Quote:Finland's government decided to try giving people money in hopes that it would encourage them to take a job.

According to Bloomberg, only 77 percent of people in Finland are employed, causing Finland to fall behind its neighbors.

Finland decided to try a universal basic income.

Universal basic income is an economic strategy where the government distributes cash directly to people with welfare needs.

Often, it is proposed as an alternative to welfare programs and as a potential solution should automation replace low skilled workers. Many democratic socialists, including Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, support the initiative.

Finland offered a small test group of 2,000 citizens 560 euros (around $650) per month. According to Bloomberg, this amount is not enough to cover most basic needs and almost all of it would likely go to rent.

The government had hoped that his supplemental income would streamline their multi-part welfare system. They currently have welfare programs for child care and housing, among other programs for working-aged people.

They also hoped that the program would encourage people to take part-time or low-wage jobs to boost employment numbers because the supplemental income would balance out.

Obviously, this did not work and employment remained low. Many conservatives took to Twitter to run a victory lap after watching this socialist policy fail:

Finland isn't alone in their failed attempt at boosting employment. According to Bloomberg, universal basic income programs in Alaska and Iran both failed to bolster employment numbers.

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Why buy the milk when you get the cow for free ?

If you paid me $650 a month for doing nothing, I would spend some time in a sauna as well.

Been several reports on Finland's so called experiment over the last year. The biggest failure about the experiment was that they only used people who were already unemployed for it. Then they allowed them to receive other social benefits on top of that. That's not what Universal Basic Income is designed to do. A UBI is designed to replace all other social benefits.

And then that's not enough and it spirals out of control.

(08-01-2018 03:58 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  Been several reports on Finland's so called experiment over the last year. The biggest failure about the experiment was that they only used people who were already unemployed for it. Then they allowed them to receive other social benefits on top of that. That's not what Universal Basic Income is designed to do. A UBI is designed to replace all other social benefits.

Which is why that won't work here. The FSA would go bonkers.

Government giving away free shat as motivation? Yeah that will work...

So the moral of the story is.....

When sit on ass pays just like work, people will choose the don't work option.

Gee, there's a shock.

(08-01-2018 07:33 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  So the moral of the story is.....

When sit on ass pays just like work, people will choose the don't work option.

Gee, there's a shock.

They won't work at sh1tty jobs for sh1tty pay, anyway. Nor should they.

(08-01-2018 08:09 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 07:33 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  So the moral of the story is.....

When sit on ass pays just like work, people will choose the don't work option.

Gee, there's a shock.

They won't work at sh1tty jobs for sh1tty pay, anyway. Nor should they.

Wow.
I've worked $hit jobs for $hit pay in the past because that was what I was qualified to do. Learned a lot even at the most craptastic job — show up on time, follow the rules, stay late if necessary, be respectful to my coworkers and superiors — and the most important lesson — work hard and get experience so I don't have to stay in the craptastic job my whole life.

Millennials = too light for heavy work and too heavy for light work.

(08-01-2018 08:09 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 07:33 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  So the moral of the story is.....

When sit on ass pays just like work, people will choose the don't work option.

Gee, there's a shock.

They won't work at sh1tty jobs for sh1tty pay, anyway. Nor should they.

You are kidding, right??

Generally, people with crappy jobs with crappy pay have them............because they've made life choices that put them where they are.

It really isn't that hard to rise above the bottom of the job market barrel if you do the right things. You know, like work hard, show up on time all the time, work extra if necessary and so on.....

(08-01-2018 08:09 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 07:33 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  So the moral of the story is.....

When sit on ass pays just like work, people will choose the don't work option.

Gee, there's a shock.

They won't work at sh1tty jobs for sh1tty pay, anyway. Nor should they.

No work should be below any person.

(08-01-2018 08:09 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 07:33 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  So the moral of the story is.....

When sit on ass pays just like work, people will choose the don't work option.

Gee, there's a shock.

They won't work at sh1tty jobs for sh1tty pay, anyway. Nor should they.

We'll put you on the side that supports 15 bucks an hour for flipping burgers then. When I retired I was making just north of 60 bucks an hour, it took me 40 years and a lot of training to reach that level and you want people who are just starting out at low skilled employment to make just at 25% of that?? I didn't have the benefit of a college education or rich parents and yet somehow I managed to beat the odds and make myself into a semi-successful individual and you wan't to tear that down? Eff off...

(08-02-2018 07:29 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 08:09 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 07:33 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  So the moral of the story is.....

When sit on ass pays just like work, people will choose the don't work option.

Gee, there's a shock.

They won't work at sh1tty jobs for sh1tty pay, anyway. Nor should they.

We'll put you on the side that supports 15 bucks an hour for flipping burgers then.

True story: When I started working for the company I work for now, we were just starting out. A small little place, but growing and it was only a matter of time before we grew into a major player in our local industry.

Anyway, in my first year there, the owner would have a different employee go around and change out the trash baskets in everyone's office, take the trash out, etc...

One week it was me, the next it was one of the division managers, the next it was the owner (YES, the millionaire owner), next it was the owners young son, etc...

You get the picture. I didn't mind doing it and in fact, it set a good example that nothing should be below someone else. I would NEVER allow someone else to clean my bathroom, for example. I dirtied it up. I better clean it. Same for my lawn. Same for washing and cleaning my car.

(08-01-2018 08:28 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 08:09 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 07:33 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  So the moral of the story is.....

When sit on ass pays just like work, people will choose the don't work option.

Gee, there's a shock.

They won't work at sh1tty jobs for sh1tty pay, anyway. Nor should they.

Wow.
I've worked $hit jobs for $hit pay in the past because that was what I was qualified to do. Learned a lot even at the most craptastic job — show up on time, follow the rules, stay late if necessary, be respectful to my coworkers and superiors — and the most important lesson — work hard and get experience so I don't have to stay in the craptastic job my whole life.

Millennials = too light for heavy work and too heavy for light work.

The only job that I ever quit early was as a non-union worker in a union shop. The union guys were cool with us all summer long, because we willingly performed the unpleasant tasks. Things changed the moment that we non-union guys started pulling down overtime at the end of the summer, in order to finish up jobs that had fallen behind. At that point, our union co-workers rewarded us with verbal abuse and semi-physical abuse (work materials thrown at us when our backs were turned).

Unions, among other ills, have a way of turning good people into not-so-good people.

(08-01-2018 08:09 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 07:33 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  So the moral of the story is.....

When sit on ass pays just like work, people will choose the don't work option.

Gee, there's a shock.

They won't work at sh1tty jobs for sh1tty pay, anyway. Nor should they.

So let me see if I understand you.....

They shouldn't work "sh!tty jobs for sh!tty pay" but sitting on their backsides leeching off the productive taxpayers is OK?

If someone's only qualified to work a "sh!tty job for sh!tty pay" then THAT'S the type of job they'll only be able to get.

Who's to blame for that?

(08-02-2018 07:44 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 08:28 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 08:09 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 07:33 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  So the moral of the story is.....

When sit on ass pays just like work, people will choose the don't work option.

Gee, there's a shock.

They won't work at sh1tty jobs for sh1tty pay, anyway. Nor should they.

Wow.
I've worked $hit jobs for $hit pay in the past because that was what I was qualified to do. Learned a lot even at the most craptastic job — show up on time, follow the rules, stay late if necessary, be respectful to my coworkers and superiors — and the most important lesson — work hard and get experience so I don't have to stay in the craptastic job my whole life.

Millennials = too light for heavy work and too heavy for light work.

The only job that I ever quit early was as a non-union worker in a union shop. The union guys were cool with us all summer long, because we willingly performed the unpleasant tasks. Things changed the moment that we non-union guys started pulling down overtime at the end of the summer, in order to finish up jobs that had fallen behind. At that point, our union co-workers rewarded us with verbal abuse and semi-physical abuse (work materials thrown at us when our backs were turned).

Unions, among other ills, have a way of turning good people into not-so-good people.

yup....if one has ever worked on a union site, they know this to be true....

when I'd go out to the shop floor, the stories our service guys would share made me hysterically belly laugh out loud.....

Unions were a good thing back in the 50's. But today ? They have become as corrupt as the corporations that they are supposed to represent their members interests against. In fact, they pretty much are corrupt corporations.

(08-02-2018 08:20 AM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  Unions were a good thing back in the 50's. But today ? They have become as corrupt as the corporations that they are supposed to represent their members interests against. In fact, they pretty much are corrupt corporations.

Even more important earlier than the 50's for things like safety, etc.

Today, with all the federal regulations, etc. That need has largely disappeared.

I have no issues with a union collectively bargaining for compensation and benefits. The problem comes in that once the contract is in place - what does the union now do for the next period of time?? What they do is all but ignore the good workers and spend all their time protecting the worst of it's members.

(08-01-2018 08:09 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  

(08-01-2018 07:33 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  So the moral of the story is.....

When sit on ass pays just like work, people will choose the don't work option.

Gee, there's a shock.

They won't work at sh1tty jobs for sh1tty pay, anyway. Nor should they.

So, they should sit on the couch and leach off everyone else instead?