WV has a good team this year with a very good QB. If he stays healthy, they could be fighting for the championship this year.

The ACC’s problem with WVU has nothing to do with academics, academics is the convenient excuse when you’re looking for a reason to say no. The ACC’s problem with WVU has nothing to do with football. The Mountaineer program stands on its own and WVU has the type of support the league can certainly use.

The ACC’s problem with WVU is WVU fans. No one in The ACC wants to travel there. Since leaving The Big East for The Big 12, WVU hasn’t hosted an ACC team. One would think that after 21 years in The Big East that at least one program that they played regularly during that time would have agreed to play out of conference in Morgantown. That hasn’t happened.

WVU is a great program. Unfortunately the fans in Morgantown make taking the Mountaineers into The ACC impossible.
CJ

(08-29-2018 08:29 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The ACC’s problem with WVU has nothing to do with academics, academics is the convenient excuse when you’re looking for a reason to say no. The ACC’s problem with WVU has nothing to do with football. The Mountaineer program stands on its own and WVU has the type of support the league can certainly use.

The ACC’s problem with WVU is WVU fans. No one in The ACC wants to travel there. Since leaving The Big East for The Big 12, WVU hasn’t hosted an ACC team. One would think that after 21 years in The Big East that at least one program that they played regularly during that time would have agreed to play out of conference in Morgantown. That hasn’t happened.

WVU is a great program. Unfortunately the fans in Morgantown make taking the Mountaineers into The ACC impossible.
CJ

And in this case, alcohol sales at the stadium there doesn't help an already difficult issue, but rather exacerbates it.

(08-29-2018 09:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 08:29 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The ACC’s problem with WVU has nothing to do with academics, academics is the convenient excuse when you’re looking for a reason to say no. The ACC’s problem with WVU has nothing to do with football. The Mountaineer program stands on its own and WVU has the type of support the league can certainly use.

The ACC’s problem with WVU is WVU fans. No one in The ACC wants to travel there. Since leaving The Big East for The Big 12, WVU hasn’t hosted an ACC team. One would think that after 21 years in The Big East that at least one program that they played regularly during that time would have agreed to play out of conference in Morgantown. That hasn’t happened.

WVU is a great program. Unfortunately the fans in Morgantown make taking the Mountaineers into The ACC impossible.
CJ

And in this case, alcohol sales at the stadium there doesn't help an already difficult issue, but rather exacerbates it.

When LSU fans complained about the WVU fans, I KNEW there was a problem...

(08-29-2018 05:40 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 05:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 05:02 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 07:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-26-2018 06:41 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  West Virginia is the only former Big East 2.0 school that has been consistently relevant in football.

I'd say that WVU was highly relevant in football while in the Big East. Since joining the Big 12, their relevance has declined significantly, arguably dramatically. They are just a run of the mill football program these days.

As for markets, yes, WVU does have a presence in the Virginia side of the DC area, lots of WVU alumni head to the DC area to work. Problem is, VT and UVA have that same presence, so from an ACC point of view, WVU isn't needed for that.

They’re still more relevant nationally than Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and Louisville, the schools that got their golden ticket out of the Big East.

Um, and I might add got their golden tickets because of a pay model that won't exist in the future. West Virginia is a better content addition than any of the other schools. The couch burning only adds to the spectacle.

Pitt and Rutgers are not content additions. Louisville and Syracuse are more so in hoops. Pitt hoops runs in spurts. But of those only Louisville has maintained any content value in football. West Virginia right now is on top of their game in being competitive in multiple sports.

That said I agree they were probably a better brand while still in the Old Big East. While they have become more diverse in their competitiveness in the Big 12 they are kind of lost with being relevant to the Big 12 because of their outlier status. The first two years the games were novel. Not so much anymore.

They’re in a more competitive conference. Holgresen might have been able to win at least 5-6 Big East games and be a contender for a BE title every year. Not so in the Big XII. Kansas has been the only automatic win while the other 8 conference games are a battle. They haven’t miss a beat in basketball although the Big East of 2005-13 was the best basketball league ever assembled.

Ultimately, it's irrelevant to compare WVU in the old Big East versus WVU in the current Big 12. Their choice was to be in what is now the AAC or join the Big 12, and they'd choose the latter 1000 times out of 1000. It doesn't matter how good the old Big East was for WVU because that option was extinguished for reasons outside of their control.

(08-30-2018 09:47 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 05:40 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 05:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 05:02 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 07:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I'd say that WVU was highly relevant in football while in the Big East. Since joining the Big 12, their relevance has declined significantly, arguably dramatically. They are just a run of the mill football program these days.

As for markets, yes, WVU does have a presence in the Virginia side of the DC area, lots of WVU alumni head to the DC area to work. Problem is, VT and UVA have that same presence, so from an ACC point of view, WVU isn't needed for that.

They’re still more relevant nationally than Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and Louisville, the schools that got their golden ticket out of the Big East.

Um, and I might add got their golden tickets because of a pay model that won't exist in the future. West Virginia is a better content addition than any of the other schools. The couch burning only adds to the spectacle.

Pitt and Rutgers are not content additions. Louisville and Syracuse are more so in hoops. Pitt hoops runs in spurts. But of those only Louisville has maintained any content value in football. West Virginia right now is on top of their game in being competitive in multiple sports.

That said I agree they were probably a better brand while still in the Old Big East. While they have become more diverse in their competitiveness in the Big 12 they are kind of lost with being relevant to the Big 12 because of their outlier status. The first two years the games were novel. Not so much anymore.

They’re in a more competitive conference. Holgresen might have been able to win at least 5-6 Big East games and be a contender for a BE title every year. Not so in the Big XII. Kansas has been the only automatic win while the other 8 conference games are a battle. They haven’t miss a beat in basketball although the Big East of 2005-13 was the best basketball league ever assembled.

Ultimately, it's irrelevant to compare WVU in the old Big East versus WVU in the current Big 12. Their choice was to be in what is now the AAC or join the Big 12, and they'd choose the latter 1000 times out of 1000. It doesn't matter how good the old Big East was for WVU because that option was extinguished for reasons outside of their control.

Everybody agrees with you and nobody is questioning why they’re in the Big XII. They had to make the decision or face the fate of UConn, Cincinnati and South Florida. However, some posters were arguing they’re not as competitive as they were in the Big East. The reason is obvious. They have better competition.

(08-29-2018 05:02 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 07:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-26-2018 06:41 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  West Virginia is the only former Big East 2.0 school that has been consistently relevant in football.

I'd say that WVU was highly relevant in football while in the Big East. Since joining the Big 12, their relevance has declined significantly, arguably dramatically. They are just a run of the mill football program these days.

As for markets, yes, WVU does have a presence in the Virginia side of the DC area, lots of WVU alumni head to the DC area to work. Problem is, VT and UVA have that same presence, so from an ACC point of view, WVU isn't needed for that.

They’re still more relevant nationally than Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and Louisville, the schools that got their golden ticket out of the Big East.

More relevant now than Louisville? No. Pitt? Maybe. Cuse and Rutgers, sure.

But as you know, relevance in terms of wins on the field has little to do with golden tickets, and plus, WVU got a golden ticket themselves. Their ticket is more golden than the schools that went to the ACC, only Rutgers is doing better in terms of conference money.

(08-30-2018 11:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 05:02 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 07:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-26-2018 06:41 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  West Virginia is the only former Big East 2.0 school that has been consistently relevant in football.

I'd say that WVU was highly relevant in football while in the Big East. Since joining the Big 12, their relevance has declined significantly, arguably dramatically. They are just a run of the mill football program these days.

As for markets, yes, WVU does have a presence in the Virginia side of the DC area, lots of WVU alumni head to the DC area to work. Problem is, VT and UVA have that same presence, so from an ACC point of view, WVU isn't needed for that.

They’re still more relevant nationally than Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and Louisville, the schools that got their golden ticket out of the Big East.

More relevant now than Louisville? No. Pitt? Maybe. Cuse and Rutgers, sure.

But as you know, relevance in terms of wins on the field has little to do with golden tickets, and plus, WVU got a golden ticket themselves. Their ticket is more golden than the schools that went to the ACC, only Rutgers is doing better in terms of conference money.

Sometimes I wonder if Rutgers got into the Big 10 because they do know where Jimmy Hoffa is buried and it was big money donors to the Big 10 from Chicago and Detroit that ordered the hit.

(08-30-2018 11:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 05:02 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 07:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-26-2018 06:41 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  West Virginia is the only former Big East 2.0 school that has been consistently relevant in football.

I'd say that WVU was highly relevant in football while in the Big East. Since joining the Big 12, their relevance has declined significantly, arguably dramatically. They are just a run of the mill football program these days.

As for markets, yes, WVU does have a presence in the Virginia side of the DC area, lots of WVU alumni head to the DC area to work. Problem is, VT and UVA have that same presence, so from an ACC point of view, WVU isn't needed for that.

They’re still more relevant nationally than Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and Louisville, the schools that got their golden ticket out of the Big East.

More relevant now than Louisville? No. Pitt? Maybe. Cuse and Rutgers, sure.

But as you know, relevance in terms of wins on the field has little to do with golden tickets, and plus, WVU got a golden ticket themselves. Their ticket is more golden than the schools that went to the ACC, only Rutgers is doing better in terms of conference money.

Actually, that's not true. At least not yet. They are substantially behind those other schools because of the phased-in distributions of the Big 10. The ACC schools got full shares immediately. WVU's phased in much more quickly.

For instance, compare:

Rutgers' conference revenue (5 year conference net $44.6m)
2012-13 Big East $10.6m (actual)
2013-14 American $8.3m (actual)
2014 American exit fee -$11.5m (source)
2014-15 Big Ten $10.4m (actual)
2015-16 Big Ten $10.7m (actual)
2016-17 Big Ten $16.1m* (actual)
------
2017-18 Big Ten $24.6m* (RU projection)
2018-19 Big Ten $27.1m* (RU projection)
2019-20 Big Ten $29.4m* (RU projection)

*includes advance on future share distribution for FY2017-20 (~$3.5m of the $16.1m for FY17 is an advance)

Pitt's conference revenue (5 year conference net $96.5m)
2012-13: Big East $10.2m (actual)
2013 Big East exit fee -$7.5m (source)
2013-14: ACC $18.9m (actual)
2014-15: ACC $25.0m (actual)
2015-16: ACC $23.6m (actual)
2016-17: ACC $26.3m (actual)
------
2017-18: no published projections available (projected to increase)

Syracuse's conference revenue (5 year conference net $95.6m)
2012-13: Big East $11.9m (actual)
2013 Big East exit fee -$7.5m (source)
2013-14: ACC $19.2m (actual)
2014-15: ACC $24.0m (actual)
2015-16: ACC $22.7m (actual)
2016-17: ACC $25.3m (actual)
------
2017-18: no published projections available (projected to increase)

WVU's conference revenue (5 year conference net $85.2m)
2012 Big East exit fee -$20m (source)
2012-13: Big12 $8.8m (actual)
2013-14: Big12 $14.2m (actual)
2014-15: Big12 $20.3m (actual)
2015-16: Big12 $28.0m (actual)
2016-17: Big12 $33.9m (actual)
-----
2017-18: no published projections available

When factoring in exit fees paid by all the schools, in the last 5 year block, which includes the first year of WVU being in the B12 and the last time Rutgers and Pitt were both members of the same conference, Rutgers is behind nearly $52m in net conference revenue to Pitt & Syracuse, and $41m to WVU. That isn't considering that now a portion of the money Rutgers is getting is actually being fronted from future payouts from the Big Ten. This also speaks nothing to their atrocious debt service.

(08-30-2018 11:53 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(08-30-2018 11:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 05:02 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 07:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-26-2018 06:41 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  West Virginia is the only former Big East 2.0 school that has been consistently relevant in football.

I'd say that WVU was highly relevant in football while in the Big East. Since joining the Big 12, their relevance has declined significantly, arguably dramatically. They are just a run of the mill football program these days.

As for markets, yes, WVU does have a presence in the Virginia side of the DC area, lots of WVU alumni head to the DC area to work. Problem is, VT and UVA have that same presence, so from an ACC point of view, WVU isn't needed for that.

They’re still more relevant nationally than Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and Louisville, the schools that got their golden ticket out of the Big East.

More relevant now than Louisville? No. Pitt? Maybe. Cuse and Rutgers, sure.

But as you know, relevance in terms of wins on the field has little to do with golden tickets, and plus, WVU got a golden ticket themselves. Their ticket is more golden than the schools that went to the ACC, only Rutgers is doing better in terms of conference money.

Actually, that's not true. At least not yet. They are substantially behind those other schools because of the phased-in distributions of the Big 10. The ACC schools got full shares immediately. WVU's phased in much more quickly.

For instance, compare:

Rutgers' conference revenue (5 year conference net $44.6m)
2012-13 Big East $10.6m (actual)
2013-14 American $8.3m (actual)
2014 American exit fee -$11.5m (source)
2014-15 Big Ten $10.4m (actual)
2015-16 Big Ten $10.7m (actual)
2016-17 Big Ten $16.1m* (actual)
------
2017-18 Big Ten $24.6m* (RU projection)
2018-19 Big Ten $27.1m* (RU projection)
2019-20 Big Ten $29.4m* (RU projection)

*includes advance on future share distribution for FY2017-20 (~$3.5m of the $16.1m for FY17 is an advance)

Pitt's conference revenue (5 year conference net $96.5m)
2012-13: Big East $10.2m (actual)
2013 Big East exit fee -$7.5m (source)
2013-14: ACC $18.9m (actual)
2014-15: ACC $25.0m (actual)
2015-16: ACC $23.6m (actual)
2016-17: ACC $26.3m (actual)
------
2017-18: no published projections available (projected to increase)

Syracuse's conference revenue (5 year conference net $95.6m)
2012-13: Big East $11.9m (actual)
2013 Big East exit fee -$7.5m (source)
2013-14: ACC $19.2m (actual
2014-15: ACC $24.0m (actual
2015-16: ACC $22.7m (actual)
2016-17: ACC $25.3m (actual)
------
2017-18: no published projections available (projected to increase)

WVU's conference revenue (5 year conference net $85.2m)
2012 Big East exit fee -$20m (source)
2012-13: Big12 $8.8m (actual)
2013-14: Big12 $14.2m (actual)
2014-15: Big12 $20.3m (actual)
2015-16: Big12 $28.0m (actual)
2016-17: Big12 $33.9m (actual)
-----
2017-18: no published projections available

When factoring in exit fees paid by all the schools, in the last 5 year block, which includes the first year of WVU being in the B12 and the last time Rutgers and Pitt were both members of the same conference, Rutgers is behind nearly $52m in net conference revenue to Pitt, and $41m to WVU. That isn't considering that now a portion of the money Rutgers is getting is actually being fronted from future payouts from the Big Ten. This also speaks nothing to their atrocious debt service.

Even with the phased payouts/buy in to the BTN, it's still a choice that would be made 100 times out of 100 and will eventually be worthwhile.

The Debt Service is interesting -- a good deal of that goes to the stadium expansion. If we hadn't expanded the stadium, we'd probably be in the American at this point.

(08-30-2018 11:53 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(08-30-2018 11:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 05:02 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 07:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-26-2018 06:41 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  West Virginia is the only former Big East 2.0 school that has been consistently relevant in football.

I'd say that WVU was highly relevant in football while in the Big East. Since joining the Big 12, their relevance has declined significantly, arguably dramatically. They are just a run of the mill football program these days.

As for markets, yes, WVU does have a presence in the Virginia side of the DC area, lots of WVU alumni head to the DC area to work. Problem is, VT and UVA have that same presence, so from an ACC point of view, WVU isn't needed for that.

They’re still more relevant nationally than Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and Louisville, the schools that got their golden ticket out of the Big East.

More relevant now than Louisville? No. Pitt? Maybe. Cuse and Rutgers, sure.

But as you know, relevance in terms of wins on the field has little to do with golden tickets, and plus, WVU got a golden ticket themselves. Their ticket is more golden than the schools that went to the ACC, only Rutgers is doing better in terms of conference money.

Actually, that's not true. At least not yet. They are substantially behind those other schools because of the phased-in distributions of the Big 10. The ACC schools got full shares immediately. WVU's phased in much more quickly.

For instance, compare:

Rutgers' conference revenue (5 year conference net $44.6m)
2012-13 Big East $10.6m (actual)
2013-14 American $8.3m (actual)
2014 American exit fee -$11.5m (source)
2014-15 Big Ten $10.4m (actual)
2015-16 Big Ten $10.7m (actual)
2016-17 Big Ten $16.1m* (actual)
------
2017-18 Big Ten $24.6m* (RU projection)
2018-19 Big Ten $27.1m* (RU projection)
2019-20 Big Ten $29.4m* (RU projection)

*includes advance on future share distribution for FY2017-20 (~$3.5m of the $16.1m for FY17 is an advance)

Pitt's conference revenue (5 year conference net $96.5m)
2012-13: Big East $10.2m (actual)
2013 Big East exit fee -$7.5m (source)
2013-14: ACC $18.9m (actual)
2014-15: ACC $25.0m (actual)
2015-16: ACC $23.6m (actual)
2016-17: ACC $26.3m (actual)
------
2017-18: no published projections available (projected to increase)

Syracuse's conference revenue (5 year conference net $95.6m)
2012-13: Big East $11.9m (actual)
2013 Big East exit fee -$7.5m (source)
2013-14: ACC $19.2m (actual)
2014-15: ACC $24.0m (actual)
2015-16: ACC $22.7m (actual)
2016-17: ACC $25.3m (actual)
------
2017-18: no published projections available (projected to increase)

WVU's conference revenue (5 year conference net $85.2m)
2012 Big East exit fee -$20m (source)
2012-13: Big12 $8.8m (actual)
2013-14: Big12 $14.2m (actual)
2014-15: Big12 $20.3m (actual)
2015-16: Big12 $28.0m (actual)
2016-17: Big12 $33.9m (actual)
-----
2017-18: no published projections available

When factoring in exit fees paid by all the schools, in the last 5 year block, which includes the first year of WVU being in the B12 and the last time Rutgers and Pitt were both members of the same conference, Rutgers is behind nearly $52m in net conference revenue to Pitt & Syracuse, and $41m to WVU. That isn't considering that now a portion of the money Rutgers is getting is actually being fronted from future payouts from the Big Ten. This also speaks nothing to their atrocious debt service.

And I'll just leave this here:


Maryland's conference revenue (5 year conference net $90.4m, not including loans)
2012-13: ACC $16.8m (actual)
2013-14: ACC $18.0m (actual)
2014 ACC exit fee -$31.4m (source)
2014-15 Big Ten $24.1m not including $11.6m loan (actual)
2015-16 Big Ten $25.6m not including $11.6m loan (actual)
2016-17 Big Ten $37.3m* (actual)

*unknown if loans continued

ACC per team averages
2014-15: $24.0m (approx adjusted to remove exit fee distribution)
2015-16: $23.8m
2016-17: $26.6m

Difference in Maryland's project net conference revenue if they didn't move and actual revenue (not including loans): -$19m

2012 Big Ten projection to Maryland ($32m in 2014-15, $43m in 2017, source)

(08-30-2018 04:23 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(08-30-2018 11:53 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(08-30-2018 11:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 05:02 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 07:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I'd say that WVU was highly relevant in football while in the Big East. Since joining the Big 12, their relevance has declined significantly, arguably dramatically. They are just a run of the mill football program these days.

As for markets, yes, WVU does have a presence in the Virginia side of the DC area, lots of WVU alumni head to the DC area to work. Problem is, VT and UVA have that same presence, so from an ACC point of view, WVU isn't needed for that.

They’re still more relevant nationally than Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and Louisville, the schools that got their golden ticket out of the Big East.

More relevant now than Louisville? No. Pitt? Maybe. Cuse and Rutgers, sure.

But as you know, relevance in terms of wins on the field has little to do with golden tickets, and plus, WVU got a golden ticket themselves. Their ticket is more golden than the schools that went to the ACC, only Rutgers is doing better in terms of conference money.

Actually, that's not true. At least not yet. They are substantially behind those other schools because of the phased-in distributions of the Big 10. The ACC schools got full shares immediately. WVU's phased in much more quickly.

For instance, compare:

Rutgers' conference revenue (5 year conference net $44.6m)
2012-13 Big East $10.6m (actual)
2013-14 American $8.3m (actual)
2014 American exit fee -$11.5m (source)
2014-15 Big Ten $10.4m (actual)
2015-16 Big Ten $10.7m (actual)
2016-17 Big Ten $16.1m* (actual)
------
2017-18 Big Ten $24.6m* (RU projection)
2018-19 Big Ten $27.1m* (RU projection)
2019-20 Big Ten $29.4m* (RU projection)

*includes advance on future share distribution for FY2017-20 (~$3.5m of the $16.1m for FY17 is an advance)

Pitt's conference revenue (5 year conference net $96.5m)
2012-13: Big East $10.2m (actual)
2013 Big East exit fee -$7.5m (source)
2013-14: ACC $18.9m (actual)
2014-15: ACC $25.0m (actual)
2015-16: ACC $23.6m (actual)
2016-17: ACC $26.3m (actual)
------
2017-18: no published projections available (projected to increase)

Syracuse's conference revenue (5 year conference net $95.6m)
2012-13: Big East $11.9m (actual)
2013 Big East exit fee -$7.5m (source)
2013-14: ACC $19.2m (actual)
2014-15: ACC $24.0m (actual)
2015-16: ACC $22.7m (actual)
2016-17: ACC $25.3m (actual)
------
2017-18: no published projections available (projected to increase)

WVU's conference revenue (5 year conference net $85.2m)
2012 Big East exit fee -$20m (source)
2012-13: Big12 $8.8m (actual)
2013-14: Big12 $14.2m (actual)
2014-15: Big12 $20.3m (actual)
2015-16: Big12 $28.0m (actual)
2016-17: Big12 $33.9m (actual)
-----
2017-18: no published projections available

When factoring in exit fees paid by all the schools, in the last 5 year block, which includes the first year of WVU being in the B12 and the last time Rutgers and Pitt were both members of the same conference, Rutgers is behind nearly $52m in net conference revenue to Pitt & Syracuse, and $41m to WVU. That isn't considering that now a portion of the money Rutgers is getting is actually being fronted from future payouts from the Big Ten. This also speaks nothing to their atrocious debt service.

And I'll just leave this here:


Maryland's conference revenue (5 year conference net $90.4m, not including loans)
2012-13: ACC $16.8m (actual)
2013-14: ACC $18.0m (actual)
2014 ACC exit fee -$31.4m (source)
2014-15 Big Ten $24.1m not including $11.6m loan (actual)
2015-16 Big Ten $25.6m not including $11.6m loan (actual)
2016-17 Big Ten $37.3m* (actual)

*unknown if loans continued

ACC per team averages
2014-15: $24.0m (approx adjusted to remove exit fee distribution)
2015-16: $23.8m
2016-17: $26.6m

Difference in Maryland's project net conference revenue if they didn't move and actual revenue (not including loans): -$19m

2012 Big Ten projection to Maryland ($32m in 2014-15, $43m in 2017, source)

Money is not why Maryland moved. Money was made the excuse. In the ACC MD was generating revenue at 70% of the conference leader FSU - 51 Million in 2008 to FSU's 73 Million. Today their real income is $80 Million because about $14 million is an gift/loan/from the University. Now they are at 43% of the conference leaders OSU and Michigan. The price for grossing an extra $10 million a year is being $100 million a year behind two schools in their DIVISION, and about $70 million behind PSU.


Gross and net are not the same thing. You can gross a **** ton of money, but net far less. Maryland is like the person who trades up in a housing market and goes from being in the economic middle of the neighborhood to the bottom and never being able to keep up with the more affluent neighbors landscaping or renovations.

I love how College sports fans measure money instead of records. Something you never see in pro sports.

The closest thing I have seen is Dallas Cowboys fans bragging about being the most valuable franchise in the world and even then, we don’t say things like “our revenue is bigger than yours.”

(08-30-2018 07:30 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(08-30-2018 04:23 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(08-30-2018 11:53 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(08-30-2018 11:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-29-2018 05:02 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  They’re still more relevant nationally than Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and Louisville, the schools that got their golden ticket out of the Big East.

More relevant now than Louisville? No. Pitt? Maybe. Cuse and Rutgers, sure.

But as you know, relevance in terms of wins on the field has little to do with golden tickets, and plus, WVU got a golden ticket themselves. Their ticket is more golden than the schools that went to the ACC, only Rutgers is doing better in terms of conference money.

Actually, that's not true. At least not yet. They are substantially behind those other schools because of the phased-in distributions of the Big 10. The ACC schools got full shares immediately. WVU's phased in much more quickly.

For instance, compare:

Rutgers' conference revenue (5 year conference net $44.6m)
2012-13 Big East $10.6m (actual)
2013-14 American $8.3m (actual)
2014 American exit fee -$11.5m (source)
2014-15 Big Ten $10.4m (actual)
2015-16 Big Ten $10.7m (actual)
2016-17 Big Ten $16.1m* (actual)
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2017-18 Big Ten $24.6m* (RU projection)
2018-19 Big Ten $27.1m* (RU projection)
2019-20 Big Ten $29.4m* (RU projection)

*includes advance on future share distribution for FY2017-20 (~$3.5m of the $16.1m for FY17 is an advance)

Pitt's conference revenue (5 year conference net $96.5m)
2012-13: Big East $10.2m (actual)
2013 Big East exit fee -$7.5m (source)
2013-14: ACC $18.9m (actual)
2014-15: ACC $25.0m (actual)
2015-16: ACC $23.6m (actual)
2016-17: ACC $26.3m (actual)
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2017-18: no published projections available (projected to increase)

Syracuse's conference revenue (5 year conference net $95.6m)
2012-13: Big East $11.9m (actual)
2013 Big East exit fee -$7.5m (source)
2013-14: ACC $19.2m (actual)
2014-15: ACC $24.0m (actual)
2015-16: ACC $22.7m (actual)
2016-17: ACC $25.3m (actual)
------
2017-18: no published projections available (projected to increase)

WVU's conference revenue (5 year conference net $85.2m)
2012 Big East exit fee -$20m (source)
2012-13: Big12 $8.8m (actual)
2013-14: Big12 $14.2m (actual)
2014-15: Big12 $20.3m (actual)
2015-16: Big12 $28.0m (actual)
2016-17: Big12 $33.9m (actual)
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2017-18: no published projections available

When factoring in exit fees paid by all the schools, in the last 5 year block, which includes the first year of WVU being in the B12 and the last time Rutgers and Pitt were both members of the same conference, Rutgers is behind nearly $52m in net conference revenue to Pitt & Syracuse, and $41m to WVU. That isn't considering that now a portion of the money Rutgers is getting is actually being fronted from future payouts from the Big Ten. This also speaks nothing to their atrocious debt service.

And I'll just leave this here:


Maryland's conference revenue (5 year conference net $90.4m, not including loans)
2012-13: ACC $16.8m (actual)
2013-14: ACC $18.0m (actual)
2014 ACC exit fee -$31.4m (source)
2014-15 Big Ten $24.1m not including $11.6m loan (actual)
2015-16 Big Ten $25.6m not including $11.6m loan (actual)
2016-17 Big Ten $37.3m* (actual)

*unknown if loans continued

ACC per team averages
2014-15: $24.0m (approx adjusted to remove exit fee distribution)
2015-16: $23.8m
2016-17: $26.6m

Difference in Maryland's project net conference revenue if they didn't move and actual revenue (not including loans): -$19m

2012 Big Ten projection to Maryland ($32m in 2014-15, $43m in 2017, source)

Money is not why Maryland moved. Money was made the excuse. In the ACC MD was generating revenue at 70% of the conference leader FSU - 51 Million in 2008 to FSU's 73 Million. Today their real income is $80 Million because about $14 million is an gift/loan/from the University. Now they are at 43% of the conference leaders OSU and Michigan. The price for grossing an extra $10 million a year is being $100 million a year behind two schools in their DIVISION, and about $70 million behind PSU.


Gross and net are not the same thing. You can gross a **** ton of money, but net far less. Maryland is like the person who trades up in a housing market and goes from being in the economic middle of the neighborhood to the bottom and never being able to keep up with the more affluent neighbors landscaping or renovations.

Sorry, but gross is the better measure in college sports. You make what you make, whether you are a private schools and measure your expenditures to leave some reserve, or a state school afraid unspent revenue will lead to budget cuts, is why NET is less relevant. I do agree however that subsidies should be subtracted from Gross Revenue.

(08-30-2018 07:39 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  I love how College sports fans measure money instead of records. Something you never see in pro sports.

The closest thing I have seen is Dallas Cowboys fans bragging about being the most valuable franchise in the world and even then, we don’t say things like “our revenue is bigger than yours.”

The money is only important to realignment. Everything else is a matter of coaching and competition. In realignment however more is supposed to equal better facilities and an easier time recruiting.

Maybe there are some recruits persuaded by it, or maybe they perform better because of all of the unofficial assistant coaches who have less players to manage and more time to actually spend with each. But mostly the schools that are at their zenith are in top notch recruiting areas and the also rans are not.

But then the # of NFL draftees has something to do with it too.