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USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
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SVHerd Online
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Post: #41
RE: USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
(06-30-2018 02:24 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 01:46 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 01:37 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 09:43 AM)SVHerd Wrote:  Yep, fan generated revenue tells you everything you need to know about the overall health of an athletic program. You can be subsidized out the ass and still be in debt and not winning titles.

Might not give you the total picture of the health of AD but that statement has some truth to it. I would love to see what each CUSA school reeled in as self generated revenue i.e. ticket sales, sponsorships, donations etc. I don't know if anyone compiles that data but that would be very helpful.

Certainly not everything but if fans and donors are not actively investing and an AD is falsely propped up by state money and high student fees, that’s not a good long term situation. Jmho

You can look at it that way but FIU has a budget that is more healthy than Marshall's. Even with low ticket sales and over 21 million in student fees....

FIU has tons of room to grow

On July 1st FIU's AD has 21 million dollars in the bank and those students paying that money are not burdened as much as the Marshall students that contribute over 6 million to the Marshall budget.

each FIU student is paying $381 a year in student fees (based off 55,000)
each Marshall student is paying $471 a year in student fees (based off 13,300)

If FIU added another $90 to their student fees and caught up with Marshall. That adds right at 5 million more a year to the FIU budget. That is 1.2x the amount Marshall is getting on tickets sold.

FIU is expecting enrollment numbers to reach 58,000 (3000 more than today) by 2020. That 3000 increase adds another 1.1 million to their AD budget

Below came from Google:

The 2018 undergraduate tuition & fees of Florida International University are $6,556 for Florida residents

According to https://www.marshall.edu/tuition/ it cost a Marshall student $4,064 Per Semester Tuition for a Resident of WV. $8128 a year for a Resident of WV.

In the last 7 years Marshall has been in the mid to high 3 million mark on dollars off tickets sold. So basically Marshall has been stable but without any major growth. In those years Marshall had a run of 10, 13 and 10 wins and a conference championship... with very little growth on tickets sold .

This has nothing to do with me being a Western fan. Hell I pointed out the problems Western was going to have, well over 2 years ago. I knew Western (like most of our schools) are a state cut or a enrollment decrease away from cutting millions from our budget.

This is just a look at how student fees are the most stable stream of income in most schools budget. How a school without much tickets sold but a large enrollment is actually the stable school when it comes to a budget and growth

I can appreciate all that, but Marshall will never prop up its athletic budget on the backs of the students as some schools do. Is that suicide, maybe, but that’s their goal and I think things would have to be pretty dire to change that stance. Of course it would help all our schools if we had a better media package but that ship has sailed and ain’t coming back.

The fact that Marshall is in the most depressed area of any league school doesn’t help.
06-30-2018 02:48 PM
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FIU4Ever Offline
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Post: #42
RE: USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
(06-30-2018 02:46 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 02:24 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 01:46 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 01:37 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 09:43 AM)SVHerd Wrote:  Yep, fan generated revenue tells you everything you need to know about the overall health of an athletic program. You can be subsidized out the ass and still be in debt and not winning titles.

Might not give you the total picture of the health of AD but that statement has some truth to it. I would love to see what each CUSA school reeled in as self generated revenue i.e. ticket sales, sponsorships, donations etc. I don't know if anyone compiles that data but that would be very helpful.

Certainly not everything but if fans and donors are not actively investing and an AD is falsely propped up by state money and high student fees, that’s not a good long term situation. Jmho

You can look at it that way but FIU has a budget that is more healthy than Marshall's. Even with low ticket sales and over 21 million in student fees....

FIU has tons of room to grow

On July 1st FIU's AD has 21 million dollars in the bank and those students paying that money are not burdened as much as the Marshall students that contribute over 6 million to the Marshall budget.

each FIU student is paying $381 a year in student fees (based off 55,000)
each Marshall student is paying $471 a year in student fees (based off 13,300)

If FIU added another $90 to their student fees and caught up with Marshall. That adds right at 5 million more a year to the FIU budget. That is 1.2x the amount Marshall is getting on tickets sold.

FIU is expecting enrollment numbers to reach 58,000 (3000 more than today) by 2020. That 3000 increase adds another 1.1 million to their AD budget

Below came from Google:

The 2018 undergraduate tuition & fees of Florida International University are $6,556 for Florida residents

According to https://www.marshall.edu/tuition/ it cost a Marshall student $4,064 Per Semester Tuition for a Resident of WV. $8128 a year for a Resident of WV.

In the last 7 years Marshall has been in the mid to high 3 million mark on dollars off tickets sold. So basically Marshall has been stable but without any major growth. In those years Marshall had a run of 10, 13 and 10 wins and a conference championship... with very little growth on tickets sold .

This has nothing to do with me being a Western fan. Hell I pointed out the problems Western was going to have, well over 2 years ago. I knew Western (like most of our schools) are a state cut or a enrollment decrease away from cutting millions from our budget.

This is just a look at how student fees are the most stable stream of income in most schools budget. How a school without much tickets sold but a large enrollment is actually the stable school when it comes to a budget and growth

I can appreciate all that, but Marshall will never prop up its athletic budget on the backs of the students as some schools do. Is that suicide, maybe, but that’s their goal and I think things would have to be pretty dire to change that stance. Of course it would help all our schools if we had a better media package but that ship has sailed and ain’t coming back.
Fact 1:
A Marshall student taking 15 credits hours in a semester pays $705 in fees ($47 "University fees" per credit hour ) https://www.marshall.edu/tuition/undergraduate-fees/

A FIU student taking 15 credit hours in a semester pays $494.39 in fees (Athletic Fees, Health Fees, Parking Fees, Panther ID ) http://admissions.fiu.edu/costs-and-aid/index.html

Fact 2:
FIU instate tuition is less than Marshall's instate tuition ($205.57 vs $278.25).

Which is a bigger burden on the backs of students?
06-30-2018 02:59 PM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #43
RE: USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
(06-30-2018 02:48 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 02:24 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 01:46 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 01:37 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 09:43 AM)SVHerd Wrote:  Yep, fan generated revenue tells you everything you need to know about the overall health of an athletic program. You can be subsidized out the ass and still be in debt and not winning titles.

Might not give you the total picture of the health of AD but that statement has some truth to it. I would love to see what each CUSA school reeled in as self generated revenue i.e. ticket sales, sponsorships, donations etc. I don't know if anyone compiles that data but that would be very helpful.

Certainly not everything but if fans and donors are not actively investing and an AD is falsely propped up by state money and high student fees, that’s not a good long term situation. Jmho

You can look at it that way but FIU has a budget that is more healthy than Marshall's. Even with low ticket sales and over 21 million in student fees....

FIU has tons of room to grow

On July 1st FIU's AD has 21 million dollars in the bank and those students paying that money are not burdened as much as the Marshall students that contribute over 6 million to the Marshall budget.

each FIU student is paying $381 a year in student fees (based off 55,000)
each Marshall student is paying $471 a year in student fees (based off 13,300)

If FIU added another $90 to their student fees and caught up with Marshall. That adds right at 5 million more a year to the FIU budget. That is 1.2x the amount Marshall is getting on tickets sold.

FIU is expecting enrollment numbers to reach 58,000 (3000 more than today) by 2020. That 3000 increase adds another 1.1 million to their AD budget

Below came from Google:

The 2018 undergraduate tuition & fees of Florida International University are $6,556 for Florida residents

According to https://www.marshall.edu/tuition/ it cost a Marshall student $4,064 Per Semester Tuition for a Resident of WV. $8128 a year for a Resident of WV.

In the last 7 years Marshall has been in the mid to high 3 million mark on dollars off tickets sold. So basically Marshall has been stable but without any major growth. In those years Marshall had a run of 10, 13 and 10 wins and a conference championship... with very little growth on tickets sold .

This has nothing to do with me being a Western fan. Hell I pointed out the problems Western was going to have, well over 2 years ago. I knew Western (like most of our schools) are a state cut or a enrollment decrease away from cutting millions from our budget.

This is just a look at how student fees are the most stable stream of income in most schools budget. How a school without much tickets sold but a large enrollment is actually the stable school when it comes to a budget and growth

I can appreciate all that, but Marshall will never prop up its athletic budget on the backs of the students as some schools do. Is that suicide, maybe, but that’s their goal and I think things would have to be pretty dire to change that stance. Of course it would help all our schools if we had a better media package but that ship has sailed and ain’t coming back.

The fact that Marshall is in the most depressed area of any league school doesn’t help.


the % don't matter

Each Marshall student is paying $90 more each year per-student for sports than a FIU student. So actually Marshall is propping up its athletic budget on the backs of the students.

FIU just has more students

I 100% agree with your last sentence and that is one reason Marshall's student enrollment has very little room for growth. And Marshall is getting close to a top end on tuition at over $8,000 a year. Western is in worse shape than Marshall on that front even with Western's larger enrollment numbers.....

there's only so many dollars you can squeeze out of a person before it's tips the scales....decrease enrollment. Hell even there FIU is beating Marshall and Western. FIU is a bargain at $6,556 year. Western just had a 4% tuition increase and it cost over 10k a year....

schools in depressed areas with high tuition can not grow

I've seen the fan support Marshall has, football and basketball. I can't say anything negative about it. Great fans! But just like all of us their is a ceiling to the dollars we will get from those fans....

Marshall has a increase in dollars out tickets sold right after moving to CUSA then a drop for two years. Marshall hires a new football coach and tickets sold increases again. It's remained in that mid to upper 3 million range for 7 seasons

So unless there's another conference move in Marshall's future....dollars off tickets sold has some room to grow but not enough to matter.

Of course that's just my opinion, based off the numbers shown over a large period of years. And as you pointed out Marshall is located in one of the most depressed area of all the CUSA schools. Limited amount of recreation dollars to go around.
06-30-2018 03:11 PM
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FIU4Ever Offline
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Post: #44
RE: USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
(06-30-2018 02:24 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 01:46 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 01:37 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 09:43 AM)SVHerd Wrote:  Yep, fan generated revenue tells you everything you need to know about the overall health of an athletic program. You can be subsidized out the ass and still be in debt and not winning titles.

Might not give you the total picture of the health of AD but that statement has some truth to it. I would love to see what each CUSA school reeled in as self generated revenue i.e. ticket sales, sponsorships, donations etc. I don't know if anyone compiles that data but that would be very helpful.

Certainly not everything but if fans and donors are not actively investing and an AD is falsely propped up by state money and high student fees, that’s not a good long term situation. Jmho

You can look at it that way but FIU has a budget that is more healthy than Marshall's. Even with low ticket sales and over 21 million in student fees....

FIU has tons of room to grow

On July 1st FIU's AD has 21 million dollars in the bank and those students paying that money are not burdened as much as the Marshall students that contribute over 6 million to the Marshall budget.

each FIU student is paying $381 a year in student fees (based off 55,000)
each Marshall student is paying $471 a year in student fees (based off 13,300)

If FIU added another $90 to their student fees and caught up with Marshall. That adds right at 5 million more a year to the FIU budget. That is 1.2x the amount Marshall is getting on tickets sold.

FIU is expecting enrollment numbers to reach 58,000 (3000 more than today) by 2020. That 3000 increase adds another 1.1 million to their AD budget

Below came from Google:

The 2018 undergraduate tuition & fees of Florida International University are $6,556 for Florida residents

According to https://www.marshall.edu/tuition/ it cost a Marshall student $4,064 Per Semester Tuition for a Resident of WV. $8128 a year for a Resident of WV.

In the last 7 years Marshall has been in the mid to high 3 million mark on dollars off tickets sold. So basically Marshall has been stable but without any major growth. In those years Marshall had a run of 10, 13 and 10 wins and a conference championship... with very little growth on tickets sold .

This has nothing to do with me being a Western fan. Hell I pointed out the problems Western was going to have, well over 2 years ago. I knew Western (like most of our schools) are a state cut or a enrollment decrease away from cutting millions from our budget.

This is just a look at how student fees are the most stable stream of income in most schools budget. How a school without much tickets sold but a large enrollment is actually the stable school when it comes to a budget and growth

Folks keep looking at the POOL of funds, then compare it to their school's enrollment. FIU's tuition is lower than Marshall's, FIU's fees are lower than Marshall's and that is including FIU's mandatory parking fee. Marshall is an additional $170 per year on top of the current fees.

Sorry you had to break this info out again WKUYG, but I would suggest you keep it close by for next June/July because I am sure it will pop up again when the next budgets come out.
06-30-2018 03:12 PM
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Shrack Offline
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Post: #45
USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
So this is for sure not including last year's football season right? Because UAB's budget dropped 8 million if it did.

But good lord the administration must be seriously screwing us if they're counting student fees into their 15 million "school funds" subsidy cap because it looks like they only used 11 million then just included students fees. My only guess is some of it rolled over into the next year when football actually started playing again.

Guess I'll have to wait until next year to see.

Lol what a cluster

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06-30-2018 03:27 PM
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SVHerd Online
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RE: USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
Glad you guys put me in my place. Good luck as you blow past the little school in Appalachia. UCF did.
06-30-2018 04:50 PM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #47
RE: USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
(06-30-2018 04:50 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  Glad you guys put me in my place. Good luck as you blow past the little school in Appalachia. UCF did.

I wasn't trying to put anyone in there place, just explaining my opinion on a budget. Which I had to make many of based off future income of all types. I would rather base it off a known, proven, stream of money. Money with the potential of large increases just by a little growth. Than off a stream of money that is not growing and will need a large growth for a meaningful increase.

Western is in worse shape than Marshall because as we have seen....winning will not increase our dollars by much. Where Marshall and Western differ is in basketball. That can be a cash cow for Western. Marshall on the other hand will need to greatly increase ticket prices in basketball...based off your attendance. I don't know if Marshall can sustain the basketball attendance with increase cost. Just unproven right now.

I say that because money made off tickets sold is all sports and I think most of Marshall's is coming from football. So basketball tickets must be priced low......you had very good attendance numbers (for CUSA)
(This post was last modified: 06-30-2018 05:14 PM by WKUYG.)
06-30-2018 05:09 PM
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12thmonarch Offline
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Post: #48
RE: USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
Some good points in this thread. The good thing about high enrollment schools is they have more room to grow interms of student fees that they can use for athletics not that i am advocating for it but that way they can put less stress and raise huge cash with a marginal increase in athletic fees. Like if we had 55 K enrollment that would rake in some serious money despite that 55% limit being enforced by VA which is a joke BTW. We are the second cheapest college option in VA that offers both masters and PhD level programs. May be that is the problem we should address and raise the academic reputation as well as tuition.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2018 12:52 AM by 12thmonarch.)
07-01-2018 12:51 AM
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ghostofclt Offline
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RE: USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
clt says it does make sense to bring in big schools in growing markets.
07-01-2018 06:17 AM
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Flat Tire 2 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
(06-30-2018 02:24 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 01:46 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 01:37 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 09:43 AM)SVHerd Wrote:  Yep, fan generated revenue tells you everything you need to know about the overall health of an athletic program. You can be subsidized out the ass and still be in debt and not winning titles.

Might not give you the total picture of the health of AD but that statement has some truth to it. I would love to see what each CUSA school reeled in as self generated revenue i.e. ticket sales, sponsorships, donations etc. I don't know if anyone compiles that data but that would be very helpful.

Certainly not everything but if fans and donors are not actively investing and an AD is falsely propped up by state money and high student fees, that’s not a good long term situation. Jmho

You can look at it that way but FIU has a budget that is more healthy than Marshall's. Even with low ticket sales and over 21 million in student fees....

FIU has tons of room to grow

On July 1st FIU's AD has 21 million dollars in the bank and those students paying that money are not burdened as much as the Marshall students that contribute over 6 million to the Marshall budget.

each FIU student is paying $381 a year in student fees (based off 55,000)
each Marshall student is paying $471 a year in student fees (based off 13,300)

Can you provide a link to student fees payed by Marshall and FIU? Fees can cover a lot of different items and I would like to see a breakdown of how much of the fees go directly to support the schools athletic programs.
07-01-2018 06:44 AM
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FIU4Ever Offline
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Post: #51
RE: USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
(07-01-2018 06:44 AM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 02:24 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 01:46 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 01:37 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 09:43 AM)SVHerd Wrote:  Yep, fan generated revenue tells you everything you need to know about the overall health of an athletic program. You can be subsidized out the ass and still be in debt and not winning titles.

Might not give you the total picture of the health of AD but that statement has some truth to it. I would love to see what each CUSA school reeled in as self generated revenue i.e. ticket sales, sponsorships, donations etc. I don't know if anyone compiles that data but that would be very helpful.

Certainly not everything but if fans and donors are not actively investing and an AD is falsely propped up by state money and high student fees, that’s not a good long term situation. Jmho

You can look at it that way but FIU has a budget that is more healthy than Marshall's. Even with low ticket sales and over 21 million in student fees....

FIU has tons of room to grow

On July 1st FIU's AD has 21 million dollars in the bank and those students paying that money are not burdened as much as the Marshall students that contribute over 6 million to the Marshall budget.

each FIU student is paying $381 a year in student fees (based off 55,000)
each Marshall student is paying $471 a year in student fees (based off 13,300)

Can you provide a link to student fees payed by Marshall and FIU? Fees can cover a lot of different items and I would like to see a breakdown of how much of the fees go directly to support the schools athletic programs.

FIU fees info. FIU info on fees are direct, so $20 per credit hour for maintaining student gym, intramural facilities and AD support.

Marshall list a standard university per credit hour fee. No breakdown of these monies but this article from your beatwriter a few years ago shed some light on the athletics fee portion of the university fees.
Quote:Last fiscal year, according to financial numbers reported to the NCAA, the student auxiliary fee ($339 per semester) generated $4.24 million for athletics, with another $7.44 million coming as direct university support. A recent USA Today report showed a higher number under "school funds," but Steele (Associate AD) said much of the $2.8 million discrepancy is related to categories where no money changes hands, such as facility depreciation.

4.24M / 339 = 12.5k students, which appears to be inline with your 2012 FTE head count.

Assuming the university fees have stayed the same since 2012, then $339 of the $705 is for athletics (using 15 credit hours) or $339 of $564 is for athletics (using 12 credit hours). Tuition and fees have increased at Marshall since 2012 so the amount going to athletics should have also increased.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2018 08:00 AM by FIU4Ever.)
07-01-2018 07:59 AM
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Flat Tire 2 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
(07-01-2018 07:59 AM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  
(07-01-2018 06:44 AM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 02:24 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 01:46 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 01:37 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  Might not give you the total picture of the health of AD but that statement has some truth to it. I would love to see what each CUSA school reeled in as self generated revenue i.e. ticket sales, sponsorships, donations etc. I don't know if anyone compiles that data but that would be very helpful.

Certainly not everything but if fans and donors are not actively investing and an AD is falsely propped up by state money and high student fees, that’s not a good long term situation. Jmho

You can look at it that way but FIU has a budget that is more healthy than Marshall's. Even with low ticket sales and over 21 million in student fees....

FIU has tons of room to grow

On July 1st FIU's AD has 21 million dollars in the bank and those students paying that money are not burdened as much as the Marshall students that contribute over 6 million to the Marshall budget.

each FIU student is paying $381 a year in student fees (based off 55,000)
each Marshall student is paying $471 a year in student fees (based off 13,300)

Can you provide a link to student fees payed by Marshall and FIU? Fees can cover a lot of different items and I would like to see a breakdown of how much of the fees go directly to support the schools athletic programs.

FIU fees info. FIU info on fees are direct, so $20 per credit hour for maintaining student gym, intramural facilities and AD support.

Marshall list a standard university per credit hour fee. No breakdown of these monies but this article from your beatwriter a few years ago shed some light on the athletics fee portion of the university fees.
Quote:Last fiscal year, according to financial numbers reported to the NCAA, the student auxiliary fee ($339 per semester) generated $4.24 million for athletics, with another $7.44 million coming as direct university support. A recent USA Today report showed a higher number under "school funds," but Steele (Associate AD) said much of the $2.8 million discrepancy is related to categories where no money changes hands, such as facility depreciation.

4.24M / 339 = 12.5k students, which appears to be inline with your 2012 FTE head count.

Assuming the university fees have stayed the same since 2012, then $339 of the $705 is for athletics (using 15 credit hours) or $339 of $564 is for athletics (using 12 credit hours). Tuition and fees have increased at Marshall since 2012 so the amount going to athletics should have also increased.

Like you stated, you are "assuming" what the Marshall athletic fee is based on piecing together some numbers. The newspaper article states that 46% of the MU athletic budget is from subsidies, which could involved using foundation money, waiving scholarships; athletic fees and other items. I have looked at the Marshall links and it doesn't list a breakdown of the fees, it just states the there is a $561 University fee which usually covers health care; Rec center and intramural sports ; cultural events, and other numerous items.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2018 08:33 AM by Flat Tire 2.)
07-01-2018 08:21 AM
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FIU4Ever Offline
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Post: #53
RE: USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
(07-01-2018 08:21 AM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote:  
(07-01-2018 07:59 AM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  
(07-01-2018 06:44 AM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 02:24 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 01:46 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  Certainly not everything but if fans and donors are not actively investing and an AD is falsely propped up by state money and high student fees, that’s not a good long term situation. Jmho

You can look at it that way but FIU has a budget that is more healthy than Marshall's. Even with low ticket sales and over 21 million in student fees....

FIU has tons of room to grow

On July 1st FIU's AD has 21 million dollars in the bank and those students paying that money are not burdened as much as the Marshall students that contribute over 6 million to the Marshall budget.

each FIU student is paying $381 a year in student fees (based off 55,000)
each Marshall student is paying $471 a year in student fees (based off 13,300)

Can you provide a link to student fees payed by Marshall and FIU? Fees can cover a lot of different items and I would like to see a breakdown of how much of the fees go directly to support the schools athletic programs.

FIU fees info. FIU info on fees are direct, so $20 per credit hour for maintaining student gym, intramural facilities and AD support.

Marshall list a standard university per credit hour fee. No breakdown of these monies but this article from your beatwriter a few years ago shed some light on the athletics fee portion of the university fees.
Quote:Last fiscal year, according to financial numbers reported to the NCAA, the student auxiliary fee ($339 per semester) generated $4.24 million for athletics, with another $7.44 million coming as direct university support. A recent USA Today report showed a higher number under "school funds," but Steele (Associate AD) said much of the $2.8 million discrepancy is related to categories where no money changes hands, such as facility depreciation.

4.24M / 339 = 12.5k students, which appears to be inline with your 2012 FTE head count.

Assuming the university fees have stayed the same since 2012, then $339 of the $705 is for athletics (using 15 credit hours) or $339 of $564 is for athletics (using 12 credit hours). Tuition and fees have increased at Marshall since 2012 so the amount going to athletics should have also increased.

Like you stated, you are "assuming" what the Marshall athletic fee is based on piecing together some numbers. The newspaper article states that 46% of the MU athletic budget is from subsidies, that could involved using foundation money, waiving scholarships; athletic fees and other items. I have looked at the Marshall links and it doesn't list a breakdown, just states the there is a $561 University fee which usually covers health care; Rec center and intramural sports ; cultural events, and other numerous items.

Actually, the article states $4.24M came from student fees. Those numbers were from Marshall, not USA Today as the Assoc. AD was explaining the difference between the two sets of numbers. $339 (per semester) x 2 (semesters) x 12.5k (students) is $8.475M for the year. Half of the fees went to athletics. If you got facts that state otherwise, please present them.
07-01-2018 08:44 AM
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SVHerd Online
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Post: #54
RE: USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
Obviously as has been pointed out, Marshall’s room for growth is severely limited. I do know there is a major fundraising plan in the works a new baseball stadium and upgrades to the Henderson Center and our tennis complex. All done with private funds. We’ll see how that goes.

Hell, maybe in 10 years we’ll be D2 and some of you guys may be in the AAC or better.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2018 09:24 AM by SVHerd.)
07-01-2018 09:23 AM
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WKUYG Away
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RE: USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
(07-01-2018 06:44 AM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 02:24 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 01:46 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 01:37 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 09:43 AM)SVHerd Wrote:  Yep, fan generated revenue tells you everything you need to know about the overall health of an athletic program. You can be subsidized out the ass and still be in debt and not winning titles.

Might not give you the total picture of the health of AD but that statement has some truth to it. I would love to see what each CUSA school reeled in as self generated revenue i.e. ticket sales, sponsorships, donations etc. I don't know if anyone compiles that data but that would be very helpful.

Certainly not everything but if fans and donors are not actively investing and an AD is falsely propped up by state money and high student fees, that’s not a good long term situation. Jmho

You can look at it that way but FIU has a budget that is more healthy than Marshall's. Even with low ticket sales and over 21 million in student fees....

FIU has tons of room to grow

On July 1st FIU's AD has 21 million dollars in the bank and those students paying that money are not burdened as much as the Marshall students that contribute over 6 million to the Marshall budget.

each FIU student is paying $381 a year in student fees (based off 55,000)
each Marshall student is paying $471 a year in student fees (based off 13,300)

Can you provide a link to student fees payed by Marshall and FIU? Fees can cover a lot of different items and I would like to see a breakdown of how much of the fees go directly to support the schools athletic programs.

Since we are going by the numbers from USA Today I used simple math to figure out both....

total amount of student fees/students

Marshall's listed student fees of $6,267,660 and enrollment of 13,300. The enrollment number could be off by a 100 or so because I used google to get a quick answer. But that number is close

Same goes for FIU
07-01-2018 10:08 AM
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RE: USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
(06-30-2018 03:11 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 02:48 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 02:24 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 01:46 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 01:37 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  Might not give you the total picture of the health of AD but that statement has some truth to it. I would love to see what each CUSA school reeled in as self generated revenue i.e. ticket sales, sponsorships, donations etc. I don't know if anyone compiles that data but that would be very helpful.

Certainly not everything but if fans and donors are not actively investing and an AD is falsely propped up by state money and high student fees, that’s not a good long term situation. Jmho

You can look at it that way but FIU has a budget that is more healthy than Marshall's. Even with low ticket sales and over 21 million in student fees....

FIU has tons of room to grow

On July 1st FIU's AD has 21 million dollars in the bank and those students paying that money are not burdened as much as the Marshall students that contribute over 6 million to the Marshall budget.

each FIU student is paying $381 a year in student fees (based off 55,000)
each Marshall student is paying $471 a year in student fees (based off 13,300)

If FIU added another $90 to their student fees and caught up with Marshall. That adds right at 5 million more a year to the FIU budget. That is 1.2x the amount Marshall is getting on tickets sold.

FIU is expecting enrollment numbers to reach 58,000 (3000 more than today) by 2020. That 3000 increase adds another 1.1 million to their AD budget

Below came from Google:

The 2018 undergraduate tuition & fees of Florida International University are $6,556 for Florida residents

According to https://www.marshall.edu/tuition/ it cost a Marshall student $4,064 Per Semester Tuition for a Resident of WV. $8128 a year for a Resident of WV.

In the last 7 years Marshall has been in the mid to high 3 million mark on dollars off tickets sold. So basically Marshall has been stable but without any major growth. In those years Marshall had a run of 10, 13 and 10 wins and a conference championship... with very little growth on tickets sold .

This has nothing to do with me being a Western fan. Hell I pointed out the problems Western was going to have, well over 2 years ago. I knew Western (like most of our schools) are a state cut or a enrollment decrease away from cutting millions from our budget.

This is just a look at how student fees are the most stable stream of income in most schools budget. How a school without much tickets sold but a large enrollment is actually the stable school when it comes to a budget and growth

I can appreciate all that, but Marshall will never prop up its athletic budget on the backs of the students as some schools do. Is that suicide, maybe, but that’s their goal and I think things would have to be pretty dire to change that stance. Of course it would help all our schools if we had a better media package but that ship has sailed and ain’t coming back.

The fact that Marshall is in the most depressed area of any league school doesn’t help.


the % don't matter

Each Marshall student is paying $90 more each year per-student for sports than a FIU student. So actually Marshall is propping up its athletic budget on the backs of the students.

FIU just has more students

I 100% agree with your last sentence and that is one reason Marshall's student enrollment has very little room for growth. And Marshall is getting close to a top end on tuition at over $8,000 a year. Western is in worse shape than Marshall on that front even with Western's larger enrollment numbers.....

there's only so many dollars you can squeeze out of a person before it's tips the scales....decrease enrollment. Hell even there FIU is beating Marshall and Western. FIU is a bargain at $6,556 year. Western just had a 4% tuition increase and it cost over 10k a year....

schools in depressed areas with high tuition can not grow

I've seen the fan support Marshall has, football and basketball. I can't say anything negative about it. Great fans! But just like all of us their is a ceiling to the dollars we will get from those fans....

Marshall has a increase in dollars out tickets sold right after moving to CUSA then a drop for two years. Marshall hires a new football coach and tickets sold increases again. It's remained in that mid to upper 3 million range for 7 seasons

So unless there's another conference move in Marshall's future....dollars off tickets sold has some room to grow but not enough to matter.

Of course that's just my opinion, based off the numbers shown over a large period of years. And as you pointed out Marshall is located in one of the most depressed area of all the CUSA schools. Limited amount of recreation dollars to go around.

May I copy & paste this on SBC thread but replace FIU -> Georgia State and Marshall -> Georgia Southern/App State? It will save a whole lot of effort about this time of every freakin offseason when this USA Today report is published.....
Like FIU, other G5 fans (especially proud football schools such as Marshall, App and GS) love to point out the high % allocated funds (student fees) of large enrollment schools like Georgia State that claims $20mil annually from student fees alone, but this is only due to 50k+ students paying toward athletics....individual students actually pay much less than their counterparts at smaller schools
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2018 10:37 AM by GSUALUM17.)
07-01-2018 10:32 AM
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herdfan129 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
Who makes more on ticket sales? Marshall or FIU?
07-01-2018 03:21 PM
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FIU4Ever Offline
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RE: USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
(07-01-2018 03:21 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  Who makes more on ticket sales? Marshall or FIU?

Marshall, by a country mile. I hope FIU gets to that kind of ticket sale in the near future.

But when a Herd fan gets on his soapbox and states "an AD is falsely propped up by state money and high student fees, that’s not a good long term situation" when:

1) FIU student fees are less than Marshall's (see previous posts)
2) FIU AD takes less funds from state/University general funds ($2.9M for FIU vs $8M for Marshall)

the statement is a teeny bit hypocritical.
07-01-2018 03:44 PM
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eager eagle Offline
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RE: USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
(07-01-2018 03:44 PM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  
(07-01-2018 03:21 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  Who makes more on ticket sales? Marshall or FIU?

Marshall, by a country mile. I hope FIU gets to that kind of ticket sale in the near future.

But when a Herd fan gets on his soapbox and states "an AD is falsely propped up by state money and high student fees, that’s not a good long term situation" when:

1) FIU student fees are less than Marshall's (see previous posts)
2) FIU AD takes less funds from state/University general funds ($2.9M for FIU vs $8M for Marshall)

the statement is a teeny bit hypocritical.

Ticket sales gives an unadulterated picture of the overall health and popularity of a program. IF they cant sell tickets then the program is in deep trouble as taxpayers are becoming less and less willing to take money out of their pockets to support a program that is of no interest to them and has few fans.
07-01-2018 08:48 PM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #60
RE: USA Today released athletic finances for 2016-17
(07-01-2018 08:48 PM)eager eagle Wrote:  
(07-01-2018 03:44 PM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  
(07-01-2018 03:21 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  Who makes more on ticket sales? Marshall or FIU?

Marshall, by a country mile. I hope FIU gets to that kind of ticket sale in the near future.

But when a Herd fan gets on his soapbox and states "an AD is falsely propped up by state money and high student fees, that’s not a good long term situation" when:

1) FIU student fees are less than Marshall's (see previous posts)
2) FIU AD takes less funds from state/University general funds ($2.9M for FIU vs $8M for Marshall)

the statement is a teeny bit hypocritical.

Ticket sales gives an unadulterated picture of the overall health and popularity of a program. IF they cant sell tickets then the program is in deep trouble as taxpayers are becoming less and less willing to take money out of their pockets to support a program that is of no interest to them and has few fans.

Wrong in so many ways.......everyone is explained above. But let me try this again just for you.

S. Miss would have to sell 7x the amount of ticket dollars (impossible. Impossible to even double that number of 3,044,981) just to get the amount of dollars FIU gets at the 1st of July....EVERY YEAR without doing anything.

It's really simple math, I don't get why you can't understand it? And no tax dollars are involved. More context....that's only $2,888,154 short of S. Miss's whole AD Budget.

It's something S. Miss, Western, Marshall and a lot more in CUSA, cant compete with. Not even if we all sellout our FB stadiums every game and our basketball arenas every game. It's shittty but nothing we can do about it...growth is just not there.

One other example if S.Miss and FIU both went 0-12 for the next 3 seasons what do you think ticket sales would look like at S. Miss? FIU would most likely see a increase from dollars on student fees (high enrollment numbers) even going 0-36
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2018 10:33 PM by WKUYG.)
07-01-2018 09:12 PM
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