I can’t think of one recent instance of those 3 leagues getting a break outside of Tulsa. Highest RPI’s not to make the Tournament are a who’s-who of MVC/A10/MWC/CAA/Saint Mary’s.

Western was one of the last MAC schools to receive an at large bid in 1998..Any others after this date??????

(06-23-2018 10:29 AM)broncojohnny Wrote:  Western was one of the last MAC schools to receive an at large bid in 1998..Any others after this date??????

Miami the next season, we lost the championship but still got a bid and made the Sweet 16 with Wally. That was the most recent time, WMU in 1998 is the only non-Miami team from the MAC to get in at-large.

At the end of the day conferences don't get bids, programs do. Gonzaga is Gonzaga so even if they lose their tourney championship they're fine even if the bottom half of the WCC is atrocious. With us having to support FBS football we're realistically never going to be able to be strong enough to where a MAC conference schedule is enough to convince anyone that we should get two bids on that alone; however, it does make it easier if one of our programs starts making noise in non-conference play and aren't weighed down by a bunch of bad teams on their schedule throughout the winter. UB seems to be making strides in this area.

A lot of the problem for the MAC is competition for basketball players from the MVC and the Horizon League which are both quality leagues.

Both have taken some hits in realignment. That has dropped the MVC and Horizon from a level above the MAC to more even with the MAC. But they are still serious competition. MVC is still a conference that a program can join and watch its recruiting improve as evidenced by Loyola.

The answer in my opinion is to hybrid and bring in non-football schools in the Midwest to make the MAC the undisputed premier mid major conference. It might take 6 programs to do it but I think it would be worth it.

On the resource issue, there is a ceiling in football that we are hitting our heads against so I don't think you'll continue to see an acceleration of resources there.

Basketball takes fewer resources but ultimately even in that sport the most the MAC could be is a 3 bid league like the A10 is and produce single digit seed NCAA teams. Coaches will still be lost to power schools ect.

More schools in the MAC would be more fun. More competition.

Milwaukee
IL-Chicago
Illinois St.
St. Louis
Missouri St.
UM-Kansas City

Could a package like that be put together to dwarf what is left of the MVC and Horizon League? 20 game schedule...play everyone once with the top 3 meeting for a second round robin.

1-3
4-6
7-9
10-12
13-15
16-18

Think about the amount of TV an 18 team MAC like this would command. The size of the alumni bases involved.

If you added in basketball you don't need to give up a cut of the CFP money to the basketball additions like you would in football.

Horizon was 26th in RPI last year. They’re no longer a quality league.

Wright State, Northern Kentucky, Oakland, and Detroit Mercy have the quality coaches to be quality programs. So those 4 programs will be hard to beat out for recruits.

Youngstown is perpetually hopeless and IUPUI/UWM/UWGB have divebombed and show no signs of digging out.

MAC will have 4 teams with an obvious shot an at large next season; Buffalo, EMU, Toledo and Ball St should all have top100 type teams. Still, you'd need a couple things to happen. First, at least a couple of those 4 would need to have good non-conf seasons and beat an NCAA or bubble team or two. Then, you'd need one of those teams to lose in the MAC tourney (probably after winning the league). The fact that Buffalo beat Arizona last year will help a bit. I know EMU has a gang of top notch road games scheduled non conf and Buffalo looks like they will have a good schedule. Toledo has some good mid majors on the schedule but no word yet on any neutral court tourneys or P5 road games. Ball St usually schedules tough. Success of Loyola should help a little, but selection committee gives few breaks to teams outside the power conferences. Remember, losses against high level competition don't hurt P5 teams' resume. As long as they have some quality wins those tough losses will be overlooked. Mid majors need both to schedule and win some tough non conf games, and avoid any bad losses (which include losing on the road to anyone lesser than the top couple teams in your league).

I really don’t see any evidence that what teams did the previous season has any effect at all on selection. When has it ever mattered and helped a team, especially a mid-major, who otherwise would have been left out? I really don’t think it helps majors either because they have other factors that get them over the hump, but that’s another discussion.

(06-24-2018 08:09 PM)axeme Wrote:  I really don’t see any evidence that what teams did the previous season has any effect at all on selection. When has it ever mattered and helped a team, especially a mid-major, who otherwise would have been left out? I really don’t think it helps majors either because they have other factors that get them over the hump, but that’s another discussion.

I agree. Other than a token Jr. all American coming back. No one cares who mid majors bring back from the year before.

(06-24-2018 07:00 PM)pono Wrote:  MAC will have 4 teams with an obvious shot an at large next season; Buffalo, EMU, Toledo and Ball St should all have top100 type teams. Still, you'd need a couple things to happen. First, at least a couple of those 4 would need to have good non-conf seasons and beat an NCAA or bubble team or two. Then, you'd need one of those teams to lose in the MAC tourney (probably after winning the league). The fact that Buffalo beat Arizona last year will help a bit. I know EMU has a gang of top notch road games scheduled non conf and Buffalo looks like they will have a good schedule. Toledo has some good mid majors on the schedule but no word yet on any neutral court tourneys or P5 road games. Ball St usually schedules tough. Success of Loyola should help a little, but selection committee gives few breaks to teams outside the power conferences. Remember, losses against high level competition don't hurt P5 teams' resume. As long as they have some quality wins those tough losses will be overlooked. Mid majors need both to schedule and win some tough non conf games, and avoid any bad losses (which include losing on the road to anyone lesser than the top couple teams in your league).

Eventually I'm sure the MAC will get a second team in.

But is that going to change the annual 1 bidness of the MAC? I doubt it.

(06-23-2018 02:13 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  A lot of the problem for the MAC is competition for basketball players from the MVC and the Horizon League which are both quality leagues.

Both have taken some hits in realignment. That has dropped the MVC and Horizon from a level above the MAC to more even with the MAC. But they are still serious competition. MVC is still a conference that a program can join and watch its recruiting improve as evidenced by Loyola.

The answer in my opinion is to hybrid and bring in non-football schools in the Midwest to make the MAC the undisputed premier mid major conference. It might take 6 programs to do it but I think it would be worth it.

On the resource issue, there is a ceiling in football that we are hitting our heads against so I don't think you'll continue to see an acceleration of resources there.

Basketball takes fewer resources but ultimately even in that sport the most the MAC could be is a 3 bid league like the A10 is and produce single digit seed NCAA teams. Coaches will still be lost to power schools ect.

More schools in the MAC would be more fun. More competition.

Milwaukee
IL-Chicago
Illinois St.
St. Louis
Missouri St.
UM-Kansas City

Could a package like that be put together to dwarf what is left of the MVC and Horizon League? 20 game schedule...play everyone once with the top 3 meeting for a second round robin.

1-3
4-6
7-9
10-12
13-15
16-18

Think about the amount of TV an 18 team MAC like this would command. The size of the alumni bases involved.

No Thanks.

Add the entire Missouri Valley to the MAC and that would probably do it for us.

MAC can't even get an NIT bid much less two in NCAA tourney.