(07-30-2018 11:47 AM)YNot Wrote:  The expanded AAC Olympic sports is workable. More on that below. The biggest roadblock is the conference championship format. With 14 or 16 teams in a nationwide conference, it's hard to rotate through the other division enough for others to care. With CCG deregulation, the AAC would have options to add western teams without looking like two separate conferences that happen to play a championship game.

Quote:Perhaps the new western members could all join the WCC for olympic sports. BYU is already there. Boise and SDSU are good geographical fits (less so cultural or institutional fits). But if the WCC could field a lineup that included Gonzaga, St Mary's, BYU, SDSU and Boise they would be a solid multibid basketball league.

In short, I don't think the AAC reaches its objectives through addition alone. They need some subtraction.

Create an AAC west division and include more Olympic sports members. For Olympic sports, the AAC could have three regional divisions - EAST, CENTRAL, WEST. For regular season Olympic sports, it would almost be like three smaller conferences that have a scheduling affiliation. But for branding and post-season it would be a strong, nationwide conference.

Olympic Sports Model:
EAST: UConn, Temple, ECU, USF, UCF, VCU, UMass
CENTRAL: Wichita, Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Memphis, Tulane, Cincinnati
WEST: Boise, BYU, SDSU, Air Force, UNLV/CSU, Gonzaga, St. Mary's/NMSU?

For bball = 12-4-4 scheduling format. Only two 2-game out-of-division road trips per year.
For many other sports that only play 8-10 or fewer conference games, you limit cross-country travel and focus on divisions. For lower sports' conference championships, you could even have divisional(regional) tournaments that feed into the conference tournament quarterfinals or semifinals.

FOOTBALL
EAST: UConn, Temple, ECU, USF, UCF, Army (fball only)
CENTRAL: Cincinnati, SMU, Houston, Memphis, Tulane, Navy (fball only)
WEST: Boise, BYU, SDSU, Air Force, Tulsa, UNLV/CSU

5 divisional games plus 3 intra-divisional games. Stack the schedules so that Army, Navy, and Air Force play annually and perhaps to give Tulsa more frequent games against SMU, Houston, and Memphis. Football inventory for Thursday and Friday nights and 12pm to 10pm ET kickoffs on Saturday. The conference would have teams in California, Texas, and Florida and 6 of the top-10 states. Best available brands across the country.

This format enables each division to have at least one or two contenders with nice and shiny win-loss records - good for the polls and the perception of the conference. The two with the nicest and shiniest records and highest rankings meet in the CCG.

I lean for UNLV over CSU because of the new Vegas stadium and likelihood to re-gain its form in basketball.

Go after the Cotton Bowl bid or elevate the new Las Vegas bowl as the spot for your champion as a de facto NY7 bowl game. Even if not formally part of the NY6, opt out of the Group of 5 and avoid its label perceptions. Still NY6 access through the at large berths. Worst case scenario is a marquee New Years/Eve bowl for your champion against a ranked opponent.

Any AAC expansion will make the AAC worse, not better, and will absolutely destroy any ambitions its better football programs have for being considered as peers or "near peers" of the current P5 conferences. If you are one of those top teams, you should consider breaking away for your own good.

Please define flagship?

Are we talking about a school that wins the football conference every year? Are we talking about the best athletic department across the board? Just the two revenue sports? Do we put attendance, TV ratings and academics into the mix? Brand strength?

I don't know what this term means honestly. Texas is supposedly the flagship of the Big 12 but when was the last time they won anything? Hell they have had sub .500 years. Michigan is apparently one of the flagships of the B10 but they haven't won their conference since 2004 and they aren't that far removed from 3-4 years of sub.500 records. Who is the flagship of the PAC--- USC and UCLA? They have been getting their clock cleaned by Oregon and Stanford for a while. Isn't Tobacco Road supposed to be the flagship of the ACC? Not in football.

(07-30-2018 02:28 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Please define flagship?

Are we talking about a school that wins the football conference every year? Are we talking about the best athletic department across the board? Just the two revenue sports? Do we put attendance, TV ratings and academics into the mix? Brand strength?

I don't know what this term means honestly. Texas is supposedly the flagship of the Big 12 but when was the last time they won anything? Hell they have had sub .500 years. Michigan is apparently one of the flagships of the B10 but they haven't won their conference since 2004 and they aren't that far removed from 3-4 years of sub.500 records. Who is the flagship of the PAC--- USC and UCLA? They have been getting their clock cleaned by Oregon and Stanford for a while. Isn't Tobacco Road supposed to be the flagship of the ACC? Not in football.

This is a great point. Flagships are built on attracting fans and eyeballs. The underlying premises of the OP and most of our responses is that dominating the conference would elevate a program to attract more fans and eyeballs because they would have reached a certain prestige threshold.

Correct

(07-29-2018 09:19 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(07-29-2018 09:04 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  The AAC is a conference with out a flagship school, it is a conference full of teams that were at one time in an A conference
Now that the AAC is swiftly becoming a strong and stable conference and even more so when an expected TV raise next year, it is unlikely to attract and existing flagship school
So this flagship school will have to come from within the AAC, this school or schools will have too be in the top 10 or 15 AP poll every year for many years and win a AP #1 a few times
Which schools are most likely to accomplish this flagship status:?

I think the problem with having 1 Flagship, is that the AAC will eat it's own in conference. There's too many good teams right now for 1 team to emerge every year and win the G5 NY6 spot. And that's what it would take for a Flagship to emerge; go to the NY6 most every year and win that game every time they play. Pretty much do what Boise and TCU did but even more so because even now they wouldn't be considered Flagship football programs at a P5 level. Boise can be considered a Flagship of the MWC but even that isn't good enough to get into a P5 unless Texas, Oklahoma and probably Kansas all leave the Big 12 and the remaining schools expand to 12 to 16 teams.

UCF and USF each had a great season last year. Houston, Temple and Memphis have had multiple great seasons in the last 5 years and Navy can win 10 games just about any given year. Then you have Cincy and ECU who have recent history of being great programs. Cincy even for an AQ BCS conference. That's 8 schools that could potentially be G5 NY6 candidates. It's going to be very hard for one team to emerge.

As a footnote, if Marshall were to go back to the MAC and perform like they did in the MAC previously, they'd have a better shot as emerging as a G5 power because of less competition and they've already done it once before.

This. Also, the problem that you get with "flagship"(lol) teams in mid-major conferences is that you can no longer argue that the conference is deep with good teams when one team keeps winning the thing. Boise is a great example. If other teams would challenge more often, the MWC wouldn't be as easily written off as a cupcake.

AAC football needs Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, USF, and UCF to be good to great every year plus UConn, ECU, and Navy to be bowl teams. Everyone else has serious fan base issues. If those eight schools stay strong the league is in solid shape.

(07-30-2018 08:36 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  MWC have also lost their head coaches to other conference. Some when they were in the WAC.

I can only speak for Houston but let's compare this terrible example........

(07-30-2018 08:36 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boise State lost several head coaches and they still keep on winning.

They haven't had a coach for less than 5 years since 2001. Over that same time we have had 6 head coaches and only one that was here for at least 5 years. Of the six 2 were fired, 3 went to P5 programs (Texas, A&M, and Baylor) and the last is still our coach. By comparison Boise has had 3..... two moved on to the P5 and their current coach (since 2014).

No school outside of the P5 has been picked clean on a regular basis like UH has been.

Coordinators and assistants come and go at all G5 and even P5 schools but we have had to start all over three times in the last 10 years thanks to the status quo.

(07-30-2018 04:16 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(07-30-2018 08:36 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  MWC have also lost their head coaches to other conference. Some when they were in the WAC.

I can only speak for Houston but let's compare this terrible example........

(07-30-2018 08:36 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boise State lost several head coaches and they still keep on winning.

They haven't had a coach for less than 5 years since 2001. Over that same time we have had 6 head coaches and only one that was here for at least 5 years. Of the six 2 were fired, 3 went to P5 programs (Texas, A&M, and Baylor) and the last is still our coach. By comparison Boise has had 3..... two moved on to the P5 and their current coach (since 2014).

No school outside of the P5 has been picked clean on a regular basis like UH has been.

Coordinators and assistants come and go at all G5 and even P5 schools but we have had to start all over three times in the last 10 years thanks to the status quo.

Houston have been up and down with wins and loses compare to Boise State which is reasons why some of your coaches have been fired. Problem with the MWC and BYU are that the P5 keeps picking apart those schools taken their head coaches. BYU fired Ty Detmer because of their losing. Even MAC schools lose their head coaches as well to the P5. The AAC is not the only ones that have lost head coaches. Colorado State, Fresno State and San Diego State are winning under new coaches. UNR will bounce back, and Wyoming is now on the rise after they plucked the NDSU's head coach.

(07-31-2018 04:32 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Houston have been up and down with wins and loses compare to Boise State which is reasons why some of your coaches have been fired. Problem with the MWC and BYU are that the P5 keeps picking apart those schools taken their head coaches.

That was my exact point! But Boise can't really make that claim. Of their three coaches since 2001 one left for Colorado, and one did go to Washington but from what I recall the move was heavily infuenced by the need for special medical care needed by his daughter that was easier to get in the Seattle area. Leaving their current coach.

So you have a coach that did indeed leave for a P5 gig (after 5 years on the job) and a guy who was putting his family's needs on lets say at least an equal footing to his career ambitions (who left after 8 years).

Our coach in 2001 was fired after that season but his recruiting laid the foundation for our current success.

Levine was just waaay over his head and most of our fans didn't think it was a good hire at the time. That said he recruited well and laid the foundation for Herman and his run to Texas.

That's 2 of 6 coaches in the last 17 seasons..... do the math that's an average of 2.8 seasons per.

Your missing the point. Stability breeds success. Boise has had it and benefited from it but they have plateaued.

We have been forced to rebuild coaches, recruiting, etc every 3 years and only 33% was by our choosing.

(07-31-2018 04:32 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Even MAC schools lose their head coaches as well to the P5.

LOL, if they approach the regularity that AAC schools do (and my point UH especially) then we can talk. One or two coaches every couple of decades league wide isn't a trend.

(07-31-2018 04:32 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  The AAC is not the only ones that have lost head coaches. Colorado State, Fresno State and San Diego State are winning under new coaches. UNR will bounce back, and Wyoming is now on the rise after they plucked the NDSU's head coach.

Oh there is no denying that. Every G5 is looking over their shoulder and even some of the P5. My point was specific to UH and you won't find another schools snake bit by HC's jumping ship to bigtime P5's like we have had to endure.

(07-31-2018 08:54 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(07-31-2018 04:32 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Houston have been up and down with wins and loses compare to Boise State which is reasons why some of your coaches have been fired. Problem with the MWC and BYU are that the P5 keeps picking apart those schools taken their head coaches.

That was my exact point! But Boise can't really make that claim. Of their three coaches since 2001 one left for Colorado, and one did go to Washington but from what I recall the move was heavily infuenced by the need for special medical care needed by his daughter that was easier to get in the Seattle area. Leaving their current coach.

So you have a coach that did indeed leave for a P5 gig (after 5 years on the job) and a guy who was putting his family's needs on lets say at least an equal footing to his career ambitions (who left after 8 years).

Our coach in 2001 was fired after that season but his recruiting laid the foundation for our current success.

Levine was just waaay over his head and most of our fans didn't think it was a good hire at the time. That said he recruited well and laid the foundation for Herman and his run to Texas.

That's 2 of 6 coaches in the last 17 seasons..... do the math that's an average of 2.8 seasons per.

Your missing the point. Stability breeds success. Boise has had it and benefited from it but they have plateaued.

We have been forced to rebuild coaches, recruiting, etc every 3 years and only 33% was by our choosing.

(07-31-2018 04:32 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Even MAC schools lose their head coaches as well to the P5.

LOL, if they approach the regularity that AAC schools do (and my point UH especially) then we can talk. One or two coaches every couple of decades league wide isn't a trend.

(07-31-2018 04:32 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  The AAC is not the only ones that have lost head coaches. Colorado State, Fresno State and San Diego State are winning under new coaches. UNR will bounce back, and Wyoming is now on the rise after they plucked the NDSU's head coach.

Oh there is no denying that. Every G5 is looking over their shoulder and even some of the P5. My point was specific to UH and you won't find another schools snake bit by HC's jumping ship to bigtime P5's like we have had to endure.

Maybe Northern Illinois comes close. Id it that they are now on their 4th or 5th head coach in 10 years? They win? Boom, they lose their head coach, and the next head coach wins up getting pluck not too long after they win a lot of games.

(07-31-2018 09:52 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Maybe Northern Illinois comes close. Id it that they are now on their 4th or 5th head coach in 10 years? They win? Boom, they lose their head coach, and the next head coach wins up getting pluck not too long after they win a lot of games.

As for UNI one coach retired (after 12 years on the job), one coach went to Minnesota, after three years so this is a comparable move, the next coach flipped to NC State after 2 years (another similar move), and finally their current coach going into his 8th season.

So yeah I would say it comes very close but the program has bookend long term coaches (12 and 8 years). The period between 2008-2012 was a very unstable time for their program.

(07-31-2018 10:22 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(07-31-2018 09:52 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Maybe Northern Illinois comes close. Id it that they are now on their 4th or 5th head coach in 10 years? They win? Boom, they lose their head coach, and the next head coach wins up getting pluck not too long after they win a lot of games.

As for UNI one coach retired (after 12 years on the job), one coach went to Minnesota, after three years so this is a comparable move, the next coach flipped to NC State after 2 years (another similar move), and finally their current coach going into his 8th season.

So yeah I would say it comes very close but the program has bookend long term coaches (12 and 8 years). The period between 2008-2012 was a very unstable time for their program.

Yet during that time, their football program was trending steadily up, and since then it's trending down. It was during their two most stable times that they performed at their worst, which isn't what you normally expect to see.

(07-31-2018 10:45 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(07-31-2018 10:22 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(07-31-2018 09:52 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Maybe Northern Illinois comes close. Id it that they are now on their 4th or 5th head coach in 10 years? They win? Boom, they lose their head coach, and the next head coach wins up getting pluck not too long after they win a lot of games.

As for UNI one coach retired (after 12 years on the job), one coach went to Minnesota, after three years so this is a comparable move, the next coach flipped to NC State after 2 years (another similar move), and finally their current coach going into his 8th season.

So yeah I would say it comes very close but the program has bookend long term coaches (12 and 8 years). The period between 2008-2012 was a very unstable time for their program.

Yet during that time, their football program was trending steadily up, and since then it's trending down. It was during their two most stable times that they performed at their worst, which isn't what you normally expect to see.

Yes indeed, they went 46-21 (.687) and we have gone 79-37 (.681) over what I consider our period of instability when Briles left at the end of the 2007 season up to Applewhites hire.

The comparison to UNI does seem to be a fair one though I would get more into the details on where we differ but that doesn't really seem relevant in this discussion. A lot of it gets into opinion over fact (level of competition, where the HC's went to, etc)