in 2011 (You must get 3/4th of the members or 47 votes. No public member and no votes have been held since 2012, when Boston was admitted. Since they keep the numbers relatively finite a school like Kansas, Oregon, etc., would likely need to be kicked out and then you likely get NC State, VT, and Cincy to a vote. Since Duke and UNC are already in and all three are in the same metro, it's a tough sled for NC State. The Big 10 only makes up 21% of the AAU, in fact no bloc can get you in (rough blocks are B10, PAC 12/California schools, Ivy League and NY/Mass schools with Carnige Mellon and Johns Hopkins, and a southern bloc of UNC, Duke, UVa, GT, Florida, Texas, Tulane, Vandy, TMAU and Mizzou.


Oklahoma would need 50 years of steady improvement to make the cut.

I'd like a link to that vote reference, which is not some fan forum
08-17-2018 06:34 PM
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RE: Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
(08-17-2018 03:52 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  This is a leaked document from the AAU to Nebraska that shows who was in line.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/...eview.html


Oklahoma isn’t even in the first 30 out.

Really interesting find. +3 04-cheers
08-17-2018 06:37 PM
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RE: Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
(08-17-2018 06:34 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(08-17-2018 06:29 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(08-17-2018 03:15 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(08-17-2018 02:59 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Out of curiosity, just anyone know what the waiting list looks like? Or what the pecking order might be?

Yes, it's easy to see the OU-to-B1G realignment connection there with the AAU reference, but - as JR said - this should, ideally, be the goal of every university president. Anything you can do to improve the academics, the perception and the performance of the school is gold for alumni and potential applicants.

A few years ago some of the schools bandied about were Dartmouth, Georgia and NC State. Cincinnati was also on the finalist list several years back but I doubt we would get in anytime soon.

NC State failed to get in by one vote back in 2011 (You must get 3/4th of the members or 47 votes. No public member and no votes have been held since 2012, when Boston was admitted. Since they keep the numbers relatively finite a school like Kansas, Oregon, etc., would likely need to be kicked out and then you likely get NC State, VT, and Cincy to a vote. Since Duke and UNC are already in and all three are in the same metro, it's a tough sled for NC State. The Big 10 only makes up 21% of the AAU, in fact no bloc can get you in (rough blocks are B10, PAC 12/California schools, Ivy League and NY/Mass schools with Carnige Mellon and Johns Hopkins, and a southern bloc of UNC, Duke, UVa, GT, Florida, Texas, Tulane, Vandy, TMAU and Mizzou.


Oklahoma would need 50 years of steady improvement to make the cut.

I'd like a link to that vote reference, which is not some fan forum

It was in the Chronical of Higher Education about 6 or so years ago, first there is an article that let's the cat out of the bag regarding NC State and others because they got Randy Woodson to speak about AAU. Then came the vote and no one got the votes needed and that was discussed in a series of conversations back and forth at the bottom of one of the articles. I'll try to find the exact article. I actually heard the supposed vote total from folks at VT, who supposedly were told by UVa.
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RE: Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
(08-17-2018 06:37 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-17-2018 03:52 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  This is a leaked document from the AAU to Nebraska that shows who was in line.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/...eview.html


Oklahoma isn’t even in the first 30 out.

Really interesting find. +3 04-cheers

The eventual thrust of those documents was forcing Syracuse to quit. Also the size of the AAU has not increased since 1989 - Rutgers and SUNY Buffalo IIRC. Clark and American dropped and TAMU and Stoney took their place. GT took the place of Nebraska and Boston took the place of Syracuse.

If the numbers are not going to be upped, that means for OU to advance others must drop and OU would have to climb at least 15 rungs relative to everyone else. It would take 50 years if ever. The top 20-25 can not be dislodged - they can float around each other, but they are not exiting.
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2018 07:18 PM by Statefan.)
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RE: Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
(08-17-2018 05:10 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  Non-FBS schools are at the front of the line to move in

Right, if the AAU went by that list, the next three in, if they ever let more schools in, would be Yeshiva University, Dartmouth, and UAB. Last year's 16 vs. 1 winner, Maryland-Baltimore County, is pretty close, too. They'd have to watch out for Virginia vetoing them, though. 03-lmfao

(08-17-2018 05:10 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  Nebraska and 3 other AAU members (assuming one is Syracuse) were ranked far below the rest, and are probably the only schools at risk for being booted any time in the near future.

I think this list was discussed previously -- maybe on another message board? -- and #105, the lowest ranked school listed as "AAU", is Syracuse.

#87 and 94, the next two lowest-ranked current AAU members, have medical schools (indicated by the "M" on the list). You can make some pretty good guesses about the identity of those schools by looking at published rankings of research universities and seeing which AAU members are ranked much lower than most other AAU members.
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2018 07:13 PM by Wedge.)
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RE: Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
The Nebraska ranking list is interesting as among the AAU schools but not current members are

(1 & 2 are grad schools, not eligible)

31 Yesheva (R2)
37 Dartmouth (R2)

40 UAB
43 Tufts
43 UMBC (R2)
48 Utah
52 UC Santa Cruz
55 RPI (R2)
57 Wake Forest (R2)
59 Miami (FL)
61 UIC
62 Cincy
64 Colorado State
67 Oregon State
68 GWU
69 New Mexico
72 Wayne State
72 UC Riverside

We were probably beyond the consideration line at 50. The Carnegie R2 schools are out too.

UAB is skewed by the med school, and I think everyone knows that, which is why they are never considered. Tufts is probably too narrow focused. Thus Utah, Santa Cruz, and longer shot Miami are probably the extent of the possibles at the moment.

NC State, VT, and OU are sitting at 91. There is no way in hell NC State was under consideration. What a laughable lie.
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RE: Oklahoma President Increasing Research To Improve AAU Metrics
(08-17-2018 06:29 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(08-17-2018 03:15 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(08-17-2018 02:59 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Out of curiosity, just anyone know what the waiting list looks like? Or what the pecking order might be?

Yes, it's easy to see the OU-to-B1G realignment connection there with the AAU reference, but - as JR said - this should, ideally, be the goal of every university president. Anything you can do to improve the academics, the perception and the performance of the school is gold for alumni and potential applicants.

A few years ago some of the schools bandied about were Dartmouth, Georgia and NC State. Cincinnati was also on the finalist list several years back but I doubt we would get in anytime soon.

NC State failed to get in by one vote back in 2011 (You must get 3/4th of the members or 47 votes. No public member and no votes have been held since 2012, when Boston was admitted. Since they keep the numbers relatively finite a school like Kansas, Oregon, etc., would likely need to be kicked out and then you likely get NC State, VT, and Cincy to a vote. Since Duke and UNC are already in and all three are in the same metro, it's a tough sled for NC State. The Big 10 only makes up 21% of the AAU, in fact no bloc can get you in (rough blocks are B10, PAC 12/California schools, Ivy League and NY/Mass schools with Carnige Mellon and Johns Hopkins, and a southern bloc of UNC, Duke, UVa, GT, Florida, Texas, Tulane, Vandy, TMAU and Mizzou.


Oklahoma would need 50 years of steady improvement to make the cut. AAU lite schools are research intensive, graduate research intensive - AAU lite would be NC State, VT, Cincy, UGa, UAB, and USF. My guess is that Kansas, then Mizzou are in the most "trouble". I also suspect that home state politics plays a role meaning that if UVa does not support VT, or UNC and Duke do not support NC State, that you have little to no chance.

I think Kansas and Missouri are good guesses. Buffalo, Stonybrook, Oregon, and Iowa State are others that I think are at least in the bottom 25%.
08-17-2018 07:21 PM
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