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Rice hosting TSU in 2021
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loki_the_bubba Offline
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Rice hosting TSU in 2021
07-03-2018 12:05 PM
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westsidewolf1989 Offline
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RE: Rice hosting TSU in 2021
(07-03-2018 12:05 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/...18aaa.html

Why are we adding FCS games?

So we can get a gimme win (theoretically) that sets us on the path to the Poulan Bad Boy Mowers Weed-Eater Sarsaparilla Bowl
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2018 12:12 PM by westsidewolf1989.)
07-03-2018 12:12 PM
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baker-'13 Offline
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RE: Rice hosting TSU in 2021
(07-03-2018 12:05 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/...18aaa.html

Why are we adding FCS games?

Butts. In. Seats.
07-03-2018 12:13 PM
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ExcitedOwl18 Online
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RE: Rice hosting TSU in 2021
It’s stupid not to play an FCS game. PV and TSU are much better choices than Wagner, so can’t complain.

If we beat Texas, UH, and OSU that season, we’ll get the access bowl whether our 4th non conference is TSU or TxSt.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2018 12:19 PM by ExcitedOwl18.)
07-03-2018 12:19 PM
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Exclamation RE: Rice hosting TSU in 2021
(07-03-2018 12:19 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  It’s stupid not to play an FCS game. PV and TSU are much better choices than Wagner, so can’t complain.

If we beat Texas, UH, and OSU that season, we’ll get the access bowl whether our 4th non conference is TSU or TxSt.

Dare we schedule ¢5 State again?
07-03-2018 12:31 PM
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RE: Rice hosting TSU in 2021
(07-03-2018 12:12 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  
(07-03-2018 12:05 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/...18aaa.html

Why are we adding FCS games?

So we can get a gimme win (theoretically) that sets us on the path to the Poulan Bad Boy Mowers Weed-Eater Sarsaparilla Bowl

I don't get the disdain for the lower level bowl. If it is considered a steppingstone rather than an ultimate goal, I am all for it.

Rose Bowl > Poulan Bad Boy Mowers Weed-Eater Sarsaparilla Bowl > no bowl.
07-03-2018 02:18 PM
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ESE84 Offline
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RE: Rice hosting TSU in 2021
(07-03-2018 02:18 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(07-03-2018 12:12 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  
(07-03-2018 12:05 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/...18aaa.html

Why are we adding FCS games?

So we can get a gimme win (theoretically) that sets us on the path to the Poulan Bad Boy Mowers Weed-Eater Sarsaparilla Bowl

I don't get the disdain for the lower level bowl. If it is considered a steppingstone rather than an ultimate goal, I am all for it.

Rose Bowl > Poulan Bad Boy Mowers Weed-Eater Sarsaparilla Bowl > no bowl.

I agree. I had a great time in Fort Worth for the Armed Forces Bowl, and the New Orleans Bowl was a fun trip despite the game score.

I also agree with those who note this is about putting fans in the stadium for a local opponent, and having a home game to offset the elite programs who won't play us at home, or offer us 2-for-1 scheduling.
07-03-2018 03:10 PM
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RE: Rice hosting TSU in 2021
(07-03-2018 03:10 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  
(07-03-2018 02:18 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  [quote='westsidewolf1989' pid='15369933' dateline='1530637928']
[quote='loki_the_bubba' pid='15369925' dateline='1530637539']
http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/...18aaa.html

Why are we adding FCS games?

I don't get the disdain for the lower level bowl. If it is considered a steppingstone rather than an ultimate goal, I am all for it.

Rose Bowl > Poulan Bad Boy Mowers Weed-Eater Sarsaparilla Bowl > no bowl.

I have never understood all of the animosity against "too any bowls". We just had a big debate in Dallas over the poorly attended Heart of Dallas bowl. To the kids and parents, any bowl is a reward and another chance to play. I understand that economics sometimes makes hosting a bowl unfeasible - but playing in a lower bowl with two 6-6 teams is always worthwhile to me.
07-03-2018 04:23 PM
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RE: Rice hosting TSU in 2021
There are always reasons why playing in a bad bowl is better tan not playing in a bowl. I think back to 1963, Rice finished 6-4, Sun Bowl wanted us, but Jess said no. SMU at 4-6 was invited instead. 1964 was supposed to be a better year for Rice, including some top ten picks, but the Owls fell well short of expectations at 4-5-1, and then were 2-8 in each of Jess's last two seasons. Meanwhile SMU was on the upswing, and went to the Cotton Bowl after the 1966 season. I wonder if things would have been different had we taken that Sun Bowl invite. Would the extra few weeks of practice have paid the kinds of dividends that seem to be the norm nowadays?

I also wonder how things would have been different if, three years later, we had hired Tommy Prothro or Ray Graves instead of Bo Hagan. I'm pretty sure if we had hired Prothro, we would have moved to the forefront of the SWC in recruiting African-American athletes, probably not with Graves. I still wonder if some element of racism played out in not hiring Prothro. A lot of people like to blame Pitzer for hiring Bo, but Pitzer went from Rice to Stanford and was president there when Stanford charted a very different course, so I wonder.

Whatever, I can say with great regret that I was very close to the program when Rice made conscious and intentional decisions to become systematically non-competitive and irrelevant in intercollegiate athletics, and I remain extremely frustrated to have been there, seen it up close, and known what was going to happen. I may have seen sicker cows than this one get well, but it's going to take a succession of miracles to get out of the hole we dug. And we dug it. Don't blame anybody else.

Sorry about going OT here. Just gets so frustrating every time I recall.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2018 07:49 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
07-03-2018 04:46 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Rice hosting TSU in 2021
(07-03-2018 04:23 PM)Rice FB Fan Wrote:  
(07-03-2018 03:10 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  
(07-03-2018 02:18 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  [quote='westsidewolf1989' pid='15369933' dateline='1530637928']
[quote='loki_the_bubba' pid='15369925' dateline='1530637539']
http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/...18aaa.html

Why are we adding FCS games?

I don't get the disdain for the lower level bowl. If it is considered a steppingstone rather than an ultimate goal, I am all for it.

Rose Bowl > Poulan Bad Boy Mowers Weed-Eater Sarsaparilla Bowl > no bowl.

I have never understood all of the animosity against "too any bowls". We just had a big debate in Dallas over the poorly attended Heart of Dallas bowl. To the kids and parents, any bowl is a reward and another chance to play. I understand that economics sometimes makes hosting a bowl unfeasible - but playing in a lower bowl with two 6-6 teams is always worthwhile to me.

It is basically a participation trophy at this point. 80+ out of 130 go to a bowl, so it isn't a crowning achievement. The problem is the athletic departments and fans haven't fully internalized this yet. So we consider a coach to be successful for making a participation level bowl. Never mind that it is so much easier now than it was in years past.

If Rice going to a bowl was just like any other game against any other mediocre opponent (which is truly is at our level), fine. No disdain. But if you start talking extensions for "unprecedented success" by beating a ****** Fresno State team- Thats a problem.

Basically, celebrating low end bowls is missing the forest for the trees. Rice easily loses sight of what objective success is by distractions like these bowls and alphabet soup MBB tournaments and rapidly begins to believe that we aren't as bad as we really are and desperately need to improve.
07-03-2018 04:48 PM
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ExcitedOwl18 Online
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RE: Rice hosting TSU in 2021
(07-03-2018 04:48 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(07-03-2018 04:23 PM)Rice FB Fan Wrote:  
(07-03-2018 03:10 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  
(07-03-2018 02:18 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  [quote='westsidewolf1989' pid='15369933' dateline='1530637928']
[quote='loki_the_bubba' pid='15369925' dateline='1530637539']
http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/...18aaa.html

Why are we adding FCS games?

I don't get the disdain for the lower level bowl. If it is considered a steppingstone rather than an ultimate goal, I am all for it.

Rose Bowl > Poulan Bad Boy Mowers Weed-Eater Sarsaparilla Bowl > no bowl.

I have never understood all of the animosity against "too any bowls". We just had a big debate in Dallas over the poorly attended Heart of Dallas bowl. To the kids and parents, any bowl is a reward and another chance to play. I understand that economics sometimes makes hosting a bowl unfeasible - but playing in a lower bowl with two 6-6 teams is always worthwhile to me.

It is basically a participation trophy at this point. 80+ out of 130 go to a bowl, so it isn't a crowning achievement. The problem is the athletic departments and fans haven't fully internalized this yet. So we consider a coach to be successful for making a participation level bowl. Never mind that it is so much easier now than it was in years past.

If Rice going to a bowl was just like any other game against any other mediocre opponent (which is truly is at our level), fine. No disdain. But if you start talking extensions for "unprecedented success" by beating a ****** Fresno State team- Thats a problem.

Basically, celebrating low end bowls is missing the forest for the trees. Rice easily loses sight of what objective success is by distractions like these bowls and alphabet soup MBB tournaments and rapidly begins to believe that we aren't as bad as we really are and desperately need to improve.

I agree with this, to an extent. I think you also have to evaluate the context of the bowl.

A crappy bowl this year in Bloomgren's first year would make most everyone on here happy and it would be a sign of great progress... Now if it's year 6 of Bloomgren and we make a crappy bowl for the first time... Not so great.
07-03-2018 05:02 PM
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RE: Rice hosting TSU in 2021
You guys bring up great points about participation bowls that I never thought about - and yes, I agree with what you are saying. For kids, parents and die hard supporters, a participation bowl has many upsides. But claiming "we've made it" as an athletic department over a participation bowl may not be deserved.

And yes, the Charmin/Drano Bowl this season would be a real blast for me! But five years from now I am hoping for a little better.

This sick cow can only get better by consistent improvement and winning. Most universities have lots of fans who never attended those schools. If we can consistently win and beat a team in an upset here and there, we can become relevant and profitable within our own scale.
07-03-2018 05:35 PM
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RE: Rice hosting TSU in 2021
As I said, if making a crappy bowl is seen as a steppingstone rather than as a goal achieved, then it is good. TCU went to a lot of crappy bowls on their way up (and will again). I see every bowl,, every win, as a prelude to better things.

The problem with the Bailiff years (and every year since 1960) was that we didn't build on our successes. So if Bloom gets us to a 6-6 bowl this year, fine, nice job, but it has to be cemented in with progress the year after, and the year after, and the year after...
07-03-2018 05:36 PM
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RE: Rice hosting TSU in 2021
(07-03-2018 05:36 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  As I said, if making a crappy bowl is seen as a steppingstone rather than as a goal achieved, then it is good. TCU went to a lot of crappy bowls on their way up (and will again). I see every bowl,, every win, as a prelude to better things.

The problem with the Bailiff years (and every year since 1960) was that we didn't build on our successes. So if Bloom gets us to a 6-6 bowl this year, fine, nice job, but it has to be cemented in with progress the year after, and the year after, and the year after...

This
07-03-2018 07:39 PM
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Antarius Offline
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RE: Rice hosting TSU in 2021
(07-03-2018 07:39 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(07-03-2018 05:36 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  As I said, if making a crappy bowl is seen as a steppingstone rather than as a goal achieved, then it is good. TCU went to a lot of crappy bowls on their way up (and will again). I see every bowl,, every win, as a prelude to better things.

The problem with the Bailiff years (and every year since 1960) was that we didn't build on our successes. So if Bloom gets us to a 6-6 bowl this year, fine, nice job, but it has to be cemented in with progress the year after, and the year after, and the year after...

This

Except this is not even remotely close to how Rice Athletics, the 25(0) or most of Parliament acted. 7 years in going to a bowl and beating a pretty terrible AFA team was heralded as impressive. Making another bowl (and getting throttled) by a 6-6 team was enough to make it rain extensions. Anyone who pointed out that beating a 6-6 team in a bowl wasn't a big deal was shouted down as a malcontent. We saw exactly how the next 4 years developed.

8 years in we were applauding a participation award. Same **** different day with MBB and the CIT under Braun. Color me skeptical that this cycle won't repeat.
07-03-2018 08:08 PM
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Antarius Offline
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RE: Rice hosting TSU in 2021
(07-03-2018 05:02 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I agree with this, to an extent. I think you also have to evaluate the context of the bowl.

A crappy bowl this year in Bloomgren's first year would make most everyone on here happy and it would be a sign of great progress... Now if it's year 6 of Bloomgren and we make a crappy bowl for the first time... Not so great.

to me, bowl or not, we can draw the same conclusions. The bowl is just like a 13th game that 70% of CFB gets to play.

If Rice shows up and beats PVaTm and some CUSA, plays decent against UH and ilk and doesn't lose to LSU on the opening kickoff (like Stanford), then we can be excited for the future regardless whether we go to a bowl, win a bowl, lose a bowl etc.

As a result, my hiring decisions wouldn't be based on number of bowls. 6-6 or 7-6 in year 5 in CUSA SHOULD get anyone fired. The issue I have is because we were 6-6 + 1 Bowl win, it suddenly made it a whole lot better. When it really wasn't.
07-03-2018 08:12 PM
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Post: #17
RE: Rice hosting TSU in 2021
(07-03-2018 05:36 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  As I said, if making a crappy bowl is seen as a steppingstone rather than as a goal achieved, then it is good. TCU went to a lot of crappy bowls on their way up (and will again). I see every bowl,, every win, as a prelude to better things.
The problem with the Bailiff years (and every year since 1960) was that we didn't build on our successes. So if Bloom gets us to a 6-6 bowl this year, fine, nice job, but it has to be cemented in with progress the year after, and the year after, and the year after...

As I've said before, that was always my concern about Bailiff--that he couldn't sustain. He could win if the stars aligned right, but not consistently, year in and year out. He didn't at Texas State--he was 5-6 the year after the playoff run--and he didn't at Rice--2008 was followed by 2009-11, at a critical time for the program, and 2012-14 was followed by 2015-17.
07-03-2018 08:32 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Rice hosting TSU in 2021
(07-03-2018 08:32 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(07-03-2018 05:36 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  As I said, if making a crappy bowl is seen as a steppingstone rather than as a goal achieved, then it is good. TCU went to a lot of crappy bowls on their way up (and will again). I see every bowl,, every win, as a prelude to better things.
The problem with the Bailiff years (and every year since 1960) was that we didn't build on our successes. So if Bloom gets us to a 6-6 bowl this year, fine, nice job, but it has to be cemented in with progress the year after, and the year after, and the year after...

As I've said before, that was always my concern about Bailiff--that he couldn't sustain. He could win if the stars aligned right, but not consistently, year in and year out. He didn't at Texas State--he was 5-6 the year after the playoff run--and he didn't at Rice--2008 was followed by 2009-11, at a critical time for the program, and 2012-14 was followed by 2015-17.

But this highlights part of the problem. 2012-2014 wasnt successful. By any objective measure. Bottom half teams that got slaughtered by anyone with a pulse.

2012-2014 was fireably bad period in my mind. Forget about 2015 onwards and before. We beat a 0.500 air force and 0.500 Fresno and lost to a 0.500 Mississippi State. But because they carried the magic title of "bowl" we look on this more favorably than we should have.

None of this is impressive. We got fooled.
07-03-2018 09:26 PM
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Antarius Offline
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RE: Rice hosting TSU in 2021
and im sure people will argue the fireable part. But hey look at where we are now vs after Graham. Money, TV, conference.

Football drives that a lot. So maybe we couldnt fix it, but the everything-is-awesome on bowls guaranteed this path. Years ago.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2018 09:34 PM by Antarius.)
07-03-2018 09:31 PM
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RE: Rice hosting TSU in 2021
(07-03-2018 08:32 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(07-03-2018 05:36 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  As I said, if making a crappy bowl is seen as a steppingstone rather than as a goal achieved, then it is good. TCU went to a lot of crappy bowls on their way up (and will again). I see every bowl,, every win, as a prelude to better things.
The problem with the Bailiff years (and every year since 1960) was that we didn't build on our successes. So if Bloom gets us to a 6-6 bowl this year, fine, nice job, but it has to be cemented in with progress the year after, and the year after, and the year after...

As I've said before, that was always my concern about Bailiff--that he couldn't sustain. He could win if the stars aligned right, but not consistently, year in and year out. He didn't at Texas State--he was 5-6 the year after the playoff run--and he didn't at Rice--2008 was followed by 2009-11, at a critical time for the program, and 2012-14 was followed by 2015-17.

I hope Bloom can put us on a solid upward trend. I don't give a damn about the the things people are gushing about now, unless they produce some wins and the first steps toward that higher plateau we were talking about. Whether we show three wins or seven in 2018, I want us to show more in 2019, and more yet in 2020. I would rather see that than nine wins in 2018 and four in 2019. Been there done that.
07-03-2018 09:47 PM
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