https://www.highschoolot.com/chapel-hill.../17767266/

Seems odd to me that this isn't a "bottom up" lack of interest. There were enough younger players, but just not enough upperclassmen willing to play varsity football. That doesn't sound like it's parents who won't let their kids play.

Are there more high schools out there where this is happening?

My old hs almost didn't field a team for first time ever due to lack of players this year. They managed to field just enough players to have a team.

Posted from mobile device. Hopefully it's coherent.

Hard to imagine this happening anywhere in South Carolina.

My old high school has had some falling participation, but they are still well above the minimum amount needed.

(08-14-2018 07:26 AM)ken d Wrote:  https://www.highschoolot.com/chapel-hill.../17767266/

Seems odd to me that this isn't a "bottom up" lack of interest. There were enough younger players, but just not enough upperclassmen willing to play varsity football. That doesn't sound like it's parents who won't let their kids play.

Are there more high schools out there where this is happening?

My old HS decided to join an 8 man league last year because they couldn't field a full team.

Part of it comes from the Coach/AD being an arrogant sod who refuses to accept reality.

Eventually someone has to be the adult in the room and make the decision to drop it all together. My old HS team's league is from all over the state. The question must be asked, as a taxpayer do we really need to spend all that money on coaching & travel for 10 kids?

Aside from that, I don't ever see a point where "tackle football" will ever regain the numbers they once had. Should make for some hard choices in the next decade or so.

I think this will be a growing trend especially in school districts that tend to be better off. A quick google search told me that Chapel Hill HS is one of the top 300 public schools in the nation. Most likely, their students are pursuing things other than athletics whereas underprivileged youth tend to see athletics as their ticket out and that's why poorer school districts tend to field better teams and invest more energy in athletic programs.

Sounds like a simple desire not to have a losing season. If you have some seniors and you can field a full JV team with underclassman, then there is really no reason they cant field a varsity team. Ive never seen a school do it this way when there were senior players.

This sort of thing is especially problematic for those upperclassmen who wanted to play and may even have had a chance at a scholarship. Will they be allowed to transfer freely to a high school nearby that does have a team?

Last year, Chapel Hill's sister school, East Chapel Hill, had the same problem. Most rules about high school transfers are intended to prevent poaching kids from one school district to another. This situation doesn't fit that problem.

I could imagine the other schools in Chapel Hill's conference not being thrilled about those two schools being able to field a combined team though.

I think we'll see more of this. What may eventually emerge is states deciding to stop sponsoring high school football entirely in favor of allowing students to participate in elite leagues like we have already seen in soccer.

(08-14-2018 08:52 AM)ken d Wrote:  This sort of thing is especially problematic for those upperclassmen who wanted to play and may even have had a chance at a scholarship. Will they be allowed to transfer freely to a high school nearby that does have a team?

Last year, Chapel Hill's sister school, East Chapel Hill, had the same problem. Most rules about high school transfers are intended to prevent poaching kids from one school district to another. This situation doesn't fit that problem.

I could imagine the other schools in Chapel Hill's conference not being thrilled about those two schools being able to field a combined team though.

I think we'll see more of this. What may eventually emerge is states deciding to stop sponsoring high school football entirely in favor of allowing students to participate in elite leagues like we have already seen in soccer.

They should just not allow playing down. The varsity team is a schools top players in a given sport. There is no guarantee they will be competitive. Other than a new start up school with no senior class---all schools should field a varsity team in the sports it participates in. The JV is just an opportunity/developmental option for younger players. Like I said---Ive never seen a team only play JV when there were senior players on the roster---regardless of how few.

The only even remotely similar situation I saw in my sons district was baseball where a few schools had no JV because the number of players going out for the sport only allowed one team. Basically, everyone made the varsity at those schools. There was also the case of Scarborough HS in Houston that fielded a varsity football team when a roster of less than 30 total players. They didnt win a single game that season---but made the playoff due to a quirk in the rules. Apparently the top 4 teams from each district usually make the playoff--but that district only had 5 teams that year. Then, due to a school being forced to change from class 4A to class 5A---Scarboroughs's district was reduced to just 4 teams during the summer prior to fall camp---so everyone made the playoff out that district for that one year.

I live in SW Virginia. Last season, there wasn't enough kids to field a pee-wee team (6 yr olds). I don't recall that happening in the last 13 years (didn't live here before that time). This season, at least one of our HSs won't field a JV FB team.

(08-14-2018 09:20 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-14-2018 08:52 AM)ken d Wrote:  This sort of thing is especially problematic for those upperclassmen who wanted to play and may even have had a chance at a scholarship. Will they be allowed to transfer freely to a high school nearby that does have a team?

Last year, Chapel Hill's sister school, East Chapel Hill, had the same problem. Most rules about high school transfers are intended to prevent poaching kids from one school district to another. This situation doesn't fit that problem.

I could imagine the other schools in Chapel Hill's conference not being thrilled about those two schools being able to field a combined team though.

I think we'll see more of this. What may eventually emerge is states deciding to stop sponsoring high school football entirely in favor of allowing students to participate in elite leagues like we have already seen in soccer.

They should just not allow playing down. The varsity team is a schools top players in a given sport. There is no guarantee they will be competitive. Other than a new start up school with no senior class---all schools should field a varsity team in the sports it participates in. The JV is just an opportunity/developmental option for younger players. Like I said---Ive never seen a team only play JV when there were senior players on the roster---regardless of how few.

The only even remotely similar situation I saw in my sons district was baseball where a few schools had no JV because the number of players going out for the sport only allowed one team. Basically, everyone made the varsity at those schools. There was also the case of Scarborough HS in Houston that fielded a varsity football team when a roster of less than 30 total players. They didnt win a single game that season---but made the playoff due to a quirk in the rules. Apparently the top 4 teams from each district usually make the playoff--but that district only had 5 teams that year. Then, due to a school being forced to change from class 4A to class 5A---Scarboroughs's district was reduced to just 4 teams during the summer prior to fall camp---so everyone made the playoff out that district for that one year.

Back in the 90s and early 00s there was a division in SC called the "Big 16" and each of the sixteen highest enrollment schools went to the playoffs regardless of their season results. Weird format for sure and made for some early round blowouts

5 California colleges combined their athletics to avoid this type of issues. They are in D3.

Pomona College teamed up with Pitzer College to form one bigger athletics department for both schools. = Pomona-Pitzer

Claremont College, Harvey Mudd and Scripps combined their's to form one big one. Clareont-Mudd Scripps or C-M-S

If they schools have a hard time to field a team? Why can't high schools team up to field one team so that kids do not miss out because of the lack of students to play in games?

(08-14-2018 10:21 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  5 California colleges combined their athletics to avoid this type of issues. They are in D3.

Pomona College teamed up with Pitzer College to form one bigger athletics department for both schools. = Pomona-Pitzer

Claremont College, Harvey Mudd and Scripps combined their's to form one big one. Clareont-Mudd Scripps or C-M-S

If they schools have a hard time to field a team? Why can't high schools team up to field one team so that kids do not miss out because of the lack of students to play in games?

I presume this would be due to travel issues and scheduling practices. For example, my high school had football practice twice per day when I played - 5th period and after school. Every school in my district had two practices per day (after school + before school or during school). Traveling for practice would be a pain in the behind. What about home games? Unless there is a neutral site, would one school want to forfeit games played at their home field?

Back in the 80s I think, Richmond (Va.) schools combined athletic departments for a few years. Seven schools at the time created three ADs. I presume it was a funding issue that forced their hand. Logistics would be an issue but perhaps not an insurmountable one.

Chapel Hill/Carrboro has gentrified to the point that the demographics that would support High School football are no longer here. Between the CTE issue, the worry of more mundane injury, and the rise of lacrosse, field hockey, and soccer you no longer have the boys to play and the girls to cheer. Cheering is no longer cool in Chapel Hill and like it or not, the girls and their parents and hangers oners were probably 15% of the game.


You will lose the sport all over the western side of the Research Triangle. Draw a line from Wake Forest to Apex, east of the line will retain high school football. West of the line, even at the Durham suburbs, it will be tough. Even northeast Chatham County is affected.



I played the highest classification of high school football in NC. Most of the time that meant a fair game against somewhat equal opponents, however some schools were stocked with P-5 college talent and that could be scary. I played in games at Richmond County, Fayetteville Byrd, and Northern Durham. Hits in games like that are why mine do not play football.

(08-14-2018 07:26 AM)ken d Wrote:  https://www.highschoolot.com/chapel-hill.../17767266/

Seems odd to me that this isn't a "bottom up" lack of interest. There were enough younger players, but just not enough upperclassmen willing to play varsity football. That doesn't sound like it's parents who won't let their kids play.

Are there more high schools out there where this is happening?

Maybe in high schools that are in wealthier school districts. Children tend to take after their parents, regardless of whether the parent wants that or not. Most children aspire to be like their parents when they grow up, so if neither parent was interested in football, chances are they won’t be into football either.
Now, if you go into the areas of NC with a poorer population, I would expect more kids to like football and cheerleading. If you go into the states of South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, etc., you will find that football is very much alive and well. Conversely, if you look at those same states and compare the quality of basketball, soccer, and lacrosse versus what you have in the wealthier sections of NC, I guarantee you that NC will undoubtedly be better in those areas.

(08-14-2018 10:21 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  5 California colleges combined their athletics to avoid this type of issues. They are in D3.

Pomona College teamed up with Pitzer College to form one bigger athletics department for both schools. = Pomona-Pitzer

Claremont College, Harvey Mudd and Scripps combined their's to form one big one. Clareont-Mudd Scripps or C-M-S

If they schools have a hard time to field a team? Why can't high schools team up to field one team so that kids do not miss out because of the lack of students to play in games?

They do this in the 2 smallest levels of athletics in Washington.

How many private high schools are in Orange and Durham counties that have siphoned off athletes from the public system?

(08-15-2018 04:23 AM)XLance Wrote:  How many private high schools are in Orange and Durham counties that have siphoned off athletes from the public system?

The school choice thing has definitely affected things in my area of SC than anything regarding concussions. The district, which previously had 3 high schools, opened up a 4th academic magnet school with no sports teams. Now there are about 1000 kids that go there that otherwise would have gone to one of the other three schools and it hurts the general pool of available talent (in all sports).

https://www.wralsportsfan.com/unc-s-fedo.../17768970/

I find it remarkable that in his seven years at UNC Fedora can't recall recruiting any football players or visiting any of the high schools in the county Carolina resides in with a single exception. Little wonder to me that the one player he did recruit was flipped by Dave Doeren.

As this article suggests, maybe the local high schools just reflect the culture of the university.

(08-14-2018 12:49 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Chapel Hill/Carrboro has gentrified to the point that the demographics that would support High School football are no longer here. Between the CTE issue, the worry of more mundane injury, and the rise of lacrosse, field hockey, and soccer you no longer have the boys to play and the girls to cheer. Cheering is no longer cool in Chapel Hill and like it or not, the girls and their parents and hangers oners were probably 15% of the game.


You will lose the sport all over the western side of the Research Triangle. Draw a line from Wake Forest to Apex, east of the line will retain high school football. West of the line, even at the Durham suburbs, it will be tough. Even northeast Chatham County is affected.



I played the highest classification of high school football in NC. Most of the time that meant a fair game against somewhat equal opponents, however some schools were stocked with P-5 college talent and that could be scary. I played in games at Richmond County, Fayetteville Byrd, and Northern Durham. Hits in games like that are why mine do not play football.

Some combined demographic data for the three Chapel Hill - Carrboro high schools:

Total enrollment 3,636

White 54%
Asian 14%
Hispanic 13%
Black 11%

Males 51%
Advanced Placement participation rate 85%

In neighboring Wake County a typical high school will have 2000 - 2500 students. So having three high schools in an area with a total population of only about 80,000 residents probably contributes to this problem somewhat. In the past few years, three of the five high schools in Orange County were unable to field a varsity football team at least once.