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2018-19 NBA Thread
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #221
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
The current CBA was supposed to help the "small market" owners because it permits teams to exceed the cap to re-sign their own players -and- permits them to pay their own players more in a new contract than any other team could.

But, that assumed players would prefer any situation with the most money no matter what. With LeBron showing the way during his second run in Cleveland, that's proved to not be the case. Durant left money on the table by leaving OKC, then left $5 to 10 million on the table each year he was with GSW by signing 1-plus-1 deals, and then left $50 million more on the table by signing with Brooklyn instead of taking a supermax deal with the Warriors. KD has given up well over $60 million just for the freedom to pick his situations, while still pocketing more than $100 million (plus endorsements) with a lot more to come.

Also, players can see that the long-term max or supermax deal makes it harder for them to control their own destiny if situations change. Westbrook's contract severely limits his options for finding a new team now that OKC is rebuilding. The Clippers screwed Blake Griffin by trading him to the Pistons months after he signed his max deal; even if he wants to leave Detroit to play for a contender, he probably couldn't find another team to take that contract.

So now, Kawhi and PG-13 have leverage over the Clippers' front office, because they can leave after two years if they don't like the way things are going there. And they're each still making over $30 million each year.
07-10-2019 04:09 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #222
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
the problem is they make the money close enough staying or going that a guy can go like Leonard- 2 years the money difference isn't that much, but then in year 3 can do a new deal and get a lot more money(more than he would have gotten had he stayed in Toronto).

There is literally in this situation almost no difference between Toronto and the Clippers.....
07-10-2019 04:37 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #223
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
(07-10-2019 04:37 PM)stever20 Wrote:  the problem is they make the money close enough staying or going that a guy can go like Leonard- 2 years the money difference isn't that much, but then in year 3 can do a new deal and get a lot more money(more than he would have gotten had he stayed in Toronto).

There is literally in this situation almost no difference between Toronto and the Clippers.....

It's the same money in Kawhi's situation. He could have signed the same 2-plus-1 with Toronto, and likely would have signed that deal with either Toronto or the Lakers if the Clippers hadn't traded for George.

Toronto didn't have all of the "incumbent advantages" in the CBA because Kawhi was there only one season.

Theoretically, you could increase an incumbent team's financial advantage even more, but I doubt it would help. You could let the Bucks give Giannis $200 million more than any other team could give him when he becomes a free agent, instead of the $50 million more that the Warriors could have paid KD over any other team. (IIRC, it would be less than $50 million more for Giannis under the current CBA, because he will have less seniority when he becomes a FA than Durant did this offseason.)

But owners don't want to shell out that much more, especially in a market like Milwaukee where you can't charge as much for tickets, don't make as much for local TV rights, and maybe don't also own an arena that will be a cash machine, like the Warriors' owners do. On top of that, for every Giannis or KD who might be "worth it", you'd have at least half a dozen players like Kemba Walker at the next level down, where the incumbent team passes on the supermax opportunity even at the lower level of financial commitment.
07-10-2019 05:03 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #224
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
(07-10-2019 05:03 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-10-2019 04:37 PM)stever20 Wrote:  the problem is they make the money close enough staying or going that a guy can go like Leonard- 2 years the money difference isn't that much, but then in year 3 can do a new deal and get a lot more money(more than he would have gotten had he stayed in Toronto).

There is literally in this situation almost no difference between Toronto and the Clippers.....

It's the same money in Kawhi's situation. He could have signed the same 2-plus-1 with Toronto, and likely would have signed that deal with either Toronto or the Lakers if the Clippers hadn't traded for George.

Toronto didn't have all of the "incumbent advantages" in the CBA because Kawhi was there only one season.

Theoretically, you could increase an incumbent team's financial advantage even more, but I doubt it would help. You could let the Bucks give Giannis $200 million more than any other team could give him when he becomes a free agent, instead of the $50 million more that the Warriors could have paid KD over any other team. (IIRC, it would be less than $50 million more for Giannis under the current CBA, because he will have less seniority when he becomes a FA than Durant did this offseason.)

But owners don't want to shell out that much more, especially in a market like Milwaukee where you can't charge as much for tickets, don't make as much for local TV rights, and maybe don't also own an arena that will be a cash machine, like the Warriors' owners do. On top of that, for every Giannis or KD who might be "worth it", you'd have at least half a dozen players like Kemba Walker at the next level down, where the incumbent team passes on the supermax opportunity even at the lower level of financial commitment.

NBA free agency can get complicated, but basically Kawhi Leonard by signing this two year deal will be eligible for a 10 year veteran supermax contract. which means a larger percentage of the salary cap or more money. So the max for Kawhi today is $32.7 million, and if he was a ten year veteran as of this season, he would make $38.1 million next season.

Kemba Walker got a four year max from Boston of $141 million for four years. Walker was eligible for a super-max contract from Charlotte that could have paid him as much as $221 million over five years. According to the Charlotte Observer, the Hornets offer was for roughly $160 million over five years — a lower annual salary than his deal with the Celtics by more than $3 million.

Charlotte mismanaged their salary cap and roster. They are paying Nicholas Batum $25.5 million next season. Bismack Biyombo will make $17 million. Marvin Williams will make $15 million. Cody Zeller will make $14.4 million. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist will make $13 million. Terry Rozier will make $19.8 million next season. Over $100 million in salary for six players and not one all-star. Overpaying for role players
put them in a position where they basically could not afford Kemba Walker. Even with Walker, they are not really a playoff team.
07-11-2019 11:02 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #225
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
Westbrook to the Rockets, CP3 going back the other way to OKC.

Wonder if OKC will now try to move out CP3.

Quote:The Oklahoma City Thunder have agreed to a blockbuster trade to send Russell Westbrook to the Houston Rockets to reunite him with James Harden, league sources told ESPN.

The Rockets will send guard Chris Paul, two protected first-round picks (2024 and 2026) and two pick swaps (2021 and 2025) to the Thunder, league sources told ESPN.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2717...ckets-paul

Seems like only yesterday that the Thunder had all four of these guys...
[Image: j0600go19lyoku4uxmmp.jpg]
(This post was last modified: 07-11-2019 08:53 PM by Wedge.)
07-11-2019 08:36 PM
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Post: #226
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
(07-11-2019 08:36 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Westbrook to the Rockets, CP3 going back the other way to OKC.

Wonder if OKC will now try to move out CP3.

Quote:The Oklahoma City Thunder have agreed to a blockbuster trade to send Russell Westbrook to the Houston Rockets to reunite him with James Harden, league sources told ESPN.

The Rockets will send guard Chris Paul, two protected first-round picks (2024 and 2026) and two pick swaps (2021 and 2025) to the Thunder, league sources told ESPN.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2717...ckets-paul

Seems like only yesterday that the Thunder had all four of these guys...
[Image: j0600go19lyoku4uxmmp.jpg]

We better. Two great moves so far from Presti. As soon as PG said he wanted to be traded to the Clippers, Presti needed to make sure he maximized the return and then move on from Russ. Unfortunately, we had to take on CP3, but hopefully he'll be able to flip him for assets.
07-12-2019 12:07 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #227
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
Hopefully this get people to realize that Daryl Morey is not the genius the media praises him as. The CP3 deal was horrible and the Westbrook trade will prove the same. Going after top names does not make a team.
07-12-2019 03:00 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #228
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
I do think the CP3 deal was terrible, but even with that, the only team that beat them the last 2 years was an all time dynasty, and they were really close to them. And Westbrook is better than CP3 is right now. And that all time dynasty is broken up now.

I think Hardin will be a lot fresher now going into playoffs than he has been- remember last 2 years CP3 missed 24 games both seasons. Westbrook has missed 14 games in the last 4 years COMBINED....
07-12-2019 03:13 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #229
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
(07-12-2019 03:00 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  Hopefully this get people to realize that Daryl Morey is not the genius the media praises him as. The CP3 deal was horrible and the Westbrook trade will prove the same. Going after top names does not make a team.

I suspect the driving force behind the Westbrook acquisition was Fertitta.

For OKC, as long as they can unload Paul, they've done as well as they can do under the circumstances. Though even if they keep all of those first round picks, it will be impossible to come close to duplicating the Durant-Westbrook-Harden trifecta of draft picks from way back when.
07-12-2019 05:05 PM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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Post: #230
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
(07-12-2019 03:13 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I do think the CP3 deal was terrible, but even with that, the only team that beat them the last 2 years was an all time dynasty, and they were really close to them. And Westbrook is better than CP3 is right now. And that all time dynasty is broken up now.

I think Hardin will be a lot fresher now going into playoffs than he has been- remember last 2 years CP3 missed 24 games both seasons. Westbrook has missed 14 games in the last 4 years COMBINED....

IMO Westbrook is not better than CP3. Westbrook can't hit the trey and he's a ball dominant guard. I don't see how this improves the Rockets more than when CP3 was there. This trade reeks of desperation on the part of the Rockets.
07-12-2019 05:40 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #231
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
it's so funny that folks always talk about Russ and not being a good teammate and driving players away, but why doesn't CP3 get the same treatment? Definitely don't think he's an angel at all.....
07-13-2019 02:09 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #232
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
Just as Kawhi and Paul George have the leverage of being able to walk away from the Clippers after two seasons, Anthony Davis has the leverage of being able to walk away from the Lakers after one season. And he's not shy about advertising his leverage.

Quote:By predictably sidestepping a question about his future beyond the upcoming season — “When that time comes around next year, then you can ask me that question and we’ll revisit it,” he said — he acknowledged realities that have to make the Lakers uncomfortable.
https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la...story.html
07-14-2019 01:20 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #233
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
(07-13-2019 02:09 PM)stever20 Wrote:  it's so funny that folks always talk about Russ and not being a good teammate and driving players away, but why doesn't CP3 get the same treatment? Definitely don't think he's an angel at all.....

While I think CP3 is in the same boat as Russ, David Stern screwed Paul’s chance at greatness by blocking the Laker deal. Granted, Kobe might have murdered Paul 60 games into the season...
07-14-2019 12:34 PM
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UofMark Online
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Post: #234
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
The Summer League had many very entertaining games recently, especially those last few bracketed playoff games. They were really getting after it. Lot's of young, hungry talent on display.
07-16-2019 01:34 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #235
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
Steve Kerr, stirring the pot 05-stirthepot about Anthony Davis forcing his way to the Lakers.

He could just as easily have named Paul George.

Quote:"I'm talking more about the Anthony Davis situation," Kerr told The Warriors Insider Podcast. "Where a guy is perfectly healthy and has a couple years left on his deal and says, 'I want to leave.' That's a real problem that the league has to address and that the players have to be careful with.
Quote:"What LeBron [James] did, played out his contract. What Kevin [Durant] did, both when he arrived at Golden State and when he left. You sign contracts, you play them out and you move on. That's how it should be done," Kerr said.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2725...bad-league
07-24-2019 01:32 PM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #236
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
That's gonna hurt Kerr more than the AD's and PG's of the NBA. A comment like that just aligns him with ownership.
07-24-2019 05:49 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #237
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
(07-24-2019 05:49 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  That's gonna hurt Kerr more than the AD's and PG's of the NBA. A comment like that just aligns him with ownership.

Kerr has been management for a long time. He was GM and part-owner of the Suns 12 years ago.

Don't see how the Warriors would be affected by this at all, but I suppose if Giannis forced his way out of Milwaukee and was traded to the Warriors, then Kerr would be a hypocrite. I'm not counting on that scenario, but I think Kerr would not mind the label if that happened.
07-24-2019 06:05 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #238
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
Some more offseason chatter today...

Kevin Durant didn't speak to the Nets head coach or GM, or visit the Nets' facility, before announcing he would sign with them.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2728...call-shots
Quote:Nets coach Kenny Atkinson paced in general manager Sean Marks' office, watching the seconds tick off to the official start of free agency. Atkinson couldn't fathom why everyone had forecast them as the favorites to land Durant. Neither he nor Marks had spoken to KD. He had never been to visit the team's facility. None of it made sense to him.
Quote:"Even when I saw it," Atkinson says, "I didn't believe it. Durant is going to leave Golden State? I just couldn't wrap my head around it."

Marks answered his cell phone. He engaged in a brief conversation with Rich Kleiman, Durant's agent.

He turned to his coach, beaming.

"It's true," Marks said.

The New Orleans GM and former Cleveland GM says he didn't enjoy trying to build a team around LeBron. And he (along with the sportswriter) stirs the pot in this article.

https://www.si.com/nba/2019/08/01/david-...-cavaliers
Quote:James’ contagious hunger to deliver a championship for Northeast Ohio dissipated. “There wasn’t a lot else for him,” Griffin says. “I don’t think he’s the same animal anymore about winning.” Many in the NBA now suggest James harbors two priorities: enduring to team with his eldest son, Bronny, and one day owning a franchise.
08-01-2019 08:13 PM
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Lush Offline
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Post: #239
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
if lebron endured to get a chance to play with his son, that would be a heartwarming story. mvp, rings, playing in the nba with his son, h.o.f., g.o.a.t.

that's legacy seeking
08-06-2019 10:28 PM
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