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Not Duane Offline
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Post: #21
RE: OT - Memphis rounds out BB staff
Penny's cred will pull in blue chippers--raw material will, if there is ANY coaching ability, rise to the top.

Wouldn't it be sweet for UC to pull in someone with cred? I know Van Exel has an NBA gig right now....I wouldn't mind a staff of ex-players who've been in the League just from a recruiting standpoint....

NVE
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That could really be interesting....
 
06-14-2018 05:56 PM
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crex043 Offline
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RE: OT - Memphis rounds out BB staff
(06-14-2018 05:56 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  Penny's cred will pull in blue chippers--raw material will, if there is ANY coaching ability, rise to the top.

Wouldn't it be sweet for UC to pull in someone with cred? I know Van Exel has an NBA gig right now....I wouldn't mind a staff of ex-players who've been in the League just from a recruiting standpoint....

NVE
Kenyon
Levett
Tate
DerMarr

That could really be interesting....

UConn had similar talent incoming with a coach who was established. How'd that work out for them? There was plenty of talent languishing on the sideline until they all transferred out.

It goes to show that for every success story (which we'd be hard pressed to find), there are several others that didn't work out.
 
06-14-2018 06:25 PM
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Dannyboy Offline
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RE: OT - Memphis rounds out BB staff
If Penny makes a Sweet 16 he’ll have accomplished as much as Mick has.
 
06-14-2018 09:18 PM
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Not Duane Offline
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RE: OT - Memphis rounds out BB staff
(06-14-2018 06:25 PM)crex043 Wrote:  
(06-14-2018 05:56 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  Penny's cred will pull in blue chippers--raw material will, if there is ANY coaching ability, rise to the top.

Wouldn't it be sweet for UC to pull in someone with cred? I know Van Exel has an NBA gig right now....I wouldn't mind a staff of ex-players who've been in the League just from a recruiting standpoint....

NVE
Kenyon
Levett
Tate
DerMarr

That could really be interesting....

UConn had similar talent incoming with a coach who was established. How'd that work out for them? There was plenty of talent languishing on the sideline until they all transferred out.

It goes to show that for every success story (which we'd be hard pressed to find), there are several others that didn't work out.

You talking about Ollie? In a pretty short stint, he had a Sweet 16 and a NC. Not bad for a rookie coach in a short span.
 
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2018 12:10 AM by Not Duane.)
06-15-2018 12:07 AM
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TubaCat Offline
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RE: OT - Memphis rounds out BB staff
(06-15-2018 12:07 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  
(06-14-2018 06:25 PM)crex043 Wrote:  
(06-14-2018 05:56 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  Penny's cred will pull in blue chippers--raw material will, if there is ANY coaching ability, rise to the top.

Wouldn't it be sweet for UC to pull in someone with cred? I know Van Exel has an NBA gig right now....I wouldn't mind a staff of ex-players who've been in the League just from a recruiting standpoint....

NVE
Kenyon
Levett
Tate
DerMarr

That could really be interesting....

UConn had similar talent incoming with a coach who was established. How'd that work out for them? There was plenty of talent languishing on the sideline until they all transferred out.

It goes to show that for every success story (which we'd be hard pressed to find), there are several others that didn't work out.

You talking about Ollie? In a pretty short stint, he had a Sweet 16 and a NC. Not bad for a rookie coach in a short span.

The NC was with someone else's players who already had chemistry, led by 2 future NBA draft picks as well as 4 - 5 other players who would go on to play basketball professionally in the G-league or overseas. Kevin Ollie having a NC under his belt is a total fluke.
 
06-15-2018 07:43 AM
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marcuscan Offline
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RE: OT - Memphis rounds out BB staff
(06-15-2018 07:43 AM)TubaCat Wrote:  
(06-15-2018 12:07 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  
(06-14-2018 06:25 PM)crex043 Wrote:  
(06-14-2018 05:56 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  Penny's cred will pull in blue chippers--raw material will, if there is ANY coaching ability, rise to the top.

Wouldn't it be sweet for UC to pull in someone with cred? I know Van Exel has an NBA gig right now....I wouldn't mind a staff of ex-players who've been in the League just from a recruiting standpoint....

NVE
Kenyon
Levett
Tate
DerMarr

That could really be interesting....

UConn had similar talent incoming with a coach who was established. How'd that work out for them? There was plenty of talent languishing on the sideline until they all transferred out.

It goes to show that for every success story (which we'd be hard pressed to find), there are several others that didn't work out.

You talking about Ollie? In a pretty short stint, he had a Sweet 16 and a NC. Not bad for a rookie coach in a short span.

The NC was with someone else's players who already had chemistry, led by 2 future NBA draft picks as well as 4 - 5 other players who would go on to play basketball professionally in the G-league or overseas. Kevin Ollie having a NC under his belt is a total fluke.

So what you're saying here is even a bad coach can lead good talent to an NC. Also, a bad coach who doesn't recruit well will run a good program into the ground.

Do we think Penny is a bad recruiter? I think the early returns on this say he's a fine recruiter.

So, let's say he's a bad coach, and he gets elite talent....which, he's totally doing. What then?




mc
 
06-15-2018 08:10 AM
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marcuscan Offline
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RE: OT - Memphis rounds out BB staff
Furthermore, who on this board wouldn't take that deal if it meant we got a NC....and as many Sweet 16s as we've gotten outta Mick over like 15 years?

i'm taking that deal in a heartbeat!

:::waiting on the 'happy with participation award' crowd to pipe up:::

oh we're so lucky and special to have participated in the Big Dance for X years in a row.




mc
 
06-15-2018 08:12 AM
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RE: OT - Memphis rounds out BB staff
(06-15-2018 08:10 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  
(06-15-2018 07:43 AM)TubaCat Wrote:  
(06-15-2018 12:07 AM)Not Duane Wrote:  
(06-14-2018 06:25 PM)crex043 Wrote:  
(06-14-2018 05:56 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  Penny's cred will pull in blue chippers--raw material will, if there is ANY coaching ability, rise to the top.

Wouldn't it be sweet for UC to pull in someone with cred? I know Van Exel has an NBA gig right now....I wouldn't mind a staff of ex-players who've been in the League just from a recruiting standpoint....

NVE
Kenyon
Levett
Tate
DerMarr

That could really be interesting....

UConn had similar talent incoming with a coach who was established. How'd that work out for them? There was plenty of talent languishing on the sideline until they all transferred out.

It goes to show that for every success story (which we'd be hard pressed to find), there are several others that didn't work out.

You talking about Ollie? In a pretty short stint, he had a Sweet 16 and a NC. Not bad for a rookie coach in a short span.

The NC was with someone else's players who already had chemistry, led by 2 future NBA draft picks as well as 4 - 5 other players who would go on to play basketball professionally in the G-league or overseas. Kevin Ollie having a NC under his belt is a total fluke.

So what you're saying here is even a bad coach can lead good talent to an NC. Also, a bad coach who doesn't recruit well will run a good program into the ground.

Do we think Penny is a bad recruiter? I think the early returns on this say he's a fine recruiter.

So, let's say he's a bad coach, and he gets elite talent....which, he's totally doing. What then?




mc

A Bad coach..who inherits and already built team that already has chemistry and already knows how to play together can have some success. Ollie continued to recruit really well at UConn but he could never build chemistry and get a team to play well together that didn't already know how. UConn's most recent title run is probably the flukiest I can remember. That team should have been better all year... they finished 4th in the AAC. The caught some breaks, played great defense and Napier was an absolute beast all march.

Penny doesn't get to start on third base like Ollie. Penny not only has to recruit, he has to build chemistry and develop a team that knows how to play together. Maybe he can, but I don't think there is much of a track record for guys who have not coached at a level higher than high school having success at this big a program.
 
06-15-2018 08:14 AM
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bearcatmark Offline
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RE: OT - Memphis rounds out BB staff
(06-15-2018 08:12 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  Furthermore, who on this board wouldn't take that deal if it meant we got a NC....and as many Sweet 16s as we've gotten outta Mick over like 15 years?

i'm taking that deal in a heartbeat!

:::waiting on the 'happy with participation award' crowd to pipe up:::

oh we're so lucky and special to have participated in the Big Dance for X years in a row.




mc

That deal was only possible because they had a Hall of Fame coach leave the team fully loaded. Yea I'd take the deal of having a hall of fame coach that wins 3 championships and leaves enough there for is crappy coach successor to make a lucky title run to get us a 4th.
 
06-15-2018 08:17 AM
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Post: #30
RE: OT - Memphis rounds out BB staff
(06-15-2018 08:12 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  Furthermore, who on this board wouldn't take that deal if it meant we got a NC....and as many Sweet 16s as we've gotten outta Mick over like 15 years?

i'm taking that deal in a heartbeat!

:::waiting on the 'happy with participation award' crowd to pipe up:::

oh we're so lucky and special to have participated in the Big Dance for X years in a row.




mc

The participation award crowd is just scared of the unknown. It is a Cincinnati area trait to be fearful of wanting more.
 
06-15-2018 08:23 AM
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Def Berkkat Offline
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RE: OT - Memphis rounds out BB staff
(06-15-2018 08:12 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  Furthermore, who on this board wouldn't take that deal if it meant we got a NC....and as many Sweet 16s as we've gotten outta Mick over like 15 years?

i'm taking that deal in a heartbeat!

:::waiting on the 'happy with participation award' crowd to pipe up:::

oh we're so lucky and special to have participated in the Big Dance for X years in a row.




mc

I'm a bit confused. To what "crowd" do you affiliate?

The "Mick just plain sucks and nothing he does is ever good enough" crowd?

The "He's not Bob Huggins" crowd?

The "it's somehow better to lose in the sweet 16 than lose in the second round" crowd?

The "we should win it every year and if we don't we're a bunch of losers" crowd?

Or are you just the comic book guy from "The Simpsons" taking to the internet to voice your displeasure.
 
06-15-2018 10:48 AM
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marcuscan Offline
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RE: OT - Memphis rounds out BB staff
(06-15-2018 10:48 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  
(06-15-2018 08:12 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  Furthermore, who on this board wouldn't take that deal if it meant we got a NC....and as many Sweet 16s as we've gotten outta Mick over like 15 years?

i'm taking that deal in a heartbeat!

:::waiting on the 'happy with participation award' crowd to pipe up:::

oh we're so lucky and special to have participated in the Big Dance for X years in a row.




mc

I'm a bit confused. To what "crowd" do you affiliate?

The "Mick just plain sucks and nothing he does is ever good enough" crowd?

The "He's not Bob Huggins" crowd?

The "it's somehow better to lose in the sweet 16 than lose in the second round" crowd?

The "we should win it every year and if we don't we're a bunch of losers" crowd?

Or are you just the comic book guy from "The Simpsons" taking to the internet to voice your displeasure.

"It's time to move on" crowd. "Try something new" crowd. The "he is what we thought he was" crowd.

Mick is a fine coach. He'll win. He'll run an upstanding, and clean, program. He'll never win big however. We have a statistically significant sample size of this right now. He has his ideal team. It's time.....




mc
 
06-15-2018 01:33 PM
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crex043 Offline
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RE: OT - Memphis rounds out BB staff
(06-15-2018 08:12 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  Furthermore, who on this board wouldn't take that deal if it meant we got a NC....and as many Sweet 16s as we've gotten outta Mick over like 15 years?

i'm taking that deal in a heartbeat!

:::waiting on the 'happy with participation award' crowd to pipe up:::

oh we're so lucky and special to have participated in the Big Dance for X years in a row.




mc

The difference between Mick Cronin and Kevin Ollie is that Ollie took over immediately after Jim Calhoun's retirement and then proceeded to fail to get the most of his players as time went on. Mick Cronin took over after Andy Kennedy served as a lame duck between a HOF coach and himself and didn't have the benefit of continuity. Ollie was also a former player and has NBA experience. He even played under Calhoun. Didn't benefit him much. You can say a lot about Mick, but he definitely gets a lot out of his players despite them being ranked in the 3 star range typically.
 
06-15-2018 02:41 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: OT - Memphis rounds out BB staff
I get the sense from reading this thread that some people take personal offense to the notion that Hardaway might actually succeed to Memphis. If Penny does well at Memphis it is not an indictment on Mick. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

Marcuscan is right that Memphis has a lot of momentum going on right now. They are recruiting at a high level. They have secured a very experienced coaching staff. Furthermore, I read this has been a financial windfall for Memphis... they are projecting an additional $4.5M in ticket and merchandise sales alone.

Frankly I hope Memphis succeeds. Overall it is good for the conference in terms of getting more teams into the tournament (resulting in more money), more exposure during the season, etc. and maybe, it will result in our program "upping its game" as well in terms of recruiting, evaluation of talent, how we conduct our operations, etc.
 
06-15-2018 03:38 PM
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marcuscan Offline
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RE: OT - Memphis rounds out BB staff
(06-15-2018 03:38 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I get the sense from reading this thread that some people take personal offense to the notion that Hardaway might actually succeed to Memphis. If Penny does well at Memphis it is not an indictment on Mick. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

Marcuscan is right that Memphis has a lot of momentum going on right now. They are recruiting at a high level. They have secured a very experienced coaching staff. Furthermore, I read this has been a financial windfall for Memphis... they are projecting an additional $4.5M in ticket and merchandise sales alone.

Frankly I hope Memphis succeeds. Overall it is good for the conference in terms of getting more teams into the tournament (resulting in more money), more exposure during the season, etc. and maybe, it will result in our program "upping its game" as well in terms of recruiting, evaluation of talent, how we conduct our operations, etc.

THIS.

Whether Mick is our coach, or not (and he def will be for the foreseeable future), we win. Memphis is swinging for the fences, and quite frankly this is commendable. They're guaranteed a national spotlight, and as conference champs we can expect that our games against the Tigers will be afforded a spotlight as well.

UC is the quote, unquote, big dog in the conference right now, and if we're all honest with ourselves I think we can say that we're not currently moving the needle much on the nationwide landscape. Someone coming in and grabbing the bull by the horns in the AAC will help us all. There's no conference in America that's major that doesn't have a national team. We need that, and considering the trajectory in Memphis it seems likely they're going to be given that....at least until they fail to live up to the hype....which, i obviously believe they will.





mc
 
06-15-2018 04:30 PM
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Cataclysmo Offline
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RE: OT - Memphis rounds out BB staff
Memphis has been hot garbage for the last 6 years. We just won 30 games and are pissed off that we got bounced early.

You take the latter. Every. Single. Day.
 
06-15-2018 11:52 PM
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Cataclysmo Offline
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RE: OT - Memphis rounds out BB staff
We're all excited about the future Fickell has too for many of the same reasons...he's built a good coaching staff and is recruiting well. But how many of you guys would rather be in our position right now than, say, USF, Houston, or UCF, who actually had success last year.
 
06-15-2018 11:54 PM
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rtaylor Offline
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RE: OT - Memphis rounds out BB staff
(06-15-2018 04:30 PM)marcuscan Wrote:  
(06-15-2018 03:38 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I get the sense from reading this thread that some people take personal offense to the notion that Hardaway might actually succeed to Memphis. If Penny does well at Memphis it is not an indictment on Mick. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

Marcuscan is right that Memphis has a lot of momentum going on right now. They are recruiting at a high level. They have secured a very experienced coaching staff. Furthermore, I read this has been a financial windfall for Memphis... they are projecting an additional $4.5M in ticket and merchandise sales alone.

Frankly I hope Memphis succeeds. Overall it is good for the conference in terms of getting more teams into the tournament (resulting in more money), more exposure during the season, etc. and maybe, it will result in our program "upping its game" as well in terms of recruiting, evaluation of talent, how we conduct our operations, etc.

THIS.

Whether Mick is our coach, or not (and he def will be for the foreseeable future), we win. Memphis is swinging for the fences, and quite frankly this is commendable. They're guaranteed a national spotlight, and as conference champs we can expect that our games against the Tigers will be afforded a spotlight as well.

UC is the quote, unquote, big dog in the conference right now, and if we're all honest with ourselves I think we can say that we're not currently moving the needle much on the nationwide landscape. Someone coming in and grabbing the bull by the horns in the AAC will help us all. There's no conference in America that's major that doesn't have a national team. We need that, and considering the trajectory in Memphis it seems likely they're going to be given that....at least until they fail to live up to the hype....which, i obviously believe they will.





mc

Yep, I love me some hype. Danny Fortson on the cover of Sports Illustrated, that was some hype! How did that end up? You don't like Mick, we get that. I don't like him much myself, but I am not soiling myself in fear of this so called juggernaut of Memphis BS you are preaching. Show me a successful Memphis coach and I will show you vacated wins and titles. LMAO
 
06-16-2018 01:22 AM
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Not Duane Offline
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RE: OT - Memphis rounds out BB staff
(06-15-2018 02:41 PM)crex043 Wrote:  
(06-15-2018 08:12 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  Furthermore, who on this board wouldn't take that deal if it meant we got a NC....and as many Sweet 16s as we've gotten outta Mick over like 15 years?

i'm taking that deal in a heartbeat!

:::waiting on the 'happy with participation award' crowd to pipe up:::

oh we're so lucky and special to have participated in the Big Dance for X years in a row.




mc

The difference between Mick Cronin and Kevin Ollie is that Ollie took over immediately after Jim Calhoun's retirement and then proceeded to fail to get the most of his players as time went on. Mick Cronin took over after Andy Kennedy served as a lame duck between a HOF coach and himself and didn't have the benefit of continuity. Ollie was also a former player and has NBA experience. He even played under Calhoun. Didn't benefit him much. You can say a lot about Mick, but he definitely gets a lot out of his players despite them being ranked in the 3 star range typically.

I think those that want MBB to be successful would rather have the lottery picks.
 
06-16-2018 08:32 AM
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RE: OT - Memphis rounds out BB staff
(06-15-2018 11:52 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Memphis has been hot garbage for the last 6 years. We just won 30 games and are pissed off that we got bounced early.

You take the latter. Every. Single. Day.

I guess. Can I take neither? Because neither is anywhere close to good enough.
 
06-16-2018 08:52 AM
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