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Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
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Post: #41
RE: Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
(07-12-2018 02:22 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 11:36 AM)seaking4steel Wrote:  Sure some HBCU’s are struggling to compete in D1 let alone stay open but let’s add more HBCU’s to D1 to drain more money from the schools that are already struggling. That’ll fix it!


Actually schools like D2 Tuskegee, Albany State, Clark Atlanta, Fort Valley State and Virginia State all seems to be able to stay out of the negative in recent years. Stillman dropped sports and moved to the NAIA. Cheyney dropped out of all organizations. Kentucky State gain a 130% increase of incoming freshman last fall. Savannah State and Winston-Salem State may have instead moved to the A-Sun and Big South for all sports. HBCUs need a new look to attract more students, and hire people who do not milk the schools dry. I do think some schools should drop done to D2, some could move to FBS, and some just needs a new conference.
I read an article back around 2009-2010 that the President of Delaware State wanted to move the school to FBS. They need major overhauling to make the move.

"D2 Tuskegee, Albany State, Clark Atlanta, Fort Valley State and Virginia State all seems to be able to stay out of the negative in recent years" maybe because they are not burdened by the high costs of a D1 athletic department. There are enormous costs to moving to and then maintaining D1 athletics. Schools compete at the level that they are willing to afford and any financial instability is not going to be solved just because they are associated with the D1 athletics label. That 2009-10 article bears absolutely no relevance to today especially since Delaware State is on their 2nd president since then.
07-12-2018 05:15 PM
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Post: #42
RE: Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
(07-12-2018 05:15 PM)AZcats Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 02:22 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 11:36 AM)seaking4steel Wrote:  Sure some HBCU’s are struggling to compete in D1 let alone stay open but let’s add more HBCU’s to D1 to drain more money from the schools that are already struggling. That’ll fix it!


Actually schools like D2 Tuskegee, Albany State, Clark Atlanta, Fort Valley State and Virginia State all seems to be able to stay out of the negative in recent years. Stillman dropped sports and moved to the NAIA. Cheyney dropped out of all organizations. Kentucky State gain a 130% increase of incoming freshman last fall. Savannah State and Winston-Salem State may have instead moved to the A-Sun and Big South for all sports. HBCUs need a new look to attract more students, and hire people who do not milk the schools dry. I do think some schools should drop done to D2, some could move to FBS, and some just needs a new conference.
I read an article back around 2009-2010 that the President of Delaware State wanted to move the school to FBS. They need major overhauling to make the move.

"D2 Tuskegee, Albany State, Clark Atlanta, Fort Valley State and Virginia State all seems to be able to stay out of the negative in recent years" maybe because they are not burdened by the high costs of a D1 athletic department. There are enormous costs to moving to and then maintaining D1 athletics. Schools compete at the level that they are willing to afford and any financial instability is not going to be solved just because they are associated with the D1 athletics label. That 2009-10 article bears absolutely no relevance to today especially since Delaware State is on their 2nd president since then.

Exactly. If any of these schools tried for Division 1 they would quickly become strapped for cash. Savannah State dropping back down serves as an example of what would happen. Davey, not every school is meant to have D1 athletics.
07-12-2018 08:57 PM
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Post: #43
RE: Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
(07-09-2018 07:58 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Coppin State

I added one too many letters to the school's name.

Yet that somehow sounds a million times better.
07-12-2018 11:34 PM
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Post: #44
RE: Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
(07-12-2018 11:34 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(07-09-2018 07:58 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Coppin State

I added one too many letters to the school's name.

Yet that somehow sounds a million times better.

Coppin State laid an ass-whooping on 2-seed South Carolina in the 90’s. And of course we all know Norfolk State stunning popular national title pick Missouri. IMO, once you pull an upset in the NCAA Tournament, you earn a golden ticket forever. It’s like how winning the Masters gets you a lifetime invite.
07-12-2018 11:44 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
What's that got to do with the name Choppin State?
07-13-2018 01:02 AM
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Post: #46
RE: Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
(07-12-2018 08:57 PM)seaking4steel Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 05:15 PM)AZcats Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 02:22 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 11:36 AM)seaking4steel Wrote:  Sure some HBCU’s are struggling to compete in D1 let alone stay open but let’s add more HBCU’s to D1 to drain more money from the schools that are already struggling. That’ll fix it!


Actually schools like D2 Tuskegee, Albany State, Clark Atlanta, Fort Valley State and Virginia State all seems to be able to stay out of the negative in recent years. Stillman dropped sports and moved to the NAIA. Cheyney dropped out of all organizations. Kentucky State gain a 130% increase of incoming freshman last fall. Savannah State and Winston-Salem State may have instead moved to the A-Sun and Big South for all sports. HBCUs need a new look to attract more students, and hire people who do not milk the schools dry. I do think some schools should drop done to D2, some could move to FBS, and some just needs a new conference.
I read an article back around 2009-2010 that the President of Delaware State wanted to move the school to FBS. They need major overhauling to make the move.

"D2 Tuskegee, Albany State, Clark Atlanta, Fort Valley State and Virginia State all seems to be able to stay out of the negative in recent years" maybe because they are not burdened by the high costs of a D1 athletic department. There are enormous costs to moving to and then maintaining D1 athletics. Schools compete at the level that they are willing to afford and any financial instability is not going to be solved just because they are associated with the D1 athletics label. That 2009-10 article bears absolutely no relevance to today especially since Delaware State is on their 2nd president since then.

Exactly. If any of these schools tried for Division 1 they would quickly become strapped for cash. Savannah State dropping back down serves as an example of what would happen. Davey, not every school is meant to have D1 athletics.


It is not that Savannah State dropping down because of the money issues. The school have been mismanaged both in the academics and athletics. Look what happened to Cheyney? They busted and almost went out of their misery. Those schools I mentioned are run better than some of the D1, d2 and other HBCUs. It is who are running the institutions that run them to the ground.
07-13-2018 01:16 AM
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Post: #47
RE: Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
(07-13-2018 01:16 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 08:57 PM)seaking4steel Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 05:15 PM)AZcats Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 02:22 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 11:36 AM)seaking4steel Wrote:  Sure some HBCU’s are struggling to compete in D1 let alone stay open but let’s add more HBCU’s to D1 to drain more money from the schools that are already struggling. That’ll fix it!


Actually schools like D2 Tuskegee, Albany State, Clark Atlanta, Fort Valley State and Virginia State all seems to be able to stay out of the negative in recent years. Stillman dropped sports and moved to the NAIA. Cheyney dropped out of all organizations. Kentucky State gain a 130% increase of incoming freshman last fall. Savannah State and Winston-Salem State may have instead moved to the A-Sun and Big South for all sports. HBCUs need a new look to attract more students, and hire people who do not milk the schools dry. I do think some schools should drop done to D2, some could move to FBS, and some just needs a new conference.
I read an article back around 2009-2010 that the President of Delaware State wanted to move the school to FBS. They need major overhauling to make the move.

"D2 Tuskegee, Albany State, Clark Atlanta, Fort Valley State and Virginia State all seems to be able to stay out of the negative in recent years" maybe because they are not burdened by the high costs of a D1 athletic department. There are enormous costs to moving to and then maintaining D1 athletics. Schools compete at the level that they are willing to afford and any financial instability is not going to be solved just because they are associated with the D1 athletics label. That 2009-10 article bears absolutely no relevance to today especially since Delaware State is on their 2nd president since then.

Exactly. If any of these schools tried for Division 1 they would quickly become strapped for cash. Savannah State dropping back down serves as an example of what would happen. Davey, not every school is meant to have D1 athletics.


It is not that Savannah State dropping down because of the money issues. The school have been mismanaged both in the academics and athletics. Look what happened to Cheyney? They busted and almost went out of their misery. Those schools I mentioned are run better than some of the D1, d2 and other HBCUs. It is who are running the institutions that run them to the ground.

Wrong again.

Savannah State moving back to NCAA Division II because of financial concerns

BREAKING: Cheyney To End NCAA Membership
07-13-2018 08:24 AM
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Post: #48
RE: Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
(07-13-2018 01:16 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 08:57 PM)seaking4steel Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 05:15 PM)AZcats Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 02:22 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 11:36 AM)seaking4steel Wrote:  Sure some HBCU’s are struggling to compete in D1 let alone stay open but let’s add more HBCU’s to D1 to drain more money from the schools that are already struggling. That’ll fix it!


Actually schools like D2 Tuskegee, Albany State, Clark Atlanta, Fort Valley State and Virginia State all seems to be able to stay out of the negative in recent years. Stillman dropped sports and moved to the NAIA. Cheyney dropped out of all organizations. Kentucky State gain a 130% increase of incoming freshman last fall. Savannah State and Winston-Salem State may have instead moved to the A-Sun and Big South for all sports. HBCUs need a new look to attract more students, and hire people who do not milk the schools dry. I do think some schools should drop done to D2, some could move to FBS, and some just needs a new conference.
I read an article back around 2009-2010 that the President of Delaware State wanted to move the school to FBS. They need major overhauling to make the move.

"D2 Tuskegee, Albany State, Clark Atlanta, Fort Valley State and Virginia State all seems to be able to stay out of the negative in recent years" maybe because they are not burdened by the high costs of a D1 athletic department. There are enormous costs to moving to and then maintaining D1 athletics. Schools compete at the level that they are willing to afford and any financial instability is not going to be solved just because they are associated with the D1 athletics label. That 2009-10 article bears absolutely no relevance to today especially since Delaware State is on their 2nd president since then.

Exactly. If any of these schools tried for Division 1 they would quickly become strapped for cash. Savannah State dropping back down serves as an example of what would happen. Davey, not every school is meant to have D1 athletics.


It is not that Savannah State dropping down because of the money issues. The school have been mismanaged both in the academics and athletics. Look what happened to Cheyney? They busted and almost went out of their misery. Those schools I mentioned are run better than some of the D1, d2 and other HBCUs. It is who are running the institutions that run them to the ground.

Some current events for you.
State legislatures began cutting back the increase of higher ed funding.
Then the recession came and saw states move from not increasing higher ed funding at the pace inflation to actually cutting dollars.
The number of potential students has over that period been flat to dipped.
Many schools began to expand their enrollment to find new funding.
Many schools began offering online courses and extension site courses.

Smaller schools with less than good brands or poor cost to reputation ratios have been bleeding students.

You can say Savannah State was mismanaged but the more respected brands in their state have been growing and if Georgia is like other states, the value seeker has been switching to jucos to start out. Those student growth numbers come at the cost of someone. The Savannah States and the Cheney's and the Lambuth's of the world have been the losers.

Any drunk heckler on the sidelines can say they failed because they were mismanaged. That's fun but it isn't true. They have failed or struggled because the market changed and they lacked the tools needed to change with the market.
07-13-2018 10:36 AM
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Post: #49
RE: Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
(07-13-2018 08:24 AM)AZcats Wrote:  
(07-13-2018 01:16 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 08:57 PM)seaking4steel Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 05:15 PM)AZcats Wrote:  
(07-12-2018 02:22 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Actually schools like D2 Tuskegee, Albany State, Clark Atlanta, Fort Valley State and Virginia State all seems to be able to stay out of the negative in recent years. Stillman dropped sports and moved to the NAIA. Cheyney dropped out of all organizations. Kentucky State gain a 130% increase of incoming freshman last fall. Savannah State and Winston-Salem State may have instead moved to the A-Sun and Big South for all sports. HBCUs need a new look to attract more students, and hire people who do not milk the schools dry. I do think some schools should drop done to D2, some could move to FBS, and some just needs a new conference.
I read an article back around 2009-2010 that the President of Delaware State wanted to move the school to FBS. They need major overhauling to make the move.

"D2 Tuskegee, Albany State, Clark Atlanta, Fort Valley State and Virginia State all seems to be able to stay out of the negative in recent years" maybe because they are not burdened by the high costs of a D1 athletic department. There are enormous costs to moving to and then maintaining D1 athletics. Schools compete at the level that they are willing to afford and any financial instability is not going to be solved just because they are associated with the D1 athletics label. That 2009-10 article bears absolutely no relevance to today especially since Delaware State is on their 2nd president since then.

Exactly. If any of these schools tried for Division 1 they would quickly become strapped for cash. Savannah State dropping back down serves as an example of what would happen. Davey, not every school is meant to have D1 athletics.


It is not that Savannah State dropping down because of the money issues. The school have been mismanaged both in the academics and athletics. Look what happened to Cheyney? They busted and almost went out of their misery. Those schools I mentioned are run better than some of the D1, d2 and other HBCUs. It is who are running the institutions that run them to the ground.

Wrong again.

Savannah State moving back to NCAA Division II because of financial concerns

BREAKING: Cheyney To End NCAA Membership

Savannah State is dropping down for a variety of reasons, including financial issues but also because they can't compete.
07-13-2018 12:01 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
HBCUs are a bit like Ivy League schools in that they cater to a limited fan base. In the days when African Americans couldn't play for Alabama or LSU, let alone buy a ticket to see a game in their stadiums. Now that those barriers are lifted the best black athletes in the South play for those types of programs and the HBCUs are left catering to a shrinking niche audience. Their athletic programs and the institutions themselves are caught in a catch 22--stick to their heritage and remain predominately black and keep athletics in an HBCU conference and you're safe, but your potential is seriously curtailed and will continue shrink. Others have taken the approach that diversifying their student base to maintain enrollment levels but at the cost of eroding their historical legacy.

I thought FAMU had the potential to be the school that transcended that when they flirted with FBS. I think if someone like them came up to FBS they might be able to build a reputation as a sort of HBCU Notre Dame--grab talented athletes and be the team that the broader HBCU community could rally behind at a national level in addition to following their local HBCU or alma mater.
07-13-2018 01:15 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
Still think Florida A&M to FBS could’ve worked if they rode it out.
07-13-2018 01:54 PM
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Post: #52
RE: Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
(07-13-2018 01:15 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  HBCUs are a bit like Ivy League schools in that they cater to a limited fan base. In the days when African Americans couldn't play for Alabama or LSU, let alone buy a ticket to see a game in their stadiums. Now that those barriers are lifted the best black athletes in the South play for those types of programs and the HBCUs are left catering to a shrinking niche audience. Their athletic programs and the institutions themselves are caught in a catch 22--stick to their heritage and remain predominately black and keep athletics in an HBCU conference and you're safe, but your potential is seriously curtailed and will continue shrink. Others have taken the approach that diversifying their student base to maintain enrollment levels but at the cost of eroding their historical legacy.

I thought FAMU had the potential to be the school that transcended that when they flirted with FBS. I think if someone like them came up to FBS they might be able to build a reputation as a sort of HBCU Notre Dame--grab talented athletes and be the team that the broader HBCU community could rally behind at a national level in addition to following their local HBCU or alma mater.

Jackson State is one of those on the verge that could make an FBS transition. They had a white QB who was very good a few years ago. Jackson State have been slowly turning into a regular University than an HBCU. Schools like Jackson State who could get white kids to enroll in them could handle the changing times. Schools like Savannah State who got off slow in trying to get white students would fail.
Kentucky State had a 130% increase in students enrolling in the fall of last year. HBCUs had a positive increase of students enrolling for the first time in several years. There are a few who are still losing students like Cheyney and Chicago State, but others have been on the rise since the African American students feel that they are not welcome on campuses like LSU, Oklahoma, Texas and so forth because of the political nutjobs like Trump got elected.
07-13-2018 02:37 PM
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Post: #53
RE: Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
Savannah State got approved to Join D2.

South Carolina State is a good example how a pissed poor job of people running that school.
07-13-2018 03:52 PM
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Post: #54
RE: Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
(07-13-2018 02:37 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Jackson State is one of those on the verge that could make an FBS transition. They had a white QB who was very good a few years ago. Jackson State have been slowly turning into a regular University than an HBCU. Schools like Jackson State who could get white kids to enroll in them could handle the changing times. Schools like Savannah State who got off slow in trying to get white students would fail.

Jackson State is only 4% white.
07-13-2018 05:07 PM
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Post: #55
RE: Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
(07-13-2018 02:37 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Jackson State is one of those on the verge that could make an FBS transition. They had a white QB who was very good a few years ago. Jackson State have been slowly turning into a regular University than an HBCU. Schools like Jackson State who could get white kids to enroll in them could handle the changing times. Schools like Savannah State who got off slow in trying to get white students would fail.
Kentucky State had a 130% increase in students enrolling in the fall of last year. HBCUs had a positive increase of students enrolling for the first time in several years. There are a few who are still losing students like Cheyney and Chicago State, but others have been on the rise since the African American students feel that they are not welcome on campuses like LSU, Oklahoma, Texas and so forth because of the political nutjobs like Trump got elected.

"Jackson State had a white QB"; so what, Arkansas-Pine Bluff had one too and so did Grambling nearly 60 years ago who became so famous they made a TV movie about him (and was portrayed by Bruce Jenner).

You can't turn a HBCU into a regular university, mainly because it already is a regular university and it will always be a HBCU no matter how many non-black students they have. For example, Bluefield State College is a HBCU with 91.59% non-black students.

The statement about Kentucky State is completely false. This February 2017 KSU news release states
Quote:Undergraduate enrollment is now 2,096, which is up 34.3 percent from last spring, and the graduate enrollment count is 172; 17.8 percent higher than last spring.

Total enrollment is up over 30 percent from fall 2016. KSU’s current total enrollment is 2,268, an increase of 532 students from fall semester.

First-time, first-year students went up by 133 percent from spring 2016 to spring 2017. First-time graduate students went up 12.5 percent and transfer students went up 68.3 percent.
This is for Spring 2017 numbers compared to Spring 2016 in the 1st and 3rd paragraph and Spring 2017 compared to Fall 2016 in the 2nd paragraph.

In this KSU fact sheet: the total enrollment in Fall 2016 was 1,736 and in Fall 2017 was 1,926. That represents a 10.94% increase.
07-14-2018 01:10 AM
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Post: #56
RE: Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
(07-14-2018 01:10 AM)AZcats Wrote:  
(07-13-2018 02:37 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Jackson State is one of those on the verge that could make an FBS transition. They had a white QB who was very good a few years ago. Jackson State have been slowly turning into a regular University than an HBCU. Schools like Jackson State who could get white kids to enroll in them could handle the changing times. Schools like Savannah State who got off slow in trying to get white students would fail.
Kentucky State had a 130% increase in students enrolling in the fall of last year. HBCUs had a positive increase of students enrolling for the first time in several years. There are a few who are still losing students like Cheyney and Chicago State, but others have been on the rise since the African American students feel that they are not welcome on campuses like LSU, Oklahoma, Texas and so forth because of the political nutjobs like Trump got elected.

"Jackson State had a white QB"; so what, Arkansas-Pine Bluff had one too and so did Grambling nearly 60 years ago who became so famous they made a TV movie about him (and was portrayed by Bruce Jenner).

You can't turn a HBCU into a regular university, mainly because it already is a regular university and it will always be a HBCU no matter how many non-black students they have. For example, Bluefield State College is a HBCU with 91.59% non-black students.

The statement about Kentucky State is completely false. This February 2017 KSU news release states
Quote:Undergraduate enrollment is now 2,096, which is up 34.3 percent from last spring, and the graduate enrollment count is 172; 17.8 percent higher than last spring.

Total enrollment is up over 30 percent from fall 2016. KSU’s current total enrollment is 2,268, an increase of 532 students from fall semester.

First-time, first-year students went up by 133 percent from spring 2016 to spring 2017. First-time graduate students went up 12.5 percent and transfer students went up 68.3 percent.
This is for Spring 2017 numbers compared to Spring 2016 in the 1st and 3rd paragraph and Spring 2017 compared to Fall 2016 in the 2nd paragraph.

In this KSU fact sheet: the total enrollment in Fall 2016 was 1,736 and in Fall 2017 was 1,926. That represents a 10.94% increase.


Strange because one report said KSU went up 130% for the fall of 2017.

HBCUs Sudden Increase Of freshmens

Quote:North Carolina A&T, the largest HBCU in America, posted a record-breaking incoming class of 2,300 students this fall, giving A&T its largest student population ever. Kentucky State saw a 162 percent increase in its freshman class from summer to fall registration. Spelman College saw first-time applications jump from just over 5,000 in 2015 to over 8,000 for the 2017 fall semester, on top of a record 47 transfer students.

So, the enrollment is on the rise for HBCUs for the fall 2017.
07-14-2018 02:10 AM
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Post: #57
RE: Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
(07-13-2018 01:15 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  HBCUs are a bit like Ivy League schools in that they cater to a limited fan base. In the days when African Americans couldn't play for Alabama or LSU, let alone buy a ticket to see a game in their stadiums. Now that those barriers are lifted the best black athletes in the South play for those types of programs and the HBCUs are left catering to a shrinking niche audience. Their athletic programs and the institutions themselves are caught in a catch 22--stick to their heritage and remain predominately black and keep athletics in an HBCU conference and you're safe, but your potential is seriously curtailed and will continue shrink. Others have taken the approach that diversifying their student base to maintain enrollment levels but at the cost of eroding their historical legacy.

I thought FAMU had the potential to be the school that transcended that when they flirted with FBS. I think if someone like them came up to FBS they might be able to build a reputation as a sort of HBCU Notre Dame--grab talented athletes and be the team that the broader HBCU community could rally behind at a national level in addition to following their local HBCU or alma mater.

Grambling was the Notre Dame of HBCUs for a long time.
07-14-2018 02:44 AM
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RE: Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
(07-11-2018 07:52 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  The TSU thing with OVC speaks a lot about both the school and what OVC sees itself as. It's progressive.

What Hampton finally did...was progressive.

Some of these others hangers-on, though...that I'm not so sure. Would I call any of these schools leaving MEAC or SWAC "progressive" when we know their operating funds were shrinking so steadily? It's different for a Hampton, or Howard (were they to). They aren't hurting. They can do the MEAC or SWAC for some time. It's the Norfolk State's, SCSU's, Grambling's, and others I'm not so sure of. Or Delaware State, who started this move into something more than their history had them pegged when they went from DSC to DSU. They haven't been all too quiet about what they wished they were, too.

The thing is, there never was a "golden age" where HBCUs were thriving, and that they have since fallen from.

HBCUs were created largely by racist legislatures during the Jim Crow era with grudging funding. They have always survived on bailing wire and duct tape because that's always what they were given.

Struggling forward has always been the HBCU way. 07-coffee3
07-14-2018 02:49 AM
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seaking4steel Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
I'm still laughing about how it's apparently Trump's fault that certain HBCU's are seeing growth.
07-14-2018 11:48 AM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Should Southern University Leave the SWAC to Join The Southland?
(07-13-2018 01:54 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Still think Florida A&M to FBS could’ve worked if they rode it out.

No it wouldn't have, they would've lost big (in multiple ways) and dropped back down already.
07-14-2018 03:08 PM
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