What the Hell is this, 1958?

Ahem...what?

Just Pavel Chekov getting a little too rowdy on shore leave.

(08-16-2018 05:41 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Ahem...what?

It was the lead on CNN. They were talking about why Space Force was created.

I was referencing Sputnik in the OP.

Bump

(08-17-2018 09:09 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Bump

why bump....do you need a warm fuzzy response to tickle your fruity pebbles w/o substance?

Because everything in the news makes it sound like the Cold War is still going on.

(08-17-2018 05:16 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Because everything in the news makes it sound like the Cold War is still going on.

Of course it still is, even the Chinese think so. I think so too otherwise why build bases on man made islands or try to get other countries to allow them access to their bases or their country altogether.

(08-17-2018 05:58 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 05:16 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Because everything in the news makes it sound like the Cold War is still going on.

Of course it still is, even the Chinese think so. I think so too otherwise why build bases on man made islands or try to get other countries to allow them access to their bases or their country altogether.

They are doing that because they think there may be a lot of oil under the South China Sea, and they want to put in their territorial claims. Those bases don't really have much to do with a Cold War. They aren't going to threaten us from there.

(08-17-2018 06:15 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 05:58 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 05:16 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Because everything in the news makes it sound like the Cold War is still going on.

Of course it still is, even the Chinese think so. I think so too otherwise why build bases on man made islands or try to get other countries to allow them access to their bases or their country altogether.

They are doing that because they think there may be a lot of oil under the South China Sea, and they want to put in their territorial claims. Those bases don't really have much to do with a Cold War. They aren't going to threaten us from there.

...and they need islands for that? Then I guess all those offshore drilling rigs have islands underneath. Thanks for the clarification.

(08-17-2018 06:22 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 06:15 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 05:58 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 05:16 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Because everything in the news makes it sound like the Cold War is still going on.

Of course it still is, even the Chinese think so. I think so too otherwise why build bases on man made islands or try to get other countries to allow them access to their bases or their country altogether.

They are doing that because they think there may be a lot of oil under the South China Sea, and they want to put in their territorial claims. Those bases don't really have much to do with a Cold War. They aren't going to threaten us from there.

...and they need islands for that? Then I guess all those offshore drilling rigs have islands underneath. Thanks for the clarification.

No, they need the islands to establish their claim to the ocean areas as Chinese territory, instead of international waters or extraterritorial waters of the Philippines or Vietnam or whoever.

Simple query: What are they going to put on those islands that is going to be more of a threat to the US than what they could put on their mainland?

You'll have to ask them Owl. Personally, I don't think it'll make a difference in a war as they can be wiped out very easily.

(08-17-2018 06:30 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  You'll have to ask them Owl. Personally, I don't think it'll make a difference in a war as they can be wiped out very easily.

But they're not for war. They're for commercial exploitation.

And in reality, perhaps we could knock them out in a war easily, but the people they are apt to be fighting over them--Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Philippines--probably can't.

(08-17-2018 06:34 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 06:30 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  You'll have to ask them Owl. Personally, I don't think it'll make a difference in a war as they can be wiped out very easily.

But they're not for war. They're for commercial exploitation.

And in reality, perhaps we could knock them out in a war easily, but the people they are apt to be fighting over them--Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Philippines--probably can't.

And to extend territorial claims which extends the sea boundary by international law. If they get to claim those man made islands it helps them to control the South China Sea and the air space over it, at least as far as the U.N. would be concerned.

The claims on the Kuril Islands by Russia are as old as the surrender of Japan. I'd say when Russia reemerged from the wake of the Soviet Union that those claims which were never cleared up, should now be moot.

Now if that land had been formed by natural accretion then the Chinese would have a claim. But as things stand they don't, and only fear serves as a legitimizing force in this case.

(08-16-2018 05:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  What the Hell is this, 1958?

We would have to be massive fools to think a nation cannot wage war, attack or damage another nation from orbit in 2018.

With the technology, the satellites, the things we have available today, they can absolutely find ways to attack, be it EM attacks, weather attacks, microwave, starting fires or God knows what else.

I'm amazed at how gullible some people are that think we know even half of the technology they have available to them today. What the public sees is always far behind what they already have.

(08-18-2018 01:54 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-16-2018 05:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  What the Hell is this, 1958?

We would have to be massive fools to think a nation cannot wage war, attack or damage another nation from orbit in 2018.

With the technology, the satellites, the things we have available today, they can absolutely find ways to attack, be it EM attacks, weather attacks, microwave, starting fires or God knows what else.

I'm amazed at how gullible some people are that think we know even half of the technology they have available to them today. What the public sees is always far behind what they already have.

If the weaponry is known to the public it is at least two generations removed from what we actually have. We only fight with what we have to use to beat what the enemy has. Security is in having something they aren't prepared for.

(08-18-2018 02:06 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-18-2018 01:54 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-16-2018 05:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  What the Hell is this, 1958?

We would have to be massive fools to think a nation cannot wage war, attack or damage another nation from orbit in 2018.

With the technology, the satellites, the things we have available today, they can absolutely find ways to attack, be it EM attacks, weather attacks, microwave, starting fires or God knows what else.

I'm amazed at how gullible some people are that think we know even half of the technology they have available to them today. What the public sees is always far behind what they already have.

If the weaponry is known to the public it is at least two generations removed from what we actually have. We only fight with what we have to use to beat what the enemy has. Security is in having something they aren't prepared for.

Truth

(08-17-2018 06:34 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-17-2018 06:30 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  You'll have to ask them Owl. Personally, I don't think it'll make a difference in a war as they can be wiped out very easily.

But they're not for war. They're for commercial exploitation.

And in reality, perhaps we could knock them out in a war easily, but the people they are apt to be fighting over them--Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Philippines--probably can't.

I know. They'd be stupid to start a war with someone that's keeping them fed. You do not bite the hand that feeds you and that's what the US is doing. China would be almost nothing if not for American dollars. That's exactly why they're sending an envoy to talk tariffs. They know that they can't keep up and they also know that we can outlast them in the long run and the same goes for the Europeans and our neighbors to the north and south.

But, like everything in a modern war, no one wins and fortunately THEY know this.

China cannot survive without Middle East oil. Their economy craters and they starve. They want to develop any oil and gas in the South China Sea, and do alternatives, but they will still be dependent on imports. And those imports have to come through the first island chain (Vietnam, Borneo, Philippines, Taiwan, Japan). That makes them very vulnerable, at least until they develop a viable blue water navy. They can dominate inside the first island chain, but so far they can’t project beyond there.