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Post: #21
RE: Most popular channels are free
(06-23-2018 02:20 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  In a different train of thought, what would a future of live sporting events on tv look like basically without built-in TV breaks for ads (Netflix for Sports sort of thing)? What would the perspective be of those watching from the stands?

Less time outs? Less trips to the mound? Shorter time periods to get the offense/defense switches in? Shorter time periods for exchange of sides in tennis?

Would shorter 10, 15, 20 second commercials air for the natural breaks in the game on a portion of the screen like something we see now with Tennis Channel for some of their commercials?

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Neil

You're talking science fiction. That scenario doesn't exist and won't in the future.
06-23-2018 09:20 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Most popular channels are free
(06-23-2018 06:37 PM)Go College Sports Wrote:  
(06-23-2018 05:29 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I don’t think the comparison should be to the price of a sports ticket, but rather the generally very unrealistic expectations of what a la carte sports channels with ESPN’s content would cost. People very wrongly assume that the per subscriber basic cable fee has any relation to what that channel would cost a la carte. For ESPN to get the revenue that it has now from basic cable in an a la carte model that has HBO-like subscriber numbers, it’s likely in the $40-$50 per month range at a *minimum* (as it has to account for the fact that it will have fewer subscribers and correspondingly lower ad rates).

People simply don’t truly grasp the costs of an a la carte model long-term because we’re in this temporarily highly competitive environment where lots of companies are trying to undercut each other on streaming pricing where they’re trading growth for profits as of now. Those price arbitrage situations aren’t going to last forever. Eventually, companies like Netflix will need to deliver high profits instead of just growth to Wall Street... and these subscription prices will go up to where we’ll likely pay more for less content compared to cable. That’s especially going to be true for sports fans more than any other group.

This also assumes that ESPN's revenue and profits are a fixed variable. I agree that if ESPN goes to a subscriber/OTT format, it wouldn't be at an $8/mo price point. But when consumers are conditioned to the $10-15/month fee for similar services, $50 per month is going to be an incredibly tough sell, even for a die-hard sports fan, since that price point doesn't get you the World Cup, EPL, NHL, key NBA (playoff) games, the Olympics, the Big East, key Big Ten/Pac-12/Big XII games, MLB playoffs, etc. More likely they - and all sports broadcasters - would have to do some belt tightening on rights contracts rather than just throw ever increasing sums at the leagues.

ESPN will maximize their revenue, but the total will be less than before. If they could equalize their revenue, they would be charging the higher prices now.
06-23-2018 09:22 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Most popular channels are free
(06-23-2018 06:37 PM)Go College Sports Wrote:  
(06-23-2018 05:29 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I don’t think the comparison should be to the price of a sports ticket, but rather the generally very unrealistic expectations of what a la carte sports channels with ESPN’s content would cost. People very wrongly assume that the per subscriber basic cable fee has any relation to what that channel would cost a la carte. For ESPN to get the revenue that it has now from basic cable in an a la carte model that has HBO-like subscriber numbers, it’s likely in the $40-$50 per month range at a *minimum* (as it has to account for the fact that it will have fewer subscribers and correspondingly lower ad rates).

People simply don’t truly grasp the costs of an a la carte model long-term because we’re in this temporarily highly competitive environment where lots of companies are trying to undercut each other on streaming pricing where they’re trading growth for profits as of now. Those price arbitrage situations aren’t going to last forever. Eventually, companies like Netflix will need to deliver high profits instead of just growth to Wall Street... and these subscription prices will go up to where we’ll likely pay more for less content compared to cable. That’s especially going to be true for sports fans more than any other group.

This also assumes that ESPN's revenue and profits are a fixed variable. I agree that if ESPN goes to a subscriber/OTT format, it wouldn't be at an $8/mo price point. But when consumers are conditioned to the $10-15/month fee for similar services, $50 per month is going to be an incredibly tough sell, even for a die-hard sports fan, since that price point doesn't get you the World Cup, EPL, NHL, key NBA (playoff) games, the Olympics, the Big East, key Big Ten/Pac-12/Big XII games, MLB playoffs, etc. More likely they - and all sports broadcasters - would have to do some belt tightening on rights contracts rather than just throw ever increasing sums at the leagues.

Yep, television is merely an option, a form of entertainment.

If the cost of ESPN got too high, I likely would not pay it and would go without it. It is just not that important to me to have it.

I don't watch the things I have highlighted above now, anyway.

If I miss some ND basketball or baseball games because of it, so it goes. I would do without them. I did before and life was good. I would use internet radio and Gametracker options for those.

(The same goes for the coming ACC Network. I will subscribe, but am only doing so for ND games, not other ACC schools. If the cost kept going up, I would cancel).

If NBC started charging and kept raising the price, I might cancel it, too.

I would try to listen to ND home football games on the radio like I used to do in the Seventies or just go back to reading about the games and checking the box scores.

It isn't affordability per se, it is just "Is my level of interest worth paying this price"? There is a price I am not willing to pay, even if I could well afford it.

I am not willing to allow cable or satellite or television entities continue to extort my fan interest in an never ending climb in rates.

Life would go on just fine for me if all sports TV went away. I would just read more books. I read more than watch TV as it is.

I got rid of DirecTV. I mostly watch Netfilx now instead of the multiple channels I used to have. I have Sling but watch almost no live or network programming. If Sling went up too high, I would get rid of it, too.

IF Netflix goes too high, out it goes too. Television itself is something that I could dispense with if necessary.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2018 09:48 AM by TerryD.)
06-24-2018 09:26 AM
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CoastalJuan Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Most popular channels are free
(06-22-2018 02:16 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Not really a fair comparison. Would you prefer to pay $3 per glass for beer X, or drink as much beer Y as you want for free? How much of the "popularity" is just due to the price?

The market dictates. Let's say the Beer Y company puts an ad on the bottle, sells your personal info to advertising companies for cash (just examples), or any other method, but is still able to sustain itself AND provide beer free to you? They are still in direct competition with Beer X and, in this situation, Beer Y is winning.
08-22-2018 01:36 PM
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goodknightfl Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Most popular channels are free
(06-22-2018 08:02 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  I only watch the locals for local news and then sporting events on them. Rest of the time I'm normally on ESPN, FS1, or Fox Sports Midwest/Kansas City.

U really need to get a life...03-lmfao
08-23-2018 07:23 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Most popular channels are free
(06-23-2018 05:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Eh, the ballplayers would just spit and scratch and bluff throws to third and first for a few extra minutes a game. There would be more reviews in football and more fouls called in hoops. Where there are a few extra minutes the old "nature abhors a vacuum" would take over.

My dad and other old-timers (70+) tell me that when they were kids baseball games were a LOT shorter than today, most lasted between just 2 and 2 1/2 hours, not the 3 hour + marathons of today.

Wonder if it's possible to go back to that?
08-23-2018 08:20 AM
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Post: #27
RE: Most popular channels are free
(08-23-2018 08:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-23-2018 05:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Eh, the ballplayers would just spit and scratch and bluff throws to third and first for a few extra minutes a game. There would be more reviews in football and more fouls called in hoops. Where there are a few extra minutes the old "nature abhors a vacuum" would take over.

My dad and other old-timers (70+) tell me that when they were kids baseball games were a LOT shorter than today, most lasted between just 2 and 2 1/2 hours, not the 3 hour + marathons of today.

Wonder if it's possible to go back to that?

Yeah.
Cut the long ad break after each third out. Cut a couple pitcher spots off the roster so managers don't change pitchers as often. Umpires need to keep everyone moving.
08-23-2018 09:31 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Most popular channels are free
(06-23-2018 11:57 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-23-2018 05:29 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I don’t think the comparison should be to the price of a sports ticket, but rather the generally very unrealistic expectations of what a la carte sports channels with ESPN’s content would cost. People very wrongly assume that the per subscriber basic cable fee has any relation to what that channel would cost a la carte. For ESPN to get the revenue that it has now from basic cable in an a la carte model that has HBO-like subscriber numbers, it’s likely in the $40-$50 per month range at a *minimum* (as it has to account for the fact that it will have fewer subscribers and correspondingly lower ad rates).

People simply don’t truly grasp the costs of an a la carte model long-term because we’re in this temporarily highly competitive environment where lots of companies are trying to undercut each other on streaming pricing where they’re trading growth for profits as of now. Those price arbitrage situations aren’t going to last forever. Eventually, companies like Netflix will need to deliver high profits instead of just growth to Wall Street... and these subscription prices will go up to where we’ll likely pay more for less content compared to cable. That’s especially going to be true for sports fans more than any other group.
I agree with your more accurate business explanation Frank, but you have to consider your audience. The moment you use price arbitrage and a la carte in connection to an explanation of how the current market is in an emerging competition for the consumer Joe Q public tunes out, and continues to ride the current sentiment that cable is too high. Make Joe Q actually stop and consider what he gets in his own home versus what he would actually have to spend going to an event and he gets it.

If the purpose is to persuade your audience that a current point of view is simply inaccurate you need to contextualize in a manner blatantly familiar to the public. For what my wife and I pay for two reasonably located tickets to Auburn football games we could buy a 54" HD TV, a home kegerator, see every game comfortably, and stock the noshing snacks we love for the whole season and get not only football, but all 12 months of sports and have money leftover. And all of that is at the UVerse bundle rate for optimum sports viewing.

People relate to that. But they don't stop and consider it at the work water cooler when the guys are woofing about cable prices. So when you compare ways to save on your cable you are focusing on a minor expense in your life while ignoring the much larger costs that you just attribute to your lifestyle.

Outside of lodging, food, and medical insurance everything else is really a lifestyle choice.

But watching a sporting event on TV isn't the alternative to attending the game in person. It's the alternative to watching something different on TV. Attending a game in person is an alternative to going to the theater, or a concert, not to watching something - anything - on TV.
08-23-2018 08:48 PM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Most popular channels are free
(06-22-2018 07:26 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(06-22-2018 12:51 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Tivo data shows OTA networks are the most popular
http://time.com/money/4700663/cable-pric...reddit.com

Good article. One thing that I found interesting is that it says 50% of cable subscribers would love to say the $8/month that ESPN/2 costs and would be willing to drop it and pocket the money. One would assume that the other 50% that wouldn't, would switch providers in a heartbeat. Disney's position is only going to get stronger once they get control of FX, FXX, and FXM. Getting these networks will allow them to better compete with Turner and Comcast in the area of general entertainment as Disney does not currently have a general entertainment network. This will only increase Disney/ESPN's bundling power.
Disney is spending 50 million dollars to provide it's 80,000 hourly employees free college. No strings attached. They must be drowning in profits.
08-23-2018 11:50 PM
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gulfcoastgal Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Most popular channels are free
Bit of a tangent, but FedEx is doing the same thing for their hub employees via University of Memphis online programs...first in Memphis then it rolls out to other hubs. Must be a new thing (for company wide hourly employees). Is Disney partnering with a particular school?
(This post was last modified: 08-24-2018 08:17 AM by gulfcoastgal.)
08-24-2018 06:30 AM
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Post: #31
RE: Most popular channels are free
(08-24-2018 06:30 AM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  Bit of a tangent, but FedEx is doing the same thing for their hub employees via University of Memphis online programs...first in Memphis then it rolls out to other hubs. Must be a new thing (for company wide hourly employees). Is Disney partnering with a particular school?

I think Starbucks and Chick-Fil-A have programs to cover at least some college expense as well.

Interesting because 20 years ago, private employers didn't offer such a benefit but nearly all state and many local governments offered the programs.

The state and local governments have since either eliminated, restricted to specific job related programs, capped participation, or required some payback if the person left the employer within a certain time, to save money and because it was becoming common for people to get the degree or certification and quickly leave for a better job.

I suspect the private employers know they will lose people who gain a degree or certification through the program but are willing to accept that in order to retain people longer while they work on the program and some people will stick just because they want to start the program "some day". My guess is they are expecting to reduce current turnover and not have to invest more in wages as labor supplies dry up.
(This post was last modified: 08-24-2018 08:59 AM by arkstfan.)
08-24-2018 08:57 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Most popular channels are free
(08-24-2018 08:57 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(08-24-2018 06:30 AM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  Bit of a tangent, but FedEx is doing the same thing for their hub employees via University of Memphis online programs...first in Memphis then it rolls out to other hubs. Must be a new thing (for company wide hourly employees). Is Disney partnering with a particular school?

I think Starbucks and Chick-Fil-A have programs to cover at least some college expense as well.

Interesting because 20 years ago, private employers didn't offer such a benefit but nearly all state and many local governments offered the programs.

The state and local governments have since either eliminated, restricted to specific job related programs, capped participation, or required some payback if the person left the employer within a certain time, to save money and because it was becoming common for people to get the degree or certification and quickly leave for a better job.

I suspect the private employers know they will lose people who gain a degree or certification through the program but are willing to accept that in order to retain people longer while they work on the program and some people will stick just because they want to start the program "some day". My guess is they are expecting to reduce current turnover and not have to invest more in wages as labor supplies dry up.

It's part of the ongoing bifurcation of the labor market - if you have skills that are valuable in today's high tech/digital economy, then you have lots of job options and companies will bend over backwards to accommodate you. E.g., my niece is one such person, she works for a digital company here in Baton Rouge. A couple months ago she decided she was sick of BR and said she was moving to Seattle. The company said fine, but please keep working for us, you can do your job remotely from Seattle, so she will. These are the employees being showered with these kinds of benefits.

But the millions of people making $14 an hour aren't.
08-24-2018 09:20 AM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Most popular channels are free
(06-22-2018 02:16 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Not really a fair comparison. Would you prefer to pay $3 per glass for beer X, or drink as much beer Y as you want for free? How much of the "popularity" is just due to the price?

That depends on the beer. I'll pay $10 for a bottle of Goose Island Bourbon County but will not drink Budweiser even if free.
08-26-2018 01:12 PM
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