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Antarius Offline
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Post: #121
RE: Starting QB
(08-14-2018 08:33 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 05:17 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 01:29 PM)Houston Owl Wrote:  He may have been a competent coach, but his abuse of the players was extensive and very dangerous.
Rice had significant problems the season he was at Rice and would have significantly more problems had he stayed. We might not be having football discussions at this point had he remained at Rice.
He was a good coach, but an awful man. He cared nothing about his players. I'm honestly glad that it all finally caught up to him. He ran those players ragged. If the rumors are true, many were forced to play with serious injuries. You can't do that to kids. Rice needed to hire a "softy" at that point in time.

He was actually too bad a person to be a good coach. You will note that he never lasted very long anywhere. I thought that in many ways he was what we needed, a bull in a China shop, and you can't do that without being something of an a-hole. I'm glad he was here 12 months, but I'm glad it didn't last 13. Or as a conversation that IIRC I had with PTH.

"I don't know if we'd still have football if Todd Graham hadn't come."
"I don't know if we'd still have football if he hadn't left."

He was at Tulsa for 4 and ASU for 6. Both are above the NCAA football coach average tenure.

The fact that he went to Tulsa for 4 years, beat us every single time and then lasted 6 at ASU shows that he wasnt as bad as we make him seem. Clearly others were willing to put up with him for a longer period than the 12 months we seem to be willing to say was the maximum. He also didnt wreck any programs by getting them saddled with years of penalties, like UNC did.

He also didnt have no team after his first year anywhere else other than Rice, which means 3 possibilities
1. The reports of how bad it was here are exaggerated
2. The culture was broken that it needed a purge and rebuild
3. Todd Graham changed for the better

Given how he continued to act (see: dream job), #3 seems pretty unlikely.

All I am saying is, the problem seems to be Rice, not Todd Graham. Yes, he's easy to hate, but if Tulsa managed 4 years (beating Rice every time) and ASU 6 (god forbid we had played them), he cant be as cancerous as we make him out to be.
(This post was last modified: 08-15-2018 07:58 AM by Antarius.)
08-15-2018 07:54 AM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #122
RE: Starting QB
(08-14-2018 07:43 PM)RiceOL83 Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 06:35 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Well, Bailiff and graham, for better r worse, are gone, and now we should be looking forward to the next era. This thread was about the QB situation. I for one am glad to see it cleared up somewhat. It looks to me at this point that Tyner will be the #1, or at least the 1A. Stankavage will see a lot of time, and may start some, but since he is a one year guy, I hope Tyner can hold on.

We have a lot of young QBs, and I expect at least a couple of them to develop into top players.

Unless both Tyner and Stankavage totally tank this year, I think we are in good shape at the QB position. JMHO.

Thanks for getting us back on topic. I think Tyner will be first up and have a strong #2 that could easily manage games for us if necessary.

What will be key, IMO, is not just who is the QB but having the QB, OL and guys downfield on the same page. Last year it seemed that each side of the line had it's own ideas on what was supposed to happen, the QB was just scrambling around aimlessly and our backfield was moving for the sake of motion.

Discipline and solid assignments should allow less chaos, which will help our QBs build up some confidence and play a more natural game.
(This post was last modified: 08-15-2018 07:58 AM by Antarius.)
08-15-2018 07:57 AM
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waltgreenberg Online
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Post: #123
RE: Starting QB
(08-15-2018 07:54 AM)Antarius Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 08:33 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 05:17 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 01:29 PM)Houston Owl Wrote:  He may have been a competent coach, but his abuse of the players was extensive and very dangerous.
Rice had significant problems the season he was at Rice and would have significantly more problems had he stayed. We might not be having football discussions at this point had he remained at Rice.
He was a good coach, but an awful man. He cared nothing about his players. I'm honestly glad that it all finally caught up to him. He ran those players ragged. If the rumors are true, many were forced to play with serious injuries. You can't do that to kids. Rice needed to hire a "softy" at that point in time.

He was actually too bad a person to be a good coach. You will note that he never lasted very long anywhere. I thought that in many ways he was what we needed, a bull in a China shop, and you can't do that without being something of an a-hole. I'm glad he was here 12 months, but I'm glad it didn't last 13. Or as a conversation that IIRC I had with PTH.

"I don't know if we'd still have football if Todd Graham hadn't come."
"I don't know if we'd still have football if he hadn't left."

He was at Tulsa for 4 and ASU for 6. Both are above the average NCAA football coach average tenure.

The fact that he went to Tulsa for 4 years, beat us every single time and then lasted 6 at ASU shows that he wasnt as bad as we make him seem. Clearly others were willing to put up with him for a longer period than the 12 months we seem to be willing to say was the maximum. He also didnt wreck any programs by getting them saddled with years of penalties, like UNC did.

He also didnt have no team after his first year anywhere else other than Rice, which means 3 possibilities
1. The reports of how bad it was here are exaggerated
2. The culture was broken that it needed a purge and rebuild
3. Todd Graham changed for the better

Given how he continued to act (see: dream job), #3 seems pretty unlikely.

All I am saying is, the problem seems to be Rice, not Todd Graham. Yes, he's easy to hate, but if Tulsa managed 4 years (beating Rice every time) and ASU 6 (god forbid we had played them), he cant be as cancerous as we make him out to be.

You left out his 2 years at Pitt before heading to ASU.
08-15-2018 07:58 AM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #124
RE: Starting QB
(08-15-2018 07:58 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(08-15-2018 07:54 AM)Antarius Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 08:33 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 05:17 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 01:29 PM)Houston Owl Wrote:  He may have been a competent coach, but his abuse of the players was extensive and very dangerous.
Rice had significant problems the season he was at Rice and would have significantly more problems had he stayed. We might not be having football discussions at this point had he remained at Rice.
He was a good coach, but an awful man. He cared nothing about his players. I'm honestly glad that it all finally caught up to him. He ran those players ragged. If the rumors are true, many were forced to play with serious injuries. You can't do that to kids. Rice needed to hire a "softy" at that point in time.

He was actually too bad a person to be a good coach. You will note that he never lasted very long anywhere. I thought that in many ways he was what we needed, a bull in a China shop, and you can't do that without being something of an a-hole. I'm glad he was here 12 months, but I'm glad it didn't last 13. Or as a conversation that IIRC I had with PTH.

"I don't know if we'd still have football if Todd Graham hadn't come."
"I don't know if we'd still have football if he hadn't left."

He was at Tulsa for 4 and ASU for 6. Both are above the average NCAA football coach average tenure.

The fact that he went to Tulsa for 4 years, beat us every single time and then lasted 6 at ASU shows that he wasnt as bad as we make him seem. Clearly others were willing to put up with him for a longer period than the 12 months we seem to be willing to say was the maximum. He also didnt wreck any programs by getting them saddled with years of penalties, like UNC did.

He also didnt have no team after his first year anywhere else other than Rice, which means 3 possibilities
1. The reports of how bad it was here are exaggerated
2. The culture was broken that it needed a purge and rebuild
3. Todd Graham changed for the better

Given how he continued to act (see: dream job), #3 seems pretty unlikely.

All I am saying is, the problem seems to be Rice, not Todd Graham. Yes, he's easy to hate, but if Tulsa managed 4 years (beating Rice every time) and ASU 6 (god forbid we had played them), he cant be as cancerous as we make him out to be.

You left out his 2 years at Pitt before heading to ASU.

One year.

And that actually helps my case that #3 isnt likely true. He didnt change, still the same ******* looking after only himself.

But still, he chose to leave Pitt, he wasnt fired. So the point stands that he isnt a 1 year terror that wrecks programs irreparably like he is painted here.

He isnt Nick Saban nor am I trying to paint him as such. Just that he beat Tulsa in 2006 and then went to Tulsa and over 4 years dismantled Rice. He couldn't have done that with the 5 players he supposedly would have had left. Unless it was either a one off, one school problem (us) or he changed.
(This post was last modified: 08-15-2018 08:09 AM by Antarius.)
08-15-2018 08:01 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #125
RE: Starting QB
(08-15-2018 08:01 AM)Antarius Wrote:  
(08-15-2018 07:58 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(08-15-2018 07:54 AM)Antarius Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 08:33 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 05:17 PM)Ourland Wrote:  He was a good coach, but an awful man. He cared nothing about his players. I'm honestly glad that it all finally caught up to him. He ran those players ragged. If the rumors are true, many were forced to play with serious injuries. You can't do that to kids. Rice needed to hire a "softy" at that point in time.

He was actually too bad a person to be a good coach. You will note that he never lasted very long anywhere. I thought that in many ways he was what we needed, a bull in a China shop, and you can't do that without being something of an a-hole. I'm glad he was here 12 months, but I'm glad it didn't last 13. Or as a conversation that IIRC I had with PTH.

"I don't know if we'd still have football if Todd Graham hadn't come."
"I don't know if we'd still have football if he hadn't left."

He was at Tulsa for 4 and ASU for 6. Both are above the average NCAA football coach average tenure.

The fact that he went to Tulsa for 4 years, beat us every single time and then lasted 6 at ASU shows that he wasnt as bad as we make him seem. Clearly others were willing to put up with him for a longer period than the 12 months we seem to be willing to say was the maximum. He also didnt wreck any programs by getting them saddled with years of penalties, like UNC did.

He also didnt have no team after his first year anywhere else other than Rice, which means 3 possibilities
1. The reports of how bad it was here are exaggerated
2. The culture was broken that it needed a purge and rebuild
3. Todd Graham changed for the better

Given how he continued to act (see: dream job), #3 seems pretty unlikely.

All I am saying is, the problem seems to be Rice, not Todd Graham. Yes, he's easy to hate, but if Tulsa managed 4 years (beating Rice every time) and ASU 6 (god forbid we had played them), he cant be as cancerous as we make him out to be.

You left out his 2 years at Pitt before heading to ASU.

One year.

And that actually helps my case that #3 isnt likely true. He didnt change, still the same ******* looking after only himself.

But still, he chose to leave Pitt, he wasnt fired. So the point stands that he isnt a 1 year terror that wrecks programs irreparably like he is painted here.

I think he did not wreck this program irreparably. He merely damaged it. I think he would have gotten us on probation had he stayed. I think that while his character did not change, he did learn from his mistakes here. He is a sorry human being, not a stupid one. I didn't like him in 2006, and I hope we can avoid the blind hero worship of then as we go into a new era.

Amazing to me that Todd still has his acolytes defending him 12 years later. I don't want Todd back. Or his clone. Never have. Never will.

Now{brushes off hands), care to talk about QBs? 2018 QBs that is. Not 2006 QBs. If you want to talk old coaches, then mods, please split this off, or better yet, go start your own thread.
08-15-2018 08:12 AM
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Pan95 Offline
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Post: #126
RE: Starting QB
Can we split off the Todd Graham love fest into another thread?
08-15-2018 08:38 AM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #127
RE: Starting QB
(08-15-2018 08:38 AM)Pan95 Wrote:  Can we split off the Todd Graham love fest into another thread?

Or it doesn't need to come up at all. Graham gets brought up as a way to justify 2007 among other things. Stop doing that and we don't need to discuss him at all.

Some of the posters who bemoan the TG discussion are the ones that bring him up the most.

(Not directed at you specifically)
08-15-2018 08:49 AM
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ExcitedOwl18 Offline
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Post: #128
RE: Starting QB
What are the violations that keep getting referred to that would have put us probation?

I know there was a tragic death of a player (that I don’t believe Graham was deemed negligent in) but what were the actual NCAA rule violations?

He never had any issues of significance at any of his other jobs (besides lack of loyalty and sometimes winning).
08-15-2018 09:03 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #129
RE: Starting QB
(08-15-2018 09:03 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  What are the violations that keep getting referred to that would have put us probation?
I know there was a tragic death of a player (that I don’t believe Graham was deemed negligent in) but what were the actual NCAA rule violations?
He never had any issues of significance at any of his other jobs (besides lack of loyalty and sometimes winning).

There are a lot of gray areas in NCAA rules. Rice has always erred on the side of squeaky clean, or at least made every effort to do so. For example, one of Bailiff's arguments in favor of the EZF was that NCAA rules limit practice time, and the time to walk from dressing rooms at the south end of HRS to practice fields at the north end reduced the time available to work in actual practice. I'm guessing that most schools facing that problem would only count time actually spent on the practice field.

The player who died did so in a Sunday practice. I have heard rumors (and I'll call them that, since I was never able to substantiate anything) that Todd held more practices than were allowed, and that sometimes the clock stopped in timing actual practices. I've heard stories that training table meals had to be held late because the end of practice at 5:30 didn't actually happen until about 6:15. If these are true, and could be substantiated, they could cause problems for Rice.

I don't have any proof of any of this. But the rumors are out there, and pretty persistent.
(This post was last modified: 08-15-2018 10:01 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
08-15-2018 10:00 AM
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Neely's Ghost Offline
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Post: #130
RE: Starting QB
I know two things about T. G. beyond doubt:

1) he's douchy
2) he will definitely not be a part of anything that has to do with the Rice starting QB this year...
08-15-2018 10:08 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #131
RE: Starting QB
(08-15-2018 10:08 AM)Neelys Ghost Wrote:  I know two things about T. G. beyond doubt:

1) he's douchy
2) he will definitely not be a part of anything that has to do with the Rice starting QB this year...

Yes.
08-15-2018 10:25 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #132
RE: Starting QB
(08-15-2018 07:54 AM)Antarius Wrote:  He also didn't have no team after his first year anywhere else other than Rice, which means 3 possibilities
1. The reports of how bad it was here are exaggerated
2. The culture was broken that it needed a purge and rebuild
3. Todd Graham changed for the better

I'd say #2 out if those choices.

To get back on track, I think the good news is that, over a decade later, we are finally evolving to the new and better culture. It's been excruciating to say the least, but I am optimistic that we are getting there. We may not be to the 21st century yet, but at least we are probably to the second half of the 20th.

Whoever plays QB this year, I think we are on a better track.
(This post was last modified: 08-15-2018 11:05 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
08-15-2018 10:26 AM
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Post: #133
RE: Starting QB
Anybody have any insight on the battle between Tyner and Stankavage? I'm guessing at this point we will probably see them both against PVU.
08-15-2018 01:24 PM
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Post: #134
RE: Starting QB
(08-15-2018 01:24 PM)RiceFootball2K5 Wrote:  Anybody have any insight on the battle between Tyner and Stankavage? I'm guessing at this point we will probably see ethem both against PVU.

Tyner has a good hold on the #1 spot right now, but Stank is pushing him. The problem right now is that there's a lack of continuity when Stank works with the starting offense. They aren't moving the ball consistently. There's a lot of information on Ricefootball.net about it. Stank is very mobile and makes good short-middle passes. He lacks the experience and arm strength of Tyner.
08-15-2018 02:16 PM
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Post: #135
RE: Starting QB
(08-15-2018 02:16 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(08-15-2018 01:24 PM)RiceFootball2K5 Wrote:  Anybody have any insight on the battle between Tyner and Stankavage? I'm guessing at this point we will probably see ethem both against PVU.

Tyner has a good hold on the #1 spot right now, but Stank is pushing him. The problem right now is that there's a lack of continuity when Stank works with the starting offense. They aren't moving the ball consistently. There's a lot of information on Ricefootball.net about it. Stank is very mobile and makes good short-middle passes. He lacks the experience and arm strength of Tyner.

Thanks for the update.
08-15-2018 02:34 PM
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