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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #21
RE: JMU Sells Land
(07-04-2018 10:40 AM)Potomac Wrote:  
(07-04-2018 10:25 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(07-03-2018 10:19 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  I wish Harrisonburg’s School Board would think outside the box on this. Two high schools in the city hurts the school division’s ability to offer students a wide range of high-level opportunities. Build a second campus across the street, but keep it as a unified school. Or build an 8-9 grade “junior high” and keep all 10-12 together. Makes me sad that the decision makers are afraid to do something outside the box. I hate scared leadership.

The issue has been examined from multiple points of view, everything you've suggested and many more. The school system's administration is anything but "scared." The best solution for Harrisonburg, Harrisonburg Schools, and the education of a burgeoning student population is a second High School.

Stop it with rational posting longhorn. Gosh darn it, it’s 2018 and we love our conspiracy theories!

What on earth did I post that even approaches a conspiracy theory? That school board members & city administrators won’t fully explore alternate solutions? Doesn’t sound like a conspiracy at all when I re-read it.

Longhorn, why does Harrisonburg need a 2nd HS versus the 9-10 concept I proposed? Clearly you know more about this specifically than me, so share a few of those specifics.
07-04-2018 12:58 PM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #22
RE: JMU Sells Land
(07-04-2018 10:05 AM)TXGiant Wrote:  
(07-03-2018 09:43 AM)olddawg Wrote:  
(07-03-2018 08:58 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  Not familiar with Harrisonburg real estate market, but at that price it almost seems like a "goodwill" gift, given the location.

Wonder if JMU won't look back at this with regret someday when looking to expand again. It can be difficult to acquire large blocks of land.

Guessing it's some sort of quid pro quo deal. The school probably has their eye on something in the future where they'll need the City's help.

(07-03-2018 10:22 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  
(07-03-2018 10:19 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  I wish Harrisonburg’s School Board would think outside the box on this. Two high schools in the city hurts the school division’s ability to offer students a wide range of high-level opportunities. Build a second campus across the street, but keep it as a unified school. Or build an 8-9 grade “junior high” and keep all 10-12 together. Makes me sad that the decision makers are afraid to do something outside the box. I hate scared leadership.

I agree with you 100%. Not sure Harrisonburg will 'really' benefit from a 2nd full-scale HS. I like the 2nd campus idea for just 8-9 grades.

Totally agree (kind of!). Our town voted keep “one HS” and solved the problem by have two schools- a 9-10 and an 11-12. It was a brilliant decision because it kept the town unified for sports, etc. and the benefit of separating freshman from seniors is hard to quantify but it’s real. We use busses for those students who need to attend classes at the alternate campus.

Seniors being generally separated from freshmen is a definite plus. More resources for extracurriculars to draw from is a good thing & cheaper than jump-starting a 2nd set of similar programs at a 2nd school. I bet Harrisonburg could figure out how to put the buildings adjacent as well, creating two adjacent campuses.
07-04-2018 01:01 PM
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Longhorn Offline
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Post: #23
RE: JMU Sells Land
(07-04-2018 12:58 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  
(07-04-2018 10:40 AM)Potomac Wrote:  
(07-04-2018 10:25 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(07-03-2018 10:19 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  I wish Harrisonburg’s School Board would think outside the box on this. Two high schools in the city hurts the school division’s ability to offer students a wide range of high-level opportunities. Build a second campus across the street, but keep it as a unified school. Or build an 8-9 grade “junior high” and keep all 10-12 together. Makes me sad that the decision makers are afraid to do something outside the box. I hate scared leadership.

The issue has been examined from multiple points of view, everything you've suggested and many more. The school system's administration is anything but "scared." The best solution for Harrisonburg, Harrisonburg Schools, and the education of a burgeoning student population is a second High School.

Stop it with rational posting longhorn. Gosh darn it, it’s 2018 and we love our conspiracy theories!

What on earth did I post that even approaches a conspiracy theory? That school board members & city administrators won’t fully explore alternate solutions? Doesn’t sound like a conspiracy at all when I re-read it.

Longhorn, why does Harrisonburg need a 2nd HS versus the 9-10 concept I proposed? Clearly you know more about this specifically than me, so share a few of those specifics.

Enrollment at the one HS is already at 135%+ of its capacity. Anticipated growth in enrollment (those kids already in the pipeline and expected growth in the city’s population) means Harrisonburg is expecting to educate some 3000+ 9-12th graders by 2028.

Your idea (if I’m following you correctly) of building a school just for 9-10 graders doesn’t really resolve the current and long-term enrollment growth concerns. Also the new Harrisonburg HS is being planned to save construction costs by avoiding duplication where possible by sharing athletic facilities with the existing HS. Those savings would be negated with a separate 9-10 campus.

Alternatives like adding onto the existing 9-12 HS, and/or building a campus next to the existing HS and splitting the kids into 9-10 and 11-12
groups was explored, but ultimately that would still leave some 3000 kids on basically the same campus. Harrisonburg doesn’t want to go that route...the school administration, school board and city council want to keep the schools (elementary through HS) on the small side, believing more intimate campus environments promote better educational experiences for the kids.
07-04-2018 02:45 PM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #24
RE: JMU Sells Land
I will say it does make sense from an athletics travel perspective (aka $$$) to have schools similar in size to those within a reasonable drive. I’m just sad for all the different programs at HHS that will go backwards due to smaller population pool.

I don’t think “We just don’t want that many students in one location” is a very good reason. You can have a large campus, while maintaining good student:teacher ratios. Those aren’t the same concept, although easily interchangeable with some people. (sometimes intentionally to deceive)
I’ve yet to hear a reason (outside of athletics travel cost) that a separate building nearby for 9-10 wouldn’t provide a solution to the overcrowding without fragmenting the city into two high schools.
07-04-2018 03:02 PM
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Longhorn Offline
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Post: #25
RE: JMU Sells Land
(07-04-2018 03:02 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  I will say it does make sense from an athletics travel perspective (aka $$$) to have schools similar in size to those within a reasonable drive. I’m just sad for all the different programs at HHS that will go backwards due to smaller population pool.

I don’t think “We just don’t want that many students in one location” is a very good reason. You can have a large campus, while maintaining good student:teacher ratios. Those aren’t the same concept, although easily interchangeable with some people. (sometimes intentionally to deceive)
I’ve yet to hear a reason (outside of athletics travel cost) that a separate building nearby for 9-10 wouldn’t provide a solution to the overcrowding without fragmenting the city into two high schools.

Well, your entitled to your opinion. Large campuses carry with it other issues, however, transportation egress (traffic coming and going to the campus), impact on the surrounding neighborhood, safety, ability to monitor students, etc. are only a few. In the end Harrisonburg officials have collaborated to make a decision that reflects the best interests of how public education will be offered in this community.
07-04-2018 03:17 PM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #26
RE: JMU Sells Land
True. Local governance good. I don’t live in Harrisonburg.
07-04-2018 05:42 PM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: JMU Sells Land
(07-03-2018 10:48 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  Bogey! A rare sighting. Any sense on our incoming freshman class of men's players? It seems like they are fitting in pretty well and want to work hard like the rest of the team. I like this group a lot and want to hear your expectations for the year.

Cent, I know you asked for Bogey's take which I am always interested in as well.

FWIW on the Class of 18 recruits (Parker, Hicklin, Urbach and Flowers) Parker and Hicklin seem to be built to be able to compete physically right away. They are guards with some size/strength.
07-05-2018 06:58 AM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: JMU Sells Land
(07-04-2018 05:42 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  True. Local governance good. I don’t live in Harrisonburg.

I've never really heard of a high school with two campuses before- sounds odd and disjointed to me. I think 2 high schools is usually how big towns/areas do it. It's not college it's high school.
07-05-2018 07:00 AM
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Deez Nuts Online
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Post: #29
RE: JMU Sells Land
It'll be exciting when they build it too small, like they did the last high school, all the while knowing about the population trends, and we have to go through this again in 10 more years.
07-05-2018 07:45 AM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #30
RE: JMU Sells Land
(07-05-2018 07:00 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  
(07-04-2018 05:42 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  True. Local governance good. I don’t live in Harrisonburg.

I've never really heard of a high school with two campuses before- sounds odd and disjointed to me. I think 2 high schools is usually how big towns/areas do it. It's not college it's high school.

I believe this is the biggest reason it’s happening like it is. Fear of doing it differently because it’s not common. No one wants to put themselves in a position to be criticized. Even if this doesn’t solve any long-term overcrowding issues, the leaders are immune from criticism because “we did what every other locality does!”
07-05-2018 08:00 AM
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Longhorn Offline
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Post: #31
RE: JMU Sells Land
(07-05-2018 07:45 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  It'll be exciting when they build it too small, like they did the last high school, all the while knowing about the population trends, and we have to go through this again in 10 more years.

From what I've seen the new HS will basically use the same blueprint as the existing school (saving on architectural fees I suppose), made to fit onto the recently acquired plot of land.

That means the new school will be designed to serve between 1250-1400 students, so you're right, in another decade the debate may well begin again. While the two HS may handle 3000 students, I don't believe H'Burg is going to stop growing, so does H'Burg build a third HS? The 'Burg population is now estimated at around 53k+...in 2028 could it be pushing 60K? In the next 20 years could it grow to 75 or 100K? Hard to imagine this quaint college town that size...
07-05-2018 08:05 AM
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Jmuwishyouhadadukedog Offline
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Post: #32
RE: JMU Sells Land
(07-05-2018 08:05 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(07-05-2018 07:45 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  It'll be exciting when they build it too small, like they did the last high school, all the while knowing about the population trends, and we have to go through this again in 10 more years.

From what I've seen the new HS will basically use the same blueprint as the existing school (saving on architectural fees I suppose), made to fit onto the recently acquired plot of land.

That means the new school will be designed to serve between 1250-1400 students, so you're right, in another decade the debate may well begin again. While the two HS may handle 3000 students, I don't believe H'Burg is going to stop growing, so does H'Burg build a third HS? The 'Burg population is now estimated at around 53k+...in 2028 could it be pushing 60K? In the next 20 years could it grow to 75 or 100K? Hard to imagine this quaint college town that size...

Harrisonburg proper is projected to have a population of 74,521 in 2040, according to the Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service at UVa. There is a moratorium on annexation of land in Virginia by cities of counties, which has been in place since the early 1990's. Looking at an aerial map of Harrisonburg shows that there isnt a ton of undeveloped land in the city left that isnt owned by the city or JMU. Most of the growth in population will likely have to be accommodated by multifamily housing being build on redeveloped land and/or increased occupancy rates in the existing outdated student housing. I just really wish developers would quit building new student housing instead of redeveloping what already exists.
07-05-2018 09:37 AM
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Jmuwishyouhadadukedog Offline
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Post: #33
RE: JMU Sells Land
(07-05-2018 08:05 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(07-05-2018 07:45 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  It'll be exciting when they build it too small, like they did the last high school, all the while knowing about the population trends, and we have to go through this again in 10 more years.

From what I've seen the new HS will basically use the same blueprint as the existing school (saving on architectural fees I suppose), made to fit onto the recently acquired plot of land.

That means the new school will be designed to serve between 1250-1400 students, so you're right, in another decade the debate may well begin again. While the two HS may handle 3000 students, I don't believe H'Burg is going to stop growing, so does H'Burg build a third HS? The 'Burg population is now estimated at around 53k+...in 2028 could it be pushing 60K? In the next 20 years could it grow to 75 or 100K? Hard to imagine this quaint college town that size...

Harrisonburg proper is projected to have a population of 74,521 in 2040, according to the Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service at UVa. There is a moratorium on annexation of land in Virginia by cities of counties, which has been in place since the early 1990's. Looking at an aerial map of Harrisonburg shows that there isnt a ton of undeveloped land in the city left that isnt owned by the city or JMU. Most of the growth in population will likely have to be accommodated by multifamily housing being build on redeveloped land and/or increased occupancy rates in the existing outdated student housing. I just really wish developers would quit building new student housing instead of redeveloping what already exists.
07-05-2018 09:37 AM
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JMURocks Offline
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Post: #34
RE: JMU Sells Land
(07-05-2018 09:37 AM)Jmuwishyouhadadukedog Wrote:  
(07-05-2018 08:05 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(07-05-2018 07:45 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  It'll be exciting when they build it too small, like they did the last high school, all the while knowing about the population trends, and we have to go through this again in 10 more years.

From what I've seen the new HS will basically use the same blueprint as the existing school (saving on architectural fees I suppose), made to fit onto the recently acquired plot of land.

That means the new school will be designed to serve between 1250-1400 students, so you're right, in another decade the debate may well begin again. While the two HS may handle 3000 students, I don't believe H'Burg is going to stop growing, so does H'Burg build a third HS? The 'Burg population is now estimated at around 53k+...in 2028 could it be pushing 60K? In the next 20 years could it grow to 75 or 100K? Hard to imagine this quaint college town that size...

Harrisonburg proper is projected to have a population of 74,521 in 2040, according to the Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service at UVa. There is a moratorium on annexation of land in Virginia by cities of counties, which has been in place since the early 1990's. Looking at an aerial map of Harrisonburg shows that there isnt a ton of undeveloped land in the city left that isnt owned by the city or JMU. Most of the growth in population will likely have to be accommodated by multifamily housing being build on redeveloped land and/or increased occupancy rates in the existing outdated student housing. I just really wish developers would quit building new student housing instead of redeveloping what already exists.

While these are all valid points, doesn’t city growth often happen thru annexation and development of tbe surrounding areas also? Or is that not a possibility in the ‘burg due to surrounding towns?

I do think prime location land will become increasingly hard to acquire for both the city and JMU, but I could see them building a new HS somewhere that would be considered the outskirts today.
07-05-2018 10:53 AM
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Jmuwishyouhadadukedog Offline
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Post: #35
RE: JMU Sells Land
(07-05-2018 10:53 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(07-05-2018 09:37 AM)Jmuwishyouhadadukedog Wrote:  
(07-05-2018 08:05 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(07-05-2018 07:45 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  It'll be exciting when they build it too small, like they did the last high school, all the while knowing about the population trends, and we have to go through this again in 10 more years.

From what I've seen the new HS will basically use the same blueprint as the existing school (saving on architectural fees I suppose), made to fit onto the recently acquired plot of land.

That means the new school will be designed to serve between 1250-1400 students, so you're right, in another decade the debate may well begin again. While the two HS may handle 3000 students, I don't believe H'Burg is going to stop growing, so does H'Burg build a third HS? The 'Burg population is now estimated at around 53k+...in 2028 could it be pushing 60K? In the next 20 years could it grow to 75 or 100K? Hard to imagine this quaint college town that size...

Harrisonburg proper is projected to have a population of 74,521 in 2040, according to the Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service at UVa. There is a moratorium on annexation of land in Virginia by cities of counties, which has been in place since the early 1990's. Looking at an aerial map of Harrisonburg shows that there isnt a ton of undeveloped land in the city left that isnt owned by the city or JMU. Most of the growth in population will likely have to be accommodated by multifamily housing being build on redeveloped land and/or increased occupancy rates in the existing outdated student housing. I just really wish developers would quit building new student housing instead of redeveloping what already exists.

While these are all valid points, doesn’t city growth often happen thru annexation and development of tbe surrounding areas also? Or is that not a possibility in the ‘burg due to surrounding towns?

I do think prime location land will become increasingly hard to acquire for both the city and JMU, but I could see them building a new HS somewhere that would be considered the outskirts today.

I addressed the issue of annexation. In 1987, the Virginia assembly put a moratorium on all annexation by cities which has been continually renewed and is in place till at least 2024, with no sign it wont be extended. Literally not one member voted against extension in 2016. Towns can, however, annex if the county that they are in approves.
07-05-2018 12:24 PM
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JMURocks Offline
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Post: #36
RE: JMU Sells Land
(07-05-2018 12:24 PM)Jmuwishyouhadadukedog Wrote:  
(07-05-2018 10:53 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(07-05-2018 09:37 AM)Jmuwishyouhadadukedog Wrote:  
(07-05-2018 08:05 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(07-05-2018 07:45 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  It'll be exciting when they build it too small, like they did the last high school, all the while knowing about the population trends, and we have to go through this again in 10 more years.

From what I've seen the new HS will basically use the same blueprint as the existing school (saving on architectural fees I suppose), made to fit onto the recently acquired plot of land.

That means the new school will be designed to serve between 1250-1400 students, so you're right, in another decade the debate may well begin again. While the two HS may handle 3000 students, I don't believe H'Burg is going to stop growing, so does H'Burg build a third HS? The 'Burg population is now estimated at around 53k+...in 2028 could it be pushing 60K? In the next 20 years could it grow to 75 or 100K? Hard to imagine this quaint college town that size...

Harrisonburg proper is projected to have a population of 74,521 in 2040, according to the Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service at UVa. There is a moratorium on annexation of land in Virginia by cities of counties, which has been in place since the early 1990's. Looking at an aerial map of Harrisonburg shows that there isnt a ton of undeveloped land in the city left that isnt owned by the city or JMU. Most of the growth in population will likely have to be accommodated by multifamily housing being build on redeveloped land and/or increased occupancy rates in the existing outdated student housing. I just really wish developers would quit building new student housing instead of redeveloping what already exists.

While these are all valid points, doesn’t city growth often happen thru annexation and development of tbe surrounding areas also? Or is that not a possibility in the ‘burg due to surrounding towns?

I do think prime location land will become increasingly hard to acquire for both the city and JMU, but I could see them building a new HS somewhere that would be considered the outskirts today.

I addressed the issue of annexation. In 1987, the Virginia assembly put a moratorium on all annexation by cities which has been continually renewed and is in place till at least 2024, with no sign it wont be extended. Literally not one member voted against extension in 2016. Towns can, however, annex if the county that they are in approves.

Interesting information, thanks. Explains why my area in Fairfax county bordering two cities hasn’t been annexed yet. Always thought it was inevitable, as we are near Metro and the place is growing like crazy with lots of tear down and rebuild construction.
07-05-2018 05:54 PM
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91Alum Offline
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Post: #37
RE: JMU Sells Land
(07-03-2018 08:58 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  Not familiar with Harrisonburg real estate market, but at that price it almost seems like a "goodwill" gift, given the location.

Wonder if JMU won't look back at this with regret someday when looking to expand again. It can be difficult to acquire large blocks of land.

I'm not sure - that plot of land looks to be almost three miles from campus. It's difficult to get large plots of land anywhere east of the Mississippi, but I'm not sure how useful that land would ultimately have been for JMU.
07-05-2018 10:50 PM
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Post: #38
RE: JMU Sells Land
(07-05-2018 10:50 PM)91Alum Wrote:  
(07-03-2018 08:58 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  Not familiar with Harrisonburg real estate market, but at that price it almost seems like a "goodwill" gift, given the location.

Wonder if JMU won't look back at this with regret someday when looking to expand again. It can be difficult to acquire large blocks of land.

I'm not sure - that plot of land looks to be almost three miles from campus. It's difficult to get large plots of land anywhere east of the Mississippi, but I'm not sure how useful that land would ultimately have been for JMU.

Tend to agree with you 91. I know a lot of schools have areas of study or some type of athletics that far or further from campus, but I'd rather see JMU try to keep things a little closer. I know Liberty has it's flight school/classrooms located at the LYH airport but that type thing is the exception. Students need to be around the masses of the population as much as possible for their growth.
07-06-2018 05:53 AM
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Post: #39
RE: JMU Sells Land
(07-03-2018 10:10 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  The new high school is a hot topic in town. JMU bought it for 4... maybe 4.3? It's a win win for the University. They didn't get hamstrung with 60 acres of space "nowhere" near main campus, and they made a couple of bucks on the deal, while ultimately helping the City.

I had read the university bought for $4.2mm. Thats a nice profit on unimproved land.
07-12-2018 01:53 PM
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