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[split] Fisheries, Conservation, and Private Property
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #1
[split] Fisheries, Conservation, and Private Property
Owl.

The Grand Banks fishery collapsed. There isn’t a free market solution.
08-02-2018 10:51 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Trump tells Session’s to end Mueller probe immediately.
(08-02-2018 10:51 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Owl.
The Grand Banks fishery collapsed. There isn’t a free market solution.

It collapsed because they never tried a free market solution.
08-02-2018 11:10 AM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Trump tells Session’s to end Mueller probe immediately.
ok Owl. Who would give these incentives? The free market means you go out and harvest as many fish as you can catch. There is no other incentive. Just admit you are wrong. History shows that you are wrong. Free markets do not work with common interests. They don’t. This is where you get frustrating. You are so tied to your dogma you can’t step outside and look at the reality of it.
08-02-2018 11:40 AM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Trump tells Session’s to end Mueller probe immediately.
(08-02-2018 09:17 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  but the free market doesn't work in areas for the common good. Shared resources. We all think that having an educated society is a good thing. Asking someone to pay more in their taxes to pay for that where they don't see the direct results of that is another matter. Have you ever heard about the Tragedy of the Commons? It's a social science term. Whenever I come onto this site and with the Ayn Rand worshippers of the free market I often want to share these types of stories.

Here's a google definition: The tragedy of the commons is a term used in social science to describe a situation in a shared-resource system where individual users acting independently according to their own self-interest behave contrary to the common good of all users by depleting or spoiling that resource through their collective action.

We have resources for the common good. Believe it or not. Unions raise the tide. Unions lift wages for all boats. It's easy to scape goat unions on bad workers. That's not a Union's fault. That's managements fault. We just ask that you give that worker due process. There is not a thing a union can do if management has their ducks in a row and want to get rid of a teacher. At least not in Ohio.


I have never seen someone try to use the Tragedy of the Commons as an argument against the free market until today. It sounds like I've beat you over the head with Tragedy of the Commons frequently enough it has seeped in. Now if only I could get you to understand that the best solution we've been able to come up with to the Tragedy of the Commons is private property ownership and rights. And that doesn't mean you have to put a nickel into Johnson&Johnson-GeneralElectric Park Swing. Bryant Park in NYC is privately owned, incredibly nice, and cost *literally* a fraction of what NYC public parks do. And by the way Bryant Park is way more popular than public parks.

08-02-2018 01:50 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Trump tells Session’s to end Mueller probe immediately.
(08-02-2018 11:40 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  ok Owl. Who would give these incentives? The free market means you go out and harvest as many fish as you can catch. There is no other incentive. Just admit you are wrong. History shows that you are wrong. Free markets do not work with common interests. They don’t. This is where you get frustrating. You are so tied to your dogma you can’t step outside and look at the reality of it.

JFC. Mach you don't know two ***** about property rights. Or the history of private management of resources. Let me catch you up:

http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/x7579e/x7579e03.htm
08-02-2018 01:55 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Trump tells Session’s to end Mueller probe immediately.
Here ya go Mach ... here's that ultra-right wing Trump outpost known as .... The Atlantic .... discussing fisheries and how they need private property rights: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc...on/257604/
08-02-2018 01:58 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Trump tells Session’s to end Mueller probe immediately.
Here you go Mach, a peer reviewed journal about fishers and wildlife and the need for private property: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1...ode=uodl20
08-02-2018 02:00 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #8
RE: [split] Fisheries, Conservation, and Private Property
Here ya go Mach, same thing from Penn State: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/dow...1&type=pdf
08-02-2018 02:03 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #9
RE: [split] Fisheries, Conservation, and Private Property
Here ya go Mach, University of Iceland cross published into a peer reviewed journal: http://journal.apee.org/index.php/999640.pdf
08-02-2018 02:04 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #10
RE: [split] Fisheries, Conservation, and Private Property
Here ya go Mach, University of Ottawa cross published into a peer reviewed journal: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/....tb00636.x
08-02-2018 02:04 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #11
RE: [split] Fisheries, Conservation, and Private Property
Here yo go Mach, the Arizona Law Review: http://arizonalawreview.org/pdf/50-2/50arizlrev511.pdf
08-02-2018 02:06 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #12
RE: [split] Fisheries, Conservation, and Private Property
Here you go Mach, the Seattle Journal of Environmental Law, which took a skeptic inquiry only to find that just Individually Transferrable Quotas (ITQs) go a LONG way to creating sustainable fisheries even though it's well short of private property rights as we typically understand it: https://digitalcommons.law.seattleu.edu/...ntext=sjel
08-02-2018 02:08 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #13
RE: [split] Fisheries, Conservation, and Private Property
Now Mach ... do some G*** D*** reading before you pollute with posts so egregiously like that.
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2018 02:13 PM by georgia_tech_swagger.)
08-02-2018 02:09 PM
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SoMs Eagle Offline
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Post: #14
RE: [split] Fisheries, Conservation, and Private Property
He’s not gonna read all that. Neither am I. Don’t need it anyway. I have something called common sense.
08-02-2018 02:10 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #15
RE: [split] Fisheries, Conservation, and Private Property
Ghetto merging a post from SoMs Eagle


Quote:
(08-02-2018 01:50 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(08-02-2018 09:17 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  but the free market doesn't work in areas for the common good. Shared resources. We all think that having an educated society is a good thing. Asking someone to pay more in their taxes to pay for that where they don't see the direct results of that is another matter. Have you ever heard about the Tragedy of the Commons? It's a social science term. Whenever I come onto this site and with the Ayn Rand worshippers of the free market I often want to share these types of stories.

Here's a google definition: The tragedy of the commons is a term used in social science to describe a situation in a shared-resource system where individual users acting independently according to their own self-interest behave contrary to the common good of all users by depleting or spoiling that resource through their collective action.

We have resources for the common good. Believe it or not. Unions raise the tide. Unions lift wages for all boats. It's easy to scape goat unions on bad workers. That's not a Union's fault. That's managements fault. We just ask that you give that worker due process. There is not a thing a union can do if management has their ducks in a row and want to get rid of a teacher. At least not in Ohio.


I have never seen someone try to use the Tragedy of the Commons as an argument against the free market until today. It sounds like I've beat you over the head with Tragedy of the Commons frequently enough it has seeped in. Now if only I could get you to understand that the best solution we've been able to come up with to the Tragedy of the Commons is private property ownership and rights. And that doesn't mean you have to put a nickel into Johnson&Johnson-GeneralElectric Park Swing. Bryant Park in NYC is privately owned, incredibly nice, and cost *literally* a fraction of what NYC public parks do. And by the way Bryant Park is way more popular than public parks.


Watching that kind of stuff makes me physically ill.
One reason I have so much disdain for the big government progressive. Just like your park commissioner in the video they have an answer for every pile of manure they manufacture. Wonder what he gets paid by the tax payers and how much of that $2,000,000 bathroom wound up in his back pocket.
08-02-2018 02:10 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #16
RE: [split] Fisheries, Conservation, and Private Property
(08-02-2018 02:10 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  He’s not gonna read all that. Neither am I. Don’t need it anyway. I have something called common sense.

Then he should at least be forced to scroll past his ignorance for each additional post.
08-02-2018 02:13 PM
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thespiritof1976 Offline
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Post: #17
RE: [split] Fisheries, Conservation, and Private Property
(08-02-2018 02:09 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Now Mach ... do some G*** D*** reading before you pollute with posts so egregiously like that.

I'm a gonna make frak sure I don't ever piss you off, lol....
08-02-2018 02:17 PM
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q5sys Offline
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Post: #18
RE: [split] Fisheries, Conservation, and Private Property
(08-02-2018 02:13 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(08-02-2018 02:10 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  He’s not gonna read all that. Neither am I. Don’t need it anyway. I have something called common sense.

Then he should at least be forced to scroll past his ignorance for each additional post.

[Image: arguing-withidiotsis-like-playing-chess-...851210.png]

Your posts are actually more for everyone else's benefit. Mach is just a pigeon.
08-02-2018 02:19 PM
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TigerBlue4Ever Offline
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Post: #19
RE: [split] Fisheries, Conservation, and Private Property
(08-02-2018 02:17 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  
(08-02-2018 02:09 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Now Mach ... do some G*** D*** reading before you pollute with posts so egregiously like that.

I'm a gonna make frak sure I don't ever piss you off, lol....

me too!
08-02-2018 03:01 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #20
RE: [split] Fisheries, Conservation, and Private Property
(08-02-2018 03:01 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  
(08-02-2018 02:17 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  
(08-02-2018 02:09 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Now Mach ... do some G*** D*** reading before you pollute with posts so egregiously like that.

I'm a gonna make frak sure I don't ever piss you off, lol....

me too!

08-02-2018 03:19 PM
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