(01-17-2019 09:19 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 09:08 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  (thus, the BE should NOT want them in current form either).

See, this I disagree with, because regardless of what UConn wants, the football program isn't getting the call-up they're hoping for. If the Big East can get UConn under their tent they should get it done before anyone can have second thoughts, and if it takes an additional five to ten years for the football dreams to finally be put to bed then so be it. Whatever lands the conference the biggest remaining (for the BE) potentially-free agent out there.

I'll clarify:

The Big East (Presidents/ADs/Coaches) would not want UConn if their intent was simply to use the conference as a temporary placement or a stepping stone to another conference. If they was some type of financial agreement where UConn committed to the Big East for x amount of years (but leaving would forfeit the revenue they earned back to the Big East), then I could see it. However, the C7 Presidents were adamant that they did not want football to be a distraction again. All ten schools in the Big East are in it for the long-haul together.

In the end, perhaps it is all moot; maybe, UConn decides to drop football within ten years, or maybe they decide to continue on as a Independent (with Fox helping with arranging matchups). In either case, I have stated repeatedly that UConn's membership in the AAC is simply not sustainable. This is just proof of that.

(01-17-2019 09:30 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 09:19 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 09:08 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  (thus, the BE should NOT want them in current form either).

See, this I disagree with, because regardless of what UConn wants, the football program isn't getting the call-up they're hoping for. If the Big East can get UConn under their tent they should get it done before anyone can have second thoughts, and if it takes an additional five to ten years for the football dreams to finally be put to bed then so be it. Whatever lands the conference the biggest remaining (for the BE) potentially-free agent out there.

I'll clarify:

The Big East (Presidents/ADs/Coaches) would not want UConn if their intent was simply to use the conference as a temporary placement or a stepping stone to another conference. If they was some type of financial agreement where UConn committed to the Big East for x amount of years (but leaving would forfeit the revenue they earned back to the Big East), then I could see it. However, the C7 Presidents were adamant that they did not want football to be a distraction again. All ten schools in the Big East are in it for the long-haul together.

In the end, perhaps it is all moot; maybe, UConn decides to drop football within ten years, or maybe they decide to continue on as a Independent (with Fox helping with arranging matchups). In either case, I have stated repeatedly that UConn's membership in the AAC is simply not sustainable. This is just proof of that.

We're largely saying the same things, so I don't want this to come off as combative, but I think any Big East concerns to that effect would be overblown. The big-money football conferences aren't coming calling for UConn, so once you get them to burn that AAC bridge and hop on board the Big East has basically cornered UConn. If the Connecticut athletic department needs to pretend otherwise for a while in order to square themselves mentally with the move, what does it really matter?

(01-17-2019 09:08 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  https://www.courant.com/sports/hc-sp-uco...story.html

Yep, all is well in UConn-land. Clearly.

Stever, I won't go back-and-forth with you. I know where you stand, and I respect your stats - so I won't continue the debate (it's been argued enough here, there, everywhere). I do think that being in the American is a detriment to UConn Athletics, and I'll just leave it at that. For what it wants/desires, the Big East would not be a fit for them either (thus, the BE should NOT want them in current form either).

UConn is Example A for Victims of Realignment 101. In retrospect, UConn needed to elevate football in the 70's/early 80's to have ever had a shot at the ACC, or not elevate it at all in the early 2000's.

I just think UConn can be very successful in the AAC. I mean, look at where Houston is right now. looking at the Matrix, just ahead of Marquette as the 14th best team. And UConn would frankly have more respect than that.

Folks want to argue that there is a ceiling in the AAC, and I just don't see it. Last year Cincy got a 2 seed, Wichita got a 4 seed. Now this year with Houston. the league is doing well enough OOC now that end of the year, their overall SOS is strong enough to support the high seeds. And the league is just going to get better- next year Memphis and UConn will be both bringing in top 20 recruiting classes. Wichita has a top 50 class, and has transfer coming in from WVU who is pretty good I believe.

(01-17-2019 09:44 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 09:30 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 09:19 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 09:08 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  (thus, the BE should NOT want them in current form either).

See, this I disagree with, because regardless of what UConn wants, the football program isn't getting the call-up they're hoping for. If the Big East can get UConn under their tent they should get it done before anyone can have second thoughts, and if it takes an additional five to ten years for the football dreams to finally be put to bed then so be it. Whatever lands the conference the biggest remaining (for the BE) potentially-free agent out there.

I'll clarify:

The Big East (Presidents/ADs/Coaches) would not want UConn if their intent was simply to use the conference as a temporary placement or a stepping stone to another conference. If they was some type of financial agreement where UConn committed to the Big East for x amount of years (but leaving would forfeit the revenue they earned back to the Big East), then I could see it. However, the C7 Presidents were adamant that they did not want football to be a distraction again. All ten schools in the Big East are in it for the long-haul together.

In the end, perhaps it is all moot; maybe, UConn decides to drop football within ten years, or maybe they decide to continue on as a Independent (with Fox helping with arranging matchups). In either case, I have stated repeatedly that UConn's membership in the AAC is simply not sustainable. This is just proof of that.

We're largely saying the same things, so I don't want this to come off as combative, but I think any Big East concerns to that effect would be overblown. The big-money football conferences aren't coming calling for UConn, so once you get them to burn that AAC bridge and hop on board the Big East has basically cornered UConn. If the Connecticut athletic department needs to pretend otherwise for a while in order to square themselves mentally with the move, what does it really matter?

Got it. I agree.

(01-18-2019 09:26 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 09:08 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  https://www.courant.com/sports/hc-sp-uco...story.html

Yep, all is well in UConn-land. Clearly.

Stever, I won't go back-and-forth with you. I know where you stand, and I respect your stats - so I won't continue the debate (it's been argued enough here, there, everywhere). I do think that being in the American is a detriment to UConn Athletics, and I'll just leave it at that. For what it wants/desires, the Big East would not be a fit for them either (thus, the BE should NOT want them in current form either).

UConn is Example A for Victims of Realignment 101. In retrospect, UConn needed to elevate football in the 70's/early 80's to have ever had a shot at the ACC, or not elevate it at all in the early 2000's.

I just think UConn can be very successful in the AAC. I mean, look at where Houston is right now. looking at the Matrix, just ahead of Marquette as the 14th best team. And UConn would frankly have more respect than that.

Folks want to argue that there is a ceiling in the AAC, and I just don't see it. Last year Cincy got a 2 seed, Wichita got a 4 seed. Now this year with Houston. the league is doing well enough OOC now that end of the year, their overall SOS is strong enough to support the high seeds. And the league is just going to get better- next year Memphis and UConn will be both bringing in top 20 recruiting classes. Wichita has a top 50 class, and has transfer coming in from WVU who is pretty good I believe.

Well, there is a ceiling to every conference. The law of averages guarantees that. Even if/when, Memphis and UConn raise their level of play, they will be taking the spot of another program within the AAC. It is also likely that, due to some success experienced by a number of programs (that have taken advantage of Memphis/UConn being down), that those coaches may get poached by P5 programs. Due to the lack of historical success (and quite frankly fan support), it could be very hard to sustain that success at a number of programs. Johnny Dawkins could be getting a better job offer this off-season. So can Kelvin Sampson. UCF and Houston are by no means examples of sustained success in basketball.

Bottom-line, it is six years into the league. For it to hit its potential, the top programs need to be firing on all cylinders (UConn, Memphis, Cincinnati, Houston, Wichita State, Temple), the middle needs to be competitive (UCF, USF, Tulsa, SMU) and the bottom needs to be decent in OOC, but soak up most of the losses in conference (Tulane, ECU). That's a lot to ask for in order to hit on that potential, IMO (which is why the league has, via perceptional, under-performed).

(01-18-2019 10:30 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(01-18-2019 09:26 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-17-2019 09:08 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  https://www.courant.com/sports/hc-sp-uco...story.html

Yep, all is well in UConn-land. Clearly.

Stever, I won't go back-and-forth with you. I know where you stand, and I respect your stats - so I won't continue the debate (it's been argued enough here, there, everywhere). I do think that being in the American is a detriment to UConn Athletics, and I'll just leave it at that. For what it wants/desires, the Big East would not be a fit for them either (thus, the BE should NOT want them in current form either).

UConn is Example A for Victims of Realignment 101. In retrospect, UConn needed to elevate football in the 70's/early 80's to have ever had a shot at the ACC, or not elevate it at all in the early 2000's.

I just think UConn can be very successful in the AAC. I mean, look at where Houston is right now. looking at the Matrix, just ahead of Marquette as the 14th best team. And UConn would frankly have more respect than that.

Folks want to argue that there is a ceiling in the AAC, and I just don't see it. Last year Cincy got a 2 seed, Wichita got a 4 seed. Now this year with Houston. the league is doing well enough OOC now that end of the year, their overall SOS is strong enough to support the high seeds. And the league is just going to get better- next year Memphis and UConn will be both bringing in top 20 recruiting classes. Wichita has a top 50 class, and has transfer coming in from WVU who is pretty good I believe.

Well, there is a ceiling to every conference. The law of averages guarantees that. Even if/when, Memphis and UConn raise their level of play, they will be taking the spot of another program within the AAC. It is also likely that, due to some success experienced by a number of programs (that have taken advantage of Memphis/UConn being down), that those coaches may get poached by P5 programs. Due to the lack of historical success (and quite frankly fan support), it could be very hard to sustain that success at a number of programs. Johnny Dawkins could be getting a better job offer this off-season. So can Kelvin Sampson. UCF and Houston are by no means examples of sustained success in basketball.

Bottom-line, it is six years into the league. For it to hit its potential, the top programs need to be firing on all cylinders (UConn, Memphis, Cincinnati, Houston, Wichita State, Temple), the middle needs to be competitive (UCF, USF, Tulsa, SMU) and the bottom needs to be decent in OOC, but soak up most of the losses in conference (Tulane, ECU). That's a lot to ask for in order to hit on that potential, IMO (which is why the league has, via perceptional, under-performed).

Why is there a ceiling though? I mean, were UConn and Memphis perfect OOC and only losing conference games? No way at all... I mean UConn, Memphis, and Wichita went a combined 24-14 OOC. Why would Houston, Cincy, UCF, and Temple have to be worse just because those other 3 teams were 34-4 OOC??? Yeah those guys might take some extra conference losses, but as a whole the league would elevate.

Also, what P5 spots are exactly going to be open this year? Outside of the Pac 12- where is going to be available? Penn St and Wake Forest maybe???? Also, the AAC isn't the only place those schools look for coaches. Seem to remember Xavier seeing their coach poached last year.... Not to mention guys like from Loyola and Buffalo....

I think that's something that Big East fans want to do- make it seem like conference play is all that matters. Sorry, but your OOC does matter, and it does matter a lot.

I mean last year OOC-
Big East 101-23 .815
AAC 103-45 .696

this year OOC
Big East 94-31 .752
AAC 107-42 .718

That's going to make a huge difference. If the AAC can take that next step up OOC, it's going to make all the conference games count more for them.....

There's this thought that if we just do well enough in conference play, OOC won't matter at all. Sorry, that may have been the way 20 years ago, when Georgia for instance got into the tourney at 16-14, but those days are long gone. We're probably never going to see 30 years ago where Villanova made the tourney at 17-15.

(01-14-2019 11:04 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(01-13-2019 02:30 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  Anybody hear that sound?

The sound of Creighton swirling towards the drain?

I see why you guys invited them. Nothing but punching bags.

If Creighton is "swirling the drain" at 10-6, what does that make Wichita State at 7-8 (and winless in conference)?

BTW, Creighton also leads the all-time series against WSU at 51-43. If they are a punching bag, what does that make WSU?

How are those BJs doing?

I think it’s cute that you defend them because they’re your conference “brethren” now. So mid major.

Compare NCAA Tournament histories and get back to be on program comparing.

(01-14-2019 11:32 AM)novachap Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 11:04 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(01-13-2019 02:30 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  Anybody hear that sound?

The sound of Creighton swirling towards the drain?

I see why you guys invited them. Nothing but punching bags.

If Creighton is "swirling the drain" at 10-6, what does that make Wichita State at 7-8 (and winless in conference)?

BTW, Creighton also leads the all-time series against WSU at 51-43. If they are a punching bag, what does that make WSU?

Shoot, I thought the sound was that of Gregg Marshall interviewing at UCLA...

How’s that going so far?

(01-18-2019 02:46 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 11:32 AM)novachap Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 11:04 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(01-13-2019 02:30 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  Anybody hear that sound?

The sound of Creighton swirling towards the drain?

I see why you guys invited them. Nothing but punching bags.

If Creighton is "swirling the drain" at 10-6, what does that make Wichita State at 7-8 (and winless in conference)?

BTW, Creighton also leads the all-time series against WSU at 51-43. If they are a punching bag, what does that make WSU?

Shoot, I thought the sound was that of Gregg Marshall interviewing at UCLA...

How’s that going so far?

Shocker, your obsession coming over here and Blasting Creighton every time they have a loss is a bit obsessive wouldn't you say? That in and of itself to me is a bit of mid-major action. Truth of the matter is Creighton is in a more difficult and challenging conference. They're going to have more losses and stiffer competition to when they were consistently beating you guys back in that old conference.

The thing is, BOTH Creighton and Wichita are in the same boat.

in 2013 the MVC had a .625 winning percentage OOC.

The AAC is if Temple can beat Penn going to be at .720 and the Big East is at .752(and that's down)…..

(01-18-2019 05:08 PM)novachap Wrote:  

(01-18-2019 02:46 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 11:32 AM)novachap Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 11:04 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(01-13-2019 02:30 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  Anybody hear that sound?

The sound of Creighton swirling towards the drain?

I see why you guys invited them. Nothing but punching bags.

If Creighton is "swirling the drain" at 10-6, what does that make Wichita State at 7-8 (and winless in conference)?

BTW, Creighton also leads the all-time series against WSU at 51-43. If they are a punching bag, what does that make WSU?

Shoot, I thought the sound was that of Gregg Marshall interviewing at UCLA...

How’s that going so far?

Shocker, your obsession coming over here and Blasting Creighton every time they have a loss is a bit obsessive wouldn't you say? That in and of itself to me is a bit of mid-major action. Truth of the matter is Creighton is in a more difficult and challenging conference. They're going to have more losses and stiffer competition to when they were consistently beating you guys back in that old conference.

I see that conference has worked out well for them in the March Chokefest.

Keep propping em up. It's cute lol.

another broken wrist for Nova....

Don't they give their guys milk to drink?

(01-19-2019 01:27 AM)stever20 Wrote:  another broken wrist for Nova....

Don't they give their guys milk to drink?

Right? It is crazy after laat year. The practices are notoriously tough, Got to Believe it happened diving for a loose ball or something like that.

(01-19-2019 02:36 AM)novachap Wrote:  

(01-19-2019 01:27 AM)stever20 Wrote:  another broken wrist for Nova....

Don't they give their guys milk to drink?

Right? It is crazy after laat year. The practices are notoriously tough, Got to Believe it happened diving for a loose ball or something like that.

wasn't Dante in his 1st year with Nova also another broken wrist???

Nope, foot... last year, samuels, gillespie and booth..

Seton Hall with the big loss home vs DePaul....

Seton Hall going to be really interesting. needs to go 6-5 to get to just 18-12.... With a really tough remaining schedule.

Only 2 Big East teams with winning conference records through 1/19.

Villanova (5-0)
Marquette (4-1)
Butler (3-3)
Xavier (3-3)
Depaul (3-3)
St. John's (3-4)
Seton Hall (3-4)
Georgetown (2-3)
Providence (1-3)
Creighton (1-4)

The top third of the conference is weaker this year than last year. The bottom third of the conference is stronger this year than last year. So the teams are really beating each other up.

(01-20-2019 12:57 AM)kmdhoya Wrote:  Only 2 Big East teams with winning conference records through 1/19.

Villanova (5-0)
Marquette (4-1)
Butler (3-3)
Xavier (3-3)
Depaul (3-3)
St. John's (3-4)
Seton Hall (3-4)
Georgetown (2-3)
Providence (1-3)
Creighton (1-4)

The top third of the conference is weaker this year than last year. The bottom third of the conference is stronger this year than last year. So the teams are really beating each other up.

yep. It's incredible for the regular season..... Now, come postseason, that parity will likely cost the league bids. Especially when you coincide with the relatively mediocre OOC season this year.

You figure right now-
Butler needs to go 6-6 to have a shot at the tourney(precarious)
St John's needs to go probably 7-4 rest of the way to make it
Seton Hall needs to go 6-5 rest of the way
Creighton needs to go 8-5 to have a shot(but there even would have 17-13 record and would need a BET win if not 2)- probably 9-4 quite frankly
Providence needs to go 8-5 to have a shot.

looking at those 5 teams...
Butler- still has 4 left with Nova/Marquette
St John's- still has 2 left with them
Seton Hall- still has 3 left with them
Creighton- still has 2 left with them
Providence- still has 2 left with them

so if Nova/Marquette are dominant and win most of those 13 games- going to really limit how many teams the league is going to get.

saw something so amazing....

Seton Hall has had so many close games.... 11 of the 19 games decided by 6 points or less.... 6-5 in those 11 games....

Seton Hall's opponents have for the season shot over 75% from the free throw line. Only 12 teams have had their opponents shoot better from the line.

In those 5 close losses, their opponents are going a crazy 90-112 from the line. 80.4%. Louisville missed 1, Marquette missed 4, and DePaul missed 3 tonight. Seton Hall in those 5 games shooting 67-92 which is 72.8%(better than the season 70.8%). So -23 from the line in those 5 games- games where Seton Hall lost by a total of 16 points.