The unofficial online home for fans of the University of Cincinnati Bearcats. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(08-08-2018 02:18 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(08-08-2018 10:23 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  

(08-08-2018 07:33 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(08-08-2018 05:42 AM)Z-Fly Wrote:  I am actually a grad of Miami U, but a big UC fan. I love this city, and the stadium is 10 min from my house. Hopefully, you guys don't hate on us non-alum fans too much!

No hate at all; all are welcome to be part of the UC community, Bearcat sporting events and be passionate supporters of the home team.

The "lunatic fringe" referenced earlier in this thread, in my mind, is about a non-alumni cohort that affiliates with athletics only and then demonstrates blind allegiance to a winning coach (Paterno); even when confronted with facts confirming transgressions that harmed individuals and damaged the university's overall reputation.

This. I am not a UC alum; in fact, I attended Ohio State for a while before transferring to a technical school and graduating there. But I grew up in Cincinnati and became a fan at a very young age, and my loyalty remains with the teams I grew up loving. I have no problem with OSU fans who didn't graduate there; just saying that when I encounter one who is a raving lunatic, it's rarely a graduate of the university.

It's like this with all the big-name sports schools, ND, UK, OSU, etc. The nutballs are rarely actual graduates.

So true when I used to visit our KY factories the workers on the factory floor were all rabid UK fans and we knew none of them every stepped into a college classroom.

(08-08-2018 04:10 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(08-08-2018 02:18 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(08-08-2018 10:23 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  

(08-08-2018 07:33 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(08-08-2018 05:42 AM)Z-Fly Wrote:  I am actually a grad of Miami U, but a big UC fan. I love this city, and the stadium is 10 min from my house. Hopefully, you guys don't hate on us non-alum fans too much!

No hate at all; all are welcome to be part of the UC community, Bearcat sporting events and be passionate supporters of the home team.

The "lunatic fringe" referenced earlier in this thread, in my mind, is about a non-alumni cohort that affiliates with athletics only and then demonstrates blind allegiance to a winning coach (Paterno); even when confronted with facts confirming transgressions that harmed individuals and damaged the university's overall reputation.

This. I am not a UC alum; in fact, I attended Ohio State for a while before transferring to a technical school and graduating there. But I grew up in Cincinnati and became a fan at a very young age, and my loyalty remains with the teams I grew up loving. I have no problem with OSU fans who didn't graduate there; just saying that when I encounter one who is a raving lunatic, it's rarely a graduate of the university.

It's like this with all the big-name sports schools, ND, UK, OSU, etc. The nutballs are rarely actual graduates.

So true when I used to visit our KY factories the workers on the factory floor were all rabid UK fans and we knew none of them every stepped into a college classroom.

i think lao tzu said something about keeping the masses ignorant. do your job don't worry about that. banish the sage as well. i'd keep that in mind. it might take some time, but folks might figure out how to get by if there were no sage. might have to do some of yern own thinkin.' i reckon lao tzu would say something about the river

t shirt fans are more critical to a university overall than alumni. goodbye cash cow if your expanded fanbase starts to trickle to an exit. revenue from sports is most likely the largest contributor to b1g t1me un1vers1t1es?

(08-08-2018 09:02 PM)Lush Wrote:  

(08-08-2018 04:10 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(08-08-2018 02:18 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(08-08-2018 10:23 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  

(08-08-2018 07:33 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  No hate at all; all are welcome to be part of the UC community, Bearcat sporting events and be passionate supporters of the home team.

The "lunatic fringe" referenced earlier in this thread, in my mind, is about a non-alumni cohort that affiliates with athletics only and then demonstrates blind allegiance to a winning coach (Paterno); even when confronted with facts confirming transgressions that harmed individuals and damaged the university's overall reputation.

This. I am not a UC alum; in fact, I attended Ohio State for a while before transferring to a technical school and graduating there. But I grew up in Cincinnati and became a fan at a very young age, and my loyalty remains with the teams I grew up loving. I have no problem with OSU fans who didn't graduate there; just saying that when I encounter one who is a raving lunatic, it's rarely a graduate of the university.

It's like this with all the big-name sports schools, ND, UK, OSU, etc. The nutballs are rarely actual graduates.

So true when I used to visit our KY factories the workers on the factory floor were all rabid UK fans and we knew none of them every stepped into a college classroom.

i think lao tzu said something about keeping the masses ignorant. do your job don't worry about that. banish the sage as well. i'd keep that in mind. it might take some time, but folks might figure out how to get by if there were no sage. might have to do some of yern own thinkin.' i reckon lao tzu would say something about the river

t shirt fans are more critical to a university overall than alumni. goodbye cash cow if your expanded fanbase starts to trickle to an exit. revenue from sports is most likely the largest contributor to b1g t1me un1vers1t1es?

You think Ohio State is sitting on that 5B endowment because of their t-shirt alumni? You think the t-shirt alumni donated the 500M they raised last year? You think the t-shirt alumni had anything to do with the billion dollars in research funding they bring in every year? You think the children of the t-shirt alumni are the reason their average ACT score is 30? For Christ sake, their actual alumni (provided they don't make a multi thousand dollar donation ever year) have to enter a lottery for a chance to buy 2 tickets to 2 games. You think they couldn't still sell out that stadium without the t-shirt alumni? Maybe t-shirt sales go down a bit, but the t-shirt alumni are not what's keeping the lights on in Columbus. Ohio State football is literally a drop in the financial bucket at that place. Ohio State's football program turns a nice profit that fully funds an athletic department that offers 30 something sports and finishes in the top 5 of the athletic directors' cup ever year. Beyond that, it is literally next to nothing in the larger financial picture of the place.

And I bring this up because too often UC people who so desperately want to be big time at sports try to justify it as some magic gateway that will move UC up academically. You know what will make the University of Cincinnati a better university? Making the commitment and investment to make the University of Cincinnati a better university. It's not throwing money at athletics and expecting some mythical Flutie Effect to get us a Comprehensive Cancer Center or AAU membership or a couple of extra points on our freshmen ACT scores.

Are there really people who think spending on sports will make a school better academically? I’ve never heard of that.

(08-08-2018 11:36 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  

(08-08-2018 09:02 PM)Lush Wrote:  

(08-08-2018 04:10 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(08-08-2018 02:18 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(08-08-2018 10:23 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  This. I am not a UC alum; in fact, I attended Ohio State for a while before transferring to a technical school and graduating there. But I grew up in Cincinnati and became a fan at a very young age, and my loyalty remains with the teams I grew up loving. I have no problem with OSU fans who didn't graduate there; just saying that when I encounter one who is a raving lunatic, it's rarely a graduate of the university.

It's like this with all the big-name sports schools, ND, UK, OSU, etc. The nutballs are rarely actual graduates.

So true when I used to visit our KY factories the workers on the factory floor were all rabid UK fans and we knew none of them every stepped into a college classroom.

i think lao tzu said something about keeping the masses ignorant. do your job don't worry about that. banish the sage as well. i'd keep that in mind. it might take some time, but folks might figure out how to get by if there were no sage. might have to do some of yern own thinkin.' i reckon lao tzu would say something about the river

t shirt fans are more critical to a university overall than alumni. goodbye cash cow if your expanded fanbase starts to trickle to an exit. revenue from sports is most likely the largest contributor to b1g t1me un1vers1t1es?

You think Ohio State is sitting on that 5B endowment because of their t-shirt alumni? You think the t-shirt alumni donated the 500M they raised last year? You think the t-shirt alumni had anything to do with the billion dollars in research funding they bring in every year? You think the children of the t-shirt alumni are the reason their average ACT score is 30? For Christ sake, their actual alumni (provided they don't make a multi thousand dollar donation ever year) have to enter a lottery for a chance to buy 2 tickets to 2 games. You think they couldn't still sell out that stadium without the t-shirt alumni? Maybe t-shirt sales go down a bit, but the t-shirt alumni are not what's keeping the lights on in Columbus. Ohio State football is literally a drop in the financial bucket at that place. Ohio State's football program turns a nice profit that fully funds an athletic department that offers 30 something sports and finishes in the top 5 of the athletic directors' cup ever year. Beyond that, it is literally next to nothing in the larger financial picture of the place.

And I bring this up because too often UC people who so desperately want to be big time at sports try to justify it as some magic gateway that will move UC up academically. You know what will make the University of Cincinnati a better university? Making the commitment and investment to make the University of Cincinnati a better university. It's not throwing money at athletics and expecting some mythical Flutie Effect to get us a Comprehensive Cancer Center or AAU membership or a couple of extra points on our freshmen ACT scores.

I think you are too quick to dismiss the Big Lots Buckeyes. The guy who owns my workplace just donated 1.5 Million for some clocktower on campus his name is now on. He has a climbing wall on campus, and had made numerous donations to the athletic department, and gets invited by Gene Smith to go on a chartered plane to attend away games.

He never went to college, and he is from Michigan. Those people keep that machine going, and it would be nice if UC had more people shelling out big money, and less people who act like they have big money on forums.

(08-08-2018 07:42 AM)doss2 Wrote:  

(08-08-2018 05:42 AM)Z-Fly Wrote:  I am actually a grad of Miami U, but a big UC fan. I love this city, and the stadium is 10 min from my house. Hopefully, you guys don't hate on us non-alum fans too much!

Just do not wear MU gear to NIP except when MU is playing UC. You do not need to wear UC gear but I hate when others wear gear of a non playing team.

I wish MU well except when playing UC. I am happy if MU wins the MAC as long as we beat you.

I don't follow Miami sports at all. I've had season tickets to UC Football since 2007. I'll be at the UCLA game. I wore UC stuff to the Miami game in Oxford last year.

Miami did me well. I have a good job. I enjoyed my time there. I'll swing up to Oxford once every couple of years. It's well in my past though.

did carl lindner go to uc?

(08-09-2018 07:09 AM)Lush Wrote:  did carl lindner go to uc?

And is Carl Lindner's support of UC because he's one of the major corporate titans in the city or because he's some guy who's obsessed with UC sports? Don't confuse cultivating support from local corporate leaders and wealthy individuals (which UC should be doing) who want to help the city and university move forward with a bunch of everyday guys whose only attachment to the university is through sports and who could care less about anything the university does other than win games.

I'm not saying a larger fanbase wouldn't be nice. We could use it. But to say that sports is the largest revenue contributor at schools like Michigan, Wisconsin or Ohio State is flat out mistaken and ignorant as it is to imply that the vast majority of t-shirt fans give a crap about anything else related to the university other than football and basketball.

University of Michigan budget: 9.05B Athletic Dept revenue/profit: 185M/10M
Ohio State budget: 7.1B Athletic Dept revenue/profit 185M/12M
University of Wisconsin--Madison budget: 6.1B Athletic Department revenue/profit 143M/1M

A drop in the bucket and once the football/basketball money is used to cover the rest of the athletic department budget, literally nothing relative to those universities' budgets. Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see UC develop a profitable athletic department that isn't dependent on subsidies, but believing that athletics could ever be the largest--or even a primary--revenue contributor to the overall school is nonsense.

(08-09-2018 07:09 AM)Lush Wrote:  did carl lindner go to uc?

Carl dropped out of HS but his sons did graduate from UC Bus Ad

(08-09-2018 06:48 AM)Z-Fly Wrote:  

(08-08-2018 07:42 AM)doss2 Wrote:  

(08-08-2018 05:42 AM)Z-Fly Wrote:  I am actually a grad of Miami U, but a big UC fan. I love this city, and the stadium is 10 min from my house. Hopefully, you guys don't hate on us non-alum fans too much!

Just do not wear MU gear to NIP except when MU is playing UC. You do not need to wear UC gear but I hate when others wear gear of a non playing team.

I wish MU well except when playing UC. I am happy if MU wins the MAC as long as we beat you.

I don't follow Miami sports at all. I've had season tickets to UC Football since 2007. I'll be at the UCLA game. I wore UC stuff to the Miami game in Oxford last year.

Miami did me well. I have a good job. I enjoyed my time there. I'll swing up to Oxford once every couple of years. It's well in my past though.

We are happy for you support!

(08-07-2018 09:26 PM)Lush Wrote:  i never really got the thing where someone had more of a right to support a university and or it's athletics just because so and so went to said university.

I did not attend UC, but it has gotten waaaaaaaaay more money from me than the two schools I graduated from.

In my opinion, there's a lot or room for people on the UC Bandwagon.

I know this thread has taken a short detour but the conversation has been pretty interesting.

Non-alumni donors contribute significantly to UC and most major universities. These folks should always be cultivated. Some (probably not most) are engaged through athletics. But there are countless examples of other pathways for them to connect. CCM for example; folks in the arts community who support opera or ballet and want Cincinnati to be a destination for preparatory, undergraduate, and graduate education nationally.

I'm not an OSU fan but I'll give credit where credit is due. They've done a fine job of engaging students to stay connected as dues paying members of their alumni association. But my recollection is they've done this in part by leveraging access to football tickets through a lottery system that requires membership in order to have an opportunity to buy tickets for a single game. They've made that work. Realistically, only a handful of schools in the country exercise that kind of leverage. So it would be unfair to benchmark UC, or even most P5 schools against what they do up I-71.

With that said, UC's growth the past decade in all measures has been pretty remarkable. Growing athletic giving and attendance organically with a strong (young) alumni cohort will assure good crowds, even when our teams aren't winning as much as hoped.

Speaking of donors...this news just came out of Columbus today...

Police Report:
http://toledobladedata.com/pdfs/zsmith.pdf

Also in the car at the time of arrest, a bottle of "Libido Max" Supplements...which further confirms my theory that most men who beat their wives/girlfriends can't get it up.

(08-13-2018 03:32 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  Speaking of donors...this news just came out of Columbus today...

Police Report:
http://toledobladedata.com/pdfs/zsmith.pdf

Also in the car at the time of arrest, a bottle of "Libido Max" Supplements...which further confirms my theory that most men who beat their wives/girlfriends can't get it up.

Further proving that this town is full of mindless O$U sycophants that will do anything to protect the school.

If no one at the Columbus Dispatch knew about that, they’re incompetent. If they did know, they’re complicit.

Step back for a moment. For the first thing, Presidents Club is for academic donations, so the judge is not necessarily a backer of the AD/football program. He may very well be, but that's not where his donations are going. Secondly, how did these reductions coincide with Ohio sentencing guidelines for first time offenders. I had a friend get a DUI in Ohio and his sentence was reduced after he completed the 3 day anti-alcohol sleepover. Was Zach Smith's sentence reduction consistent with other first time offenders both with this judge and under standard sentencing guidelines or did they deviate significantly?

McMurphy is not a good reporter and journalism by twitter only makes that worse.

(08-13-2018 10:19 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-13-2018 03:32 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  Speaking of donors...this news just came out of Columbus today...

Police Report:
http://toledobladedata.com/pdfs/zsmith.pdf

Also in the car at the time of arrest, a bottle of "Libido Max" Supplements...which further confirms my theory that most men who beat their wives/girlfriends can't get it up.

Further proving that this town is full of mindless O$U sycophants that will do anything to protect the school.

So, my memory of the legal process is a bit fuzzy, but don't the prosecutor and defense argue evidence, and then their plea agreement goes to the judge who usually agrees with the plea bargain? I don't think judges can reduce charges in the state of Ohio. Both the prosecutor and judge need to agree to reduced charges.

The prosecutor would be the one who let "Smith off easy," the judge only accepts the plea bargain.

My interpretation of the legal system could be way off though.

Another thing to consider is that McMurphy has every bit as much tied into this personally as any other player in the whole sordid saga. He's unemployed, and this is the story that's either going to propel him into a good job or make him a laughing stock. This is him swinging for the fences on his heels. That and given some of the sloppy reporting so far including having to walk back the accusation that Zach Smith was arrested for DV in 2015, I'm not sure he's the best horse to put your bet on if you're looking for someone to take down OSU.

Social media killed journalism. Where do we go from here?

(08-14-2018 08:19 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  Step back for a moment. For the first thing, Presidents Club is for academic donations, so the judge is not necessarily a backer of the AD/football program. He may very well be, but that's not where his donations are going. Secondly, how did these reductions coincide with Ohio sentencing guidelines for first time offenders. I had a friend get a DUI in Ohio and his sentence was reduced after he completed the 3 day anti-alcohol sleepover. Was Zach Smith's sentence reduction consistent with other first time offenders both with this judge and under standard sentencing guidelines or did they deviate significantly?

McMurphy is not a good reporter and journalism by twitter only makes that worse.

This is the key question. The fact that he got a reduced plea does not raise any eyebrows to me. There are courts I practice in where a reduced plea on a first time OVI is fairly standard practice, provided the facts aren't particularly bad (things like a high test, very uncooperative with the officers, caused an accident, could barely stand, etc). There are other courts I practice in where plea reductions on OVI are very rare. Frankly the judge has a ton of say one what pleas are allowed in his court room (something that is a pet peeve of mine because the judge should be neutral and if the state/defense work something out believing it is fair based on the facts a judge shouldn't have at that time, why should they refuse it?). Some judge choose to allow prosecutors to work out whatever pleas they want, some judges don't give plea reductions on certain types of charges or do so only in the rarest of circumstances. Without knowing more the fact that he received a plea reduction on a first OVI tells us very little.