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Brookes Owl Online
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Post: #41
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
(01-28-2019 04:37 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-28-2019 04:07 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  OK, where's Anthony Davis going? Knowing the assets Boston will have once Irving opts out, New Orleans would be nuts to deal with anyone else. The only reason I can see for NO to talk to anyone other than Boston is MAYBE if Ainge says e.g. Tatum is off the table. Even then, I think Boston still has the better assets - just not by such a huge margin. Which begs the question: Why is NO shopping him now?

They're shopping him now because AD's trade request became public today.

The Pelicans should get a solid commitment from the Celtics as to who they would put in a package for AD if the deal is made in July. If the commitment doesn't include Tatum -- IMO it should include Tatum and Brown and at least one lottery pick -- then the Pelicans should tell Ainge that he runs the risk that AD will be gone before the Celtics have a chance.

If you're running another team, let's use the Lakers as an example, then you want to make sure that even if you don't get the Brow that you drive up the price so high that the Celtics have to give up a massive amount to get him. Lakers should be offering Kuzma, Ball, Ingram, Zubac, and two first round picks (maybe leave out one or two of those components in the initial offer, but put all of those pieces on the table before the February trade deadline). That might not be enough to get the deal done but it's certainly enough to force Boston to include both Tatum and Brown in their offer, or maybe Tatum and two lottery picks at the least.

Ha - great example. So, my question was a bit rhetorical, getting at what's going on with Davis/Rich Paul and at least NO, Boston, and LA. Everybody knows the Celtics would love to have him and have easily the most valuable assets to trade. If Paul had gone to Demps and said this quietly (which he probably did), and Demps said let's wait until the season's over (which he might have), there's a great chance Davis goes to Boston. So my speculation is that Davis would rather go somewhere other than Boston, so Paul said "ok - we're announcing" and here we are. A bidding war that, as you said, will probably drive the price tag up and is still likely to end up with Davis in Boston but now LA, New York, and Philly at a minimum think they might have a chance.
01-28-2019 05:27 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #42
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
(01-28-2019 05:27 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  
(01-28-2019 04:37 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-28-2019 04:07 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  OK, where's Anthony Davis going? Knowing the assets Boston will have once Irving opts out, New Orleans would be nuts to deal with anyone else. The only reason I can see for NO to talk to anyone other than Boston is MAYBE if Ainge says e.g. Tatum is off the table. Even then, I think Boston still has the better assets - just not by such a huge margin. Which begs the question: Why is NO shopping him now?

They're shopping him now because AD's trade request became public today.

The Pelicans should get a solid commitment from the Celtics as to who they would put in a package for AD if the deal is made in July. If the commitment doesn't include Tatum -- IMO it should include Tatum and Brown and at least one lottery pick -- then the Pelicans should tell Ainge that he runs the risk that AD will be gone before the Celtics have a chance.

If you're running another team, let's use the Lakers as an example, then you want to make sure that even if you don't get the Brow that you drive up the price so high that the Celtics have to give up a massive amount to get him. Lakers should be offering Kuzma, Ball, Ingram, Zubac, and two first round picks (maybe leave out one or two of those components in the initial offer, but put all of those pieces on the table before the February trade deadline). That might not be enough to get the deal done but it's certainly enough to force Boston to include both Tatum and Brown in their offer, or maybe Tatum and two lottery picks at the least.

Ha - great example. So, my question was a bit rhetorical, getting at what's going on with Davis/Rich Paul and at least NO, Boston, and LA. Everybody knows the Celtics would love to have him and have easily the most valuable assets to trade. If Paul had gone to Demps and said this quietly (which he probably did), and Demps said let's wait until the season's over (which he might have), there's a great chance Davis goes to Boston. So my speculation is that Davis would rather go somewhere other than Boston, so Paul said "ok - we're announcing" and here we are. A bidding war that, as you said, will probably drive the price tag up and is still likely to end up with Davis in Boston but now LA, New York, and Philly at a minimum think they might have a chance.

Got to drive the price tag up.

From the perspective of every team other than the Celtics, you can't stop the Pelicans from sending Davis to Boston, but the concern (unless you're the Celtics) is that teams will only make half-hearted offers to New Orleans because they assume AD is going to Boston no matter what, and then the Celtics get Davis for nothing more than, say, Brown and Smart, plus Baynes and Yabusele to balance out salaries.
01-28-2019 06:42 PM
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Post: #43
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
On one hand I am not mad at Davis wanting to improve his position in terms of playoff contender moves but it sure seems to me that some players in the NBA, along with "some" teams seem to try to play this media market/build my brand/create a "big 3" thing too much and it gives off all kinds of tampering and collusion vibes.
01-28-2019 08:30 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #44
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
When a player is a free agent, he can play where he wants to play, and in this case, Davis will be leaving a lot of money on the table by not staying in New Orleans. He would probably stay if they had a contending team there. Just last season the Pelicans let Cousins get away with nothing in return just because they were too cheap to pay Boogie for half a season while he rehabbed. The Pelicans could have a solid core right now with Cousins playing with AD (and Holiday), but they blew it. (In NO's defense, I suppose, 28 other teams made the same mistake.)

AD is using the only leverage he has, which is that his contract runs out in a year and a half. There's nothing stopping the Pelicans from keeping him in NO until the end of his contract, except the fact that they want to get something rather than nothing when he leaves. And there's nothing stopping any other team in the league from trading for AD, as long as they're willing to take the risk that he'll leave in a year and a half.
01-28-2019 10:09 PM
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Brookes Owl Online
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Post: #45
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
(01-28-2019 10:09 PM)Wedge Wrote:  ...Davis will be leaving a lot of money on the table by not staying in New Orleans.

Apparently not...



Quote:AD is using the only leverage he has, which is that his contract runs out in a year and a half. There's nothing stopping the Pelicans from keeping him in NO until the end of his contract, except the fact that they want to get something rather than nothing when he leaves. And there's nothing stopping any other team in the league from trading for AD, as long as they're willing to take the risk that he'll leave in a year and a half.

There are ways around that. I doubt any team would trade away the kinds of assets NO will demand without pretty solid assurance Davis will sign with the new team.
01-28-2019 11:51 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #46
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
Interesting. That's basically the same salary strategy Durant has used.

As for the risk of Davis leaving his new team as a free agent -- it's probably a minimal risk if the new team is the Celtics or Lakers. It would be a big risk if, say, the Knicks trade for AD after the league gives the Knicks another "frozen envelope" so that they get the first pick in the draft again (and then trade that pick to NO). Davis could easily spend a few months with the Knicks and decide he's had enough of that clown show.
01-29-2019 12:02 PM
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Post: #47
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
(01-29-2019 12:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Interesting. That's basically the same salary strategy Durant has used.

Yeah, and to build on that... if Durant really does opt out to test the waters and not just re-sign with GS, think about how much of a NBA reset is possible over the next few months. Durant, Leonard, and Davis are franchise-altering players

Quote:"frozen envelope"

03-lmfao I love this.
(This post was last modified: 01-29-2019 12:59 PM by Brookes Owl.)
01-29-2019 12:58 PM
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Post: #48
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
This is what I was getting at in my first post on Davis. From ESPN...

Adrian Wojnarowski Wrote:After agent Rich Paul of Klutch Sports told ESPN on Monday that he had informed the Pelicans that Davis wouldn't sign an extension this summer and wanted a trade, multiple league sources expect the agent and star to soon deliver word throughout the league that Davis' preferred destination is the Lakers and he'll become a rental player until 2020 with a trade anywhere else.

And from Sports Illustrated...

Chris Mannix Wrote:New Orleans expected this. Maybe not in late January, less than two weeks before the Feb. 7 trade deadline, but the Pelicans expected it. When Davis linked up with Paul—the agent for LeBron James, who has specialized in recent years at steering his other clients toward teams LeBron plays on—they knew Davis’s days there were numbered. It’s why last summer several people in the organization tried to steer Davis away from Paul, two sources close to the situation told The Crossover.

So LBJ told his agent to go get The Brow? Here we are.

But this is kind of fascinating (back to the ESPN/Woj article):

Quote:GM Danny Ainge is undeterred on making a trade for Davis, even without an assurance that he would agree to an extension with the Celtics, league sources said. Boston has been calling New Orleans for the past year-plus on Davis, and has gathered multiple first-round picks and young players to include in a package for him.

It really is hard to imagine him going to Boston, playing in (and possibly if not likely winning) a championship, and then saying "I'm heading to the Lakers." I mean, if Paul George, who publicly exclaimed his desire to play in LA before they got James, still decided to stay in OKC, what makes anyone think Davis would bail on what should be an absolute juggernaut in Boston (I don't like typing that at all)?
(This post was last modified: 01-29-2019 02:32 PM by Brookes Owl.)
01-29-2019 02:30 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #49
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
If AD goes to the Celtics, and especially if the Celtics can get AD without trading Tatum, the Celtics are set up for a longer run than the one the Warriors have been on. And the Celtics, like the Warriors, have a future Hall of Fame coach who players like to play for. Davis wouldn't leave there.

The Celtics can get the Pelicans almost anything they want. Even if the Pelicans decide they want Zion Williamson, the Celtics have more than enough assets to trade with the team that wins the first pick and then send the pick to New Orleans.
01-29-2019 03:09 PM
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Post: #50
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
Right. I think the only interesting question now is why WOULDN'T New Orleans trade Davis to Boston? 1) They perceive (or fear) the threat of Davis leaving any non-LA destination at the end of his current contract has/will suppress the market sufficiently that Boston will low-ball them. 2) Boston doesn't want to give up Tatum (because of #1 or some other reason). 3) I can't think of anything else. In fact, even #1 and #2 don't seem terribly realistic.

What's funny is this will be turned into The New Narrative: The shine is off LBJ, because even in LA he can't get great players to join him.
01-29-2019 03:58 PM
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Post: #51
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
(01-29-2019 03:58 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  Right. I think the only interesting question now is why WOULDN'T New Orleans trade Davis to Boston? 1) They perceive (or fear) the threat of Davis leaving any non-LA destination at the end of his current contract has/will suppress the market sufficiently that Boston will low-ball them. 2) Boston doesn't want to give up Tatum (because of #1 or some other reason). 3) I can't think of anything else. In fact, even #1 and #2 don't seem terribly realistic.

What's funny is this will be turned into The New Narrative: The shine is off LBJ, because even in LA he can't get great players to join him.

What's also funny (unless you're a Lakers fan) is that it might turn out that the reason the Lakers can't get Anthony Davis is that Magic drafted Lonzo Ball instead of Jayson Tatum, which led to Boston having the far more attractive trade bait for Davis, as colorfully pointed out in this Deadspin column:

Quote:What I am saying here is, if the Lakers don’t get Davis—if they miss the last best chance they’ll ever have to pair a still-great LeBron with that good of a teammate—it will be because Magic Johnson fell for the hype surrounding a tryhard third guard with a broken jumpshot whose dad suckered everyone into believing he was Steph Kidd.
01-30-2019 11:46 AM
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Post: #52
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
That's not funny.
01-30-2019 01:45 PM
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Post: #53
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
Knicks trade Porzingis and others to the Mavericks for Dennis Smith, DeAndre Jordan, and others.

Looks like the Knicks are doing this for cap space, while the Mavs are sending off Smith, who doesn't want to be there, and getting Porzingis, who may take up a lot of cap space while only being good-not-great once he recovers from an ACL tear.
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2019 04:50 PM by Wedge.)
01-31-2019 04:35 PM
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Post: #54
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
(01-31-2019 04:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Knicks trade Porzingis and others to the Mavericks for Dennis Smith, DeAndre Jordan, and others.

Looks like the Knicks are doing this for cap space, while the Mavs are sending off Smith, who doesn't want to be there, and getting Porzingis, who may take up a lot of cap space while only being good-not-great once he recovers from an ACL tear.

The injury is curious. A guy his age should be able to fully recover from an ACL tear - and with his skill set this deal would otherwise look like a steal for Dallas. But something about the exceptionally long recovery time and vague/contradictory details from the Knicks makes me wonder how severe the injury was and/or how poorly the rehab has gone.
01-31-2019 05:41 PM
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Post: #55
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
01-31-2019 05:43 PM
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Post: #56
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
(01-31-2019 05:41 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 04:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Knicks trade Porzingis and others to the Mavericks for Dennis Smith, DeAndre Jordan, and others.

Looks like the Knicks are doing this for cap space, while the Mavs are sending off Smith, who doesn't want to be there, and getting Porzingis, who may take up a lot of cap space while only being good-not-great once he recovers from an ACL tear.

The injury is curious. A guy his age should be able to fully recover from an ACL tear - and with his skill set this deal would otherwise look like a steal for Dallas. But something about the exceptionally long recovery time and vague/contradictory details from the Knicks makes me wonder how severe the injury was and/or how poorly the rehab has gone.

Porzingis is a restricted free agent after this season. So Dallas essentially acquired the right to match any offers he gets, or to do a sign-and-trade if Porzingis tells them he doesn't want to play for the Mavs. In theory, Porzingis could sign the one-year qualifying offer this summer that has to be given to any RFA, and then he'd be a UFA in the summer of 2020, but that would be a significant risk for him given his injury.

Also, the Mavericks are sending the Knicks two first-round picks. That's ok if Porzingis is healthy and they re-sign him, but it will burn them if Porzingis walks or isn't healthy.

Demps finally called Magic to inform him that hell will freeze over before New Orleans trades Davis to the Lakers? (Kidding, sort of. IMO the Pelicans want to keep the Lakers in play just in case the Celtics don't offer to include Tatum in a trade for Davis.)
01-31-2019 06:45 PM
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Post: #57
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
(01-31-2019 06:45 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Demps finally called Magic to inform him that hell will freeze over before New Orleans trades Davis to the Lakers? (Kidding, sort of. IMO the Pelicans want to keep the Lakers in play just in case the Celtics don't offer to include Tatum in a trade for Davis.)

As I understand it, there was one call with a planned follow up call. My guess is that the first call went something like this:
“Hey Dell, it’s Magic. “
“**** off. “
“OK. Can I call you later? “
“Sure.”
01-31-2019 07:31 PM
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Post: #58
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
(01-31-2019 05:41 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 04:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Knicks trade Porzingis and others to the Mavericks for Dennis Smith, DeAndre Jordan, and others.

Looks like the Knicks are doing this for cap space, while the Mavs are sending off Smith, who doesn't want to be there, and getting Porzingis, who may take up a lot of cap space while only being good-not-great once he recovers from an ACL tear.

The injury is curious. A guy his age should be able to fully recover from an ACL tear - and with his skill set this deal would otherwise look like a steal for Dallas. But something about the exceptionally long recovery time and vague/contradictory details from the Knicks makes me wonder how severe the injury was and/or how poorly the rehab has gone.

Got to be a cap move.... but DAMN, he was like their best player.
01-31-2019 10:56 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #59
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
(01-31-2019 10:56 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 05:41 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  
(01-31-2019 04:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Knicks trade Porzingis and others to the Mavericks for Dennis Smith, DeAndre Jordan, and others.

Looks like the Knicks are doing this for cap space, while the Mavs are sending off Smith, who doesn't want to be there, and getting Porzingis, who may take up a lot of cap space while only being good-not-great once he recovers from an ACL tear.

The injury is curious. A guy his age should be able to fully recover from an ACL tear - and with his skill set this deal would otherwise look like a steal for Dallas. But something about the exceptionally long recovery time and vague/contradictory details from the Knicks makes me wonder how severe the injury was and/or how poorly the rehab has gone.

Got to be a cap move.... but DAMN, he was like their best player.

Yeah, the Knicks had a graphic on social media that listed everything they got in the trade. The first thing on the list was cap space. SMH.

Star players want to win and they want to get paid, but they don't want to go to a team that has cap space and not much else. As pointed out in a Ringer article today:

Quote:The Mavs would have had a lot of salary cap room this summer had they stayed put through the deadline, but they have had large amounts of cap space ever since breaking up their championship team in 2011, and the best player they ever signed with it was Harrison Barnes.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/1/31/...uka-doncic
02-01-2019 02:07 AM
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Post: #60
RE: 2018-19 NBA Thread
So today, Kyrie Irving decided to stir the pot... 05-stirthepot

Sounds exactly like what Kevin Durant has been saying on this topic all season.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25900...not-future
Quote:"At the end of the day, I'm going to do what's best for my career, and that's just where it stands. That's just where it stands," Irving said on Friday morning ahead of the Celtics' game against the New York Knicks. "And my focus this season is winning a championship with the Boston Celtics. Obviously, we had goals coming into the season, and the primary goal is to win a championship. So that's where my focus is."

And, Woj rips the Lakers for trying to lowball the Pelicans on Davis:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25904...hony-davis
Quote:As the Los Angeles Lakers pursue New Orleans Pelicans All-NBA center Anthony Davis ahead of Thursday's trade deadline, the initial offers have been underwhelming, including the Lakers' first offer of Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Rajon Rondo, Michael Beasley and a first-round pick, league sources told ESPN.

The Lakers have limited offers to two of the franchise's top young players in every proposal, and resisted including more than a single first-round pick in offers, league sources said.
Quote:Also, the Lakers haven't offered salary cap relief for the Pelicans, which would mean absorbing unappetizing Pelicans contracts as part of a larger trade, sources said. That's a typical staple of offers designed to acquire superstar players.

Lakers president Magic Johnson has been communicating with Pelicans GM Dell Demps, sources said. So far, New Orleans hasn't considered the offers worthy of response or countering, league sources said.
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2019 02:14 AM by Wedge.)
02-01-2019 04:36 PM
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