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Tulsa has budget crisis and cuts back on coaches and AD salaries
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Tulsa has budget crisis and cuts back on coaches and AD salaries
(08-12-2018 08:40 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(08-11-2018 10:44 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boise State, San Diego State and TCU were sold to get on board before Rutgers and West Virginia left. TCU then got invited to the Big 12 before they could play a season in the Big East, and that was enough for Boise State and San Diego State leaving along with Louisville jumped ship. I do think it is the non-football schools caused the Big East to break apart. When you have football schools wanted to add more schools that play football to join, but they keep blocking which got them to lose the AQ. Lets say that the C7 left before Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Louisville, Notre dame and West Virginia left? AAC would look like this as an AQ conference today.

Cincinnati
Notre Dame
Syracuse
UConn.
Louisville
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
USF
West Virginia

New members"
TCU
Boise State (football only)
San Diego State (football only)

I could see Houston would have been grabbed to go to 12.

Then lets say TCU, Houston, Syracuse and Pittsburgh leaves? Plus Notre Dame.

Grab SMU, UCF, Rice, Navy (football only), Temple and Memphis. Add Wichita State to offset Navy. AAC would still have the AQ bid. Tulane and Tulse would be left out in the cold along with ECU. Rutgers and Louisville leaves? ECU and ODU gets in. Could always move Cincinnati to the east and add UTSA. UTSA and Rice do have more of a fan support than Tukane and Tulsa right now. So does ODU.

I think with Tulsa's budget crisis might even hurt the next AAC's TV contract.

The Boise State, San Diego State and Navy additions are irrelevant in terms of the C7 because not only were those football-only additions, but none of those schools were a threat to become a full member due distance (Boise/SDS) or commitment to basketball (Navy). TCU was invited before Syracuse and Pittsburgh left. As soon as Texas A&M, Nebraska, Missouri and Colorado bolted the Big 12, TCU was gone.

You can blame the non-football schools all you want for the Big East to fall apart, but Miami, Virginia Tech, Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Rutgers, Notre Dame and Louisville all left the conference before the C7 did. For a league that was originally created for basketball only, who's to say that Georgetown, Villanova, Seton Hall, St. Johns and Providence (and later DePaul/Marquette) did not have a right to protect their top sport either? With the later additions, not only was the competitive levels at risk, but now you are stretching out a league into Texas with multiple members and adding another member in Florida. No way could that have been argued as a benefit.

The Big East Football members had options around 2010 to increase their TV contract value, as well as add a Conference Championship Game. You already had TCU approved as a full-member. Memphis would have been a great compromise selection (TCU was bad at basketball), as they would have been approved by the C7 as well considering their strong basketball history and recent National Championship game appearance. You could have then added Temple and ECU as football-only members to get to 12 teams as a legitimate power conference. Basketball would have gone to twenty.

Big East Football
Cincinnati
UConn
ECU (Football-only)
Louisville
Memphis
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
TCU
Temple (Football-only)
USF
West Virginia


Big East Basketball
Cincinnati
UConn
DePaul
Georgetown
Louisville
Marquette
Memphis
Notre Dame
Pittsburgh
Providence
Rutgers
Seton Hall
St. Johns
Syracuse
TCU
USF
Villanova
West Virginia


Under the FOIA, the news media got emails from the ACC that Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's were willing to leave the C7 behind to join the ACC. Those three would have turn the knife in the backs of the rest of the C7 basketball schools. Those schools wanted to be more inline with Notre Dame, Louisville, Syracuse and others. The issue with those three should have put more effort in their football teams than shutting them down or keeping them down. You do have sugar daddies for these schools that do want their schools be among the FBS schools. One sugardaddy gave Georgetown a lot of money as donation to upgrade their football facilities, but whoever was in charge of that money spread the money around for all sports. That money was earmarked for football upgrading. I do not think that sugar daddy will ever give them money again since the schools went against their wishes.
08-12-2018 09:18 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Tulsa has budget crisis and cuts back on coaches and AD salaries
(08-12-2018 09:18 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(08-12-2018 08:40 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(08-11-2018 10:44 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boise State, San Diego State and TCU were sold to get on board before Rutgers and West Virginia left. TCU then got invited to the Big 12 before they could play a season in the Big East, and that was enough for Boise State and San Diego State leaving along with Louisville jumped ship. I do think it is the non-football schools caused the Big East to break apart. When you have football schools wanted to add more schools that play football to join, but they keep blocking which got them to lose the AQ. Lets say that the C7 left before Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Louisville, Notre dame and West Virginia left? AAC would look like this as an AQ conference today.

Cincinnati
Notre Dame
Syracuse
UConn.
Louisville
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
USF
West Virginia

New members"
TCU
Boise State (football only)
San Diego State (football only)

I could see Houston would have been grabbed to go to 12.

Then lets say TCU, Houston, Syracuse and Pittsburgh leaves? Plus Notre Dame.

Grab SMU, UCF, Rice, Navy (football only), Temple and Memphis. Add Wichita State to offset Navy. AAC would still have the AQ bid. Tulane and Tulse would be left out in the cold along with ECU. Rutgers and Louisville leaves? ECU and ODU gets in. Could always move Cincinnati to the east and add UTSA. UTSA and Rice do have more of a fan support than Tukane and Tulsa right now. So does ODU.

I think with Tulsa's budget crisis might even hurt the next AAC's TV contract.

The Boise State, San Diego State and Navy additions are irrelevant in terms of the C7 because not only were those football-only additions, but none of those schools were a threat to become a full member due distance (Boise/SDS) or commitment to basketball (Navy). TCU was invited before Syracuse and Pittsburgh left. As soon as Texas A&M, Nebraska, Missouri and Colorado bolted the Big 12, TCU was gone.

You can blame the non-football schools all you want for the Big East to fall apart, but Miami, Virginia Tech, Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Rutgers, Notre Dame and Louisville all left the conference before the C7 did. For a league that was originally created for basketball only, who's to say that Georgetown, Villanova, Seton Hall, St. Johns and Providence (and later DePaul/Marquette) did not have a right to protect their top sport either? With the later additions, not only was the competitive levels at risk, but now you are stretching out a league into Texas with multiple members and adding another member in Florida. No way could that have been argued as a benefit.

The Big East Football members had options around 2010 to increase their TV contract value, as well as add a Conference Championship Game. You already had TCU approved as a full-member. Memphis would have been a great compromise selection (TCU was bad at basketball), as they would have been approved by the C7 as well considering their strong basketball history and recent National Championship game appearance. You could have then added Temple and ECU as football-only members to get to 12 teams as a legitimate power conference. Basketball would have gone to twenty.

Big East Football
Cincinnati
UConn
ECU (Football-only)
Louisville
Memphis
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
TCU
Temple (Football-only)
USF
West Virginia


Big East Basketball
Cincinnati
UConn
DePaul
Georgetown
Louisville
Marquette
Memphis
Notre Dame
Pittsburgh
Providence
Rutgers
Seton Hall
St. Johns
Syracuse
TCU
USF
Villanova
West Virginia


Under the FOIA, the news media got emails from the ACC that Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's were willing to leave the C7 behind to join the ACC. Those three would have turn the knife in the backs of the rest of the C7 basketball schools. Those schools wanted to be more inline with Notre Dame, Louisville, Syracuse and others. The issue with those three should have put more effort in their football teams than shutting them down or keeping them down. You do have sugar daddies for these schools that do want their schools be among the FBS schools. One sugardaddy gave Georgetown a lot of money as donation to upgrade their football facilities, but whoever was in charge of that money spread the money around for all sports. That money was earmarked for football upgrading. I do not think that sugar daddy will ever give them money again since the schools went against their wishes.

Hate to burst your bubble, but St. John's does not even have football. Cooper Field at Georgetown only seats 2,500 people and is landlocked on campus. It would never be able to expand that to the minimum seating requirements. For Villanova, their feasibility study for playing at the the new soccer stadium projected them to lose over $7M each year at its inception based on the (then) current Big East opponents and potential revenue. For obvious reasons, that never materialized either.

I have no doubt that those three, at one time, expressed interested in joining the ACC. No one knew who would be going where and who would be left behind. At the time, it was survival of the fittest. The C7/Big East are absolutely united now and not at threat of having members taken. They are in the top non-football conference in the country, and one of the top basketball conferences in the nation.
No Big East school will subject itself to being second fiddle again in a football conference. They have been there and done that.

07-coffee3
08-12-2018 09:50 AM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #43
RE: Tulsa has budget crisis and cuts back on coaches and AD salaries
The story was the C7 presidents all liked Tulane and their ADs did not.
08-12-2018 06:56 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Tulsa has budget crisis and cuts back on coaches and AD salaries
(08-12-2018 06:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The story was the C7 presidents all liked Tulane and their ADs did not.

Makes sense. University presidents live in the academic world, amd Tulane is a prestigious university, the kind of school any academic association other than Ivy level would be happy to have.

But ADs live in the athletic world, and Tulane athletics is far less prestigious than its academics.
08-12-2018 07:34 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Tulsa has budget crisis and cuts back on coaches and AD salaries
(08-12-2018 06:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The story was the C7 presidents all liked Tulane and their ADs did not.

....And presidents make conference membership decisions--not AD's. To be fair---this was a rushed decision and the time line was such that there wasnt much (if any) consultation between AD's and presidents. Ive always felt that the rushed manner in which the decision was made was an unforced error---an Aresco rookie mistake so to speak. There was really no reason to rush. Niether ECU or Tulane were going anywhere and the exit of the C7 was known to be a possibility. My feeling was that no move should have been made until the C7 situation was known and settled----because that C7 outcome would make a significant difference in the options available from that point forward. Instead---rushed long term decisions were swayed and made by schools that would only be in the conference for less than 30 more days. Just 30 days later "all-sports" memberships with non-revenue sports playing largely divisional schedules would have been a very viable option for the western teams. My guess is all-sports offers with a large western contingent including Boise and SDSU would have been a very attractive alternative for the key western partners.
(This post was last modified: 08-12-2018 11:30 PM by Attackcoog.)
08-12-2018 11:18 PM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #46
RE: Tulsa has budget crisis and cuts back on coaches and AD salaries
(08-12-2018 11:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(08-12-2018 06:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The story was the C7 presidents all liked Tulane and their ADs did not.

....And presidents make conference membership decisions--not AD's. To be fair---this was a rushed decision and the time line was such that there wasnt much (if any) consultation between AD's and presidents. Ive always felt that the rushed manner in which the decision was made was an unforced error---an Aresco rookie mistake so to speak. There was really no reason to rush. Niether ECU or Tulane were going anywhere and the exit of the C7 was known to be a possibility. My feeling was that no move should have been made until the C7 situation was known and settled----because that C7 outcome would make a significant difference in the options available from that point forward. Instead---rushed long term decisions were swayed and made by schools that would only be in the conference for less than 30 more days. Just 30 days later "all-sports" memberships with non-revenue sports playing largely divisional schedules would have been a very viable option for the western teams. My guess is all-sports offers with a large western contingent including Boise and SDSU would have been a very attractive alternative for the key western partners.

Well it wouldn't be the first time a president/chancellor confidently voted for something that resulted in the AD saying, "I believe that there are some issues with that" while thinking "Are you out of your flipping mind doing something so stupid?"

Three NCAA appearances and a 3600 seat facility doesn't exactly scream Big East hoops.
(This post was last modified: 08-13-2018 12:09 AM by arkstfan.)
08-13-2018 12:08 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Tulsa has budget crisis and cuts back on coaches and AD salaries
Rice would have been more preferable to the C7 as well instead of SMU or Tulsa. Rice is another heavyweight in academics just like Tulane.
08-13-2018 12:16 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Tulsa has budget crisis and cuts back on coaches and AD salaries
(08-12-2018 11:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  My guess is all-sports offers with a large western contingent including Boise and SDSU would have been a very attractive alternative for the key western partners.

Let's look at the landscape at the time.

Full Members: UConn, USF, Cincinnati, Temple, UCF, SMU, Houston, Memphis.
Football Affiliates: Navy, Boise STate, San Diego STate.

For an FBS conference, East Carolina was the next logical add. That's 12 for football. Say you go with 4 western additions, 15 full members, 16 for football. BYU, Air Force, um UNLV, New Mexico?

So, for Olympics, 3 divisions, 4 home and homes, 5 home 5 road = 18:
East: UConn, Temple, ECU, USF, UCF
Central: Memphis, Houston, SMU, New Mexico, Cincinnati
West: SDSU, Boise STate, BYU, Air Force, UNLV

Air Force's AD turned down the Big 12 because his non-football teams would get absolutely killed.

Or maybe you pick up a nonfootball school like VCU. 14 division games, 4-6 cross-division.
East: UConn, Temple, ECU, Cincy, USF, UCF, Memphis, Navy/VCU
West: Memphis, Houston, SMU, UNM, AFA, BYU, Boise State, SDSU

Is Memphis down for annual basketball trips to Boise and Colorado Springs? Is Houston? And telling your recruits they'll get to play UConn every other year, maybe?

The "western all-sports" wing was never a thing. Houston and SMU have been joining eastern-facing conferences ever since the SWC broke up.
08-13-2018 01:28 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Tulsa has budget crisis and cuts back on coaches and AD salaries
(08-13-2018 01:28 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(08-12-2018 11:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  My guess is all-sports offers with a large western contingent including Boise and SDSU would have been a very attractive alternative for the key western partners.

Let's look at the landscape at the time.

Full Members: UConn, USF, Cincinnati, Temple, UCF, SMU, Houston, Memphis.
Football Affiliates: Navy, Boise STate, San Diego STate.

For an FBS conference, East Carolina was the next logical add. That's 12 for football. Say you go with 4 western additions, 15 full members, 16 for football. BYU, Air Force, um UNLV, New Mexico?

So, for Olympics, 3 divisions, 4 home and homes, 5 home 5 road = 18:
East: UConn, Temple, ECU, USF, UCF
Central: Memphis, Houston, SMU, New Mexico, Cincinnati
West: SDSU, Boise STate, BYU, Air Force, UNLV

Air Force's AD turned down the Big 12 because his non-football teams would get absolutely killed.

Or maybe you pick up a nonfootball school like VCU. 14 division games, 4-6 cross-division.
East: UConn, Temple, ECU, Cincy, USF, UCF, Memphis, Navy/VCU
West: Memphis, Houston, SMU, UNM, AFA, BYU, Boise State, SDSU

Is Memphis down for annual basketball trips to Boise and Colorado Springs? Is Houston? And telling your recruits they'll get to play UConn every other year, maybe?

The "western all-sports" wing was never a thing. Houston and SMU have been joining eastern-facing conferences ever since the SWC broke up.

Did UConn ever care about playing Houston? lol...do they care now? Btw--you have Mempis in the east and west--and I dont think BYU was going to the AAC regardless of who was added.

East: UConn, Temple, ECU, Cincy, USF, UCF, Memphis, Navy/VCU
West: Houston, SMU, AFA, Boise State, SDSU, Colorado St, (+2 more)

Honestly---you'd have still probably ended up with Tulane and Tulsa in the group to make travel reasonable for UH and SMU---but you'd have ended up with an all-sports nationwide conference that would have been had a much more unique identity and would have been closer to being a best of the rest. It would have also offered one-stop shopping for games in every time zone. I'd have added on Wichita just because its a good program. Its also possible that AF would have taken this opportunity to move its olympic sports to a league where they would be more competitive--making Wichita a better fit. 04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 08-13-2018 03:20 PM by Attackcoog.)
08-13-2018 03:18 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Tulsa has budget crisis and cuts back on coaches and AD salaries
Fresno State and UNR are much better attractive alternatives to add then UNLV and New Mexico. UTSA is another attractive school as well. Wichita State to the AAC, and maybe Gonzaga would line up to this lineup? VCU, College of Charleston, Vermont, and Dayton are also attractive to the east for non-football schools.
08-13-2018 03:49 PM
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goldenhurricane2 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Tulsa has budget crisis and cuts back on coaches and AD salaries
(08-10-2018 03:02 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  This is not an athletics only situation. Rather Tulsa has just ended a series of upgrades and building expansions. Unlike public institutions Tulsa must live on a budget no matter what. It seems that the university overall looked around and decided it needed to tighten it's belt. Tulsa tends to be proactive in situations so it may be that they expect the international students and money to continue to be restricted and decided more conservative economic situation may be in the future. Tulsa is distinctly tied to the oil business as well in terms of donations and things have been more down than up on that roller coaster.

As far as numbers go, in the 80s and 90s the students were up to around 5-6000. Tulsa became more restrictive and it's student undergrad enrollement has been under 3,000 on a few occasions but 3-4,000 is the norm and how the school wants it considering the stability of the number for 20-25 years.

Athletically Tulsa is doing fine. The budgets and coach saleries are in the top half of the conference. Ranging from 4-6 depending on sports. Tulsa just finished doing several lockerooms, including football and basketball as well as other facility improvements/updates. The basketball floor is being redone for example.

Is this a positive? No.

But the reality is Tulsa has survived and thrived this long for a reason, it will continue to do so because they keep their eye on things and are proactive in situations. This will not change.

Glad to see someone who actually gets it - keep posting man!
08-14-2018 11:30 AM
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Post: #52
RE: Tulsa has budget crisis and cuts back on coaches and AD salaries
(08-12-2018 07:34 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-12-2018 06:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The story was the C7 presidents all liked Tulane and their ADs did not.

Makes sense. University presidents live in the academic world, amd Tulane is a prestigious university, the kind of school any academic association other than Ivy level would be happy to have.

But ADs live in the athletic world, and Tulane athletics is far less prestigious than its academics.

Hahaha. See Rice. University prez wet dream. AD’s worst nightmare
08-14-2018 05:22 PM
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Post: #53
RE: Tulsa has budget crisis and cuts back on coaches and AD salaries
(08-13-2018 01:28 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(08-12-2018 11:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  My guess is all-sports offers with a large western contingent including Boise and SDSU would have been a very attractive alternative for the key western partners.

Let's look at the landscape at the time.

Full Members: UConn, USF, Cincinnati, Temple, UCF, SMU, Houston, Memphis.
Football Affiliates: Navy, Boise STate, San Diego STate.

For an FBS conference, East Carolina was the next logical add. That's 12 for football. Say you go with 4 western additions, 15 full members, 16 for football. BYU, Air Force, um UNLV, New Mexico?

So, for Olympics, 3 divisions, 4 home and homes, 5 home 5 road = 18:
East: UConn, Temple, ECU, USF, UCF
Central: Memphis, Houston, SMU, New Mexico, Cincinnati
West: SDSU, Boise STate, BYU, Air Force, UNLV

Air Force's AD turned down the Big 12 because his non-football teams would get absolutely killed.

Or maybe you pick up a nonfootball school like VCU. 14 division games, 4-6 cross-division.
East: UConn, Temple, ECU, Cincy, USF, UCF, Memphis, Navy/VCU
West: Memphis, Houston, SMU, UNM, AFA, BYU, Boise State, SDSU

Is Memphis down for annual basketball trips to Boise and Colorado Springs? Is Houston? And telling your recruits they'll get to play UConn every other year, maybe?

The "western all-sports" wing was never a thing. Houston and SMU have been joining eastern-facing conferences ever since the SWC broke up.

“Houston and SMU have been joining eastern-facing conferences since the SWC broke up”—-NO. Not SMU.
SWC announces breakup in 1994.
SMU joins the WAC. A conference with “eastern” schools like Hawaii and Fresno St.
SMU stays in the WAC until 2005.
SMU joins CUSA and plays in CUSA West with “eastern” schools like UTEP, Tulsa, Rice, Houston and Tulane.
08-14-2018 05:29 PM
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