(07-15-2018 01:58 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(07-15-2018 01:43 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-15-2018 01:16 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Oregon was listed at $145m in revenue on the latest USA Today report. They have the finances to compete with most anyone.

Losing 5 head coaches (including Taggart) should be cause for concern.

Yes, last year they had a solid year contribution wise. The new Tax law was in effect for the sale of tickets for this coming Fall. When buzz circulates within an athletic department about a major shift in projected revenue for coming years the folks who work for them are savvy enough to realize what that will potentially mean. Maybe that's the case here, maybe not, but we'll know soon enough. And if it is, there will be a lot of other programs feeling it as well.

That said I don't see Taggart as being the red flag. Clearly he left for a more high profile program in an area he has more experience recruiting. It's the number of non revenue coaches they've lost that is suspicious to me.

According to the article the Track Coaches took a promotion to U of Washington. Most of the other moves appear to be better than lateral moves. I would think going from Eugene to Austin or Charlottesville would be an improvement. Is Oregon a capstone to anyone's career with the exception of Track and Field? At least in Texas and Virginia you get out of the gas station faster than 20 minutes as you don't have to wait for a pothead to pump your gas.

Actually, Oregon has been a capstone for at least one coach's career, and he became UO's AD, which would be Mike Bellotti. Texas has more $$'s than they really know what to do with. Generally, if Texas wants someone bad enough, they will get them, Nick Saban being the obvious exception. If Texas wanted to fire Coach Herman, and hire Jim Harbaugh, I'm sure they could pull it off.

Now Virginia is another story, and the only thing I can attribute that to is what JR talked about. I personally would much rather be at Oregon than at Virginia, but that's me. To me, Charlottesville is far from a destination job. If UCLA, USC, ND, Texas, Ohio State, Michigan, etc. wanted to coach from UVa, I don't believe it would take much.

(07-15-2018 07:25 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(07-15-2018 01:58 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(07-15-2018 01:43 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-15-2018 01:16 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Oregon was listed at $145m in revenue on the latest USA Today report. They have the finances to compete with most anyone.

Losing 5 head coaches (including Taggart) should be cause for concern.

Yes, last year they had a solid year contribution wise. The new Tax law was in effect for the sale of tickets for this coming Fall. When buzz circulates within an athletic department about a major shift in projected revenue for coming years the folks who work for them are savvy enough to realize what that will potentially mean. Maybe that's the case here, maybe not, but we'll know soon enough. And if it is, there will be a lot of other programs feeling it as well.

That said I don't see Taggart as being the red flag. Clearly he left for a more high profile program in an area he has more experience recruiting. It's the number of non revenue coaches they've lost that is suspicious to me.

According to the article the Track Coaches took a promotion to U of Washington. Most of the other moves appear to be better than lateral moves. I would think going from Eugene to Austin or Charlottesville would be an improvement. Is Oregon a capstone to anyone's career with the exception of Track and Field? At least in Texas and Virginia you get out of the gas station faster than 20 minutes as you don't have to wait for a pothead to pump your gas.

Actually, Oregon has been a capstone for at least one coach's career, and he became UO's AD, which would be Mike Bellotti. Texas has more $$'s than they really know what to do with. Generally, if Texas wants someone bad enough, they will get them, Nick Saban being the obvious exception. If Texas wanted to fire Coach Herman, and hire Jim Harbaugh, I'm sure they could pull it off.

Now Virginia is another story, and the only thing I can attribute that to is what JR talked about. I personally would much rather be at Oregon than at Virginia, but that's me. To me, Charlottesville is far from a destination job. If UCLA, USC, ND, Texas, Ohio State, Michigan, etc. wanted to coach from UVa, I don't believe it would take much.

UVa just finished a new indoor golf facility with offices and lockers for male and female golf teams. The coach who left went home to Wake Forest as her family is from the Winston Salem area. I would think the goal for a womans golf coach is a private school like Stanford, Duke, WF, etc., UVa is as close to private as you get and still be public. Who knows. Perhaps as JR said she was told no facility in Eugene. I hate to play with wet feet so I can't imagine playing golf in Oregon all the time.

(07-15-2018 01:42 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Oregon's AD worked for Debbie Yow at MD and I can tell you that non-revenue sports folks are judged by their post season play by her. It's probably not money.

Why and how Yow has been able to have the career she has/d, enough for all of these proteges who could be like her just baffles me. That name connotes nothing but trouble when I see it now. Do schools really think that pipeline is good?

But, like quality assurance, roll that sucker up. Maybe it says more about who made THAT hire more than it does who the AD is. That "lack of trust in senior leadership." Having worked at a few schools that saw presidential turnovers, sometimes nothing really changes, but sometimes everything does. Assistant coaches moving on is normal, and if they're getting head gigs, it's a sign the programs and leadership have an eye for talent...but that doesn't seem to be the only thing going on in Oregon.

Also, regarding the "would you rather" with Oregon and Virginia. Virginia 10/10. Especially if I have kids close to college age. But then, I could see why one would rather go/stay in Oregon...to say Virginia isn't all-in with its athletic programs as consistently as others could also speak to some of those same leadership issues others face.

UVa is a great place to coach any sport not named football.

Isn't Phil Knight retiring soon? (FAIK, maybe he already has?)

No doubt Oregon has to lean heavily on donations (they sure can't count on PTN revenues!)

USA Today numbers are too old to be helpful in this thread.

(07-15-2018 07:11 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Think about it: did Chip Kelly give UF much of a chance before UCLA hired him?

Chip was never going to Florida. UCLA is perfect for his personality. He wants to fly under the radar, not be the 24/7 focus of rabid, obsessed fans.

(07-16-2018 05:06 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(07-15-2018 01:42 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Oregon's AD worked for Debbie Yow at MD and I can tell you that non-revenue sports folks are judged by their post season play by her. It's probably not money.

Why and how Yow has been able to have the career she has/d, enough for all of these proteges who could be like her just baffles me. That name connotes nothing but trouble when I see it now. Do schools really think that pipeline is good?

But, like quality assurance, roll that sucker up. Maybe it says more about who made THAT hire more than it does who the AD is. That "lack of trust in senior leadership." Having worked at a few schools that saw presidential turnovers, sometimes nothing really changes, but sometimes everything does. Assistant coaches moving on is normal, and if they're getting head gigs, it's a sign the programs and leadership have an eye for talent...but that doesn't seem to be the only thing going on in Oregon.

Also, regarding the "would you rather" with Oregon and Virginia. Virginia 10/10. Especially if I have kids close to college age. But then, I could see why one would rather go/stay in Oregon...to say Virginia isn't all-in with its athletic programs as consistently as others could also speak to some of those same leadership issues others face.

What trouble? At Maryland she was tasked managing a program that has trouble raising funds from donors and boosters with a declining interest in Maryland football no matter what was done. Her problems with Gary Williams are that he stopped recruiting and started hanging out at too many coed parties. The system President and university Chancellor starved the athletic program for funds by requiring so many women's sports. That's not a Yow thing, but a MD thing. By the way that move to the B10 has not helped results for MD has it?


At NC State she ran off dead wood coaches and took back control of our basketball arena. We finished 15th in the Director's Cup this year despite spending around 50th. When she took over, our results in all sports had been dismal under her predecessor.


She most know something and it seems that what she knows pisses off the he-man woman haters club.


When Yow left Maryland for NC State, both basketball and football coaches at MD had not been producing for years. Consider the following:


Football

01 10-2 ACC Champs
02 11-3 2nd
03 10-3 2nd
04 5-6 8th
05 5-6 6th
06 9-4 3rd
07 5-8 6th
08 8-5 3rd
09 2-10 6th

Now if you were the Fridges AD what you have done? She was trying to install James Franklin but the MD boosters would not come up with the funds.

As time goes on it doesn't improve.

10 9-4 2nd
11 2-10 6th
12 4-8 5th
13 7-6 4th
14 7-6 3rd (Move to B10)
15 3-9 7th
16 6-7 5th
17 4-8 7th


The same scenario happened with Sweaty Gary. In 2001 he is 25-11 and makes the Final Four. In 2002 he is 32-4 and is National Champ. Then the following slide:


2003 - 21-10 2nd in ACC

2004 - 20-12 6th

2005 - 19-13 6th

2006 - 19-13 6th

2007 - 25-9 3rd (Dead Cat Bounce)

2008 - 19-15 5th

2009 - 21-14 7th


John Feinstein at the Washington Post was Gary's buddy and Gary hated Yow when she started to lean on him to produce again. It's all that simple.

(07-16-2018 03:00 PM)Statefan Wrote:  John Feinstein at the Washington Post was Gary's buddy and Gary hated Yow when she started to lean on him to produce again. It's all that simple.

It's not that simple, as nothing ever is. Yeah, there were the hit pieces. But, I wouldn't call Maryland a sausage-fest and easily discount her challenges for chauvinism, either.

Other coaches, former players, and donors beyond Williams also didn't really care for or trust her. Like it or not, a big part of the AD job is to dance the dance with donors...and she eventually repelled them (but, to her credit, she picked up momentum toward the turn of the century after years of decline). The 'kiss the ring" thing she had to do at Maryland, with Williams, stud or dud, was her job. And Maryland fans liked the guy, even if he wasn't always productive. It's not easy or fair...but it comes with the territory.

Some want to remember the part where she started bringing in more money for the department after inheriting significant debt. They don't want to complete the entire sentence, however. She spent those gains and then some. Her response in a 2012 SI article about that matter sees her only yucking up her accomplishments; she wouldn't own the debt from the facilities projects seen through to their realization, but would promote the benefits of her aggressive sponsorship deal. Brag about bringing in money (more on the front end but not toward her sunset years there), but not how one spent it, and how incomplete her forecast/projection was. And how that bad bet is partially (wholly?) responsible for UMD's decision to cut athletic programs.

Where I will defend her, but more a criticism of higher education senior leadership, is that upper-level administrators and presidents are utter cowards on the athletics and advancement front; that these people hide behind those lower in the organizational structure and is almost a standard operating procedure when unpopular decisions are made. Leaders who won't rebuke donors or alumni; assuming any criticism or slight is professional suicide. Williams was himself and presented other problems at Maryland...Yow had the thankless job of handling that, and nobody above her ultimately would have her back on it, but they should.

But, she started with debt, and left with debt. Football and basketball weren't amazing when she entered, nor when she left. Boosters weren't donating early, nor were they really at the end, either. Rocky relationships and cut programs in the aftermath. Whatever happened in between, the "heart of her story," sorry, I can't buy that...even if she's faring better at NCST.

I remember that hit piece. Who is Loh using now regarding Maryland's financial problems? Did he finally stop the comingling of athletic funds into a general fund? IIRC that finally came to light some time back.


It's difficult to get teachers to give money to athletics if they think their money might go to the food court or biology lab. It's also difficult to raise money off teachers which is the result of the movement of many of the graduate programs to Baltimore back in 1970.


I know a fella who knows a great deal about Maryland and Maryland athletics. He was interesting to listen to as he talked about his father.


When I mentioned Sweaty Gary and Feinstein I was talking about the knock on Yow of being difficult to work for when the reality is that she is difficult to work for if your teams suck. As for how the University of Maryland mismanaged their budgets, all I can say is they are lucky they were not in the State of NC and that the Athletic Department was just a pawn in Brit Kirwan's larger game. Do they still have the highest on campus dorm room prices on the east coast of any public school of does someone else have that title?