(08-17-2018 11:14 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  As I mentioned in my original post.....

For as long as I can remember the endorsing of political candidates by a news outlet (news papers most specifically) is an immediate compromise of any journalistic biases. As soon as you announce your favorite, anything you report is going to be looked at as favoring one over the other - and in the world we live in today, everybody is in the business of "opinion journalism" not "fact journalism".

it's always been op-ed steering since I've been alive and before......

it's simply more in one's face these days with a shitepile of force fed feces....

ethical journo is dead sans a handful......

the brits went through the same transformation......

#signofthetimes

@yourfuture

(08-17-2018 09:07 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Most point to when news went from being a public service to being a profit center and profit is about ratings and ratings are about attracting viewers. The big 3 network news broadcasts really aren't about political dogma as they are about entertainment. Oh, they have a handful of news stories, but they run just as much fluff and try and catch with a large net.
Cable news does divide among party lines because cable TV sells to relatively small but targeted demographics. The more targeted the less waste for advertisers.

The best source for "actual news" is the PBS Newshour.

The Big 3 and PBS are the worst of the worst. They are not journalists, they are partisans with press credentials.

(08-17-2018 11:24 AM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 09:07 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Most point to when news went from being a public service to being a profit center and profit is about ratings and ratings are about attracting viewers. The big 3 network news broadcasts really aren't about political dogma as they are about entertainment. Oh, they have a handful of news stories, but they run just as much fluff and try and catch with a large net.
Cable news does divide among party lines because cable TV sells to relatively small but targeted demographics. The more targeted the less waste for advertisers.

The best source for "actual news" is the PBS Newshour.

The Big 3 and PBS are the worst of the worst. They are not journalists, they are partisans with press credentials.

he's going back 50 yrs during simpler times....

there is no question they're unwatchable today.....

I don't remember journalism ever being truly objective but it seemed to really go off the rails when blogs and twitter started replacing print or other traditional news media.

Traditional news media are fighting for ad revenue and it's a business so they give the customer what they want just like any other business.

(08-17-2018 11:31 AM)JTiger Wrote:  I don't remember journalism ever being truly objective but it seemed to really go off the rails when blogs and twitter started replacing print or other traditional news media.

Traditional news media are fighting for ad revenue and it's a business so they give the customer what they want just like any other business.

which is XACLY! what Hearst realized a century ago and PT Barnum before that.....

(08-17-2018 11:24 AM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 09:07 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Most point to when news went from being a public service to being a profit center and profit is about ratings and ratings are about attracting viewers. The big 3 network news broadcasts really aren't about political dogma as they are about entertainment. Oh, they have a handful of news stories, but they run just as much fluff and try and catch with a large net.
Cable news does divide among party lines because cable TV sells to relatively small but targeted demographics. The more targeted the less waste for advertisers.

The best source for "actual news" is the PBS Newshour.

The Big 3 and PBS are the worst of the worst. They are not journalists, they are partisans with press credentials.

PBS was good when it was McNeil-Leher. It has become pretty partisan since both of them left. (but its not as bad as CBS/ABC/NBC).

(08-17-2018 09:43 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  I think there's several things that happened.

1) The 24/7 news cycle. Journalists had to fill that air time some how. Take a story, "report" it in with various opinions and takes, and claim it's unbiased journalism. The more you can muddy the water, the further from the truth you get.

2) The blatant and extreme takeover of the "education" system by leftists. Sure, colleges have always leaned left, but there was a belief that free speech enabled discussion which allowed for various opinions. In the last 25 years or so, "education" has turned into indoctrination, all of which is dominated by the progressive left. Having a "the right is evil" message drilled into your heads for years eventually leads people to believe that they're right and the other side must be silenced because their beliefs are..... sexist, racist, bigoted, hateful, etc.

3) Laziness. The art of investigative journalism is pretty much dead. It's easier to "run with" the story that's given to you instead of actually digging in to what's said. No one wants to develop sources anymore. No one wants to take the time to deep dive into information to uncover the truth. Someone writes a "statement" and it's taken for truth and reported as news.

4) Schools no longer teach people how to think. If you can't think, defend your positions, or argue the positions of others, it's easier to just shut down the other side rather than debate them.

Agree with you except for #4. Really don't know if that's true or not in colleges. It is true that a lot of people don't think and can't argue positions. I suspect that is more of a personality disorder than an education failure.

(08-17-2018 11:14 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  As I mentioned in my original post.....

For as long as I can remember the endorsing of political candidates by a news outlet (news papers most specifically) is an immediate compromise of any journalistic biases. As soon as you announce your favorite, anything you report is going to be looked at as favoring one over the other - and in the world we live in today, everybody is in the business of "opinion journalism" not "fact journalism".

And yet, you didn't have 97% endorsing one party in the past.

(08-17-2018 12:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 09:43 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  I think there's several things that happened.

1) The 24/7 news cycle. Journalists had to fill that air time some how. Take a story, "report" it in with various opinions and takes, and claim it's unbiased journalism. The more you can muddy the water, the further from the truth you get.

2) The blatant and extreme takeover of the "education" system by leftists. Sure, colleges have always leaned left, but there was a belief that free speech enabled discussion which allowed for various opinions. In the last 25 years or so, "education" has turned into indoctrination, all of which is dominated by the progressive left. Having a "the right is evil" message drilled into your heads for years eventually leads people to believe that they're right and the other side must be silenced because their beliefs are..... sexist, racist, bigoted, hateful, etc.

3) Laziness. The art of investigative journalism is pretty much dead. It's easier to "run with" the story that's given to you instead of actually digging in to what's said. No one wants to develop sources anymore. No one wants to take the time to deep dive into information to uncover the truth. Someone writes a "statement" and it's taken for truth and reported as news.

4) Schools no longer teach people how to think. If you can't think, defend your positions, or argue the positions of others, it's easier to just shut down the other side rather than debate them.

Agree with you except for #4. Really don't know if that's true or not in colleges. It is true that a lot of people don't think and can't argue positions. I suspect that is more of a personality disorder than an education failure.

I believe it's a structural issue....

again, to toss all the hogs in the same pen makes absolutely no sense to develop a skill set for what the individual is best at....

that's just damn stupid....

no person left behind has left many a soul scratching their arse and pickin' their schnoz-ola....

(08-17-2018 12:10 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 12:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 09:43 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  I think there's several things that happened.

1) The 24/7 news cycle. Journalists had to fill that air time some how. Take a story, "report" it in with various opinions and takes, and claim it's unbiased journalism. The more you can muddy the water, the further from the truth you get.

2) The blatant and extreme takeover of the "education" system by leftists. Sure, colleges have always leaned left, but there was a belief that free speech enabled discussion which allowed for various opinions. In the last 25 years or so, "education" has turned into indoctrination, all of which is dominated by the progressive left. Having a "the right is evil" message drilled into your heads for years eventually leads people to believe that they're right and the other side must be silenced because their beliefs are..... sexist, racist, bigoted, hateful, etc.

3) Laziness. The art of investigative journalism is pretty much dead. It's easier to "run with" the story that's given to you instead of actually digging in to what's said. No one wants to develop sources anymore. No one wants to take the time to deep dive into information to uncover the truth. Someone writes a "statement" and it's taken for truth and reported as news.

4) Schools no longer teach people how to think. If you can't think, defend your positions, or argue the positions of others, it's easier to just shut down the other side rather than debate them.

Agree with you except for #4. Really don't know if that's true or not in colleges. It is true that a lot of people don't think and can't argue positions. I suspect that is more of a personality disorder than an education failure.

I believe it's a structural issue....

again, to toss all the hogs in the same pen makes absolutely no sense to develop a skill set for what the individual is best at....

that's just damn stupid....

no person left behind has left many a soul scratching their arse and pickin' their schnoz-ola....

Now that is an education failure.
No child left behind was a great idea that did a lot of good. It was the interpretation that it means throwing everyone in the same hogpen and finding the lowest common denominator that was the problem.

Cuneiform.

(08-17-2018 12:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 09:43 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  I think there's several things that happened.
1) The 24/7 news cycle. Journalists had to fill that air time some how. Take a story, "report" it in with various opinions and takes, and claim it's unbiased journalism. The more you can muddy the water, the further from the truth you get.
2) The blatant and extreme takeover of the "education" system by leftists. Sure, colleges have always leaned left, but there was a belief that free speech enabled discussion which allowed for various opinions. In the last 25 years or so, "education" has turned into indoctrination, all of which is dominated by the progressive left. Having a "the right is evil" message drilled into your heads for years eventually leads people to believe that they're right and the other side must be silenced because their beliefs are..... sexist, racist, bigoted, hateful, etc.
3) Laziness. The art of investigative journalism is pretty much dead. It's easier to "run with" the story that's given to you instead of actually digging in to what's said. No one wants to develop sources anymore. No one wants to take the time to deep dive into information to uncover the truth. Someone writes a "statement" and it's taken for truth and reported as news.
4) Schools no longer teach people how to think. If you can't think, defend your positions, or argue the positions of others, it's easier to just shut down the other side rather than debate them.

Agree with you except for #4. Really don't know if that's true or not in colleges. It is true that a lot of people don't think and can't argue positions. I suspect that is more of a personality disorder than an education failure.

From academia, I think #4 is spot on. Schools don't teach HOW to think, they teach WHAT to think. "Critical thinking" is supposedly taught by getting a bunch of students in a room and feeding them propaganda that is probably different from what most of them believed coming in. So it's only "critical thinking" if you come around to my point of view. That's not critical thinking, that's brainwashing.

(08-17-2018 12:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 12:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 09:43 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  I think there's several things that happened.
1) The 24/7 news cycle. Journalists had to fill that air time some how. Take a story, "report" it in with various opinions and takes, and claim it's unbiased journalism. The more you can muddy the water, the further from the truth you get.
2) The blatant and extreme takeover of the "education" system by leftists. Sure, colleges have always leaned left, but there was a belief that free speech enabled discussion which allowed for various opinions. In the last 25 years or so, "education" has turned into indoctrination, all of which is dominated by the progressive left. Having a "the right is evil" message drilled into your heads for years eventually leads people to believe that they're right and the other side must be silenced because their beliefs are..... sexist, racist, bigoted, hateful, etc.
3) Laziness. The art of investigative journalism is pretty much dead. It's easier to "run with" the story that's given to you instead of actually digging in to what's said. No one wants to develop sources anymore. No one wants to take the time to deep dive into information to uncover the truth. Someone writes a "statement" and it's taken for truth and reported as news.
4) Schools no longer teach people how to think. If you can't think, defend your positions, or argue the positions of others, it's easier to just shut down the other side rather than debate them.

Agree with you except for #4. Really don't know if that's true or not in colleges. It is true that a lot of people don't think and can't argue positions. I suspect that is more of a personality disorder than an education failure.

From academia, I think #4 is spot on. Schools don't teach HOW to think, they teach WHAT to think. "Critical thinking" is supposedly taught by getting a bunch of students in a room and feeding them propaganda that is probably different from what most of them believed coming in. So it's only "critical thinking" if you come around to my point of view. That's not critical thinking, that's brainwashing.

key words.....

again, thank you Owl....

I also think the consolidation of news outlets is another point that people fail to bring into account.
Back in the day local news was fierce competition, now everything is owned by a few corps and edicts get passed down on what to cover.
The internet had the chance to bring back multiple sources, but now that its so closely tied with ad money... people just chase the clicks which means they are just following the trends of the major news corps.

(08-17-2018 12:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 12:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 09:43 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  I think there's several things that happened.
1) The 24/7 news cycle. Journalists had to fill that air time some how. Take a story, "report" it in with various opinions and takes, and claim it's unbiased journalism. The more you can muddy the water, the further from the truth you get.
2) The blatant and extreme takeover of the "education" system by leftists. Sure, colleges have always leaned left, but there was a belief that free speech enabled discussion which allowed for various opinions. In the last 25 years or so, "education" has turned into indoctrination, all of which is dominated by the progressive left. Having a "the right is evil" message drilled into your heads for years eventually leads people to believe that they're right and the other side must be silenced because their beliefs are..... sexist, racist, bigoted, hateful, etc.
3) Laziness. The art of investigative journalism is pretty much dead. It's easier to "run with" the story that's given to you instead of actually digging in to what's said. No one wants to develop sources anymore. No one wants to take the time to deep dive into information to uncover the truth. Someone writes a "statement" and it's taken for truth and reported as news.
4) Schools no longer teach people how to think. If you can't think, defend your positions, or argue the positions of others, it's easier to just shut down the other side rather than debate them.

Agree with you except for #4. Really don't know if that's true or not in colleges. It is true that a lot of people don't think and can't argue positions. I suspect that is more of a personality disorder than an education failure.

From academia, I think #4 is spot on. Schools don't teach HOW to think, they teach WHAT to think. "Critical thinking" is supposedly taught by getting a bunch of students in a room and feeding them propaganda that is probably different from what most of them believed coming in. So it's only "critical thinking" if you come around to my point of view. That's not critical thinking, that's brainwashing.

Haven't been in college for a long, long time. When I was in college, they taught you how to approach problems. Accountants, Engineers, Lawyers, Liberal Arts majors approached them in different ways. But they didn't start with the answer.

(08-17-2018 12:45 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 12:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 12:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 09:43 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  I think there's several things that happened.
1) The 24/7 news cycle. Journalists had to fill that air time some how. Take a story, "report" it in with various opinions and takes, and claim it's unbiased journalism. The more you can muddy the water, the further from the truth you get.
2) The blatant and extreme takeover of the "education" system by leftists. Sure, colleges have always leaned left, but there was a belief that free speech enabled discussion which allowed for various opinions. In the last 25 years or so, "education" has turned into indoctrination, all of which is dominated by the progressive left. Having a "the right is evil" message drilled into your heads for years eventually leads people to believe that they're right and the other side must be silenced because their beliefs are..... sexist, racist, bigoted, hateful, etc.
3) Laziness. The art of investigative journalism is pretty much dead. It's easier to "run with" the story that's given to you instead of actually digging in to what's said. No one wants to develop sources anymore. No one wants to take the time to deep dive into information to uncover the truth. Someone writes a "statement" and it's taken for truth and reported as news.
4) Schools no longer teach people how to think. If you can't think, defend your positions, or argue the positions of others, it's easier to just shut down the other side rather than debate them.

Agree with you except for #4. Really don't know if that's true or not in colleges. It is true that a lot of people don't think and can't argue positions. I suspect that is more of a personality disorder than an education failure.

From academia, I think #4 is spot on. Schools don't teach HOW to think, they teach WHAT to think. "Critical thinking" is supposedly taught by getting a bunch of students in a room and feeding them propaganda that is probably different from what most of them believed coming in. So it's only "critical thinking" if you come around to my point of view. That's not critical thinking, that's brainwashing.

Haven't been in college for a long, long time. When I was in college, they taught you how to approach problems. Accountants, Engineers, Lawyers, Liberal Arts majors approached them in different ways. But they didn't start with the answer.

that's why PSY301 was my fave.....

I've recently thought about auditing a class for shites and gigs during the off season....

(08-17-2018 10:43 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  With the proliferation of media, people now get custom tailored news that simply supports their worldview. Its not about the school system or laziness, its about the consumers of news. On my phone, I get to tell them what kind of news stories I want to show up in my news feed... so people are completely polarized and the "MSM" has to adapt or die.

We were far better off with 3 channels and some semblance of commonality.

It's a chicken & the egg argument.

People can customize the type of news they want.....

But.....

Much of that came from the onset of talk radio, Rush, and Fox News, which are creations of the MSM NOT giving people truth in news and unbiased journalism.

Those outlets found an audience because people became sick of what they were shoveling. I mean, if you're on the right, just how long can you be told you're wrong before looking elsewhere.