(06-05-2018 10:54 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 10:43 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  

Quote:In 1994, U.S. Ambassador-at-Large Robert Gallucci served as the chief U.S. negotiator of the Agreed Framework between President Bill Clinton's administration and Kim Jong Un's father and predecessor, Kim Jong Il.

Under the terms, Pyongyang committed to freezing its illicit plutonium weapons program in exchange for light-water nuclear reactors, heavy fuel and normalized relations with the United States.

"With respect to plutonium, they stuck to the deal," Gallucci, who is now chairman at the U.S.-Korea Institute and a professor at Georgetown University, told CNBC. "The hitch came when we discovered that they were secretly engaged in receiving transfers from Pakistani nuclear scientist A.Q. Khan in uranium enrichment, the other technology used to produce the raw materials for nuclear weapons."

Gallucci said the Clinton administration continued to talk with the North Koreans and didn't inform them that they were aware of the cheating.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/09/diplomat...cheat.html

So who to believe? Redwingtom and an opinion piece from the Atlantic, or the chief negotiator of the Agreed Framework who admits that the N. Koreans were cheating? Decisions decisions.

He really needs to change his name to LeftWingTom.

And you really need to address me personally in cogent responses with actual legitimate discussion points instead of talking at me through other posters with complete .

(06-05-2018 11:22 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 08:29 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  STILL ignorant of the actual Iran deal I see.

Not to mention, it's apples and oranges. Iran does not have nuclear weapons. North Korea does.

P.S.: It wasn't really OUR cash anyway.

Then why did we physically ship the cash to them? That means it was in our possession, correct?

Is money in your Whatever National Bank account yours or theirs?

(06-05-2018 11:22 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 08:29 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  STILL ignorant of the actual Iran deal I see.
Not to mention, it's apples and oranges. Iran does not have nuclear weapons. North Korea does.
P.S.: It wasn't really OUR cash anyway.

Then why did we physically ship the cash to them? That means it was in our possession, correct?
Iran didn't have nuclear weapons? A couple of obvious questions jump right out...
1. How do you know? and
2. Were they trying to develop them?

More importantly:
3. Have they stopped trying to develop them?
4. How do you know?

(06-05-2018 11:23 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 10:23 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  Revisionist history. The deal was flawed, the N. Koreans were cheating and EVERYONE knew it. Same shyte, different country with Iran.

Source? A REAL one.

And nowhere did I claim that NK was not cheating on the AF. In fact, that's the main difference with the Iran deal. It had better safeguards and there is no real evidence they were currently cheating.

Source: U.S. Ambassador-at-Large Robert Gallucci served as the chief U.S. negotiator of the Agreed Framework between President Bill Clinton's administration and Kim Jong Un's father and predecessor, Kim Jong Il.

Good enough?

No real evidence of Iranian cheating? LOL, nice nuance. You could be John Kerry.

Talk to the Israelis. They've offered plenty.

That's the problem with you libs, you're too trusting of our enemies. Ashamed you're not half as suspicious of the Iranians as you are of Trump.

(06-05-2018 11:31 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 11:22 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 08:29 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  STILL ignorant of the actual Iran deal I see.

Not to mention, it's apples and oranges. Iran does not have nuclear weapons. North Korea does.

P.S.: It wasn't really OUR cash anyway.

Then why did we physically ship the cash to them? That means it was in our possession, correct?

Is money in your Whatever National Bank account yours or theirs?

Good question. I wonder how the folks in Cyprus and Greece would answer that question.

BTW, that's what economic socialism is: private ownership, state control.

Will schumer and pelosi be traveling to Singapore to negotiate along side the North Korea delegation?

I can picture it.

(06-05-2018 11:40 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 11:22 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 08:29 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  STILL ignorant of the actual Iran deal I see.
Not to mention, it's apples and oranges. Iran does not have nuclear weapons. North Korea does.
P.S.: It wasn't really OUR cash anyway.

Then why did we physically ship the cash to them? That means it was in our possession, correct?
Iran didn't have nuclear weapons? A couple of obvious questions jump right out...
1. How do you know? and
2. Were they trying to develop them?

More importantly:
3. Have they stopped trying to develop them?
4. How do you know?

What we do know:

Iran tells UN it will hike uranium enrichment capacity

Iran threatens to ‘annihilate’ Israel, as Hezbollah boasts of reach of rockets

What we don't know, and can't know, is what Iran may be doing at any location where they have not granted inspectors access. And Iran is a big country, much bigger than either NK or Iraq, with lots of mountains to hide things under.

What we should have done, back 25 or more years ago, when we had a no-fly zone in effect in Iraq, was the first time the inspectors asked to go to A, B, and C, and the Iraqis said okay for A and B but not for C, then we should have vaporized C. And made it clear that they obviously had something there that they wanted to hide. Make that our way of doing business, and make that understood going forward, and we would have had a lot fewer problems.

(06-05-2018 11:41 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 11:23 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 10:23 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  Revisionist history. The deal was flawed, the N. Koreans were cheating and EVERYONE knew it. Same shyte, different country with Iran.

Source? A REAL one.

And nowhere did I claim that NK was not cheating on the AF. In fact, that's the main difference with the Iran deal. It had better safeguards and there is no real evidence they were currently cheating.

Source: U.S. Ambassador-at-Large Robert Gallucci served as the chief U.S. negotiator of the Agreed Framework between President Bill Clinton's administration and Kim Jong Un's father and predecessor, Kim Jong Il.

Good enough?

No real evidence of Iranian cheating? LOL, nice nuance. You could be John Kerry.

Talk to the Israelis. They've offered plenty.

That's the problem with you libs, you're too trusting of our enemies. Ashamed you're not half as suspicious of the Iranians as you are of Trump.

A source for Iran. And no, Partisan Israeli Bibi putting out details from years ago that I previously provided you with the explanation of why it was bogus, doesn't count.

And bite me, I don't trust either of them and never have. But at least with Iran we HAD the most robust inspection we ever had on them. Was it likely perfect, doubtful, but now we got absolutely nothing just because the orange idiot in charge couldn't handle a success story from his predecessor.

(06-05-2018 11:43 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 11:31 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 11:22 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 08:29 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  STILL ignorant of the actual Iran deal I see.

Not to mention, it's apples and oranges. Iran does not have nuclear weapons. North Korea does.

P.S.: It wasn't really OUR cash anyway.

Then why did we physically ship the cash to them? That means it was in our possession, correct?

Is money in your Whatever National Bank account yours or theirs?

Good question. I wonder how the folks in Cyprus and Greece would answer that question.

BTW, that's what economic socialism is: private ownership, state control.

Irrelevant. And no, we're not Greece. Not even close.

(06-05-2018 01:27 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 11:41 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 11:23 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 10:23 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  Revisionist history. The deal was flawed, the N. Koreans were cheating and EVERYONE knew it. Same shyte, different country with Iran.

Source? A REAL one.

And nowhere did I claim that NK was not cheating on the AF. In fact, that's the main difference with the Iran deal. It had better safeguards and there is no real evidence they were currently cheating.

Source: U.S. Ambassador-at-Large Robert Gallucci served as the chief U.S. negotiator of the Agreed Framework between President Bill Clinton's administration and Kim Jong Un's father and predecessor, Kim Jong Il.

Good enough?

No real evidence of Iranian cheating? LOL, nice nuance. You could be John Kerry.

Talk to the Israelis. They've offered plenty.

That's the problem with you libs, you're too trusting of our enemies. Ashamed you're not half as suspicious of the Iranians as you are of Trump.

A source for Iran. And no, Partisan Israeli Bibi putting out details from years ago that I previously provided you with the explanation of why it was bogus, doesn't count.

And bite me, I don't trust either of them and never have. But at least with Iran we HAD the most robust inspection we ever had on them. Was it likely perfect, doubtful, but now we got absolutely nothing just because the orange idiot in charge couldn't handle a success story from his predecessor.

why do you hate Jew's?

(06-05-2018 01:27 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 11:41 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 11:23 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 10:23 AM)TechRocks Wrote:  Revisionist history. The deal was flawed, the N. Koreans were cheating and EVERYONE knew it. Same shyte, different country with Iran.

Source? A REAL one.

And nowhere did I claim that NK was not cheating on the AF. In fact, that's the main difference with the Iran deal. It had better safeguards and there is no real evidence they were currently cheating.

Source: U.S. Ambassador-at-Large Robert Gallucci served as the chief U.S. negotiator of the Agreed Framework between President Bill Clinton's administration and Kim Jong Un's father and predecessor, Kim Jong Il.

Good enough?

No real evidence of Iranian cheating? LOL, nice nuance. You could be John Kerry.

Talk to the Israelis. They've offered plenty.

That's the problem with you libs, you're too trusting of our enemies. Ashamed you're not half as suspicious of the Iranians as you are of Trump.

A source for Iran. And no, Partisan Israeli Bibi putting out details from years ago that I previously provided you with the explanation of why it was bogus, doesn't count.

And bite me, I don't trust either of them and never have. But at least with Iran we HAD the most robust inspection we ever had on them. Was it likely perfect, doubtful, but now we got absolutely nothing just because the orange idiot in charge couldn't handle a success story from his predecessor.

If the Iran deal was so great as you, Hussein and Kerry claim, WHY COULD THEY NOT GET IT PASSED THROUGH CONGRESS????

YCMTSU!

(06-05-2018 08:24 AM)usmbacker Wrote:  

So where was this tough talk from the Senate Dems when their messiah Obama was bending over and taking it up the azz from Iran while sending them truckloads of our cash?

Quote:Top Senate Democrats told the president Monday that to earn their support, any deal with North Korea must prioritize complete, verifiable denuclearization, include a tough inspections regime, and ensure the elimination of Pyongyang’s ballistic missile program.

Minority leader Chuck Schumer, the top Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee Bob Menendez, and other lawmakers laid out those demands in a letter to President Donald Trump ahead of his planned summit with Kim Jong-un next week in Singapore. If a future potential deal does not meet their conditions, the Democrats warned, Congress “must act as a check” and leverage its sanctions and oversight power.

“Any agreement with North Korea must build on the current nuclear test suspension and ultimately include the dismantlement and removal of all nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons from North Korea,” the lawmakers wrote.

A Democrat-supported agreement must feature “full, complete, and verifiable denuclearization” as its end goal. That includes the permanent dismantlement of Pyongyang’s nuclear weapons infrastructure, such as test sites and research and development facilities.

Sanctions relief must be contingent on the dismantlement of North Korea’s nuclear and ballistic missile programs, they added. “Any deal that explicitly or implicitly gives North Korea sanctions relief for anything other than the verifiable performance of its obligations to dismantle its nuclear and missile arsenal is a bad deal.”

The lawmakers said an agreement must also involve the suspension of ballistic missile testing, “including any space launch,” and the elimination of that program.

Keep reading here.

Or what, Democrats will send them cash and a schedule to legally build them?

Lmao.

Truth be told Hussein and Clinton were only after accolades for their great foreign policy accomplishments. Deal didn’t matter as long as it got done.
You can’t build a Trump Tower like that. It will eventually collapse. Trump knows this and I believe he will apply real world common sense to solve this problem. This is where the absence of a career in politics is just what the doctor ordered.

(06-05-2018 01:27 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  And bite me, I don't trust either of them and never have. But at least with Iran we HAD the most robust inspection we ever had on them. Was it likely perfect, doubtful, but now we got absolutely nothing just because the orange idiot in charge couldn't handle a success story from his predecessor.

Thanks for confirming who you view as the real enemy.

(06-05-2018 01:29 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 11:43 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 11:31 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 11:22 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 08:29 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  STILL ignorant of the actual Iran deal I see.

Not to mention, it's apples and oranges. Iran does not have nuclear weapons. North Korea does.

P.S.: It wasn't really OUR cash anyway.

Then why did we physically ship the cash to them? That means it was in our possession, correct?

Is money in your Whatever National Bank account yours or theirs?

Good question. I wonder how the folks in Cyprus and Greece would answer that question.

BTW, that's what economic socialism is: private ownership, state control.

Irrelevant. And no, we're not Greece. Not even close.

And you can thank true patriots who won't let us get that way -- even though the radleft/Democrats/RINOs keep trying to take us there.

(06-05-2018 02:13 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 01:29 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 11:43 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 11:31 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 11:22 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  Then why did we physically ship the cash to them? That means it was in our possession, correct?

Is money in your Whatever National Bank account yours or theirs?

Good question. I wonder how the folks in Cyprus and Greece would answer that question.

BTW, that's what economic socialism is: private ownership, state control.

Irrelevant. And no, we're not Greece. Not even close.

And you can thank true patriots who won't let us get that way -- even though the radleft/Democrats/RINOs keep trying to take us there.

Ridiculous.

(06-05-2018 02:04 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 01:27 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  And bite me, I don't trust either of them and never have. But at least with Iran we HAD the most robust inspection we ever had on them. Was it likely perfect, doubtful, but now we got absolutely nothing just because the orange idiot in charge couldn't handle a success story from his predecessor.

Thanks for confirming who you view as the real enemy.

You're being ridiculous.

The Dems are playing politics with this but then again they have to.

(06-05-2018 01:27 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  And bite me, I don't trust either of them and never have. But at least with Iran we HAD the most robust inspection we ever had on them. Was it likely perfect, doubtful, but now we got absolutely nothing just because the orange idiot in charge couldn't handle a success story from his predecessor.

Best we ever had, but still not very good. And we released a whole bunch of cash to then, that they apparently used to fund terror attacks.

It's fine to want, "complete, verifiable denuclearization." I want that too. It's not fine to pretend we had that with Iran. Because we didn't.