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Goodbye Fickell?
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JPBearcat3 Offline
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Post: #121
RE: Goodbye Fickell?
(08-14-2018 10:00 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  Another thing to consider is that McMurphy has every bit as much tied into this personally as any other player in the whole sordid saga. He's unemployed, and this is the story that's either going to propel him into a good job or make him a laughing stock. This is him swinging for the fences on his heels. That and given some of the sloppy reporting so far including having to walk back the accusation that Zach Smith was arrested for DV in 2015, I'm not sure he's the best horse to put your bet on if you're looking for someone to take down OSU.

Agreed that McMurphy has a horse in this race (so to speak), but I did want to clarify that he already has a job lined up with "The Stadium". I hadn't heard of them until this Deadspin article. It's a good read if you have the time: How ESPN Ended Up Paying Brett McMurphy To Post The Year's Biggest College Football Story On Facebook
 
08-14-2018 11:36 AM
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Post: #122
RE: Goodbye Fickell?
(08-14-2018 10:16 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  Social media killed journalism. Where do we go from here?

Journalists killed journalism.
 
08-14-2018 11:45 AM
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Post: #123
RE: Goodbye Fickell?
(08-14-2018 11:45 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 10:16 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  Social media killed journalism. Where do we go from here?

Journalists killed journalism.

That is a misnomer. The 24 hour news cycle, and cable news has killed journalism. Journalists are expected to meet incredibly difficult timelines as CNN,Fox News, CNBC, etc all need content to run 24/7 to keep eyeballs on their channel so they can sell ad revenue. This leads to journalists not being able to check facts, or find multiple sources. They basically have to use their best judgement and sometimes run an article before they are able to verify everything.

The decrease in subscription numbers for Print have also exacerbated this problem. There is a reason I no longer work in this industry, but everyone will be quick to blame the journalist, and not the actual system in which they are forced to work.
 
08-15-2018 07:09 AM
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DownOnRohs Offline
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Post: #124
RE: Goodbye Fickell?
(08-15-2018 07:09 AM)Banter Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 11:45 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 10:16 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  Social media killed journalism. Where do we go from here?

Journalists killed journalism.

That is a misnomer. The 24 hour news cycle, and cable news has killed journalism. Journalists are expected to meet incredibly difficult timelines as CNN,Fox News, CNBC, etc all need content to run 24/7 to keep eyeballs on their channel so they can sell ad revenue. This leads to journalists not being able to check facts, or find multiple sources. They basically have to use their best judgement and sometimes run an article before they are able to verify everything.

The decrease in subscription numbers for Print have also exacerbated this problem. There is a reason I no longer work in this industry, but everyone will be quick to blame the journalist, and not the actual system in which they are forced to work.

The internet killed journalism?

Though everybody's afraid to admit it, it's probably more likely capitalism and technology killed journalism. Two things we're supposed to love.
 
08-15-2018 07:34 AM
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Post: #125
RE: Goodbye Fickell?
(08-15-2018 07:09 AM)Banter Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 11:45 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 10:16 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  Social media killed journalism. Where do we go from here?

Journalists killed journalism.

That is a misnomer. The 24 hour news cycle, and cable news has killed journalism. Journalists are expected to meet incredibly difficult timelines as CNN,Fox News, CNBC, etc all need content to run 24/7 to keep eyeballs on their channel so they can sell ad revenue. This leads to journalists not being able to check facts, or find multiple sources. They basically have to use their best judgement and sometimes run an article before they are able to verify everything.

The decrease in subscription numbers for Print have also exacerbated this problem. There is a reason I no longer work in this industry, but everyone will be quick to blame the journalist, and not the actual system in which they are forced to work.

So... It's not their fault when they don't do their job.

Heaven forbid journalists ever be held accountable.
 
08-15-2018 08:18 AM
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Banter Offline
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Post: #126
RE: Goodbye Fickell?
(08-15-2018 08:18 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(08-15-2018 07:09 AM)Banter Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 11:45 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 10:16 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  Social media killed journalism. Where do we go from here?

Journalists killed journalism.

That is a misnomer. The 24 hour news cycle, and cable news has killed journalism. Journalists are expected to meet incredibly difficult timelines as CNN,Fox News, CNBC, etc all need content to run 24/7 to keep eyeballs on their channel so they can sell ad revenue. This leads to journalists not being able to check facts, or find multiple sources. They basically have to use their best judgement and sometimes run an article before they are able to verify everything.

The decrease in subscription numbers for Print have also exacerbated this problem. There is a reason I no longer work in this industry, but everyone will be quick to blame the journalist, and not the actual system in which they are forced to work.

So... It's not their fault when they don't do their job.

Heaven forbid journalists ever be held accountable.

When your editors don't give you enough time, and decide to run with your article anyway....yeah it is not always the journalists fault.

McMurphy is unemployed, and did not have this issue. Looks like he ran with a story before he got information from both sides.
 
08-15-2018 08:23 AM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #127
RE: Goodbye Fickell?
(08-15-2018 08:23 AM)Banter Wrote:  
(08-15-2018 08:18 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(08-15-2018 07:09 AM)Banter Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 11:45 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 10:16 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  Social media killed journalism. Where do we go from here?

Journalists killed journalism.

That is a misnomer. The 24 hour news cycle, and cable news has killed journalism. Journalists are expected to meet incredibly difficult timelines as CNN,Fox News, CNBC, etc all need content to run 24/7 to keep eyeballs on their channel so they can sell ad revenue. This leads to journalists not being able to check facts, or find multiple sources. They basically have to use their best judgement and sometimes run an article before they are able to verify everything.

The decrease in subscription numbers for Print have also exacerbated this problem. There is a reason I no longer work in this industry, but everyone will be quick to blame the journalist, and not the actual system in which they are forced to work.

So... It's not their fault when they don't do their job.

Heaven forbid journalists ever be held accountable.

When your editors don't give you enough time, and decide to run with your article anyway....yeah it is not always the journalists fault.

McMurphy is unemployed, and did not have this issue. Looks like he ran with a story before he got information from both sides.

This...

McMurphy being unemployed makes this entire story/reporting completely different than most. He did not have to have a company vet his information before posting on his personal social media page, he just needed to be sure to cover his own conscience/journalistic integrity...given that this is the guy who gets into twitter shouting matches with fans constantly, I'm guessing that isn't a very high bar.
 
08-15-2018 08:50 AM
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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #128
RE: Goodbye Fickell?
Journalism isn't dead.... it's just harder to find with the profit driven news organizations run by big corporations and the resource drain on news departments. I'm lucky enough to have some good friends in the news business and the time and effort put it to do good journalism by so many is incredibly admirable, especially considering income isn't anything special. I know my best friend has a fairly high level editor job for a major gannet paper and has been doing 80 hour weeks, while he's paid for forty. You see good journalism. The Enquirer's heroin story this year was good journalism. The biggest problem is that is not where the profit is driven so the corporate heads aren't giving it the resources it once did and we are getting less of it. Plenty of journalist still work hard and give it to us as best they can.
 
08-15-2018 08:52 AM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #129
RE: Goodbye Fickell?
(08-15-2018 08:50 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(08-15-2018 08:23 AM)Banter Wrote:  
(08-15-2018 08:18 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(08-15-2018 07:09 AM)Banter Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 11:45 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  Journalists killed journalism.

That is a misnomer. The 24 hour news cycle, and cable news has killed journalism. Journalists are expected to meet incredibly difficult timelines as CNN,Fox News, CNBC, etc all need content to run 24/7 to keep eyeballs on their channel so they can sell ad revenue. This leads to journalists not being able to check facts, or find multiple sources. They basically have to use their best judgement and sometimes run an article before they are able to verify everything.

The decrease in subscription numbers for Print have also exacerbated this problem. There is a reason I no longer work in this industry, but everyone will be quick to blame the journalist, and not the actual system in which they are forced to work.

So... It's not their fault when they don't do their job.

Heaven forbid journalists ever be held accountable.

When your editors don't give you enough time, and decide to run with your article anyway....yeah it is not always the journalists fault.

McMurphy is unemployed, and did not have this issue. Looks like he ran with a story before he got information from both sides.

This...

McMurphy being unemployed makes this entire story/reporting completely different than most. He did not have to have a company vet his information before posting on his personal social media page, he just needed to be sure to cover his own conscience/journalistic integrity...given that this is the guy who gets into twitter shouting matches with fans constantly, I'm guessing that isn't a very high bar.

You saw that when he had to backtrack on the accusation that Smith was arrested in 2015. There was no formal retraction and correction like one would see in a legit newspaper. Instead he just quietly edited the facebook post with no comment.

As for Meyer, I think it'll be a clean-cut either/or decision. As many of you know, I'm pretty impressed by OSU's President, and I think their crisis management here is such a stark improvement over Gordon Gee last time around holding that disastrous press conference and mugging for the cameras afterwards. Their administration completely went dark, formed that outside committee and waited for the media storm to die down. My guess is that when they come out of their bunker--if Meyer followed procedure and has told the truth--he'll be reinstated. If not, he'll be fired. I can't see them doing something half-assed like some middle ground slap on the wrist suspension and sensitivity classes then reinstatement. Not after how they've handled things to this point.
 
08-15-2018 09:04 AM
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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #130
RE: Goodbye Fickell?
(08-15-2018 08:23 AM)Banter Wrote:  
(08-15-2018 08:18 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(08-15-2018 07:09 AM)Banter Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 11:45 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 10:16 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  Social media killed journalism. Where do we go from here?

Journalists killed journalism.

That is a misnomer. The 24 hour news cycle, and cable news has killed journalism. Journalists are expected to meet incredibly difficult timelines as CNN,Fox News, CNBC, etc all need content to run 24/7 to keep eyeballs on their channel so they can sell ad revenue. This leads to journalists not being able to check facts, or find multiple sources. They basically have to use their best judgement and sometimes run an article before they are able to verify everything.

The decrease in subscription numbers for Print have also exacerbated this problem. There is a reason I no longer work in this industry, but everyone will be quick to blame the journalist, and not the actual system in which they are forced to work.

So... It's not their fault when they don't do their job.

Heaven forbid journalists ever be held accountable.

When your editors don't give you enough time, and decide to run with your article anyway....yeah it is not always the journalists fault.

McMurphy is unemployed, and did not have this issue. Looks like he ran with a story before he got information from both sides.

BTW the context of how the story was published is important. The story was published in response to Urban Meyer's vehement denial of knowing anything about the alleged domestic violence. It wasn't a story about Meyer not reporting this to the University. It was a story that sought to show in response to what Meyer said that Meyer in fact knew about this and kept him employed despite that. I don't have any problem with how McMurphy reported the story given the context from which it came. It clearly showed that Meyer's insulting denial to the press was an outright lie, which was its intent.
 
08-15-2018 09:16 AM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #131
RE: Goodbye Fickell?
(08-15-2018 09:16 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(08-15-2018 08:23 AM)Banter Wrote:  
(08-15-2018 08:18 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(08-15-2018 07:09 AM)Banter Wrote:  
(08-14-2018 11:45 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  Journalists killed journalism.

That is a misnomer. The 24 hour news cycle, and cable news has killed journalism. Journalists are expected to meet incredibly difficult timelines as CNN,Fox News, CNBC, etc all need content to run 24/7 to keep eyeballs on their channel so they can sell ad revenue. This leads to journalists not being able to check facts, or find multiple sources. They basically have to use their best judgement and sometimes run an article before they are able to verify everything.

The decrease in subscription numbers for Print have also exacerbated this problem. There is a reason I no longer work in this industry, but everyone will be quick to blame the journalist, and not the actual system in which they are forced to work.

So... It's not their fault when they don't do their job.

Heaven forbid journalists ever be held accountable.

When your editors don't give you enough time, and decide to run with your article anyway....yeah it is not always the journalists fault.

McMurphy is unemployed, and did not have this issue. Looks like he ran with a story before he got information from both sides.

BTW the context of how the story was published is important. The story was published in response to Urban Meyer's vehement denial of knowing anything about the alleged domestic violence. It wasn't a story about Meyer not reporting this to the University. It was a story that sought to show in response to what Meyer said that Meyer in fact knew about this and kept him employed despite that. I don't have any problem with how McMurphy reported the story given the context from which it came. It clearly showed that Meyer's insulting denial to the press was an outright lie, which was its intent.

McMurphy was going to run with this regardless of what Meyer answered at the press conference. This is make or break time for his career. As for Meyer, he acted stupidly and should have had the presence of mind to say something like, "we were aware of the situation between Zach and Courtney Smith, and I reported what I knew to the athletic department. We were also aware that the Powell Police Department had investigated the matter and declined to press charges." Instead he lied to a reporter about something he didn't want to talk about. If that's the threshold for firing a coach, then you can pretty much get rid of about 99% of them. What I see as actually mattering are the following questions:

Did Meyer violate his responsibility as a Title IX reporter? Unlikely since Courtney Smith was not affiliated with the university and no abuse is said to have occurred on campus or at any university function. And since Meyer says he did report what he knew and the Powell PD was investigating, again unlikely this is what trips him up.

Did Meyer violate the reporting terms of his contract? He says he didn't, which should be pretty easy for the committee to verify or debunk. If he lied in that statement he released, my guess is that he'd already be unemployed.

Did Meyer attempt to influence things in any way? Did he meddle with the Powell PD? Did he pressure Courtney Smith not to press charges? Did he go to the mattresses with the AD to keep Zach Smith on staff when his superior wanted him fired? I call these the "Paterno Questions." These are the questions that I think their committee is looking into, and those answers will determine Meyer's fate. Not that he lied to a desperate reporter playing gotcha at media days.
 
08-15-2018 10:07 AM
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Def Berkkat Online
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Post: #132
RE: Goodbye Fickell?
I think that somewhere along the line, journalists forgot that it's OK to just report THE TRUTH.

Today's journalists are always seeking the "GOTCHA" and "BOOM" stories where they're reporting is slanted towards the most bang for the buck aspect. This turns their "reporting" into an agenda. That's why they shy away from things that may be true, but isn't going to draw many clicks. I believe the word I'm looking for is objectivity.

There's truth on both sides.

Did this guy abuse his wife? I bet he did.

Did Urbie know about it? I'm sure he did.

Is Urbie responsible for this guy's actions? No.

Did Urbie keep him around because he's Earle Bruce's grandkid? Sure sounds like it to me.

Should he be fired over this? As much as I'd like to say yes... I just can't.
 
08-15-2018 10:19 AM
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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #133
RE: Goodbye Fickell?
(08-15-2018 10:07 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  Did Meyer attempt to influence things in any way? Did he meddle with the Powell PD? Did he pressure Courtney Smith not to press charges? Did he go to the mattresses with the AD to keep Zach Smith on staff when his superior wanted him fired? I call these the "Paterno Questions." These are the questions that I think their committee is looking into, and those answers will determine Meyer's fate. Not that he lied to a desperate reporter playing gotcha at media days.

This pretty much tells me you stand with Meyer and Ohio State. Asking the head coach about these allegations isn't "playing gotcha." You really are minimizing Meyers outright public deception regarding the incident. Whether that should be enough to get him fired is a reasonable question, but it absolutely is news and isn't an unfair question from media reporting it. McMurphy's reporting absolutely showed that Meyer was lying regarding his knowledge of this and what happened.

McMurphy's story was on the fact that these things happened and Meyer lied about it. He never made any definitive claims regarding Title IX violations or violations of his contract. He in fact said as follows:

Quote:What's unknown is if Ohio State was in violation of Title IX, which states: discrimination on the basis of sex, can include sexual harassment, rape, and sexual assault. A college or university that receives federal funding may be held legally responsible when it knows about and ignores sexual harassment or assault in its programs or activities.

The Ohio State University's sexual misconduct policy also may have been violated. Included in the Employees Duty to Report section it says:

There was no way for McMurphy to know if Meyer's public statements regarding what happened were consistent with how he handled it with the university. But I think Meyer's bold faced lie regarding this serious incident is a more serious issue than you seem to want to make it.
 
08-15-2018 10:26 AM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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Post: #134
RE: Goodbye Fickell?
(08-15-2018 10:26 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(08-15-2018 10:07 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  Did Meyer attempt to influence things in any way? Did he meddle with the Powell PD? Did he pressure Courtney Smith not to press charges? Did he go to the mattresses with the AD to keep Zach Smith on staff when his superior wanted him fired? I call these the "Paterno Questions." These are the questions that I think their committee is looking into, and those answers will determine Meyer's fate. Not that he lied to a desperate reporter playing gotcha at media days.

This pretty much tells me you stand with Meyer and Ohio State. Asking the head coach about these allegations isn't "playing gotcha." You really are minimizing Meyers outright public deception regarding the incident. Whether that should be enough to get him fired is a reasonable question, but it absolutely is news and isn't an unfair question from media reporting it. McMurphy's reporting absolutely showed that Meyer was lying regarding his knowledge of this and what happened.

McMurphy's story was on the fact that these things happened and Meyer lied about it. He never made any definitive claims regarding Title IX violations or violations of his contract. He in fact said as follows:

Quote:What's unknown is if Ohio State was in violation of Title IX, which states: discrimination on the basis of sex, can include sexual harassment, rape, and sexual assault. A college or university that receives federal funding may be held legally responsible when it knows about and ignores sexual harassment or assault in its programs or activities.

The Ohio State University's sexual misconduct policy also may have been violated. Included in the Employees Duty to Report section it says:

There was no way for McMurphy to know if Meyer's public statements regarding what happened were consistent with how he handled it with the university. But I think Meyer's bold faced lie regarding this serious incident is a more serious issue than you seem to want to make it.

It's possible to believe both. McMurphy was playing gotcha because he had a career defining story, and Meyer did lie in his answer. Even you concede as to a reasonable doubt whether that's enough to fire him over. What I could see happening is that--provided Meyer did everything correctly behind the scenes--they still suspend him for half a season for lying at media days, and I'd guess that's being discussed should all the "Paterno Questions" be answered in Meyer's favor.
 
08-15-2018 10:52 AM
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