An amazing find from UI fan Spartypants

https://twitter.com/WACspartypants/statu...9933301761

In 1963 University of the Pacific contacted the Pac-8 to argue their case for admission. Reasons they thought they should be admitted include
1. Better academics than the northern schools
2. They are private (for balance!)
3. Centrally located within the conference footprint etc




Comments: note the candidness and naivety of reason #7. Can you imagine somebody making that argument today.

This is a nice picture back to the days when PE departments dominated conference decision making, and most schools were independents. Contrast this to today's world where the money is so large that school Chancellors and Presidents make the decisions often with corporate and media consultants giving advice. Days of yore, days of lore.



Background:
This was actually before the Pacific 8 was formed. There were 6 schools, known as the "Big Six" in the Athletic Association of Western Universities (AAWU) which would be renamed the Pacific 8 (there was already a "Big 8") when the Oregon schools rejoined with the California and Washington schools in 1964. This letter was in 1963 when the AAWU was getting ready to expand to 8.

Good find! Interesting reasons, especially lack of being very competitive. I also found being centrally located in the conference as a sign of the times. Can you imagine UAB, for example, saying they’d be a good fit for the SEC because they’re centrally located? Some of the other reasons like being private, good academics, and no professional teams would be relevant today.

LOL...paraphrasing #7

We'll be your "biotch" for you.

No wonder they didn't get in...it read like it was written by a high school student.

(08-13-2018 07:51 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  No wonder they didn't get in...it read like it was written by a high school student.

Very casual, it was addressed “Dear Norman” haha!

“Hey buddy, wanna pull a few strings for your old pal, Bobby?”

I miss Pacific. It is a shame so much of the old Big West gave up on football.

Idaho also tried to join, as this shows. (Courtesy of Spartypants again). Their fans almost revolted at the thought of the Big Sky. With that as a backdrop, the move to the PCAA and FBS was an easy decision.

https://gomightyvandals.wordpress.com/20...ssion=true

(08-13-2018 04:26 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  An amazing find from UI fan Spartypants

https://twitter.com/WACspartypants/statu...9933301761

In 1963 University of the Pacific contacted the Pac-8 to argue their case for admission. Reasons they thought they should be admitted include
1. Better academics than the northern schools
2. They are private (for balance!)
3. Centrally located within the conference footprint etc




Comments: note the candidness and naivety of reason #7. Can you imagine somebody making that argument today.

This is a nice picture back to the days when PE departments dominated conference decision making, and most schools were independents. Contrast this to today's world where the money is so large that school Chancellors and Presidents make the decisions often with corporate and media consultants giving advice. Days of yore, days of lore.



Background:
This was actually before the Pacific 8 was formed. There were 6 schools, known as the "Big Six" in the Athletic Association of Western Universities (AAWU) which would be renamed the Pacific 8 (there was already a "Big 8") when the Oregon schools rejoined with the California and Washington schools in 1964. This letter was in 1963 when the AAWU was getting ready to expand to 8.

Any chance you could list the reasons after #3? I don't have a twitter account and these images aren't readable here. Thanks.

(08-13-2018 11:28 AM)ken d Wrote:  Any chance you could list the reasons after #3? I don't have a twitter account and these images aren't readable here. Thanks.

Ken, I updates the post to link to the pictures. You can click on them now and blow them up so you can read.

(08-13-2018 11:24 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Idaho also tried to join, as this shows. (Courtesy of Spartypants again). Their fans almost revolted at the thought of the Big Sky. With that as a backdrop, the move to the PCAA and FBS was an easy decision.

https://gomightyvandals.wordpress.com/20...ssion=true

Actually, I can find no evidence that Idaho ever tried to gain admittance to the AAWU. I also don't believe Idaho was ever considered by the league for admittance. It's almost the same argument that Spear and Staben were having about the Big Sky recently. Idaho is too small and too poor to compete at FBS but the alumni have too much pride to associate with the rest of the Big Sky schools.

You're right that the alumni revolted. I had a photo of a western union telegram sent to the president of UI asking something to the effect of "when is the Big Sky going to invite Troy and Genessee high schools"...but my camera crashed and didn't save that photo. It was a pretty funny telegram.

(08-13-2018 11:24 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Idaho also tried to join, as this shows. (Courtesy of Spartypants again). Their fans almost revolted at the thought of the Big Sky. With that as a backdrop, the move to the PCAA and FBS was an easy decision.

https://gomightyvandals.wordpress.com/20...ssion=true

Idaho was in it, but they were so terrible they got booted from them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(08-13-2018 04:06 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  

(08-13-2018 11:24 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Idaho also tried to join, as this shows. (Courtesy of Spartypants again). Their fans almost revolted at the thought of the Big Sky. With that as a backdrop, the move to the PCAA and FBS was an easy decision.

https://gomightyvandals.wordpress.com/20...ssion=true

Idaho was in it, but they were so terrible they got booted from them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Much earlier in that century. Apparently, the fans thought they would get back in again in the 60’s.

That PAC-8 legacy is a curse for the Vandals now.

(08-13-2018 04:06 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  

(08-13-2018 11:24 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Idaho also tried to join, as this shows. (Courtesy of Spartypants again). Their fans almost revolted at the thought of the Big Sky. With that as a backdrop, the move to the PCAA and FBS was an easy decision.

https://gomightyvandals.wordpress.com/20...ssion=true

Idaho was in it, but they were so terrible they got booted from them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Roots for ISU

(08-13-2018 11:24 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Idaho also tried to join, as this shows. (Courtesy of Spartypants again). Their fans almost revolted at the thought of the Big Sky. With that as a backdrop, the move to the PCAA and FBS was an easy decision.

https://gomightyvandals.wordpress.com/20...ssion=true

Didn't Montana as well?

I do always enjoying thinking about the what-ifs of college sports if academic powerhouses and smaller colleges stayed in big-time DI athletics. U of Chicago in the Big Ten, WashU in the Big Eight, Sewanee in the SEC, etc. Most of those would never realistically compete in major conferences, but you never know given how the likes of Duke and Stanford have.

(08-13-2018 05:54 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(08-13-2018 11:24 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Idaho also tried to join, as this shows. (Courtesy of Spartypants again). Their fans almost revolted at the thought of the Big Sky. With that as a backdrop, the move to the PCAA and FBS was an easy decision.

https://gomightyvandals.wordpress.com/20...ssion=true

Didn't Montana as well?

I do always enjoying thinking about the what-ifs of college sports if academic powerhouses and smaller colleges stayed in big-time DI athletics. U of Chicago in the Big Ten, WashU in the Big Eight, Sewanee in the SEC, etc. Most of those would never realistically compete in major conferences, but you never know given how the likes of Duke and Stanford have.

Montana quit a few years earlier. Idaho stuck around until the bitter end.

I've been thinking lately about what the landscape would look like today if WSU, Oregon, and Oregon State would have chosen the WAC over the five schools in the AAWU.

(08-13-2018 06:04 PM)spartypants Wrote:  I've been thinking lately about what the landscape would look like today if WSU, Oregon, and Oregon State would have chosen the WAC over the five schools in the AAWU.

That wasn't the choice they had when there were discussions about starting the WAC.

The WAC's first year was 1962-63. Oregon and Oregon State were not invited to join the AAWU until the spring of 1964. If they seriously considered the WAC in 1960 or 1961, it was a choice between remaining independent or joining the original WAC members.

Idaho wasn't booted. The league broke apart and it took a bit to sooth over bad feelings and Idaho was out of site and out of mind.

(08-13-2018 08:20 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-13-2018 06:04 PM)spartypants Wrote:  I've been thinking lately about what the landscape would look like today if WSU, Oregon, and Oregon State would have chosen the WAC over the five schools in the AAWU.

That wasn't the choice they had when there were discussions about starting the WAC.

The WAC's first year was 1962-63. Oregon and Oregon State were not invited to join the AAWU until the spring of 1964. If they seriously considered the WAC in 1960 or 1961, it was a choice between remaining independent or joining the original WAC members.

The Oregon schools (and WSU) had been talking to both the WAC and the AAWU.

The Oregon Schools made the correct choice.

What is fascinating is before the Pac-8 formed, there was talk of a National conference, with Cal, UCLA, UW, WSU, Stanford and USC plating "majors" in a new league with Air Force, Army, Navy, Notre Dame, Penn State and Penn (yes Ivy League Penn) among others. It fell apart before it ever happened when the academies nixed it. It sort of puts the American attempt to go after the Academies in perspective (but they overlooked Penn!).

(08-14-2018 12:51 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The Oregon Schools made the correct choice.

What is fascinating is before the Pac-8 formed, there was talk of a National conference, with Cal, UCLA, UW, WSU, Stanford and USC plating "majors" in a new league with Air Force, Army, Navy, Notre Dame, Penn State and Penn (yes Ivy League Penn) among others. It fell apart before it ever happened when the academies nixed it. It sort of puts the American attempt to go after the Academies in perspective (but they overlooked Penn!).

They should have pursued Penn St, Pit, Syracuse, BC, and Notre Dame. Those 5 all have academic clout.

I'm thinking in the early days they play 6 conference games: their division mates and then 1 home and 1 away on the opposite coast. Eventually this league might have grown to 12 or 14 members on opposite coasts.

This probably would be a football arrangement. I think both the East Coast and West Coast schools would need a few Olympic tag-a-longs.

West Coast winner has a Rose Bowl tie in. East Coast winner plays in the Orange Bowl through the BCS era.

Fall out had this happened and been sustained: we get a much stronger WAC: Oregon, Ore St, Wash St, Arizona, Arizona St, Utah, BYU, Wyoming, UNM, and possibly Montana and Idaho get tossed in too.
UTEP and Colorado St might be caught in a bind here.
Back east, if Airplane conference east begins an Olympic sports league then maybe the Big East founders join up. If the league expands to 12 Rutgers is likely the first eastern addition.

(08-15-2018 04:22 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(08-14-2018 12:51 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The Oregon Schools made the correct choice.

What is fascinating is before the Pac-8 formed, there was talk of a National conference, with Cal, UCLA, UW, WSU, Stanford and USC plating "majors" in a new league with Air Force, Army, Navy, Notre Dame, Penn State and Penn (yes Ivy League Penn) among others. It fell apart before it ever happened when the academies nixed it. It sort of puts the American attempt to go after the Academies in perspective (but they overlooked Penn!).

They should have pursued Penn St, Pit, Syracuse, BC, and Notre Dame. Those 5 all have academic clout.

I'm thinking in the early days they play 6 conference games: their division mates and then 1 home and 1 away on the opposite coast. Eventually this league might have grown to 12 or 14 members on opposite coasts.

This probably would be a football arrangement. I think both the East Coast and West Coast schools would need a few Olympic tag-a-longs.

West Coast winner has a Rose Bowl tie in. East Coast winner plays in the Orange Bowl through the BCS era.

Fall out had this happened and been sustained: we get a much stronger WAC: Oregon, Ore St, Wash St, Arizona, Arizona St, Utah, BYU, Wyoming, UNM, and possibly Montana and Idaho get tossed in too.
UTEP and Colorado St might be caught in a bind here.
Back east, if Airplane conference east begins an Olympic sports league then maybe the Big East founders join up. If the league expands to 12 Rutgers is likely the first eastern addition.

I love reading about conference histories...even the Big East hahaha.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this---The WAC: Around 1960 BYU and Utah got together with the idea of forming a conference with Wyoming, New Mexico, Arizona, Arizona St, Washington St and Oregon St. Those 8 schools had an official meeting. Washington St and Oregon St declined because they wanted back with their old conference mates and formed the PAC 8. UNM, Wyoming, Arizona and Arizona St said yes. I've read Colorado St and Utah St both wanted in to that original 6 school WAC, but were declined. Colorado St got in about 6 or 7 years later. Utah St was never invited until those 6 original WAC schools left the conference. I don't know that Oregon and Washington were at the meeting or ever interested?