(06-02-2018 05:54 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  The whole [serious] thing the OP put at the beginning of his question strikes me as a non sequitur and a device which (to me) suggests he really doesn't want a response. He may as well have written [sarcasm] because that's how I read it at least.

So you don't know either. Lol

(06-02-2018 08:28 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 06:47 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I'll provide a quick answer before I go to work. Maybe I'll do a more detailed response later tonight.
But I want to reign in Trump plain and simple. I don't trust him and I think his ego will be even more out of control if the midterms don't demonstrate the public sentiment is against him.
The last president to have complete control of Congress for his whole term was Carter. We all know how that ended. A president with control of Congress for his whole term has worked out okay on occasion (Lincoln, FDR, JFK) but it hasn't worked out that great most of the other times (LBJ, Harding, Coolidge).

This post seems symbolic. Democrats are out of ideas. Their only answer is to bash Trump.

Problem is that republicans are fresh out of ideas too. So their only idea is to bash democrats.

We have problems. We need solutions. But neither side has anything useful in the way of solutions.

Gun violence. Democrats propose "assault weapons bans" and "background checks" and "gun registration," none of which would make a significant dent in the problem. Republicans propose noting. This one I find particularly annoying, since I think continued lack of ideas from republicans will lead democrats to impose some truly draconian regulations.

Health care. Democrats passed the nightmare that is Obamacare. Republicans promised to repeal and replace, but so far noting.

Federal budget. Democrats push for deficit reduction when out of office, but increase the deficit when in office. Republicans do the same.

Wash, rinse, and repeat. If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

My post tells why I did not vote for Hillary of Trump. They both are against the little guys. Trump have been in bed with both parties for a long time. He champions the rich then the little guy. His tariffs against the world will cause a tarrifs war which would cost a lot of jobs, sky rocketing of prices, and could lead us to another Great Depression. We did the exact same thing in 1920s which lead us to the Great Depression.

(06-02-2018 08:28 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Gun violence. Democrats propose "assault weapons bans" and "background checks" and "gun registration," none of which would make a significant dent in the problem. Republicans propose noting. This one I find particularly annoying, since I think continued lack of ideas from republicans will lead democrats to impose some truly draconian regulations.

https://www.cornyn.senate.gov/es/es/cont...system-act

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/375802...w-gun-laws

The second is the most important because if you aren't enforcing existing laws what leads you to think you are going to enforce new ones?


No matter how many times you repeat the same old talking point it isn't going to be true.

(06-02-2018 05:02 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 08:28 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 06:47 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I'll provide a quick answer before I go to work. Maybe I'll do a more detailed response later tonight.
But I want to reign in Trump plain and simple. I don't trust him and I think his ego will be even more out of control if the midterms don't demonstrate the public sentiment is against him.
The last president to have complete control of Congress for his whole term was Carter. We all know how that ended. A president with control of Congress for his whole term has worked out okay on occasion (Lincoln, FDR, JFK) but it hasn't worked out that great most of the other times (LBJ, Harding, Coolidge).

This post seems symbolic. Democrats are out of ideas. Their only answer is to bash Trump.

Problem is that republicans are fresh out of ideas too. So their only idea is to bash democrats.

We have problems. We need solutions. But neither side has anything useful in the way of solutions.

Gun violence. Democrats propose "assault weapons bans" and "background checks" and "gun registration," none of which would make a significant dent in the problem. Republicans propose noting. This one I find particularly annoying, since I think continued lack of ideas from republicans will lead democrats to impose some truly draconian regulations.

Health care. Democrats passed the nightmare that is Obamacare. Republicans promised to repeal and replace, but so far noting.

Federal budget. Democrats push for deficit reduction when out of office, but increase the deficit when in office. Republicans do the same.

Wash, rinse, and repeat. If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

My post tells why I did not vote for Hillary of Trump. They both are against the little guys. Trump have been in bed with both parties for a long time. He champions the rich then the little guy. His tariffs against the world will cause a tarrifs war which would cost a lot of jobs, sky rocketing of prices, and could lead us to another Great Depression. We did the exact same thing in 1920s which lead us to the Great Depression.

Which candidate in the 2016 election was "for the little guy"?

Theoretically speaking, Democrats should improve school conditions (for your grandson, if necessary) and infrastructure via higher spending levels and interest in those areas. Unfortunately, they aren't holding their word. America has noticed.

Democrats for the little man



Lol

(06-01-2018 10:53 AM)bobdizole Wrote:  I once asked one of my left leaning co-workers this one time. What can you say to a conservative to ever have them consider voting democratic? She said well I start with a question, do you in any way think in any way the fruits of your labor should be shared with those less fortunate? If no, this conversation is over. If yes, let's discuss ways that it can be done fairly and efficiently.

It's a shame that the democratic party has been taken over by the ultra-progressives. There are reasonable democrats out there, but their voices have been silenced by the leaders of the party. Not every democrat is a socialist, that's just what the party has become and is why middle-left is being pushed middle-right

Why does the government have to get involved in charity? Some Christians do it happily and willingly. I don't want a communist type of government where THEY think that they know what's best for me and many of us. As for the government putting their nose in my money it already does by way of SS taxes and other taxes in general. These do gooders aren't any better than Demoncraptic leader in that they want to use my (our) money for THEIR purpose and that's to keep voters. Screw them.

(06-02-2018 05:02 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 08:28 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 06:47 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I'll provide a quick answer before I go to work. Maybe I'll do a more detailed response later tonight.
But I want to reign in Trump plain and simple. I don't trust him and I think his ego will be even more out of control if the midterms don't demonstrate the public sentiment is against him.
The last president to have complete control of Congress for his whole term was Carter. We all know how that ended. A president with control of Congress for his whole term has worked out okay on occasion (Lincoln, FDR, JFK) but it hasn't worked out that great most of the other times (LBJ, Harding, Coolidge).

This post seems symbolic. Democrats are out of ideas. Their only answer is to bash Trump.

Problem is that republicans are fresh out of ideas too. So their only idea is to bash democrats.

We have problems. We need solutions. But neither side has anything useful in the way of solutions.

Gun violence. Democrats propose "assault weapons bans" and "background checks" and "gun registration," none of which would make a significant dent in the problem. Republicans propose noting. This one I find particularly annoying, since I think continued lack of ideas from republicans will lead democrats to impose some truly draconian regulations.

Health care. Democrats passed the nightmare that is Obamacare. Republicans promised to repeal and replace, but so far noting.

Federal budget. Democrats push for deficit reduction when out of office, but increase the deficit when in office. Republicans do the same.

Wash, rinse, and repeat. If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

My post tells why I did not vote for Hillary of Trump. They both are against the little guys. Trump have been in bed with both parties for a long time. He champions the rich then the little guy. His tariffs against the world will cause a tarrifs war which would cost a lot of jobs, sky rocketing of prices, and could lead us to another Great Depression. We did the exact same thing in 1920s which lead us to the Great Depression.

Instead of telling us what you heard on CNN how about you giving examples of loss of jobs and sky rocketing of prices?

If you are talking gas prices it's went up .37 cents a gallon since March. So if you want to put that on Trump then maybe you can explain why in that same 3 months gas went up .73 cents in Canada?

David St., where do you work? How many years of your life have you worked?

(06-02-2018 06:47 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I'll provide a quick answer before I go to work. Maybe I'll do a more detailed response later tonight.

But I want to reign in Trump plain and simple. I don't trust him and I think his ego will be even more out of control if the midterms don't demonstrate the public sentiment is against him.

The last president to have complete control of Congress for his whole term was Carter. We all know how that ended. A president with control of Congress for his whole term has worked out okay on occasion (Lincoln, FDR, JFK) but it hasn't worked out that great most of the other times (LBJ, Harding, Coolidge).

What "whole term" did JFK ever work out?

Do you even do History?!?

My goodness.

I seriously want DavidSt to tell me which 2016 Presidential candidate was for the "little guy" and why.

(06-02-2018 07:32 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 10:53 AM)bobdizole Wrote:  I once asked one of my left leaning co-workers this one time. What can you say to a conservative to ever have them consider voting democratic? She said well I start with a question, do you in any way think in any way the fruits of your labor should be shared with those less fortunate? If no, this conversation is over. If yes, let's discuss ways that it can be done fairly and efficiently.

It's a shame that the democratic party has been taken over by the ultra-progressives. There are reasonable democrats out there, but their voices have been silenced by the leaders of the party. Not every democrat is a socialist, that's just what the party has become and is why middle-left is being pushed middle-right

Why does the government have to get involved in charity? Some Christians do it happily and willingly. I don't want a communist type of government where THEY think that they know what's best for me and many of us. As for the government putting their nose in my money it already does by way of SS taxes and other taxes in general. These do gooders aren't any better than Demoncraptic leader in that they want to use my (our) money for THEIR purpose and that's to keep voters. Screw them.

But of course the correct response would have been "Well, of course the fruits of my labor are already shared. Every 2 weeks."

Drop mic, walk away

(06-02-2018 05:15 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 08:28 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Gun violence. Democrats propose "assault weapons bans" and "background checks" and "gun registration," none of which would make a significant dent in the problem. Republicans propose noting. This one I find particularly annoying, since I think continued lack of ideas from republicans will lead democrats to impose some truly draconian regulations.

https://www.cornyn.senate.gov/es/es/cont...system-act
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/375802...w-gun-laws
The second is the most important because if you aren't enforcing existing laws what leads you to think you are going to enforce new ones?
No matter how many times you repeat the same old talking point it isn't going to be true.

And I agree with both those points. But they haven't really pushed them, or anything else to address the issue, with great vigor. I think they should be out in front, making it very clear that none of the steps being proposed by what I'll call the James Hogg crowd will do anything to reduce school shootings.

If you really want to reduce mass shootings, eliminate soft targets. You can't post "gun free zone" signs anywhere unless you can control access and provide armed security to enforce it.

Make law enforcement do their job. If they don't, then they're going to be on national TV before congressional committee answering questions they don't want to answer. That resource officer who didn't go into the building? Subpoena him and put him on national TV to explain why he didn't do is job. Same with the sheriff and the superintendent and whoever didn't act on the call at the FBI. You screw up, we're going to embarrass your ass on national TV.

Maybe my criticism of republicans on this issue is more fairly characterized as not really pushing anything vigorously. They certainly haven't been out front with anything to the extent that the Hogg crowd has.

And I'm serious, if they keep allowing the perception of doing nothing to persist, they are going to hand this issue to democrats on a silver platter. Leading from behind on this issue is going to end up with draconian gun controls. They do this all the time, and it irritates the crap out of me.

I'm 50+ posts late to the party, but I'd answer the OP question with "It depends on which democrat".

On the federal level, I'm more likely to side with the Republican or Libertarian candidates, mainly because I don't think we need a large federal government. Republicans have often failed to walk the walk after talking the talk about limiting spending though, which frustrates me.

I'm much more open-minded on the local level, where I feel I can see the fruits of my taxes a bit better.

There are some fantastic democrats at the local level here in Wake County that are tax and budget conscious and want to build up our parks and improve public transportation. There are also some that have the same goals but are willing to tax and spend whatever it takes. You kind of have to get to know the candidates.

(06-01-2018 10:44 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  Can I flip the question around?

I'm a gay, recent college grad millennial who doesn't own guns who works two jobs to cover my living expenses and pay off my loans:

My degree job: a civil engineer who designs steel structures at entry level pay. (President Trump just imposed tariffs on steel imports which will hurt my business)
My side job: a server at a restaurant on weekends. I don't have to worry about making credit card payments, student loan payments, and car loan payments to help maintain my credit and I can build my savings.

My wages were not increased despite the tax break my company got.

I commute to work every day of the week (those gas prices though).

I get a basic level of healthcare through my degree job, but would absolutely have to pay out of pocket if I went to a hospital for whatever accident or surgery.

The contractors that my company works with sometimes exploit illegal immigrants for cheap labor. It's wrong, and illegal immigration is a problem, but my bonuses stay high because of it.

I also work closely with environmental agencies and plan to pursue that career path one day.

Taking the above into consideration, here's what I'm interested in:
-student loan forgiveness/affordable education
-replacing my healthcare premiums with a tax that everyone pays
-being able to marry and start a family with whomever I want
-protecting the environment for my job and my future children

Things that don't matter to me:
-illegal immigration
-abortion
-people on welfare
-"the race war"
-Christian values

So what does Conservative Christiandom and Trickle-Down Economics have to offer me?

For starters, having been one who paid my own student loans off, I must say, I fail to see how that now becomes my job to pay off/forgive yours. People know full well how much college costs. We all make choices in life and while you seem to have chosen a good career, many others do not. Their bad decisions shouldn't make the rest of us liable.

Getting back to the question, the things you care about and those you say you don't are more closely tied that you might think. There's only so much money in the proverbial pie. Unless your plan is to confiscate all assets/worth, we need to make tough choices to figure out how to spend that pie in a manner which benefits the majority of the people. The more money we spend on welfare, the less money there is to go to other areas. Entitlements are going to have to be addresses, that's a fact. It's not right (or fair) that you are asked to pay more and more for your healthcare (for example) PLUS pay for others who contribute nothing. Even your tax idea won't be paid by everyone. I come from the camp that if you want a say, then you should have skin in the game.

That brings us to illegals. Excessive amounts of cheap labor drives wages down. It might not be as big an issue with skilled labor and positions which require an education, but it is for MANY of those "middle class" jobs. Drive down wages, hire illegals, more citizens make less or don't have work, and that quickly circles back around to welfare and the money it drains from the economy. They're not mutually exclusive problems.

As for social issues, please try and separate the "Christian right" from the rest of us. Many people in the GOP such as myself don't care who you marry or who you want to start a family with. None of my business. It IS a place where people who are willing to talk can come together.

Just some thought.

(06-01-2018 10:53 AM)bobdizole Wrote:  I once asked one of my left leaning co-workers this one time. What can you say to a conservative to ever have them consider voting democratic? She said well I start with a question, do you in any way think in any way the fruits of your labor should be shared with those less fortunate? If no, this conversation is over. If yes, let's discuss ways that it can be done fairly and efficiently.

It's a shame that the democratic party has been taken over by the ultra-progressives. There are reasonable democrats out there, but their voices have been silenced by the leaders of the party. Not every democrat is a socialist, that's just what the party has become and is why middle-left is being pushed middle-right

(06-01-2018 12:27 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 10:44 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  Can I flip the question around?

I'm a gay, recent college grad millennial who doesn't own guns who works two jobs to cover my living expenses and pay off my loans:

My degree job: a civil engineer who designs steel structures at entry level pay. (President Trump just imposed tariffs on steel imports which will hurt my business)
My side job: a server at a restaurant on weekends. I don't have to worry about making credit card payments, student loan payments, and car loan payments to help maintain my credit and I can build my savings.

My wages were not increased despite the tax break my company got.

I commute to work every day of the week (those gas prices though).

I get a basic level of healthcare through my degree job, but would absolutely have to pay out of pocket if I went to a hospital for whatever accident or surgery.

The contractors that my company works with sometimes exploit illegal immigrants for cheap labor. It's wrong, and illegal immigration is a problem, but my bonuses stay high because of it.

I also work closely with environmental agencies and plan to pursue that career path one day.

Taking the above into consideration, here's what I'm interested in:
1-student loan forgiveness/affordable education
2-replacing my healthcare premiums with a tax that everyone pays
3-being able to marry and start a family with whomever I want
4-protecting the environment for my job and my future children

Things that don't matter to me:
5-illegal immigration
6-abortion
7-people on welfare
8-"the race war"
9-Christian values

So what does Conservative Christiandom and Trickle-Down Economics have to offer me?

1...Let me ask you why you think others should pay their hard earn money to educate you? You chose your field of work and the education to get into that field. So why should the people working at WalMart pay for your choices?

2...As for healthcare premiums you want everyone to pay the same as you. Why? Does everyone pay the same Auto insurance rates? How about life insurance?. Each of those should be PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITIES. Not a one price fits all.

3..Is there a place in America you can't marry anyone you want and raise a family? Lets be honest, most people do not care about who you choose to love. You will not get 100% acceptance....no one does.

4...As for protecting the environment for your job and future children. What makes you think YOUR ideal of protection is the correct one? Again, you are being selfish and not caring if controls affect someone else job. Seems like You are not looking for a balance.

Now for the things you dont care about

5..illegal immigration, so again it's all about me when it comes to this problem. You don't worry about the blue collar trades that is actually building the things you design. Nope not as long as you get a bigger bonus. So you are worried that the men doing the hard work is getting paid less hourly because of the hiring of illegal people crossing our borders.....Nope not as long as I get mine

My friend that is the NUMBER ONE reason most blue collar worker grew up as democrats and why it's starting to change. Democrats no longer carry about those hard working people trying to make a living with their hands.

6..Now for abortion. So you care if your child has a good environment but you really dont care if a woman decides to end that child's life before you take ownership. OK, leave it at that

7..You dont care about people on welfare and I assume you mean that about the number of people. Because if you really don't care...you are more selfish than you sound....me me me is all that matters to you.

illegal immigration is a major cause of lower wages...less workers means wages go up across the board. As we are seeing today. With higher wages, welfare goes down. That should be something you care about. But then again...it affects your bonus. I want a safety net for those that truly need it but not something people live on for most of their life. That is what your President is trying to reform. Work, earn your way and if you still need help it will be their for you. But first off...HELP YOURSELF. Today we have more jobs and wages are going up....WalMart went from $9 a hour to $11 since your President took office.

8..The "the race war" this started over the past 8 years with the former President. It's also a reason a lot of people switched their vote. A lot of those that did switch voted democrat and elected #44

9..values. Why dont you care? I don't know how to take 'you dont care". You dont think other people have the right to make up their own minds? Or you dont care what they do?


I'm going to be honest, you sound very selfish and now want others to help pay for choices you made. You took out the loans to get your degree. Why should I help pay for those just so you can earn more money?

Why should I pay more for my health insurance just to help reduce your cost?

Why should you get a larger bonus because of something illegal and those actually doing the building make less money because of it?

If that is what Democrats are today......it makes me wonder where my party went to. More and more people are thinking that also.

There in lies the problem.

No one ever stops to ask WHY the person is "less fortunate". No one ever stops to ask what the "less fortunate" is doing to help THEMSELVES first.

When I got out of school, I had no job and student loans to pay off. I eventually found work and for the next 15 years worked 2-3 jobs to get on my feet and put myself in a position to succeed. Sorry, but if the "less fortunate" are unwilling to sacrifice the same way I did, then NO, I feel no need to share (more like government confiscating) the fruits of my labor.

When the "less fortunate" prove they've given up

beer
cigarettes
cable tv
I-Phones
video games
etc.
etc.

Then come back to me about sharing......

Bernie Sanders or Jill Stien. Bernie have voted against those free trades in the first place. Trump is actually for free trade that benefits him.

(06-03-2018 07:57 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  And I agree with both those points. But they haven't really pushed them, or anything else to address the issue, with great vigor. I think they should be out in front, making it very clear that none of the steps being proposed by what I'll call the James Hogg crowd will do anything to reduce school shootings.

You must not be paying attention.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat...02be787d29

Quote:Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced Monday that U.S. attorneys will more aggressively enforce the law that makes it a crime for gun buyers to lie on their federal background checks, one of several steps Justice Department officials outlined as part of the Trump administration’s response to last month’s deadly school shooting in Parkland, Fla.

http://www.newsweek.com/sessions-doj-jus...ors-643518

Quote:Earlier this month nine residents of Savannah, Georgia, were charged with federal gun crimes ranging from possession of a firearm by a convicted felon to possession of a sawed-off shotgun. While announcing the arrests, the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of Georgia connected the charges to a push by Attorney General Jeff Sessions to cut down on violent crime by prioritizing firearms offenses.

“Earlier this year, Attorney General Jeff Sessions instructed U. S. attorneys’ offices to identify those responsible for significant violent crime in our communities, and if the decision is made to pursue federal charges, to utilize the substantial tools available under federal law to prosecute those offenders,” Acting U. S. Attorney James Durham said in a statement. “The indictments returned last week aren’t the first federal indictments, and they certainly won’t be the last, as we work together to take back this great city from those spreading violence and fear.”

The number of people charged with unlawful possession of a firearm rose by about 23 percent in the second quarter of 2017 compared to the same period last year, to 2,637 from 2,149, the Department of Justice said in a press release Friday morning. That period includes April, May and June, the months after Sessions sent a memo to DOJ prosecutors in March ordering them to focus on gun charges.

(06-03-2018 08:00 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Bernie Sanders or Jill Stien. Bernie have voted against those free trades in the first place. Trump is actually for free trade that benefits him.

Bernie Sanders and Jill Stein may have said they were for the little guy but both would have enacted policies that would have destroyed our economy. That isn't in the best interest of the little guy no matter what the rhetoric.

(06-03-2018 08:00 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Bernie Sanders or Jill Stien. Bernie have voted against those free trades in the first place. Trump is actually for free trade that benefits him.

How about you giving example of "Trump is actually for free trade that benefits him"? While you're at it give some examples of how Bernie Sanders or Jill Stien is for the "little guy"?

You keep making statements like that but never answer when called out...

put some freaking effort into it like you do when it's about a TV or movie star or show or movie