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Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #121
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(06-18-2018 10:16 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the American loses just one member then Army is their top choice. They then have the freedom to pursue a basketball to fill out Olympic sports or just stand at 11.

Maybe the AAC wants Army, but I don't know if the feeling is mutual. Didn't they drop out of CUSA because the competition was too much for them?
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esayem Offline
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Post: #122
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(Yesterday 06:52 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(Yesterday 06:10 AM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  
(06-18-2018 06:33 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(06-18-2018 12:42 AM)esayem Wrote:  If Cincinnati and Houston would have been invited to the Big XII, I think Rice would have been a lock. Army would have been recruited to join as well, and a division with private schools may have enticed them enough to rejoin a football conference. Memphis would move to the East for football, and VCU may have been invited for other sports.

I haven't said it in a while but I question that VCU would be in for a move to the AAC.

-Travel costs are going to be a lot higher in the AAC plus higher coaching salaries.

-VCU is sharing a conference with Richmond, George Washington and George Mason which are key schools in its marketplace.

-The A10 is and has long been a consistent multi-bid conference. They have been very adept at making additions to keep it that way. The loss of Dayton and St. Louis even wouldn't hurt them too much.

Personally I think Dayton would be a better choice for the AAC because they bring fans which drives perception. Both Dayton and St. Louis right now would be good adds to the AAC.

According to the media here in Richmond, VCU and Dayton already told the AAC to take a hike, when Wichita was added.

Yeah they don't need it as much as Wichita did.

The A10 has been good to those two. SLU on the other hand, would benefit from being closer to the American’s western flank.
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #123
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(06-18-2018 08:16 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(06-18-2018 06:33 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(06-18-2018 12:42 AM)esayem Wrote:  If Cincinnati and Houston would have been invited to the Big XII, I think Rice would have been a lock. Army would have been recruited to join as well, and a division with private schools may have enticed them enough to rejoin a football conference. Memphis would move to the East for football, and VCU may have been invited for other sports.

I haven't said it in a while but I question that VCU would be in for a move to the AAC.

-Travel costs are going to be a lot higher in the AAC plus higher coaching salaries.

-VCU is sharing a conference with Richmond, George Washington and George Mason which are key schools in its marketplace.

-The A10 is and has long been a consistent multi-bid conference. They have been very adept at making additions to keep it that way. The loss of Dayton and St. Louis even wouldn't hurt them too much.

Personally I think Dayton would be a better choice for the AAC because they bring fans which drives perception. Both Dayton and St. Louis right now would be good adds to the AAC.

I don’t disagree, but I’m not sure Cincinnati goes for Dayton. If Cincinnati is gone and the American wants a non-football, then Dayton vaults to the top. On the other hand, Cincinnati has shared a conference, the Great Midwest, with Dayton before.

St. Louis would be a great addition considering their location and somewhat recent basketball success. I believe they have an excellent coach in Travis Ford, who may stick around for some time.

I'm 100% for adding Dayton. There's a lot of Dayton alums in Cincinnati, and UC fans get along well with their fanbase.

UC has no problem playing them as equals. Since 1950, Dayton is our 6th-most played opponent. We've played them 17 times since 1990 - 7 at home, 7 at Dayton, and 3 neutral-site games.

I think Dayton fans would like it too. The A10 is a Virginia/Philly regional conference with none of Dayton's rivals. Not only would they add a friendly rival (UC), but games against UConn and Temple would give them higher exposure on the East Coast than games against the small A-10 schools.
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #124
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(06-18-2018 06:33 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(06-18-2018 12:42 AM)esayem Wrote:  If Cincinnati and Houston would have been invited to the Big XII, I think Rice would have been a lock. Army would have been recruited to join as well, and a division with private schools may have enticed them enough to rejoin a football conference. Memphis would move to the East for football, and VCU may have been invited for other sports.

I haven't said it in a while but I question that VCU would be in for a move to the AAC.

-Travel costs are going to be a lot higher in the AAC plus higher coaching salaries.

-VCU is sharing a conference with Richmond, George Washington and George Mason which are key schools in its marketplace.

-The A10 is and has long been a consistent multi-bid conference. They have been very adept at making additions to keep it that way. The loss of Dayton and St. Louis even wouldn't hurt them too much.

Personally I think Dayton would be a better choice for the AAC because they bring fans which drives perception. Both Dayton and St. Louis right now would be good adds to the AAC.

I have no clue how the president or AD feel about it, but I know a lot of VCU fans are very wary about joining a football conference, even one with better basketball than the A-10. CUSA was created in large part for football and it resulted in VCU getting dumped. And they're worried that whatever advantage the AAC holds over the A-10 in hoops would be negated if some combination of Cincinnati, UConn, Memphis and Houston left (though that's been mitigated somewhat by Wichita's arrival).

Dayton and St. Louis long for the Big East. Would even the AAC be enough to get them to turn down a BE invite should that day come? Plus St. Louis is wildly inconsistent in basketball.
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MechaKnight Offline
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Post: #125
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
If the AAC loses...

1 school - replace with Army
2 schools - stay at 10 (division format)
3 schools - stay at 9 (round robin format)
4 schools - add Army, stay at 9
5 schools - reorganize with CUSA/SBC
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Post: #126
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
Sacred heart is making the jump to fbs and to the aac if this happens..you heard it here first #pioneerpride
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joeben69 Offline
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Post: #127
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(Yesterday 12:55 PM)MechaKnight Wrote:  If the AAC loses...

1 school - replace with Army
2 schools - stay at 10 (division format)
3 schools - stay at 9 (round robin format)
4 schools - add Army, stay at 9
5 schools - reorganize with CUSA/SBC

doesn't the aac/bec have a history of just raiding cusa a la carte instead of reorganizing with other conferences???...even though reorging with cusa & sbc does makes sense in theory...

*football schools
2005
University of Cincinnati - CUSA --> Big East Conference (American)
University of Louisville - CUSA --> Big East (American)
University of South Florida - CUSA --> BEC (American)
= 3 teams

2013
University of Central Florida - CUSA --> American Athletic Conference (AAC)
University of Houston - CUSA --> American Athletic (AAC)
University of Memphis - CUSA --> American (AAC)
Southern Methodist University - CUSA --> AAC
= 4 teams

2014
East Carolina University - CUSA --> AAC
Tulane University - CUSA --> AAC
University of Tulsa - CUSA --> AAC
= 3 teams
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conference...er_members

next round will probably be more of the same...a reorg with what's left of CUSA & SBC may feasible...perhaps they could merge into a new southwest conference (SWC)...
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #128
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(Yesterday 12:55 PM)MechaKnight Wrote:  If the AAC loses...

1 school - replace with Army
2 schools - stay at 10 (division format)
3 schools - stay at 9 (round robin format)
4 schools - add Army, stay at 9
5 schools - reorganize with CUSA/SBC

A title game adds value. If they lose 3 or more schools they will return to 10.
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #129
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(Yesterday 04:24 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(Yesterday 12:55 PM)MechaKnight Wrote:  If the AAC loses...

1 school - replace with Army
2 schools - stay at 10 (division format)
3 schools - stay at 9 (round robin format)
4 schools - add Army, stay at 9
5 schools - reorganize with CUSA/SBC


A title game adds value. If they lose 3 or more schools they will return to 10.

While I do think they'll aim for 10 minimum, I don't think there is a minimum requirement of members for a CCG anymore.
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #130
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(Yesterday 04:48 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(Yesterday 04:24 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(Yesterday 12:55 PM)MechaKnight Wrote:  If the AAC loses...

1 school - replace with Army
2 schools - stay at 10 (division format)
3 schools - stay at 9 (round robin format)
4 schools - add Army, stay at 9
5 schools - reorganize with CUSA/SBC


A title game adds value. If they lose 3 or more schools they will return to 10.

While I do think they'll aim for 10 minimum, I don't think there is a minimum requirement of members for a CCG anymore.

The minimum is 8 all sport members to be designated an FBS conference.

With the AAC having 11 all sport FBS members plus Navy the most they could lose is 3 before the all-sport backfilling begins.
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Post: #131
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(Yesterday 04:16 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(Yesterday 12:55 PM)MechaKnight Wrote:  If the AAC loses...

1 school - replace with Army
2 schools - stay at 10 (division format)
3 schools - stay at 9 (round robin format)
4 schools - add Army, stay at 9
5 schools - reorganize with CUSA/SBC

doesn't the aac/bec have a history of just raiding cusa a la carte instead of reorganizing with other conferences???...even though reorging with cusa & sbc does makes sense in theory...

*football schools
2005
University of Cincinnati - CUSA --> Big East Conference (American)
University of Louisville - CUSA --> Big East (American)
University of South Florida - CUSA --> BEC (American)
= 3 teams

2013
University of Central Florida - CUSA --> American Athletic Conference (AAC)
University of Houston - CUSA --> American Athletic (AAC)
University of Memphis - CUSA --> American (AAC)
Southern Methodist University - CUSA --> AAC
= 4 teams

2014
East Carolina University - CUSA --> AAC
Tulane University - CUSA --> AAC
University of Tulsa - CUSA --> AAC
= 3 teams
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conference...er_members

next round will probably be more of the same...a reorg with what's left of CUSA & SBC may feasible...perhaps they could merge into a new southwest conference (SWC)...

Well if you look at the schools that were in CUSA when the last seven who joined the American were still in it (UCF, Houston, SMU, Memphis, ECU, Tulane, Tulsa) they are: UTEP, Rice, USM, UAB, Marshall

That is you short list. UTEP is too remote (Mountain time zone); Marshall is a zero market and recruiting zone (also academically the weakest); Rice overlaps Houston so wont be considered as long as they are around; Southern Miss has the smallest budget and endowment, another tiny market; UAB restarted football, and it has been awhile since they mattered in basketball, but they are the best fit geographically and academically for the American.

I suspect given the "meh" nature of that list, you are likely to see the American look beyond the old CUSA members for replacements. ODU is a well funded new program, although without great success in FBS, which fits nicely as a DMV region school. Army used to be a CUSA member, and would be a welcome addition, but they do not seem to be interested - it would take several years to unload their schedule, and they are worried about competitiveness. UMass is normally a strong Basketball school and academically would near the top, although football they are weak, also New England is an almost worthless recruiting desert. It gets pretty thin after that, with Buffalo and FIU at least checking off the major research university box. Toledo seems to me to be the best of the rest, better funded than the other MAC schools, and one of the stronger academically.

If the AAC went about expansion logically, we could predict it. But they swing widely and are influenced by whomever is hot at the moment, and fixing the last problem, rather than having a game plan. So who they leans toward in 2024 is unpredictable. The list of names above, plus taking a flier at some MWC schools or BYU would be expected, but unlikely to work.

In all I am of the opinion they will only add 1 school if they lose 1 school, in order to keep balanced, and they will only add 1 school if they lose 3, due to the mediocre quality of what they have to choose from. If they lose two they will stand at 10. I think it's highly unlikely they lose more than 2 anyway, 1 the most likely number.
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #132
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(Yesterday 08:29 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(Yesterday 04:16 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(Yesterday 12:55 PM)MechaKnight Wrote:  If the AAC loses...

1 school - replace with Army
2 schools - stay at 10 (division format)
3 schools - stay at 9 (round robin format)
4 schools - add Army, stay at 9
5 schools - reorganize with CUSA/SBC

doesn't the aac/bec have a history of just raiding cusa a la carte instead of reorganizing with other conferences???...even though reorging with cusa & sbc does makes sense in theory...

*football schools
2005
University of Cincinnati - CUSA --> Big East Conference (American)
University of Louisville - CUSA --> Big East (American)
University of South Florida - CUSA --> BEC (American)
= 3 teams

2013
University of Central Florida - CUSA --> American Athletic Conference (AAC)
University of Houston - CUSA --> American Athletic (AAC)
University of Memphis - CUSA --> American (AAC)
Southern Methodist University - CUSA --> AAC
= 4 teams

2014
East Carolina University - CUSA --> AAC
Tulane University - CUSA --> AAC
University of Tulsa - CUSA --> AAC
= 3 teams
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conference...er_members

next round will probably be more of the same...a reorg with what's left of CUSA & SBC may feasible...perhaps they could merge into a new southwest conference (SWC)...

Well if you look at the schools that were in CUSA when the last seven who joined the American were still in it (UCF, Houston, SMU, Memphis, ECU, Tulane, Tulsa) they are: UTEP, Rice, USM, UAB, Marshall

That is you short list. UTEP is too remote (Mountain time zone); Marshall is a zero market and recruiting zone (also academically the weakest); Rice overlaps Houston so wont be considered as long as they are around; Southern Miss has the smallest budget and endowment, another tiny market; UAB restarted football, and it has been awhile since they mattered in basketball, but they are the best fit geographically and academically for the American.

I suspect given the "meh" nature of that list, you are likely to see the American look beyond the old CUSA members for replacements. ODU is a well funded new program, although without great success in FBS, which fits nicely as a DMV region school. Army used to be a CUSA member, and would be a welcome addition, but they do not seem to be interested - it would take several years to unload their schedule, and they are worried about competitiveness. UMass is normally a strong Basketball school and academically would near the top, although football they are weak, also New England is an almost worthless recruiting desert. It gets pretty thin after that, with Buffalo and FIU at least checking off the major research university box. Toledo seems to me to be the best of the rest, better funded than the other MAC schools, and one of the stronger academically.

If the AAC went about expansion logically, we could predict it. But they swing widely and are influenced by whomever is hot at the moment, and fixing the last problem, rather than having a game plan. So who they leans toward in 2024 is unpredictable. The list of names above, plus taking a flier at some MWC schools or BYU would be expected, but unlikely to work.

In all I am of the opinion they will only add 1 school if they lose 1 school, in order to keep balanced, and they will only add 1 school if they lose 3, due to the mediocre quality of what they have to choose from. If they lose two they will stand at 10. I think it's highly unlikely they lose more than 2 anyway, 1 the most likely number.

So if you had to guess, who is your pick as the one replacement?
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Hilltop75 Offline
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Post: #133
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
Who cares, The AAC undeafeated champ UCF did not get invited to the 4 team football playoff. So until that changes any conference not named ACC, SEC, Big 10, Big 12 or Pac 12 will never get an invite.

As far as basketball win your conference tourney and you get in the playoff.

The Big 12 refused to expand so this point is moot.
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #134
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(Yesterday 10:11 PM)Hilltop75 Wrote:  As far as basketball win your conference tourney and you get in the playoff.

Right. The at-large bids are really just there for the Top 40 programs to ensure they get included.

The days of slipping in a second mid major from a conference that had a good year are basically over. Maybe you still see it from time to time in the A10 but that is about it.
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Stugray2 Online
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Post: #135
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(Yesterday 09:34 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So if you had to guess, who is your pick as the one replacement?

Well it'd be a WAG out of my butt crack, as I think thye'd go for whomever is hot. I expect FAU to be the hot team this year and maybe next. But in 2024, who knows?

Let me do the MWC first, should they lose Colorado State while the American loses a school.
1) take a stab at BYU again, as a partner with Gonzaga for a powerful 12-12 model more than offsetting losing CSU
2) fall back plan, target Rice and UTEP, possibly both.

Now back to the American. UAB and UMass should be the top schools considered, wild card for ODU. And given all that, and the need for academic fit: Liberty
Falwell, jr. agrees to a $20M entrance fee, $1M per school, the rest Aresco personally pockets :)
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Post: #136
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(Yesterday 09:34 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(Yesterday 08:29 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(Yesterday 04:16 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(Yesterday 12:55 PM)MechaKnight Wrote:  If the AAC loses...

1 school - replace with Army
2 schools - stay at 10 (division format)
3 schools - stay at 9 (round robin format)
4 schools - add Army, stay at 9
5 schools - reorganize with CUSA/SBC

doesn't the aac/bec have a history of just raiding cusa a la carte instead of reorganizing with other conferences???...even though reorging with cusa & sbc does makes sense in theory...

*football schools
2005
University of Cincinnati - CUSA --> Big East Conference (American)
University of Louisville - CUSA --> Big East (American)
University of South Florida - CUSA --> BEC (American)
= 3 teams

2013
University of Central Florida - CUSA --> American Athletic Conference (AAC)
University of Houston - CUSA --> American Athletic (AAC)
University of Memphis - CUSA --> American (AAC)
Southern Methodist University - CUSA --> AAC
= 4 teams

2014
East Carolina University - CUSA --> AAC
Tulane University - CUSA --> AAC
University of Tulsa - CUSA --> AAC
= 3 teams
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conference...er_members

next round will probably be more of the same...a reorg with what's left of CUSA & SBC may feasible...perhaps they could merge into a new southwest conference (SWC)...

Well if you look at the schools that were in CUSA when the last seven who joined the American were still in it (UCF, Houston, SMU, Memphis, ECU, Tulane, Tulsa) they are: UTEP, Rice, USM, UAB, Marshall

That is you short list. UTEP is too remote (Mountain time zone); Marshall is a zero market and recruiting zone (also academically the weakest); Rice overlaps Houston so wont be considered as long as they are around; Southern Miss has the smallest budget and endowment, another tiny market; UAB restarted football, and it has been awhile since they mattered in basketball, but they are the best fit geographically and academically for the American.

I suspect given the "meh" nature of that list, you are likely to see the American look beyond the old CUSA members for replacements. ODU is a well funded new program, although without great success in FBS, which fits nicely as a DMV region school. Army used to be a CUSA member, and would be a welcome addition, but they do not seem to be interested - it would take several years to unload their schedule, and they are worried about competitiveness. UMass is normally a strong Basketball school and academically would near the top, although football they are weak, also New England is an almost worthless recruiting desert. It gets pretty thin after that, with Buffalo and FIU at least checking off the major research university box. Toledo seems to me to be the best of the rest, better funded than the other MAC schools, and one of the stronger academically.

If the AAC went about expansion logically, we could predict it. But they swing widely and are influenced by whomever is hot at the moment, and fixing the last problem, rather than having a game plan. So who they leans toward in 2024 is unpredictable. The list of names above, plus taking a flier at some MWC schools or BYU would be expected, but unlikely to work.

In all I am of the opinion they will only add 1 school if they lose 1 school, in order to keep balanced, and they will only add 1 school if they lose 3, due to the mediocre quality of what they have to choose from. If they lose two they will stand at 10. I think it's highly unlikely they lose more than 2 anyway, 1 the most likely number.

So if you had to guess, who is your pick as the one replacement?

I think they stick at 12 and it depends on who leaves. Relationships matter, so I don't think any of the newbie CUSA members have a chance unless UCF and USF leave. Then FIU and FAU might have a chance.

Some MAC schools might have a chance, given that the 5 former CUSA partners are kind of "meh." But if it was Navy who left (meaning geography isn't a factor promoting a particular candidate), I think it would be 1) USM; 2) Rice; 3) UTEP; 4) Marshall.
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Huskypride Online
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Post: #137
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
id say UB. they are a pretty good school. They have solid bball and decent football. they would also let the aac kept a foothold in ny and the entire north east
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MechaKnight Offline
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Post: #138
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(Yesterday 04:16 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(Yesterday 12:55 PM)MechaKnight Wrote:  If the AAC loses...

1 school - replace with Army
2 schools - stay at 10 (division format)
3 schools - stay at 9 (round robin format)
4 schools - add Army, stay at 9
5 schools - reorganize with CUSA/SBC

doesn't the aac/bec have a history of just raiding cusa a la carte instead of reorganizing with other conferences???...even though reorging with cusa & sbc does makes sense in theory...

Those are more my personal preference. No idea what the conference would actually do. Ultimately what we as fans want out of our conference is...

1) TV contracts that make it easy to watch our favorite team
2) Bowl contracts that provide entertaining matchups
3) Conference mates that provide entertaining matchups

We also want our favorite teams to be competitive, which usually means they need money, but TBH the financial aspect should be secondary for fans. If you can watch your team play entertaining football then don't get wrapped up in how it's financed.

Right now the AAC is meeting those 3 criteria better than any alternative that my school has available. But if the AAC loses enough members there's a point at which that might not be true anymore. Granted at that point I might just lose interest in college athletics altogether.
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #139
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
There are strong favoring for UMass because UConn is heavily promoting them since it would give them a close travel partner.
ODU is spending money at the AAC level.
Southern Mississippi is in because the rest of the AAC schools from C-USA wants them in.
Dayton brings in good basketball.
VCU brings in good basketball. Now, with the money is an issue, the G5 will need to bring in the best basketball schools if they do not have football.

Out?
UAB, the conference are wary of them because of what the BoTs did to them from Alabama.
Marshall, too small of a market.
Middle Tennessee State is still not 100% yet in football.
Charlotte, too young of a program, and still have not win games against FBS teams.
Rice, may not get in if Houston is still there.
La. Tech, small market.
FAU and FIU both suck at football. Last year was not a normal year for them. Wait until they get 4 to 5 straight winning seasons.
Today 04:08 PM
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