http://thehill.com/homenews/administrati...ssion=true

Why does the current president need to justify to a judge about repealing an executive order?

Judges are doing crazy stuff. Trump ended the temp status of Haitians and Salvadorians etc., lawsuit follows, judge allows it to move forward based or media reports of "Chithole" countries.

The lawsuit cited statements it said showed Trump’s “dislike and disregard for Latino and black immigrants,” including reported remarks in January by Trump saying immigrants from Africa and Haiti come from “shithole countries.”

“Plaintiffs have successfully made out their prima facie case,” Casper wrote.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-i...SKBN1KD2MO

(08-03-2018 04:29 PM)solohawks Wrote:  http://thehill.com/homenews/administrati...ssion=true

Why does the current president need to justify to a judge about repealing an executive order?

I have no idea. The origination of the Dreamers Program as best I can tell was illegal as the president has no such authority to arbitrarily override existing signed and executed legislation that was passed by a previous congress and signed by a previous president. Executive Orders cannot override existing law. Executive Orders are simply administrative. They can only change the way existing laws are interpeted or enforced by the law enforcement (which is part of the executive branch). They cannot create or overturn existing legislation. So, you cant override passed immigration law with a made up Dreamer Program with the stroke of a presidential pen. No such power exists.

In fact, the whole reason Trump made the move on the Dreamer Program was because a court case challenging the legality of the Obama era Dreamer Program was going to be successful. If that happened, the program would be immediately disbanded as it had never existed---leaving many Dreamers in limbo--possibly worse off than they were before. The organized unwinding of the program seemed like a better more civilized way to handle the programs termination. Since he is taking flak on the issue from the left---let them have their way. Just stand aside and let the Dreamer Program crash and burn when that other court case successfully proves the whole thing was illegal from the start. Then the mess lands in Nancy Pelosi's lap.

Has this president done anything right on the first try? It seems like he's going back to the drawing board over and over and over again. What a moron. He can't even return stolen children.

(08-03-2018 07:43 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-03-2018 04:29 PM)solohawks Wrote:  http://thehill.com/homenews/administrati...ssion=true

Why does the current president need to justify to a judge about repealing an executive order?

I have no idea. The origination of the Dreamers Program as best I can tell was illegal as the president has no such authority to arbitrarily override existing signed and executed legislation that was passed by a previous congress and signed by a previous president. Executive Orders cannot override existing law. Executive Orders are simply administrative. They can only change the way existing laws are interpeted or enforced by the law enforcement (which is part of the executive branch). They cannot create or overturn existing legislation. So, you cant override passed immigration law with a made up Dreamer Program with the stroke of a presidential pen. No such power exists.

In fact, the whole reason Trump made the move on the Dreamer Program was because a court case challenging the legality of the Obama era Dreamer Program was going to be successful. If that happened, the program would be immediately disbanded as it had never existed---leaving many Dreamers in limbo--possibly worse off than they were before. The organized unwinding of the program seemed like a better more civilized way to handle the programs termination. Since he is taking flak on the issue from the left---let them have their way. Just stand aside and let the Dreamer Program crash and burn when that other court case successfully proves the whole thing was illegal from the start. Then the mess lands in Nancy Pelosi's lap.

The DACA program for the older parents was unconstitutional, if DACA went to the supreme court it would be unconstitutional. Ending TPS is within the authority of POTUS. You didn't see any lawsuits when Obama closed wet foot dry foot for Cubans or when he shut down the border to the Haitians.

(08-03-2018 07:43 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-03-2018 04:29 PM)solohawks Wrote:  http://thehill.com/homenews/administrati...ssion=true

Why does the current president need to justify to a judge about repealing an executive order?

I have no idea. The origination of the Dreamers Program as best I can tell was illegal as the president has no such authority to arbitrarily override existing signed and executed legislation that was passed by a previous congress and signed by a previous president. Executive Orders cannot override existing law. Executive Orders are simply administrative. They can only change the way existing laws are interpeted or enforced by the law enforcement (which is part of the executive branch). They cannot create or overturn existing legislation. So, you cant override passed immigration law with a made up Dreamer Program with the stroke of a presidential pen. No such power exists.

In fact, the whole reason Trump made the move on the Dreamer Program was because a court case challenging the legality of the Obama era Dreamer Program was going to be successful. If that happened, the program would be immediately disbanded as it had never existed---leaving many Dreamers in limbo--possibly worse off than they were before. The organized unwinding of the program seemed like a better more civilized way to handle the programs termination. Since he is taking flak on the issue from the left---let them have their way. Just stand aside and let the Dreamer Program crash and burn when that other court case successfully proves the whole thing was illegal from the start. Then the mess lands in Nancy Pelosi's lap.

You're close but you have to remember that a great deal of our immigration regulations are administrative in nature as opposed to statutorial.

The regulations which have been promulgated are subject to review by the administration because thats how it works.

However, if some kind of benefit has been granted to a person, or group, under those regulations you cannot simply take them away with the stroke of a pen without some level of due process, even if it is just administrative due process which isn't always reviewable by a court.

(08-04-2018 09:06 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-03-2018 07:43 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-03-2018 04:29 PM)solohawks Wrote:  http://thehill.com/homenews/administrati...ssion=true

Why does the current president need to justify to a judge about repealing an executive order?

I have no idea. The origination of the Dreamers Program as best I can tell was illegal as the president has no such authority to arbitrarily override existing signed and executed legislation that was passed by a previous congress and signed by a previous president. Executive Orders cannot override existing law. Executive Orders are simply administrative. They can only change the way existing laws are interpeted or enforced by the law enforcement (which is part of the executive branch). They cannot create or overturn existing legislation. So, you cant override passed immigration law with a made up Dreamer Program with the stroke of a presidential pen. No such power exists.

In fact, the whole reason Trump made the move on the Dreamer Program was because a court case challenging the legality of the Obama era Dreamer Program was going to be successful. If that happened, the program would be immediately disbanded as it had never existed---leaving many Dreamers in limbo--possibly worse off than they were before. The organized unwinding of the program seemed like a better more civilized way to handle the programs termination. Since he is taking flak on the issue from the left---let them have their way. Just stand aside and let the Dreamer Program crash and burn when that other court case successfully proves the whole thing was illegal from the start. Then the mess lands in Nancy Pelosi's lap.

The DACA program for the older parents was unconstitutional, if DACA went to the supreme court it would be unconstitutional. Ending TPS is within the authority of POTUS. You didn't see any lawsuits when Obama closed wet foot dry foot for Cubans or when he shut down the border to the Haitians.

When the government conveys a benefit it cannot just take it away without some level of due process.

(08-04-2018 10:12 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 09:06 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-03-2018 07:43 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-03-2018 04:29 PM)solohawks Wrote:  http://thehill.com/homenews/administrati...ssion=true

Why does the current president need to justify to a judge about repealing an executive order?

I have no idea. The origination of the Dreamers Program as best I can tell was illegal as the president has no such authority to arbitrarily override existing signed and executed legislation that was passed by a previous congress and signed by a previous president. Executive Orders cannot override existing law. Executive Orders are simply administrative. They can only change the way existing laws are interpeted or enforced by the law enforcement (which is part of the executive branch). They cannot create or overturn existing legislation. So, you cant override passed immigration law with a made up Dreamer Program with the stroke of a presidential pen. No such power exists.

In fact, the whole reason Trump made the move on the Dreamer Program was because a court case challenging the legality of the Obama era Dreamer Program was going to be successful. If that happened, the program would be immediately disbanded as it had never existed---leaving many Dreamers in limbo--possibly worse off than they were before. The organized unwinding of the program seemed like a better more civilized way to handle the programs termination. Since he is taking flak on the issue from the left---let them have their way. Just stand aside and let the Dreamer Program crash and burn when that other court case successfully proves the whole thing was illegal from the start. Then the mess lands in Nancy Pelosi's lap.

The DACA program for the older parents was unconstitutional, if DACA went to the supreme court it would be unconstitutional. Ending TPS is within the authority of POTUS. You didn't see any lawsuits when Obama closed wet foot dry foot for Cubans or when he shut down the border to the Haitians.

When the government conveys a benefit it cannot just take it away without some level of due process.

Are you saying it is legislative? Is it judicial? Or is it executive? There are plenty of government programs and benefits that are created, altered, amended etc., at the executive level. The judge relied on "media" reports "chithole" countries = lack of due process. How in the hell is that evidence?

(08-04-2018 10:24 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 10:12 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-04-2018 09:06 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-03-2018 07:43 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-03-2018 04:29 PM)solohawks Wrote:  http://thehill.com/homenews/administrati...ssion=true

Why does the current president need to justify to a judge about repealing an executive order?

I have no idea. The origination of the Dreamers Program as best I can tell was illegal as the president has no such authority to arbitrarily override existing signed and executed legislation that was passed by a previous congress and signed by a previous president. Executive Orders cannot override existing law. Executive Orders are simply administrative. They can only change the way existing laws are interpeted or enforced by the law enforcement (which is part of the executive branch). They cannot create or overturn existing legislation. So, you cant override passed immigration law with a made up Dreamer Program with the stroke of a presidential pen. No such power exists.

In fact, the whole reason Trump made the move on the Dreamer Program was because a court case challenging the legality of the Obama era Dreamer Program was going to be successful. If that happened, the program would be immediately disbanded as it had never existed---leaving many Dreamers in limbo--possibly worse off than they were before. The organized unwinding of the program seemed like a better more civilized way to handle the programs termination. Since he is taking flak on the issue from the left---let them have their way. Just stand aside and let the Dreamer Program crash and burn when that other court case successfully proves the whole thing was illegal from the start. Then the mess lands in Nancy Pelosi's lap.

The DACA program for the older parents was unconstitutional, if DACA went to the supreme court it would be unconstitutional. Ending TPS is within the authority of POTUS. You didn't see any lawsuits when Obama closed wet foot dry foot for Cubans or when he shut down the border to the Haitians.

When the government conveys a benefit it cannot just take it away without some level of due process.

Are you saying it is legislative? Is it judicial? Or is it executive? There are plenty of government programs and benefits that are created, altered, amended etc., at the executive level. The judge relied on "media" reports "chithole" countries = lack of due process. How in the hell is that evidence?

It is administrative.

The hurdle to clear in determining if there should be judicial review of the decision is to show that the move was arbitrary and capricious.

(08-04-2018 10:10 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-03-2018 07:43 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-03-2018 04:29 PM)solohawks Wrote:  http://thehill.com/homenews/administrati...ssion=true

Why does the current president need to justify to a judge about repealing an executive order?

I have no idea. The origination of the Dreamers Program as best I can tell was illegal as the president has no such authority to arbitrarily override existing signed and executed legislation that was passed by a previous congress and signed by a previous president. Executive Orders cannot override existing law. Executive Orders are simply administrative. They can only change the way existing laws are interpeted or enforced by the law enforcement (which is part of the executive branch). They cannot create or overturn existing legislation. So, you cant override passed immigration law with a made up Dreamer Program with the stroke of a presidential pen. No such power exists.

In fact, the whole reason Trump made the move on the Dreamer Program was because a court case challenging the legality of the Obama era Dreamer Program was going to be successful. If that happened, the program would be immediately disbanded as it had never existed---leaving many Dreamers in limbo--possibly worse off than they were before. The organized unwinding of the program seemed like a better more civilized way to handle the programs termination. Since he is taking flak on the issue from the left---let them have their way. Just stand aside and let the Dreamer Program crash and burn when that other court case successfully proves the whole thing was illegal from the start. Then the mess lands in Nancy Pelosi's lap.

You're close but you have to remember that a great deal of our immigration regulations are administrative in nature as opposed to statutorial.

The regulations which have been promulgated are subject to review by the administration because thats how it works.

However, if some kind of benefit has been granted to a person, or group, under those regulations you cannot simply take them away with the stroke of a pen without some level of due process, even if it is just administrative due process which isn't always reviewable by a court.

Of course you can. We do it all the time with tax law. Heck--even retroactive tax laws have been found to be ok--which I found to be shockingly unfair. That said---you make an interesting point. If consider very basic contract law---the Dreamers might have a decent case. Essentially, the program was a written contract with those kids. You need to have consideration for a contract. So, if a kid didnt join the Army or make some sacrifice that could be deemed consideration---they might not have much of a legal leg to stand on. But those that joined the Armed Forces might indeed have a real case.

This will be shut down. A president should no more be constrained on EO's from a prior president as congress isnt constrained on laws passed by a prior congress.

Due process on an EO is the election.

Also, the law and remedy is granted to CONGRESS to handle. Not to captain mom-jeans, and not to the judiciary.