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cmett003 Online
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Post: #101
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 03:17 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 02:43 PM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 12:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  So we should just BE in a world of financial hurt rather than alleviate that issue and let the world know about it?

You're right. Let's just cut everything except for football, men's and women's basketball, and see how that goes for us.

Who is saying that?

I am just saying we should align our athletic programs with our peers. We will have 20 sports when Volleyball starts. That is unheard of among G5 schools. Meanwhile, we can't pay for coaches at the level of our peers in the two high profile sports, or build a football stadium that is an asset, while maintaining one of the largest athletic budgets in G5 athletics all because our admin doesn't want to look like the bad guy who took a diver's opportunity to attend ODU and compete in a revenue draining sport away.

But hey at least we are politically correct and diverse! We better never hurt anyone's feelings and do whats best for the school!
10-05-2018 03:27 PM
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odu09 Offline
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Post: #102
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 03:17 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 02:43 PM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 12:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  So we should just BE in a world of financial hurt rather than alleviate that issue and let the world know about it?

You're right. Let's just cut everything except for football, men's and women's basketball, and see how that goes for us.

Who is saying that?

I am just saying we should align our athletic programs with our peers. We will have 20 sports when Volleyball starts. That is unheard of among G5 schools. Meanwhile, we can't pay for coaches at the level of our peers in the two high profile sports, or build a football stadium that is an asset, while maintaining one of the largest athletic budgets in G5 athletics all because our admin doesn't want to look like the bad guy who took a diver's opportunity to attend ODU and compete in a revenue draining sport away.

The American sponsors 22 sports.
10-05-2018 04:23 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #103
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 03:17 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 02:43 PM)odu09 Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 12:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  So we should just BE in a world of financial hurt rather than alleviate that issue and let the world know about it?

You're right. Let's just cut everything except for football, men's and women's basketball, and see how that goes for us.

Who is saying that?

I am just saying we should align our athletic programs with our peers. We will have 20 sports when Volleyball starts. That is unheard of among G5 schools. Meanwhile, we can't pay for coaches at the level of our peers in the two high profile sports, or build a football stadium that is an asset, while maintaining one of the largest athletic budgets in G5 athletics all because our admin doesn't want to look like the bad guy who took a diver's opportunity to attend ODU and compete in a revenue draining sport away.

20 sports is absolutely NOT unheard of with G5 schools, unless we're buying the American's P6 drive. UConn has 24 sports. ECU has 20. Cincinnati has 19. South Florida has 19. Temple has 19. Do we think of or hope to consider these schools our peers?

Exactly why do you think ODU started a swimming program in the first place? Do you think they expected it to be a revenue-generating sport? That it would get thousands of fans and put the school on TV regularly? Most non-revenue sports, well, there's a reason they're called non-revenue sports. There's benefit, even if it isn't one that you enjoy personally, to having these teams. Athletic departments don't start and continue to sponsor these sports for window dressing. They serve an important function for the university and that's why they'll continue to get support, even if you think they're a drain on the two sports you care about.

As for the coach salaries, we've had this discussion multiple times: No reputable manager is going to overpay for their hires. They hired an FCS assistant 10 years ago or so and have given him reasonable raises based on his performance. They hired a coach from a low-major university in basketball and paid him accordingly because, we assume, he was the best option they had in a very shallow hiring pool. People have this notion that coaching salaries are directly correlated to wins in a way that almost makes it transactional; if I pay $1M a year for a coach, I get x number of wins. UTSA pays its coach $1M a year. Is there any metric outside of that and stadium capacity in which you can say with a straight face that UTSA is a better program? ECU's paying their guy $1M (though maybe not for long at the rate things are going). He's never beaten a team with a .500 record or better. The Pirates have lost their last two games against FCS teams. They needed a rather, ahem, fortuitous call at home to beat an ODU team that apparently can't compete because they aren't paying their coach $1M.

Athletic departments exist for a reason. They're not going to crater non-revenue sports to boost football and basketball.
10-05-2018 04:33 PM
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Monarchblue Online
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Post: #104
Volleyball 2020
I'll give you a pass on Wilder, but JJ is our basketball coach BECAUSE they couldn't pay for the type of coach they should have been hiring. We should never be in the business of hiring a 10-20 coach from the Patriot League.

As far as the teams you named in the American, that wasn't even half of their members.

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10-05-2018 08:22 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #105
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 08:22 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I'll give you a pass on Wilder, but JJ is our basketball coach BECAUSE they couldn't pay for the type of coach they should have been hiring. We should never be in the business of hiring a 10-20 coach from the Patriot League.

But who was out there? They wanted Enfield, then his team had that one dunk-filled weekend in the NCAAs and he was USC bound. Keatts was a candidate for a show cause, and then he ended up leaving for N.C. State so who knows what happens after that? Rhoades might still be the right call for VCU but he had a pretty rough first season. And he's getting $1.2 million a year right now. Do you want to pay him $1.2 million? It was, again, not a good offseason to be shopping for a coach. I don't know if JJ was the best they could have done, but they're not going to outspend power-conference schools and there wasn't a slam-dunk guy out there for ODU.

Now if it comes out that they had a more prominent name but talks broke down because ODU wouldn't step up to the mark, then I'll concede the point, but based on the lay of the land that season, I think it was more a matter of ODU finding a coach and then negotiating the price than it was ODU entering the market with a price and seeing what they could get for it.

(Funny aside: Jeff Jones isn't even the highest-paid Jeff Jones in the U.S. The vice president and CFO of Cohu Inc. earned $1.2M in fiscal 2017, while the H&R Block CEO earned about $1M that year — not counting a $950,000 signing bonus. Maybe one of those guys can take a crack at coaching.

Quote:As far as the teams you named in the American, that wasn't even half of their members.

I thought five examples were plenty to disprove your notion that a G5 sponsoring 20 sports was "unheard of" but if you insist: The AAC all-sports member with the LEAST amount of sports sponsored is Central Florida with 16. Everyone else has more than that (Wichita State has 15, but they also don't have football; with it, they'd probably be in the 17-18 range). Navy is a football-only member but hell, let's throw them and their 22 sports into the fray.

And since we're being technical: From the Mountain West, Air Force has 26, San Jose State has 22, Fresno State has 21, Boise State and San Diego State have 19. From the MAC, Akron, Ball State, Kent State and Miami have 19. From the Sun Belt, Appalachian State has 20, Coastal Carolina has 19. And among independents, UMass has 21, Army and Liberty have 20.

And ODU as of now only has 18. They won't hit 20 until volleyball (beach and non-beach) come online.

So I think this notion that 20 sports is some ridiculous luxury for a G5 school is dubious.
10-05-2018 09:04 PM
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Blue_Trombone Offline
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Post: #106
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-05-2018 08:22 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  As far as the teams you named in the American, that wasn't even half of their members.

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UCF - 16
Cincinnati - 17
UConn - 22
ECU - 18
Houston - 15
Memphis - 18
USF - 17
SMU - 16
Temple - 18
Tulane - 19

ODU - 19
(This post was last modified: 10-06-2018 07:28 PM by Blue_Trombone.)
10-06-2018 06:44 PM
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Justanodufan Offline
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Post: #107
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-06-2018 06:44 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 08:22 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  As far as the teams you named in the American, that wasn't even half of their members.

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UCF - 16
Cincinnati - 17
UConn - 22
ECU - 18
Houston - 15
Memphis - 18
USF - 17
SMU - 16
Temple - 18
Tulane - 19

ODU - 19

ODU has 18 sports
10-06-2018 07:19 PM
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Blue_Trombone Offline
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Post: #108
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-06-2018 07:19 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  
(10-06-2018 06:44 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  
(10-05-2018 08:22 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  As far as the teams you named in the American, that wasn't even half of their members.

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UCF - 16
Cincinnati - 17
UConn - 22
ECU - 18
Houston - 15
Memphis - 18
USF - 17
SMU - 16
Temple - 18
Tulane - 19

ODU - 19

ODU has 18 sports

Won't volleyball make 19?
10-06-2018 07:29 PM
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cmett003 Online
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Post: #109
RE: Volleyball 2020
10-22-2018 10:31 AM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #110
RE: Volleyball 2020
I wonder why it took so long (and football forcing their hand with Title IX) to start a volleyball program when a) there's a good bit of talent in the region and b) all their peer institutions and region play it?
10-22-2018 12:28 PM
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Nukesquad Offline
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Post: #111
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-22-2018 12:28 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I wonder why it took so long (and football forcing their hand with Title IX) to start a volleyball program when a) there's a good bit of talent in the region and b) all their peer institutions and region play it?

The long-term timeline was dependent on facilities construction. The prior COO made it clear that a stand-alone VB facility was not an option, therefore needed to be after basketballs' facility was complete to take advantage of the already-exisiting BB practice facility.
10-22-2018 12:40 PM
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Post: #112
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-22-2018 12:28 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I wonder why it took so long (and football forcing their hand with Title IX) to start a volleyball program when a) there's a good bit of talent in the region and b) all their peer institutions and region play it?

2 things... !) Rowing was an easy, no new facilities required and very cost effective way to meet title iV when we started football. 2) When we moved to FBS, that increased the # of football athletes and scholarships so we had to increase the # of scholarship athletes to meet title IX again. This time women's volleyball was the easiest sport to startup that did not require new land or large upfront costs. When the BB. practice facility was planned and built, that paved the way for the JJ Athletic Reno to accommodate Volleyball.
10-22-2018 12:45 PM
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Post: #113
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-22-2018 12:45 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  
(10-22-2018 12:28 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I wonder why it took so long (and football forcing their hand with Title IX) to start a volleyball program when a) there's a good bit of talent in the region and b) all their peer institutions and region play it?

2 things... !) Rowing was an easy, no new facilities required and very cost effective way to meet title IX when we started football. 2) When we moved to FBS, that increased the # of football athletes and scholarships so we had to increase the # of scholarship athletes to meet title IX again. This time women's volleyball was the easiest sport to startup that did not require new land or large upfront costs. When the BB. practice facility was planned and built, that paved the way for the JJ Athletic Reno to accommodate Volleyball.


And for the same reason, beach volleyball will be next.
10-22-2018 01:02 PM
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BigBlueMonarch Offline
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Post: #114
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-22-2018 12:45 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  
(10-22-2018 12:28 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I wonder why it took so long (and football forcing their hand with Title IX) to start a volleyball program when a) there's a good bit of talent in the region and b) all their peer institutions and region play it?

2 things... !) Rowing was an easy, no new facilities required and very cost effective way to meet title iV when we started football. 2) When we moved to FBS, that increased the # of football athletes and scholarships so we had to increase the # of scholarship athletes to meet title IX again. This time women's volleyball was the easiest sport to startup that did not require new land or large upfront costs. When the BB. practice facility was planned and built, that paved the way for the JJ Athletic Reno to accommodate Volleyball.
Actually they built an incredibly nice boat house for the rowing team on the Lafayette river. Additionally, each boat depending on size costs 5 figures, plus the cost of oars coaches launches, and other equipment. Rowing is not a cheap sport

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(This post was last modified: 10-22-2018 06:01 PM by BigBlueMonarch.)
10-22-2018 06:00 PM
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Post: #115
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-22-2018 06:00 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  
(10-22-2018 12:45 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  
(10-22-2018 12:28 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I wonder why it took so long (and football forcing their hand with Title IX) to start a volleyball program when a) there's a good bit of talent in the region and b) all their peer institutions and region play it?

2 things... !) Rowing was an easy, no new facilities required and very cost effective way to meet title iV when we started football. 2) When we moved to FBS, that increased the # of football athletes and scholarships so we had to increase the # of scholarship athletes to meet title IX again. This time women's volleyball was the easiest sport to startup that did not require new land or large upfront costs. When the BB. practice facility was planned and built, that paved the way for the JJ Athletic Reno to accommodate Volleyball.
Actually they built an incredibly nice boat house for the rowing team on the Lafayette river. Additionally, each boat depending on size costs 5 figures, plus the cost of oars coaches launches, and other equipment. Rowing is not a cheap sport

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Actually...you are wrong. It was a conversion of a building on that property that had a meeting venue. Also, donations were used for the boats.
10-22-2018 06:11 PM
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BigBlueMonarch Offline
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Post: #116
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-22-2018 06:11 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  
(10-22-2018 06:00 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  
(10-22-2018 12:45 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  
(10-22-2018 12:28 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I wonder why it took so long (and football forcing their hand with Title IX) to start a volleyball program when a) there's a good bit of talent in the region and b) all their peer institutions and region play it?

2 things... !) Rowing was an easy, no new facilities required and very cost effective way to meet title iV when we started football. 2) When we moved to FBS, that increased the # of football athletes and scholarships so we had to increase the # of scholarship athletes to meet title IX again. This time women's volleyball was the easiest sport to startup that did not require new land or large upfront costs. When the BB. practice facility was planned and built, that paved the way for the JJ Athletic Reno to accommodate Volleyball.
Actually they built an incredibly nice boat house for the rowing team on the Lafayette river. Additionally, each boat depending on size costs 5 figures, plus the cost of oars coaches launches, and other equipment. Rowing is not a cheap sport

Sent from my SM-N920V using CSNbbs mobile app

Actually...you are wrong. It was a conversion of a building on that property that had a meeting venue. Also, donations were used for the boats.
Looking at the July 2010 construction photos, there was nothing on the site, it was new construction. There is another boat house there that is home to the men's club rowing team and the Hampton Roads Rowing Club both of those facilities predate the Women's facility.

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(This post was last modified: 10-22-2018 06:22 PM by BigBlueMonarch.)
10-22-2018 06:20 PM
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Post: #117
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-22-2018 06:20 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  
(10-22-2018 06:11 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  
(10-22-2018 06:00 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  
(10-22-2018 12:45 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  
(10-22-2018 12:28 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I wonder why it took so long (and football forcing their hand with Title IX) to start a volleyball program when a) there's a good bit of talent in the region and b) all their peer institutions and region play it?

2 things... !) Rowing was an easy, no new facilities required and very cost effective way to meet title iV when we started football. 2) When we moved to FBS, that increased the # of football athletes and scholarships so we had to increase the # of scholarship athletes to meet title IX again. This time women's volleyball was the easiest sport to startup that did not require new land or large upfront costs. When the BB. practice facility was planned and built, that paved the way for the JJ Athletic Reno to accommodate Volleyball.
Actually they built an incredibly nice boat house for the rowing team on the Lafayette river. Additionally, each boat depending on size costs 5 figures, plus the cost of oars coaches launches, and other equipment. Rowing is not a cheap sport

Sent from my SM-N920V using CSNbbs mobile app

Actually...you are wrong. It was a conversion of a building on that property that had a meeting venue. Also, donations were used for the boats.
Looking at the July 2010 construction photos, there was nothing on the site, it was new construction. There is another boat house there that is home to the men's club rowing team and the Hampton Roads Rowing Club both of those facilities predate the Women's facility.

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Correct but it was billed and sold as renovation.
10-22-2018 06:42 PM
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Old Dominion Offline
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Post: #118
RE: Volleyball 2020
The truth of this statement remains to be seen. Hasn't really played out well in other sports.

"The first is there is a ton of volleyball talent in the Tidewater area, where most public and private high schools play volleyball."

Certainly doesn't necessarily mean they are coming to ODU.
10-22-2018 07:23 PM
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Post: #119
RE: Volleyball 2020
(10-22-2018 07:23 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  The truth of this statement remains to be seen. Hasn't really played out well in other sports.

"The first is there is a ton of volleyball talent in the Tidewater area, where most public and private high schools play volleyball."

Certainly doesn't necessarily mean they are coming to ODU.

Exactly ! Volleyball competition and amount of students playing is on the rise. Also, I don't think most of the talent in this region is D1. Most I see are D3 and a few D2. I think out of the entire region there are 3 or 4 each year in volleyball that go D1. We simply do not have an integrated training and development program for Volleyball like they have in other regions.
10-23-2018 12:41 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #120
RE: Volleyball 2020
FWIW, last season members of the Pilot's All-Tidewater first team went to Duke, Wake Forest and FGCU. There may not be that many more D1 players, if any, but at least there's that.

I'd also guess that having the major D1 school in the region sponsoring women's volleyball with a newly refurbished home court might also help generate some interest in player development.
10-23-2018 12:52 PM
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