Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
Author Message
Bookmark and Share
stpnum4 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,972
Joined: Mar 2005
Reputation: 12
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #101
RE: Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
The AAC has become pretty fascinating. No doubt that the brands in the conference are not big as we had in the Big East. WVU and Louisville football coming to town moved the needle a bit more than UCF and Memphis.

That said, the AAC might be better from a competition standpoint than the old Big East. It's a debatable issue. The bottom of the AAC can be pretty bad (see Tuberville's last couple of teams), but the upper echelon has exceeded my expectations. I didn't think it was possible to have teams like UCF, Houston and Memphis play as well as they have the last couple of years.

Winning consistently is the best marketing for the people of Cincinnati. In the meantime, it would be great to see more creativity from the UC marketing department.
 
08-21-2018 10:06 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CliftonAve Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 13,165
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 402
I Root For: CinCity Pride
Location:
Post: #102
RE: Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
Sort of OT, but speaking of marketing, UCF cashed in reportedly in over $200M from their run last year.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto.../undefined
 
08-21-2018 10:22 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bearcatmark Online
Moderator
*

Posts: 16,435
Joined: Dec 2006
Reputation: 252
I Root For: the Deliverator
Location:
Post: #103
RE: Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
(08-21-2018 10:06 AM)stpnum4 Wrote:  The AAC has become pretty fascinating. No doubt that the brands in the conference are not big as we had in the Big East. WVU and Louisville football coming to town moved the needle a bit more than UCF and Memphis.

That said, the AAC might be better from a competition standpoint than the old Big East. It's a debatable issue. The bottom of the AAC can be pretty bad (see Tuberville's last couple of teams), but the upper echelon has exceeded my expectations. I didn't think it was possible to have teams like UCF, Houston and Memphis play as well as they have the last couple of years.

Winning consistently is the best marketing for the people of Cincinnati. In the meantime, it would be great to see more creativity from the UC marketing department.

No...it really isn't. This is not a discussion.

Just look at BK's time here.

Going by Sagarin
2007 the Big East was ranked forth ahead of the ACC and Big 10
2008 the Big East was ranked fifth ahead of the Big 10 and less than a point behind the Pac 10.
2009 the Big East was ranked second ahead of the Pac-10, ACC, Big 12 and Big 10. The SEC was way ahead in first.

Top to bottom the Big East was an incredibly solid league. I defend the AAC plenty because its clearly above all the other non-P5 leagues and has held its own OK with the P-5 though has been clearly behind those leagues. The last 3 years for example.

2015 The AAC ranked 6th and both divisions were behind all the divisions in the other major conferences (though both were ahead of any division among the non-P5)
2016 The AAC again ranked 6th... Again each AAC division was behind every division among the p5. This time The AAC west ranked ahead of the MWC-Mountain, but the AAC East was behind the MWC-Mountain.
2017 The AAC again ranked 6th... Again each AAC division was behind every division among the p5. This time The AAC west ranked ahead of the MWC-Mountain, but the AAC East was (very slightly) behind the MWC-Mountain.

The AAC has clearly been the #6 conference by a good margin (both clearly ahead of the other non P5s but clearly behind the P5s). The Big East was competing at a P5 (then BCS 6) level. Over that 3 year span I pulled just to coincide with the BK era the Big East finished with a better Sagarin rating than every conference except the SEC at least once. It finished ahead of the Big Ten all 3 seasons.
 
(This post was last modified: 08-21-2018 10:33 AM by bearcatmark.)
08-21-2018 10:32 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Bearcatdh58 Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 178
Joined: Mar 2018
Reputation: 5
I Root For: Cincinnati
Location:
Post: #104
RE: Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
I venture to say, we enjoyed similar results after our BCS run. That is what winning does. I am not against tweaking marketing and promotions. But winning and being in the hunt for a NY6 bowl matchup, that has to be the annual goal, imo.
(Side note: nobody brought 10,000 fans to Nippert. Not WV nor UofL. Maybe 3,000 max).

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using CSNbbs mobile app
 
08-21-2018 10:41 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
stpnum4 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,972
Joined: Mar 2005
Reputation: 12
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #105
RE: Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
(08-21-2018 10:32 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 10:06 AM)stpnum4 Wrote:  The AAC has become pretty fascinating. No doubt that the brands in the conference are not big as we had in the Big East. WVU and Louisville football coming to town moved the needle a bit more than UCF and Memphis.

That said, the AAC might be better from a competition standpoint than the old Big East. It's a debatable issue. The bottom of the AAC can be pretty bad (see Tuberville's last couple of teams), but the upper echelon has exceeded my expectations. I didn't think it was possible to have teams like UCF, Houston and Memphis play as well as they have the last couple of years.
Y
Winning consistently is the best marketing for the people of Cincinnati. In the meantime, it would be great to see more creativity from the UC marketing department.

No...it really isn't. This is not a discussion.

Just look at BK's time here.

Going by Sagarin
2007 the Big East was ranked forth ahead of the ACC and Big 10
2008 the Big East was ranked fifth ahead of the Big 10 and less than a point behind the Pac 10.
2009 the Big East was ranked second ahead of the Pac-10, ACC, Big 12 and Big 10. The SEC was way ahead in first.

Top to bottom the Big East was an incredibly solid league. I defend the AAC plenty because its clearly above all the other non-P5 leagues and has held its own OK with the P-5 though has been clearly behind those leagues. The last 3 years for example.

2015 The AAC ranked 6th and both divisions were behind all the divisions in the other major conferences (though both were ahead of any division among the non-P5)
2016 The AAC again ranked 6th... Again each AAC division was behind every division among the p5. This time The AAC west ranked ahead of the MWC-Mountain, but the AAC East was behind the MWC-Mountain.
2017 The AAC again ranked 6th... Again each AAC division was behind every division among the p5. This time The AAC west ranked ahead of the MWC-Mountain, but the AAC East was (very slightly) behind the MWC-Mountain.

The AAC has clearly been the #6 conference by a good margin (both clearly ahead of the other non P5s but clearly behind the P5s). The Big East was competing at a P5 (then BCS 6) level. Over that 3 year span I pulled just to coincide with the BK era the Big East finished with a better Sagarin rating than every conference except the SEC at least once. It finished ahead of the Big Ten all 3 seasons.

That's good perspective. I guess I'm too enamored with the big wins the top teams of the conference have had over the likes of Oklahoma and Auburn.
 
08-21-2018 10:45 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bearcatmark Online
Moderator
*

Posts: 16,435
Joined: Dec 2006
Reputation: 252
I Root For: the Deliverator
Location:
Post: #106
RE: Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
(08-21-2018 10:45 AM)stpnum4 Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 10:32 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 10:06 AM)stpnum4 Wrote:  The AAC has become pretty fascinating. No doubt that the brands in the conference are not big as we had in the Big East. WVU and Louisville football coming to town moved the needle a bit more than UCF and Memphis.

That said, the AAC might be better from a competition standpoint than the old Big East. It's a debatable issue. The bottom of the AAC can be pretty bad (see Tuberville's last couple of teams), but the upper echelon has exceeded my expectations. I didn't think it was possible to have teams like UCF, Houston and Memphis play as well as they have the last couple of years.
Y
Winning consistently is the best marketing for the people of Cincinnati. In the meantime, it would be great to see more creativity from the UC marketing department.

No...it really isn't. This is not a discussion.

Just look at BK's time here.

Going by Sagarin
2007 the Big East was ranked forth ahead of the ACC and Big 10
2008 the Big East was ranked fifth ahead of the Big 10 and less than a point behind the Pac 10.
2009 the Big East was ranked second ahead of the Pac-10, ACC, Big 12 and Big 10. The SEC was way ahead in first.

Top to bottom the Big East was an incredibly solid league. I defend the AAC plenty because its clearly above all the other non-P5 leagues and has held its own OK with the P-5 though has been clearly behind those leagues. The last 3 years for example.

2015 The AAC ranked 6th and both divisions were behind all the divisions in the other major conferences (though both were ahead of any division among the non-P5)
2016 The AAC again ranked 6th... Again each AAC division was behind every division among the p5. This time The AAC west ranked ahead of the MWC-Mountain, but the AAC East was behind the MWC-Mountain.
2017 The AAC again ranked 6th... Again each AAC division was behind every division among the p5. This time The AAC west ranked ahead of the MWC-Mountain, but the AAC East was (very slightly) behind the MWC-Mountain.

The AAC has clearly been the #6 conference by a good margin (both clearly ahead of the other non P5s but clearly behind the P5s). The Big East was competing at a P5 (then BCS 6) level. Over that 3 year span I pulled just to coincide with the BK era the Big East finished with a better Sagarin rating than every conference except the SEC at least once. It finished ahead of the Big Ten all 3 seasons.

That's good perspective. I guess I'm too enamored with the big wins the top teams of the conference have had over the likes of Oklahoma and Auburn.

That's fair. I think people look back and really undervalue what the Big East was in those days. Maybe if UC had performed as it should have against VT people would view the run differently. I still think watching that game UC had every chance to win it and just made mistakes they typically didn't make.

The Florida game the next year was an impossible situation based on the lack of coaches preparing for the game, the loss of their head coach, and a game against the clear second best team in the country and a national title type team (that was really motivated as it was the last game for many historic players).

In the 2007 season that WVU just rocked Oklahoma's world in their bcs bowl game. The prior seasons before that included Orange Bowl wins by Louisville and WVU. Frankly, I think UC fans remember their losses in some of those kind of games, but the league as a whole did really well in them.
 
08-21-2018 10:52 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Bearcatdh58 Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 178
Joined: Mar 2018
Reputation: 5
I Root For: Cincinnati
Location:
Post: #107
RE: Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
(08-21-2018 10:45 AM)stpnum4 Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 10:32 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 10:06 AM)stpnum4 Wrote:  The AAC has become pretty fascinating. No doubt that the brands in the conference are not big as we had in the Big East. WVU and Louisville football coming to town moved the needle a bit more than UCF and Memphis.

That said, the AAC might be better from a competition standpoint than the old Big East. It's a debatable issue. The bottom of the AAC can be pretty bad (see Tuberville's last couple of teams), but the upper echelon has exceeded my expectations. I didn't think it was possible to have teams like UCF, Houston and Memphis play as well as they have the last couple of years.
Y
Winning consistently is the best marketing for the people of Cincinnati. In the meantime, it would be great to see more creativity from the UC marketing department.

No...it really isn't. This is not a discussion.

Just look at BK's time here.

Going by Sagarin
2007 the Big East was ranked forth ahead of the ACC and Big 10
2008 the Big East was ranked fifth ahead of the Big 10 and less than a point behind the Pac 10.
2009 the Big East was ranked second ahead of the Pac-10, ACC, Big 12 and Big 10. The SEC was way ahead in first.

Top to bottom the Big East was an incredibly solid league. I defend the AAC plenty because its clearly above all the other non-P5 leagues and has held its own OK with the P-5 though has been clearly behind those leagues. The last 3 years for example.

2015 The AAC ranked 6th and both divisions were behind all the divisions in the other major conferences (though both were ahead of any division among the non-P5)
2016 The AAC again ranked 6th... Again each AAC division was behind every division among the p5. This time The AAC west ranked ahead of the MWC-Mountain, but the AAC East was behind the MWC-Mountain.
2017 The AAC again ranked 6th... Again each AAC division was behind every division among the p5. This time The AAC west ranked ahead of the MWC-Mountain, but the AAC East was (very slightly) behind the MWC-Mountain.

The AAC has clearly been the #6 conference by a good margin (both clearly ahead of the other non P5s but clearly behind the P5s). The Big East was competing at a P5 (then BCS 6) level. Over that 3 year span I pulled just to coincide with the BK era the Big East finished with a better Sagarin rating than every conference except the SEC at least once. It finished ahead of the Big Ten all 3 seasons.

That's good perspective. I guess I'm too enamored with the big wins the top teams of the conference have had over the likes of Oklahoma and Auburn.
And yet, the perception was that the Big East football conference was the 6th rated conference and during our membership, never played in a Championship game. During our tour of duty, the Big East record in NY6 bowl games was worst than the AAC.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using CSNbbs mobile app
 
08-21-2018 11:10 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Not Duane Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 986
Joined: Dec 2015
Reputation: 7
I Root For: UC
Location:
Post: #108
RE: Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
(08-19-2018 11:14 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  
(08-19-2018 10:53 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  
(08-19-2018 07:40 PM)doss2 Wrote:  I have been a season ticket holder for 30 years and a fan for 60. During that time the word marketing and UC football have never come together. Students leave early, did they ever try to create a reason to stay? How about students that leave at the game end get a preference for Big Basketball games? Or have a rock band concert after the game ends?


Sure winning solves all issues but until that happens be creative. All these employees and what do we get?


Try enlisting a UC marketing class for ideas.


Bob Goins once told me until FSU FB became good he had bands invited to every game to create the illusion of attendance.

Let's draw an analogy here:

Let's say you have a product--rotten eggs, and your job is to sell them to the public to eat. No amount of marketing or positioning, or providing incentives is going to get the public to buy and eat rotten eggs.

Your revenue on the product will fall, and until you replace it with a product the public wants to purchase for consumption--fresh eggs, that trend will continue. In order to get that new product, you have to change distributors, and then demonstrate that the product is not only safe, but desirable for consumption.

Until that happens, the public will purchase their eggs elsewhere.

Very simple.

Good Lord. 03-zzz

Do you dispute this? Why do teams that win regularly pack their stadiums and sell out season tickets? Is it just happenstance?

I think not.

The solution is simple to understand but difficult to achieve. UC FB is in a bind historically because they share this locale with several P5 schools that cut into the recruitment pool. Thus UC gets 2 and 3 star players, while the P5 vacuums up the 4 star and above blue chip recruits. In addition, UC constantly loses capable coaches to the P5, so the program can't get traction. This won't change unless UC gets invited to the P5--which is unlikely, because the P5 doesn't want to split the pot of $$ they now enjoy.

Short of congress getting involved, you have 3 options:

1. move to a lower division in FB where you will be more competitive.
2. cheat.
3. bribe a big time coach to come here with much $$$$.

UC has done 2 and 3 and been unsuccessful. Option 1 might be the best way to go.

Other than that, you're hoping for magic to solve the situation, and that's unlikely.
 
08-21-2018 11:28 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Bearcatdh58 Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 178
Joined: Mar 2018
Reputation: 5
I Root For: Cincinnati
Location:
Post: #109
RE: Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
Remember we all complained that the Big East did not get favorable media attention. During our membership, the Big East was 5 - 3 in BCS games. Only W Virginia and UofL winning. The last two teams, WV and UoL was rated #23 and #21, respectively. Except for our auto-bid BCS bowl, the other bowl games were meh, pretty much the same as today.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using CSNbbs mobile app
 
08-21-2018 11:31 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CliftonAve Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 13,165
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 402
I Root For: CinCity Pride
Location:
Post: #110
RE: Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
(08-21-2018 11:28 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  
(08-19-2018 11:14 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  
(08-19-2018 10:53 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  
(08-19-2018 07:40 PM)doss2 Wrote:  I have been a season ticket holder for 30 years and a fan for 60. During that time the word marketing and UC football have never come together. Students leave early, did they ever try to create a reason to stay? How about students that leave at the game end get a preference for Big Basketball games? Or have a rock band concert after the game ends?


Sure winning solves all issues but until that happens be creative. All these employees and what do we get?


Try enlisting a UC marketing class for ideas.


Bob Goins once told me until FSU FB became good he had bands invited to every game to create the illusion of attendance.

Let's draw an analogy here:

Let's say you have a product--rotten eggs, and your job is to sell them to the public to eat. No amount of marketing or positioning, or providing incentives is going to get the public to buy and eat rotten eggs.

Your revenue on the product will fall, and until you replace it with a product the public wants to purchase for consumption--fresh eggs, that trend will continue. In order to get that new product, you have to change distributors, and then demonstrate that the product is not only safe, but desirable for consumption.

Until that happens, the public will purchase their eggs elsewhere.

Very simple.

Good Lord. 03-zzz

Do you dispute this? Why do teams that win regularly pack their stadiums and sell out season tickets? Is it just happenstance?

I think not.

The solution is simple to understand but difficult to achieve. UC FB is in a bind historically because they share this locale with several P5 schools that cut into the recruitment pool. Thus UC gets 2 and 3 star players, while the P5 vacuums up the 4 star and above blue chip recruits. In addition, UC constantly loses capable coaches to the P5, so the program can't get traction. This won't change unless UC gets invited to the P5--which is unlikely, because the P5 doesn't want to split the pot of $$ they now enjoy.

Short of congress getting involved, you have 3 options:

1. move to a lower division in FB where you will be more competitive.
2. cheat.
3. bribe a big time coach to come here with much $$$$.

UC has done 2 and 3 and been unsuccessful. Option 1 might be the best way to go.

Other than that, you're hoping for magic to solve the situation, and that's unlikely.

When's the last time UC football cheated? I am not talking about players getting in trouble for a DUI or punching a dude at a bar, I am talking about the program paying recruits to come here and similar violations.

Tuberville "was" a big time name coming out of Auburn, but he well past his prime. He was in retirement mode. As far as "overpaying"- he was not making much more than what we paid for Butch Jones and what we currently are paying Coach Fickell.
 
08-21-2018 11:41 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bearcatmill Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,244
Joined: Jan 2005
Reputation: 56
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #111
RE: Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
(08-21-2018 11:28 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  
(08-19-2018 11:14 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  
(08-19-2018 10:53 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  
(08-19-2018 07:40 PM)doss2 Wrote:  I have been a season ticket holder for 30 years and a fan for 60. During that time the word marketing and UC football have never come together. Students leave early, did they ever try to create a reason to stay? How about students that leave at the game end get a preference for Big Basketball games? Or have a rock band concert after the game ends?


Sure winning solves all issues but until that happens be creative. All these employees and what do we get?


Try enlisting a UC marketing class for ideas.


Bob Goins once told me until FSU FB became good he had bands invited to every game to create the illusion of attendance.

Let's draw an analogy here:

Let's say you have a product--rotten eggs, and your job is to sell them to the public to eat. No amount of marketing or positioning, or providing incentives is going to get the public to buy and eat rotten eggs.

Your revenue on the product will fall, and until you replace it with a product the public wants to purchase for consumption--fresh eggs, that trend will continue. In order to get that new product, you have to change distributors, and then demonstrate that the product is not only safe, but desirable for consumption.

Until that happens, the public will purchase their eggs elsewhere.

Very simple.

Good Lord. 03-zzz

Do you dispute this? Why do teams that win regularly pack their stadiums and sell out season tickets? Is it just happenstance?

I think not.

The solution is simple to understand but difficult to achieve. UC FB is in a bind historically because they share this locale with several P5 schools that cut into the recruitment pool. Thus UC gets 2 and 3 star players, while the P5 vacuums up the 4 star and above blue chip recruits. In addition, UC constantly loses capable coaches to the P5, so the program can't get traction. This won't change unless UC gets invited to the P5--which is unlikely, because the P5 doesn't want to split the pot of $$ they now enjoy.

Short of congress getting involved, you have 3 options:

1. move to a lower division in FB where you will be more competitive.
2. cheat.
3. bribe a big time coach to come here with much $$$$.

UC has done 2 and 3 and been unsuccessful. Option 1 might be the best way to go.

Other than that, you're hoping for magic to solve the situation, and that's unlikely.

When did number 2 and 3 happen at UC? Outside of a dream you had on Saturday night.

No school has a clear lock on recruiting Cincinnati. Cincinnati is fertile recruiting ground where the cartel 5 and non cartel 5 schools recruit. Even mighty osu does not pull every top recruit from this area. This is why all schools recruit more than one geographic area. Losing coaches and not gaining traction is a Enquirer/Lance/Ken Broo talking point. If Whit stuck with the model of up and coming coach, UC would be fine. Instead he went with someone locked into the retirement mode. Cartel 5 schools lose coaches all the time. Achieving Cartel 5 status is not going to completely eliminate this potential. By the way - UC lost one coach to his dream situation (MarkD), another to a lifelong dream job (BK) and another to a traditional SEC power (Lyle). The latter 2 had turned down opportunities to leave.

UC's situation is not ideal to most fans/supporters. You seem to lack perspective and history when formulating your opinions.
 
(This post was last modified: 08-21-2018 12:05 PM by bearcatmill.)
08-21-2018 12:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Bearcatdh58 Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 178
Joined: Mar 2018
Reputation: 5
I Root For: Cincinnati
Location:
Post: #112
RE: Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
(08-21-2018 11:41 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 11:28 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  
(08-19-2018 11:14 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  
(08-19-2018 10:53 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  
(08-19-2018 07:40 PM)doss2 Wrote:  I have been a season ticket holder for 30 years and a fan for 60. During that time the word marketing and UC football have never come together. Students leave early, did they ever try to create a reason to stay? How about students that leave at the game end get a preference for Big Basketball games? Or have a rock band concert after the game ends?


Sure winning solves all issues but until that happens be creative. All these employees and what do we get?


Try enlisting a UC marketing class for ideas.


Bob Goins once told me until FSU FB became good he had bands invited to every game to create the illusion of attendance.

Let's draw an analogy here:

Let's say you have a product--rotten eggs, and your job is to sell them to the public to eat. No amount of marketing or positioning, or providing incentives is going to get the public to buy and eat rotten eggs.

Your revenue on the product will fall, and until you replace it with a product the public wants to purchase for consumption--fresh eggs, that trend will continue. In order to get that new product, you have to change distributors, and then demonstrate that the product is not only safe, but desirable for consumption.

Until that happens, the public will purchase their eggs elsewhere.

Very simple.

Good Lord. 03-zzz

Do you dispute this? Why do teams that win regularly pack their stadiums and sell out season tickets? Is it just happenstance?

I think not.

The solution is simple to understand but difficult to achieve. UC FB is in a bind historically because they share this locale with several P5 schools that cut into the recruitment pool. Thus UC gets 2 and 3 star players, while the P5 vacuums up the 4 star and above blue chip recruits. In addition, UC constantly loses capable coaches to the P5, so the program can't get traction. This won't change unless UC gets invited to the P5--which is unlikely, because the P5 doesn't want to split the pot of $$ they now enjoy.

Short of congress getting involved, you have 3 options:

1. move to a lower division in FB where you will be more competitive.
2. cheat.
3. bribe a big time coach to come here with much $$$$.

UC has done 2 and 3 and been unsuccessful. Option 1 might be the best way to go.

Other than that, you're hoping for magic to solve the situation, and that's unlikely.

When's the last time UC football cheated? I am not talking about players getting in trouble for a DUI or punching a dude at a bar, I am talking about the program paying recruits to come here and similar violations.

Tuberville "was" a big time name coming out of Auburn, but he well past his prime. He was in retirement mode. As far as "overpaying"- he was not making much more than what we paid for Butch Jones and what we currently are paying Coach Fickell.
How about the same option that UCF and Houston was taken. Recruit your region well, grow your program and win your conference. This conference is as good as the Big East we played in. We have yet to beat the teams at the top of our own division. UCF, Houston, Memphis, Temple and Navy are getting national press and some of us are talking about gimmicks.
Win the conference. Make the NY6. Those teams just mentioned are just getting it done without making excuses about the conference, recruiting, etc.
I am so glad CLF is not making excuses about the conference, recruiting, attendance, etc. He seems be pursuing the same path as Dantonio.

(08-21-2018 11:31 AM)Bearcatdh58 Wrote:  Remember we all complained that the Big East did not get favorable media attention. During our membership, the Big East was 5 - 3 in BCS games. Only W Virginia and UofL winning. The last two teams, WV and UoL was rated #23 and #21, respectively. Except for our auto-bid BCS bowl, the other bowl games were meh, pretty much the same as today.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using CSNbbs mobile app


Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using CSNbbs mobile app
 
08-21-2018 12:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bearcatmill Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,244
Joined: Jan 2005
Reputation: 56
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #113
RE: Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
(08-21-2018 11:31 AM)Bearcatdh58 Wrote:  Remember we all complained that the Big East did not get favorable media attention. During our membership, the Big East was 5 - 3 in BCS games. Only W Virginia and UofL winning. The last two teams, WV and UoL was rated #23 and #21, respectively. Except for our auto-bid BCS bowl, the other bowl games were meh, pretty much the same as today.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using CSNbbs mobile app

Media narrative. Narrative was mainly created by a network which helped to eliminate the conference. Mark did a great job showing how competitive the BE truly was during the BCS era. You may have forgotten when comparing what the media considered the then number 5 conference, ACC, the BE had roughly the same if not more bowl wins. BE had good bowls outside of the auto-bid - Liberty/Belk to name a couple.
 
08-21-2018 12:10 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CliftonAve Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 13,165
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 402
I Root For: CinCity Pride
Location:
Post: #114
RE: Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
(08-21-2018 12:07 PM)Bearcatdh58 Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 11:41 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 11:28 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  
(08-19-2018 11:14 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  
(08-19-2018 10:53 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  Let's draw an analogy here:

Let's say you have a product--rotten eggs, and your job is to sell them to the public to eat. No amount of marketing or positioning, or providing incentives is going to get the public to buy and eat rotten eggs.

Your revenue on the product will fall, and until you replace it with a product the public wants to purchase for consumption--fresh eggs, that trend will continue. In order to get that new product, you have to change distributors, and then demonstrate that the product is not only safe, but desirable for consumption.

Until that happens, the public will purchase their eggs elsewhere.

Very simple.

Good Lord. 03-zzz

Do you dispute this? Why do teams that win regularly pack their stadiums and sell out season tickets? Is it just happenstance?

I think not.

The solution is simple to understand but difficult to achieve. UC FB is in a bind historically because they share this locale with several P5 schools that cut into the recruitment pool. Thus UC gets 2 and 3 star players, while the P5 vacuums up the 4 star and above blue chip recruits. In addition, UC constantly loses capable coaches to the P5, so the program can't get traction. This won't change unless UC gets invited to the P5--which is unlikely, because the P5 doesn't want to split the pot of $$ they now enjoy.

Short of congress getting involved, you have 3 options:

1. move to a lower division in FB where you will be more competitive.
2. cheat.
3. bribe a big time coach to come here with much $$$$.

UC has done 2 and 3 and been unsuccessful. Option 1 might be the best way to go.

Other than that, you're hoping for magic to solve the situation, and that's unlikely.

When's the last time UC football cheated? I am not talking about players getting in trouble for a DUI or punching a dude at a bar, I am talking about the program paying recruits to come here and similar violations.

Tuberville "was" a big time name coming out of Auburn, but he well past his prime. He was in retirement mode. As far as "overpaying"- he was not making much more than what we paid for Butch Jones and what we currently are paying Coach Fickell.
How about the same option that UCF and Houston was taken. Recruit your region well, grow your program and win your conference. This conference is as good as the Big East we played in. We have yet to beat the teams at the top of our own division. UCF, Houston, Memphis, Temple and Navy are getting national press and some of us are talking about gimmicks.
Win the conference. Make the NY6. Those teams just mentioned are just getting it done without making excuses about the conference, recruiting, etc.
I am so glad CLF is not making excuses about the conference, recruiting, attendance, etc. He seems be pursuing the same path as Dantonio.

(08-21-2018 11:31 AM)Bearcatdh58 Wrote:  Remember we all complained that the Big East did not get favorable media attention. During our membership, the Big East was 5 - 3 in BCS games. Only W Virginia and UofL winning. The last two teams, WV and UoL was rated #23 and #21, respectively. Except for our auto-bid BCS bowl, the other bowl games were meh, pretty much the same as today.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using CSNbbs mobile app


Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using CSNbbs mobile app

Not sure why you quoted my post with the paragraph in bold, but my position is that absent one awful coaching hire, in the 2000s would have consistently been one of the top 5-6 winningest programs in the country (we were on track until the past two disastrous seasons.
 
08-21-2018 12:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Bearcatdh58 Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 178
Joined: Mar 2018
Reputation: 5
I Root For: Cincinnati
Location:
Post: #115
RE: Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
(08-21-2018 12:10 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 11:31 AM)Bearcatdh58 Wrote:  Remember we all complained that the Big East did not get favorable media attention. During our membership, the Big East was 5 - 3 in BCS games. Only W Virginia and UofL winning. The last two teams, WV and UoL was rated #23 and #21, respectively. Except for our auto-bid BCS bowl, the other bowl games were meh, pretty much the same as today.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using CSNbbs mobile app

Media narrative. Narrative was mainly created by a network which helped to eliminate the conference. Mark did a great job showing how competitive the BE truly was during the BCS era. You may have forgotten when comparing what the media considered the then number 5 conference, ACC, the BE had roughly the same if not more bowl wins. BE had good bowls outside of the auto-bid - Liberty/Belk to name a couple.
The AAC is undefeated in NY6 games. The Big East is 5-3 during our membership. We all complained about our other bowl games. We never had a contract bowl with the Liberty and the Belk wasn't that good at the time. I loved the Big East. Better brand names, close rivalry games. I miss it a lot.
But if the AAC as was in the P5 with an auto bid to the NY6 and making at least $15M each, there would be less concern by the Bearcat faithful.
The real issue is more media money, good media exposure, and a NY6 contract bowl.
For now the issue is win the conference, play in a NY6, and collect a current adjusted value 'Old Big East' media contract ($10M was the last offer).


Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using CSNbbs mobile app
 
08-21-2018 12:38 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
stpnum4 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,972
Joined: Mar 2005
Reputation: 12
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #116
RE: Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
One of the most bizarre affects of modern college football is that fans and media focus on how much tv money conferences are pulling in almost more than wins and losses.

The game is not better today than years past. Look at all the rivalry games that are no longer played because of the pursuit of more tv money (conference realignment).
 
08-21-2018 07:14 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Crewdogz Offline
I'm Your Huckleberry
*

Posts: 8,012
Joined: Jan 2005
Reputation: 117
I Root For: America
Location:

Donators
Post: #117
RE: Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
(08-19-2018 11:21 AM)Ragpicker Wrote:  
(08-17-2018 04:14 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Could the folks in the Marketing And Fan Development Division of the Athletic Department use some "suggestions" to build marketing/advertising partnerships to bring more folks out and students? Here they are straight from the gobearcats web page:

[Image: Booth.jpeg?width=300]
Brittany Booth
TITLE: Associate AD/Marketing & Branding
EMAIL: brittany.booth@uc.edu
PHONE: 513-556-0838

[Image: Willman.jpeg?width=300]
Luke Willman
TITLE: Assistant AD/Marketing & Branding
EMAIL: luke.willman@uc.edu
PHONE: 513-556-1081

[Image: Jaga.jpeg?width=300]
Nisha Jaga
TITLE: Director/Marketing & Branding
EMAIL: nisha.jaga@uc.edu
PHONE: 513-556-1052

Deborah Dixon (No Picture)
TITLE: Assistant Director/Marketing & Branding
EMAIL: dixond9@ucmail.uc.edu
PHONE: 513-556-2449

[Image: Howard.jpeg?width=300]
Brad Howard
TITLE Creative Services Director
EMAIL brad.howard@uc.edu
PHONE 513-556-0630

Lots of Folks in UC Athletics Marketing/Fan Development Division

How is it that I don't know a single one of them. Epic fail.
I'm not talking about them contacting me personally ala Karen Hatcher passing out gifts to the big money donors.

I just searched my email and I've never received any form of contact from them.

Must be new Bohn hires since the rest of the staff keeps bailing. Poor J Locklier went to Kent State. Talk about a black hole of athletics.

I have lots of contact from several in the office including Nisha. I have been active in getting youth sports teams to UC for Bearcats baseball. As far as marketing to youth sports I think they've done a great job. I've received a large amount of emails for youth sports partnerships for football (future Bearcats program) for the upcoming season.

Anecdotal I'm sure but I've seen a lot of outreach to local youth sports organizations.
 
08-21-2018 08:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Not Duane Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 986
Joined: Dec 2015
Reputation: 7
I Root For: UC
Location:
Post: #118
RE: Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
(08-21-2018 11:41 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(08-21-2018 11:28 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  
(08-19-2018 11:14 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  
(08-19-2018 10:53 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  
(08-19-2018 07:40 PM)doss2 Wrote:  I have been a season ticket holder for 30 years and a fan for 60. During that time the word marketing and UC football have never come together. Students leave early, did they ever try to create a reason to stay? How about students that leave at the game end get a preference for Big Basketball games? Or have a rock band concert after the game ends?


Sure winning solves all issues but until that happens be creative. All these employees and what do we get?


Try enlisting a UC marketing class for ideas.


Bob Goins once told me until FSU FB became good he had bands invited to every game to create the illusion of attendance.

Let's draw an analogy here:

Let's say you have a product--rotten eggs, and your job is to sell them to the public to eat. No amount of marketing or positioning, or providing incentives is going to get the public to buy and eat rotten eggs.

Your revenue on the product will fall, and until you replace it with a product the public wants to purchase for consumption--fresh eggs, that trend will continue. In order to get that new product, you have to change distributors, and then demonstrate that the product is not only safe, but desirable for consumption.

Until that happens, the public will purchase their eggs elsewhere.

Very simple.

Good Lord. 03-zzz

Do you dispute this? Why do teams that win regularly pack their stadiums and sell out season tickets? Is it just happenstance?

I think not.

The solution is simple to understand but difficult to achieve. UC FB is in a bind historically because they share this locale with several P5 schools that cut into the recruitment pool. Thus UC gets 2 and 3 star players, while the P5 vacuums up the 4 star and above blue chip recruits. In addition, UC constantly loses capable coaches to the P5, so the program can't get traction. This won't change unless UC gets invited to the P5--which is unlikely, because the P5 doesn't want to split the pot of $$ they now enjoy.

Short of congress getting involved, you have 3 options:

1. move to a lower division in FB where you will be more competitive.
2. cheat.
3. bribe a big time coach to come here with much $$$$.

UC has done 2 and 3 and been unsuccessful. Option 1 might be the best way to go.

Other than that, you're hoping for magic to solve the situation, and that's unlikely.

When's the last time UC football cheated? I am not talking about players getting in trouble for a DUI or punching a dude at a bar, I am talking about the program paying recruits to come here and similar violations.

Tuberville "was" a big time name coming out of Auburn, but he well past his prime. He was in retirement mode. As far as "overpaying"- he was not making much more than what we paid for Butch Jones and what we currently are paying Coach Fickell.

When has UC football cheated:

https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/miCaseView?id=662

https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/miCaseView?id=48

https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/miCaseView?id=723

https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/miCaseView?id=327

When has UC football paid big $$ for a "big-time" FB coach:

Henry Russell Cohen
Sid Gillman
Chuck Studley
Tommy Tubberville

Interesting that most of these coaches...in fact...throughout UC's FB history, have seen their greatest success AFTER having coached UC FB. It seems to be an historic trend for UC FB to serve as a "training ground" for coaches who go on to broader success, while having limited success at UC. Exceptions include Kelly and Dantonio, who have had sustained success at UC and subsequent positions.

This is reflected in UC's lifetime FB record of .509, which is in the bottom 10% of all division I programs.

This seems to speak to UC's challenges in recuiting less so than the quality of the coaching from an historical perspective.
 
(This post was last modified: 08-22-2018 03:56 AM by Not Duane.)
08-22-2018 03:54 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CliftonAve Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 13,165
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 402
I Root For: CinCity Pride
Location:
Post: #119
RE: Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
^^ I could tee your post up with facts, but I am not going to feed you.
 
(This post was last modified: 08-22-2018 04:34 AM by CliftonAve.)
08-22-2018 04:17 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Dannyboy Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,670
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 38
I Root For: Bearcats
Location:
Post: #120
RE: Open Response to Enquirer Sports "Columnist" Paul Daugherty
The “cheating” consists of something from the 50s, something from the 70s, something from another school, and this secondary violation:

“Only 20 of these impermissible calls were placed by members of the football staff. Four assistant coaches placed calls ranging from four to 10 calls apiece. The violations in the football program were classified as secondary in nature.”

OOOOOOOOOO. SCANDALOUS.

Dumb.
 
08-22-2018 06:04 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2018 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2018 MyBB Group.