(07-03-2018 01:18 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  If I recall correctly from the beginning of the bowl cycle we are now in, the Sun is the PAC #5 bowl where it was #4 before. It could be playing a role.

Pac-12 bowl selection order is CFP games (including Rose), then Alamo-Holiday-San Francisco-Sun-Las Vegas-Cactus. IIRC the order is based on the money paid to the Pac-12 team in each game.

The ACC doesn't have a strict selection order for every bowl game, it's more convoluted.

There's a breakdown, for every FBS conference, here: https://collegefootballnews.com/2018/01/...-2018-2019

(07-03-2018 01:18 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 11:59 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 08:35 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  It’s not really up to the Sun Bowl if the ACC decides to go elsewhere. That’s said, as an observer with no dog in the hunt, the problem with the current Sun Bowl ties is there is no local tie. The Big12 would be a more natural partner. The Pac12 vs Big12 would be good. The Pac12 vs SEC would be ok if Aggie was in the game. The ACC vs Pac12 is basically 2 out of footprint conferences. Maybe ACC vs Big12 if the Sun really likes the idea of Notre Dame.

Historically, the Sun Bowl has drawn around 49,000 or 50,000 fans. That's because it has very strong local support. El Paso takes pride in the bowl and the locals show up no matter who the teams are, which is important because as we know, El Paso isn't close to anywhere, LOL.

But that has slipped in recent years. The past three years, attendance has been around 40,000. Can't really blame the ACC because ACC teams have been playing in it since 2010, and the first five years the attendance was within its historical average.

So something has caused the bowl to lose that attendance, maybe it's general to college football.

Maybe the bowl is getting lower selections? Seems like I remember the Alamo Bowl bumping its payout to attract the Sun's superior selection.

If I recall correctly from the beginning of the bowl cycle we are now in, the Sun is the PAC #5 bowl where it was #4 before. It could be playing a role.

I think it was even higher than that before the last cycle---but I may be mistaken.

(07-03-2018 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 11:59 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 08:35 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  It’s not really up to the Sun Bowl if the ACC decides to go elsewhere. That’s said, as an observer with no dog in the hunt, the problem with the current Sun Bowl ties is there is no local tie. The Big12 would be a more natural partner. The Pac12 vs Big12 would be good. The Pac12 vs SEC would be ok if Aggie was in the game. The ACC vs Pac12 is basically 2 out of footprint conferences. Maybe ACC vs Big12 if the Sun really likes the idea of Notre Dame.

Historically, the Sun Bowl has drawn around 49,000 or 50,000 fans. That's because it has very strong local support. El Paso takes pride in the bowl and the locals show up no matter who the teams are, which is important because as we know, El Paso isn't close to anywhere, LOL.

But that has slipped in recent years. The past three years, attendance has been around 40,000. Can't really blame the ACC because ACC teams have been playing in it since 2010, and the first five years the attendance was within its historical average.

So something has caused the bowl to lose that attendance, maybe it's general to college football.

Maybe the bowl is getting lower selections? Seems like I remember the Alamo Bowl bumping its payout to attract the Sun's superior selection.

That's a good idea, but it doesn't appear to be that way. E.g., here are the PAC-12 records of the last 7 PAC teams in the Sun Bowl, starting with 2011 when attendance was still historical:

4-5
5-4
6-3
6-3
6-3
6-3
6-3

So the PAC records were actually worse in 2011 and 2012, when the bowl was still drawing 48,000 or so. Attendance declined as the PAC was sending 6-3 teams.

I looked at the ACC and it is similar. The ACC has been very consistent: Since Miami went in 2010, every ACC participant has had a 5-3 conference record, except for this past year, when NC State was 6-2.

So in 2017, the NC State vs Arizona State game, you had a 6-3 PAC vs 6-2 ACC team and yet the attendance was as low as its been in many, many years.

(07-03-2018 01:38 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 01:18 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  If I recall correctly from the beginning of the bowl cycle we are now in, the Sun is the PAC #5 bowl where it was #4 before. It could be playing a role.

Pac-12 bowl selection order is CFP games (including Rose), then Alamo-Holiday-San Francisco-Sun-Las Vegas-Cactus. IIRC the order is based on the money paid to the Pac-12 team in each game.

The ACC doesn't have a strict selection order for every bowl game, it's more convoluted.

There's a breakdown, for every FBS conference, here: https://collegefootballnews.com/2018/01/...-2018-2019

If Vegas is bumped up in the pecking order that means the Sun is looking at a 6th selection from the PAC in 2020.

The MWC #1 would be a good fit in the Sun at that point vs. PAC. In the even the PAC has multiple CFP participants and can't fill the Sun then it opens up possibly to another top G5 team like what was done with Houston in the Las Vegas Bowl a couple of years ago.

(07-03-2018 11:59 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 08:35 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  It’s not really up to the Sun Bowl if the ACC decides to go elsewhere. That’s said, as an observer with no dog in the hunt, the problem with the current Sun Bowl ties is there is no local tie. The Big12 would be a more natural partner. The Pac12 vs Big12 would be good. The Pac12 vs SEC would be ok if Aggie was in the game. The ACC vs Pac12 is basically 2 out of footprint conferences. Maybe ACC vs Big12 if the Sun really likes the idea of Notre Dame.

Historically, the Sun Bowl has drawn around 49,000 or 50,000 fans. That's because it has very strong local support. El Paso takes pride in the bowl and the locals show up no matter who the teams are, which is important because as we know, El Paso isn't close to anywhere, LOL.

But that has slipped in recent years. The past three years, attendance has been around 40,000. Can't really blame the ACC because ACC teams have been playing in it since 2010, and the first five years the attendance was within its historical average.

So something has caused the bowl to lose that attendance, maybe it's general to college football.

2010 you say?

Funny here is an article from 2015 talking about how attendance has been falling since 2010. Which it has continued to do through last year.

https://www.ktsm.com/sports/hyundai-sun-.../313219281

Like old times quo, you post something partially accurate to make your argument look good and get called on it by facts.

By the way this includes a Notre Dame game in this (first year, 2010) attendance slide. The article specifically mentions that lack of local tie ins. Something the MWC does not provide other than UNM. It's the big xii or AAC that is needed here. With the Sun slipping down the selection for the PAC the big xii seems unlikely.

The MWC would be wise to go all in on the Foster Farms bowl to replace the Vegas bowl. Their Cali presence is a strong argument against the AAC who is most likely to compete for it. The Big 10 is out and the sec is already swinging things around for the new Vegas slot. The ACC doesn't want to go west and the Big xii already has the Holiday bowl.