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Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
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Tiger1983 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
(08-08-2018 09:07 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(08-08-2018 08:49 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  
(08-07-2018 09:39 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(08-07-2018 11:41 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  Yet another Penny thread.

December will be here soon. Memphis fans' penny threads will disappear faster than new year's resolutions.

The AAC will not realize its full potential until Memphis better reaches its potential. It is puzzling reading posts hoping for Tiger failure because a powerful Tiger program is in the self-interest of all AAC members just as a strong UConn, Cincy, WSU, etc helps Memphis.

I'm going to be honest.

I want UC to go 40-0 and be the top dog. If that comes at the expense of Memphis, so be it. As a fan, I don't think I'm off base all that much.

Now if Memphis is playing Kentucky or O$U, I'm all behind Super Penny and his super team.

We seem to agree that rooting for AAC schools against all OOC teams is fine because it helps our respective programs. The baffling thing to me is some posters appear to want Memphis to sputter at all times. Of course, they may post as they please.
08-08-2018 10:03 AM
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ShockerFever Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
(08-07-2018 06:37 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Most Tiger fans are skeptical that we can even make the tourney this year.


LMAO. Good one.
08-08-2018 10:12 AM
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ShoreBuc Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
I hope Penny has Memphis back to a Sweet 16 or better status soon. Great for the Conference as the one thing we can control about money is accumulating more NCAA units.
08-08-2018 10:20 AM
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cscottl1981 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
(08-07-2018 06:37 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Most Tiger fans are skeptical that we can even make the tourney this year.

Would certainly like to be close to making it. IMO reasonable expectations this year would be to get into the tournament or at least be on the bubble. However, the only reason my expectations are that high is b/c Penny surprisingly put together a solid 2018 class.

Immediately after Penny got hired I thought this would be a throw away season, with 2019 being the big recruiting class.
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2018 10:32 AM by cscottl1981.)
08-08-2018 10:32 AM
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KnightLight Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
Somewhat similar Larry Brown brought to SMU....Penny will help bring even more attention to the AAC.

That attention will be magnified being at Memphis (local hero, local star) at a program that has had a lot of historical success (vs say if Penny went to ECU...where some interest would come initially, but no where near what he will bring at Memphis).

Will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years as Penny goes after some of the top players in the country be in that...

1) Will they be a one or done type recruit?

2) Can he keep talented players in the program for 2-3 years plus?

Somewhat similar to the difference between Calipari and Pitino...where Cal went after 1 and done's (one title to UK), while Pitino's recruits usually stayed for 2 or more years (one title to UL).

Both can work.
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2018 10:45 AM by KnightLight.)
08-08-2018 10:44 AM
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Foreverandever Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
(08-08-2018 08:49 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  
(08-07-2018 09:39 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(08-07-2018 11:41 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  Yet another Penny thread.

December will be here soon. Memphis fans' penny threads will disappear faster than new year's resolutions.

The AAC will not realize its full potential until Memphis better reaches its potential. It is puzzling reading posts hoping for Tiger failure because a powerful Tiger program is in the self-interest of all AAC members just as a strong UConn, Cincy, WSU, etc helps Memphis.

Hoping for a bad season?

You have a coach who has never coached a college game in a conference that is expected to be tough year in and out.

I am surprised by some Tiger logic here. You didn't show up all last year with a 20 win team. One that showed it could make a run. Why should we assume you will when Penny takes his lumps and gets his feet under him?

You have proven you are a spoiled fan base who shows up for the best team and disappear otherwise. If Penny proves to be another Pastner your program has tanked and your fans will evaporate.

My comment said the fans would be gone come new years. Your reply isn't we love our tigers. It's why do you want us to be bad. That says a lot about your fan base and your view of them.

By the way I want Memphis to be good again, it's good for the conference, your fans aren't so popular.
08-08-2018 10:53 AM
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cscottl1981 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
From what Penny has said, he’s trying to mix in some one and done players, but not have a full team of them. The way he has recruited so far supports that.

No player on the current roster is a one and done and I only see 2 potential one and done guys in our (hypothetical) 2019 class.
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2018 10:57 AM by cscottl1981.)
08-08-2018 10:57 AM
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StillJonesing Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
Pastners first real recruiting class a full year after Calipari left was ranked #2 in the nation, he also had a #3 ranked recruiting class, and a #9 ranked recruiting class on 247 rounded out by a couple other solid classes in his tenure. Penny's class is ranked #28 this year built around several guys he mentored growing up for perspective.

You still have to get them in school, develop & retain them and of course put them in a position to be successful as a coach. It's not like Pastner didn't sign better recruits to a lesser CUSA 2.0 no less years after Cals tenure.

What happens if they don't win big immediately that shine fades pretty quick I expect as the locals are going to protect their own interest and go to coaches that are more proven especially as more of these guys that weren't coach by him in AAU or HS age out. Hard to legally have the same local relationships with recruiting restrictions in a few years.

“I’d just talk about my experience — my experience playing in the NBA. I think that’s enough,” the 46-year-old Hardaway said. “basketball isn’t rocket science, man. It’s not like somebody can reinvent the wheel. You’re not going to reinvent it.


Basketball looks a lot different today than even 10 years ago.
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2018 11:04 AM by StillJonesing.)
08-08-2018 10:58 AM
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cscottl1981 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
Pastner to Penny is a presumptuous comparison. I encourage you to look into the details of Pastner’s career at Memphis. He recruited stars, but that doesn’t tell the full story. That #2 rated class had 3 five Star guys on it, but the #2 ranking is misleading b/c Jelan Kendrick never played for us.

Pastner got the best he could (which was pretty good), but he was a poor assembler/manager of the talent he obtained. Let’s compare one of Pastner’s better teams in 2011-2012. That team didn’t have a backup center. Lol. You could debate that the guys that we had at the 4 weren’t really 4s. We had a 6’9” 200lb center playing at times b/c Tarik Black was in foul trouble frequently. Lots of small ball. The only reason it worked is because we were in CUSA and had awesome guards.

IF 2019 comes to fruition as we hope our class will look something like this...

Wiseman (#1 player)
Watford (5 Star)
DJ Jeffries (4/5 Star)
CJ Walker (rising 4 Star)
Dandridge (4 Star)

That would be a college frontcourt dream team. Josh Pastner never assembled anything like that during his tenure. We’ve been trying to tell you at some point the quality (and depth) of talent is too much for the opposition to overcome. Tarik wouldn’t start with the guys listed above yet he was pretty much the only big man on the 2012 team. Starting to get the picture?
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2018 11:16 AM by cscottl1981.)
08-08-2018 11:16 AM
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TripleA Online
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Post: #50
RE: Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
(08-08-2018 10:53 AM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(08-08-2018 08:49 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  
(08-07-2018 09:39 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(08-07-2018 11:41 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  Yet another Penny thread.

December will be here soon. Memphis fans' penny threads will disappear faster than new year's resolutions.

The AAC will not realize its full potential until Memphis better reaches its potential. It is puzzling reading posts hoping for Tiger failure because a powerful Tiger program is in the self-interest of all AAC members just as a strong UConn, Cincy, WSU, etc helps Memphis.

Hoping for a bad season?

You have a coach who has never coached a college game in a conference that is expected to be tough year in and out.

I am surprised by some Tiger logic here. You didn't show up all last year with a 20 win team. One that showed it could make a run. Why should we assume you will when Penny takes his lumps and gets his feet under him?

You have proven you are a spoiled fan base who shows up for the best team and disappear otherwise. If Penny proves to be another Pastner your program has tanked and your fans will evaporate.

My comment said the fans would be gone come new years. Your reply isn't we love our tigers. It's why do you want us to be bad. That says a lot about your fan base and your view of them.

By the way I want Memphis to be good again, it's good for the conference, your fans aren't so popular.

Our fans disappear when we're not good? By what measure? We have won exactly TWO NCAA games since 2010, yet we have averaged 14,690 over that entire period.

NCAA Men's BB attendance per game, Memphis:

2017: 9,622 (#46 in nation, ahead of Duke, OU, Georgetown, Notre Dame, and all AAC teams except Wichita and Cincy)

2016: 12,028 (#30, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2015: 13,915 (#21, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2014: 16,121 (#10, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2013: 16,336 (#11, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2012: 16,234 (#11, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2011: 16,768 (#8, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2010: 16,498 (#8, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2009: 16,933 (#8, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2008: 16,748 (#10, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2007: 14,527 (#16, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2006: 14,866 (#13, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2005: 9,586 (#48, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2004: 15,432 (#10, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

Source: http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statis...attendance
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2018 11:48 AM by TripleA.)
08-08-2018 11:41 AM
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StillJonesing Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
(08-08-2018 11:16 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Pastner to Penny is a presumptuous comparison.

Not really. Infact Pastner's resume would suggest he was more prepared to coach. He even had similar AAU bonafides along with high level college coaching experience and took over a team he had already been involved with on staff and knew making any transition/learning curve easier.

Quote: I encourage you to look into the details of Pastner’s career at Memphis. He recruited stars, but that doesn’t tell the full story. That #2 rated class had 3 five Star guys on it, but the #2 ranking is misleading b/c Jelan Kendrick never played for us.

To which I said you "have to get them in school, develop & retain them and of course put them in a position to be successful". Every coach is likely going to deal with injuries, attrition, and guys not getting to campus. It comes with the territory and Penny will have his own obstacles. The context of this article was the hype of his recruiting now which is no different than Pastners at that time, less on paper infact.

Quote:Pastner got the best he could (which was pretty good), but he was a poor assembler/manager of the talent he obtained.

Which is ultimately my point. It's going to take more than just recruiting regardless, and he was certainly more prepared to coach on paper.

Quote:Let’s compare one of Pastner’s better teams in 2011-2012. That team didn’t have a backup center. Lol. You could debate that the guys that we had at the 4 weren’t really 4s. We had a 6’9” 200lb center playing at times b/c Tarik Black was in foul trouble frequently. Lots of small ball. The only reason it worked is because we were in CUSA and had awesome guards.

So #1 you had an NBA center. #2 6-9, 200 in college is plenty big, #3 that was actually ahead of the curve for where basketball was going.

Quote:IF 2019 comes to fruition as we hope our class will look something like this...

Wiseman (#1 player)
Watford (5 Star)
DJ Jeffries (4/5 Star)
CJ Walker (rising 4 Star)
Dandridge (4 Star)

That would be a college frontcourt dream team. Josh Pastner never assembled anything like that during his tenure. We’ve been trying to tell you at some point the quality (and depth) of talent is too much for the opposition to overcome. Tarik wouldn’t start with the guys listed above yet he was pretty much the only big man on the 2012 team. Starting to get the picture?

No. You still have to coach them. I've seen plenty of highly rated recruits look like complete ****. It happens every year, hell in the NBA as well and they spend millions on evaluation of players who are also far more developed and it's still far from exact. That's not even accounting for crap coaches that don't have a clue how to use them.
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2018 11:51 AM by StillJonesing.)
08-08-2018 11:43 AM
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cscottl1981 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
Some of your points are fair. He’ll have to coach, manage minutes and keep everybody happy. You are severely underestimating the volume of talent that could be coming our way though.
08-08-2018 11:53 AM
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Post: #53
RE: Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
(08-08-2018 10:20 AM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  I hope Penny has Memphis back to a Sweet 16 or better status soon. Great for the Conference as the one thing we can control about money is accumulating more NCAA units.

We?07-coffee3
08-08-2018 12:18 PM
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StillJonesing Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
(08-08-2018 11:53 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Some of your points are fair. He’ll have to coach, manage minutes and keep everybody happy. You are severely underestimating the volume of talent that could be coming our way though.

I still think it will take more than just 247 assigned stars. Look at that Marquell Fultz Washington team he absolutely slayed on and it was 9-22 (2-16). It had other 4 star top 70 players like Noah Dickerson and highly recruited talent, and a coach that had taken teams deep in the NCAA before. Doesn't guarantee it's going to work out. There are many examples of underachieving both talent and coaches which is why you see many transfers down and firings. The recruiting rankings are just one aspect.
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2018 01:20 PM by StillJonesing.)
08-08-2018 01:16 PM
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HuskyU Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
Where are all the Hurley threads?

[Image: jac-12.gif?w=479&h=331]
08-08-2018 01:20 PM
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StillJonesing Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
(08-08-2018 01:20 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  Where are all the Hurley threads?

[Image: jac-12.gif?w=479&h=331]

I probably more friendly with Memphis fans more from our years in CUSA but impartially as far as UConn and Memphis and I think there is more to actually chirp about with Hurley. He's proven he can overachieve at multiple stops and takes over a program that should get a baseline of talent that's better than what he's ever had to work with before. I respect the floor UConn appears to have, Penny Jesus scares me. Its like a hail mary IMO for a great top 20 resource/support like program in Memphis that didn't really need to hurl it IMO. I do hope it works out but I have some concerns when he talks about basketball not being rocket science. Lot of smart guys in college basketball that have been honing their craft there for decades squeezing every last drop out of the talent they have.
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2018 01:35 PM by StillJonesing.)
08-08-2018 01:28 PM
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cscottl1981 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
(08-08-2018 01:16 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  
(08-08-2018 11:53 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Some of your points are fair. He’ll have to coach, manage minutes and keep everybody happy. You are severely underestimating the volume of talent that could be coming our way though.

I still think it will take more than just 247 assigned stars. Look at that Marquell Fultz Washington team he absolutely slayed on and it was 9-22 (2-16). It had other 4 star top 70 players like Noah Dickerson and highly recruited talent, and a coach that had taken teams deep in the NCAA before. Doesn't guarantee it's going to work out. There are many examples of underachieving both talent and coaches which is why you see many transfers down and firings. The recruiting rankings are just one aspect.

We don’t have that level of talent this year, but we won’t be 9-22 I can promise you that.

IF the 2019 class comes to fruition, there is virtually a zero percent chance we have a losing record. Getting bounced in the first round of the tournament would be viewed as underachievement by most (aside from extenuating circumstances).
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2018 01:50 PM by cscottl1981.)
08-08-2018 01:48 PM
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ShockerFever Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
(08-08-2018 01:20 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  Where are all the Hurley threads?

[Image: jac-12.gif?w=479&h=331]

Because your program and fans don’t have a weird superiority complex that involves the potential to get serious egg on the ol’ face.
08-08-2018 04:16 PM
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Tiger1983 Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
(08-08-2018 10:53 AM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(08-08-2018 08:49 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  
(08-07-2018 09:39 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(08-07-2018 11:41 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  Yet another Penny thread.

December will be here soon. Memphis fans' penny threads will disappear faster than new year's resolutions.

The AAC will not realize its full potential until Memphis better reaches its potential. It is puzzling reading posts hoping for Tiger failure because a powerful Tiger program is in the self-interest of all AAC members just as a strong UConn, Cincy, WSU, etc helps Memphis.

"...I want Memphis to be good again, it's good for the conference... "

It took awhile, but we have agreement concerning the point of my post. 04-cheers

BTW, if Memphis is good again like you want, the fans will come and the Tigers might lead the AAC in attendance.
(This post was last modified: 08-08-2018 04:43 PM by Tiger1983.)
08-08-2018 04:39 PM
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tnzazz Offline
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Post: #60
Rivals: Penny's recruiting could 'immensely improve AAC's cache'
(08-08-2018 11:41 AM)TripleA Wrote:  
(08-08-2018 10:53 AM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(08-08-2018 08:49 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  
(08-07-2018 09:39 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(08-07-2018 11:41 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  Yet another Penny thread.

December will be here soon. Memphis fans' penny threads will disappear faster than new year's resolutions.

The AAC will not realize its full potential until Memphis better reaches its potential. It is puzzling reading posts hoping for Tiger failure because a powerful Tiger program is in the self-interest of all AAC members just as a strong UConn, Cincy, WSU, etc helps Memphis.

Hoping for a bad season?

You have a coach who has never coached a college game in a conference that is expected to be tough year in and out.

I am surprised by some Tiger logic here. You didn't show up all last year with a 20 win team. One that showed it could make a run. Why should we assume you will when Penny takes his lumps and gets his feet under him?

You have proven you are a spoiled fan base who shows up for the best team and disappear otherwise. If Penny proves to be another Pastner your program has tanked and your fans will evaporate.

My comment said the fans would be gone come new years. Your reply isn't we love our tigers. It's why do you want us to be bad. That says a lot about your fan base and your view of them.

By the way I want Memphis to be good again, it's good for the conference, your fans aren't so popular.

Our fans disappear when we're not good? By what measure? We have won exactly TWO NCAA games since 2010, yet we have averaged 14,690 over that entire period.

NCAA Men's BB attendance per game, Memphis:

2017: 9,622 (#46 in nation, ahead of Duke, OU, Georgetown, Notre Dame, and all AAC teams except Wichita and Cincy)

2016: 12,028 (#30, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2015: 13,915 (#21, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2014: 16,121 (#10, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2013: 16,336 (#11, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2012: 16,234 (#11, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2011: 16,768 (#8, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2010: 16,498 (#8, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2009: 16,933 (#8, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2008: 16,748 (#10, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2007: 14,527 (#16, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2006: 14,866 (#13, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2005: 9,586 (#48, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

2004: 15,432 (#10, ahead of all AAC teams + Wichita)

Source: http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statis...attendance


Somebody just dropped a history lesson on the uninformed.
08-08-2018 04:41 PM
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