I'm not disagreeing about the cop being a dick.

However, saying the cop should just let it go isnt the answer. Part of the reason they are there is because the underage drinking gets out of control, and the locals demand an end to it and complain to the mayor about it, and the mayor tells the cops to go get it under control.

(05-31-2018 03:45 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 03:34 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 03:07 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 02:48 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 02:38 PM)solohawks Wrote:  But she was with family who was above age who could possess it. Plus she blew a 0 so she was clearly not drinking.

Being with family couldnt be verified, because she refused to give her name or show an ID. Had she done that and it was shown that her PARENTS (not family members, but legal guardians) were there with her, then she could have avoided a citation.

Drinking and possessing are two different charges. It doesnt matter if she blew a 0, if she had a cup of alcohol in her hand, then she better be sitting next to her mom and dad, or she's guilty of possession.

she was 20. she has no legal guardian.

from what I read, it was a closed container that no one was physically possessing.

Correct, which simply means she can not possess alcohol.

She admitted in another interview it was her alcohol.

For the purposes of the immediate situation what she admitted after the fact is irrelevant. Officer had no reason to disbelieve her story. If her aunt was taking too long to show up she should have been told to dump it out or accept a possession ticket

Instead she got defensive and officer turned into robocop

Her story does not absolve her of the possession of alcohol charge. She gets a citation, and her story is told to a judge.

When she gets in front of a judge, and her aunt tells her side of the story, and if the woman has no other priors, then the judge would probably tell her to volunteer for 4 hours at a pet shelter and the whole thing is forgotten.

Now she has a felony assault on her record, and her alcohol days are coming to a complete end. As they probably should, because if she is a raging superbitch when sober, I'd hate to see the sh*t she's capable of drunk.

(05-31-2018 06:44 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 03:45 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 03:34 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 03:07 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 02:48 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Being with family couldnt be verified, because she refused to give her name or show an ID. Had she done that and it was shown that her PARENTS (not family members, but legal guardians) were there with her, then she could have avoided a citation.

Drinking and possessing are two different charges. It doesnt matter if she blew a 0, if she had a cup of alcohol in her hand, then she better be sitting next to her mom and dad, or she's guilty of possession.

she was 20. she has no legal guardian.

from what I read, it was a closed container that no one was physically possessing.

Correct, which simply means she can not possess alcohol.

She admitted in another interview it was her alcohol.

For the purposes of the immediate situation what she admitted after the fact is irrelevant. Officer had no reason to disbelieve her story. If her aunt was taking too long to show up she should have been told to dump it out or accept a possession ticket

Instead she got defensive and officer turned into robocop

Her story does not absolve her of the possession of alcohol charge. She gets a citation, and her story is told to a judge.

When she gets in front of a judge, and her aunt tells her side of the story, and if the woman has no other priors, then the judge would probably tell her to volunteer for 4 hours at a pet shelter and the whole thing is forgotten.

Now she has a felony assault on her record, and her alcohol days are coming to a complete end. As they probably should, because if she is a raging superbitch when sober, I'd hate to see the sh*t she's capable of drunk.

Better ways to get her name then just sat screw this, place her under arrest, and cause a scene. Officers should deescalate. "Maam I realize this is frustrating but we have been waiting for your aunt for a reasonable amount of time and she is not here. Please empty the container or I will have no choice but to give you a possession citation."

Instead he turned into robocop, pinned her on the ground, beat her on the head with a close fist while HE was on top of HER and cause a major scene that now everyone is aware of.

Because of bad policing, the department is getting bad PR , all officers are under major scrutiny, and the woman is probably going to get a nice settlement. I highly doubt any DA wants to take this to trial so I doubt any felony charges will stick

(05-31-2018 06:36 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  I'm not disagreeing about the cop being a dick.

However, saying the cop should just let it go isnt the answer. Part of the reason they are there is because the underage drinking gets out of control, and the locals demand an end to it and complain to the mayor about it, and the mayor tells the cops to go get it under control.

I don't think harassing a 20 year old sitting alone causing no probleme addresses the underage drinking problem. I have no doubt it is a big issue there, but if I'm the mayor, I'm telling the cops to address poor behavior.

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(05-31-2018 06:10 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Both parties are in the wrong. She was being disrespectful and the cop was being kinda a dick. He could've confiscated the drinks and moved on.

He beat the crap out of an unarmed 90 Lb. woman. Honestly, what else needs to be said. Protect and serve...my @ss. Would you hang out with this guy?

(05-31-2018 07:42 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 06:10 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Both parties are in the wrong. She was being disrespectful and the cop was being kinda a dick. He could've confiscated the drinks and moved on.

He beat the crap out of an unarmed 90 Lb. woman. Honestly, what else needs to be said. Protect and serve...my @ss. Would you hang out with this guy?

It will be interesting to see the ultimate outcome

(05-31-2018 06:44 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 03:45 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 03:34 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 03:07 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 02:48 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Being with family couldnt be verified, because she refused to give her name or show an ID. Had she done that and it was shown that her PARENTS (not family members, but legal guardians) were there with her, then she could have avoided a citation.

Drinking and possessing are two different charges. It doesnt matter if she blew a 0, if she had a cup of alcohol in her hand, then she better be sitting next to her mom and dad, or she's guilty of possession.

she was 20. she has no legal guardian.

from what I read, it was a closed container that no one was physically possessing.

Correct, which simply means she can not possess alcohol.

She admitted in another interview it was her alcohol.

For the purposes of the immediate situation what she admitted after the fact is irrelevant. Officer had no reason to disbelieve her story. If her aunt was taking too long to show up she should have been told to dump it out or accept a possession ticket

Instead she got defensive and officer turned into robocop

Her story does not absolve her of the possession of alcohol charge. She gets a citation, and her story is told to a judge.

When she gets in front of a judge, and her aunt tells her side of the story, and if the woman has no other priors, then the judge would probably tell her to volunteer for 4 hours at a pet shelter and the whole thing is forgotten.

Now she has a felony assault on her record, and her alcohol days are coming to a complete end. As they probably should, because if she is a raging superbitch when sober, I'd hate to see the sh*t she's capable of drunk.

lol...a superb point. +3 That said...tackling and fist beating a 90 pound chick who wasn't bothering anyone isn't the key to safe classy beaches. That officer has seriously deficient decision making abilities.

(05-31-2018 04:30 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  this all could have been avoided if she had given her name out. play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

He was writing a ticket. That's why he wanted her name. Police officer is playing stupid games.

(05-31-2018 05:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 05:27 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  I've never had a cop help me even once. Never met one who wasn't a complete @sshole. I avoid interacting with the police at all cost. And teach my family members the same.

Nah. Ive met lots of great ones. I know several and am very impressed with the job they do---so Im always super respectful whenever I come into contact with the police. Ive had a couple that were jerks none the less---but thats extremely rare. Follow thier instructions and be respectful and you'll be fine. I'd say close to half the time I get pulled over I dont get written up even though I was wrong (lol....usually speeding). Just remember, you never know what they might have seen just a few minutes before. They might have just come from a speeding accident that caused a child fatality for instance. Bottom line---you aint going to win an argument with a cop on the side of a road---so dont even bother trying. Be respectful--tell the truth---and sometimes they will be cool about it (and sometimes they wont).

Yeah. Some great ones. Some ********. Some you don't know where they've just been.

Don't poke the bear. She really wasn't poking him, but was asking questions. He was just out to nail her.

(05-31-2018 08:43 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 04:30 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  this all could have been avoided if she had given her name out. play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

He was writing a ticket. That's why he wanted her name. Police officer is playing stupid games.

I guess she's lucky he didn't pull his gun out and pop her one. That seems to be all the rage today. This guy should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If not, there is no justice. I get pissed watching men beat-up on women. Seen too much of it in my life.

(05-31-2018 08:43 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 04:30 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  this all could have been avoided if she had given her name out. play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

He was writing a ticket. That's why he wanted her name. Police officer is playing stupid games.

Enforcing the law is "stupid games'?

(05-31-2018 07:42 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 06:10 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Both parties are in the wrong. She was being disrespectful and the cop was being kinda a dick. He could've confiscated the drinks and moved on.

He beat the crap out of an unarmed 90 Lb. woman. Honestly, what else needs to be said. Protect and serve...my @ss. Would you hang out with this guy?

Look I'm not defending the cop at all.

(05-31-2018 09:29 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 08:43 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 04:30 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  this all could have been avoided if she had given her name out. play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

He was writing a ticket. That's why he wanted her name. Police officer is playing stupid games.

Enforcing the law is "stupid games'?

Trying to prove his power over her. She was delaying and he quickly decided to arrest her. Then he beat her up when she was clearly scared of him. Stupid game.

(05-31-2018 10:04 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 09:29 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 08:43 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 04:30 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  this all could have been avoided if she had given her name out. play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

He was writing a ticket. That's why he wanted her name. Police officer is playing stupid games.

Enforcing the law is "stupid games'?

Trying to prove his power over her. She was delaying and he quickly decided to arrest her. Then he beat her up when she was clearly scared of him. Stupid game.

I guess you are forgetting about the part where she kicked him in the nuts and spat at him. Like I said, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.


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(05-31-2018 10:04 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 09:29 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 08:43 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 04:30 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  this all could have been avoided if she had given her name out. play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

He was writing a ticket. That's why he wanted her name. Police officer is playing stupid games.

Enforcing the law is "stupid games'?

Trying to prove his power over her. She was delaying and he quickly decided to arrest her. Then he beat her up when she was clearly scared of him. Stupid game.

She was going to get a ticket where she could plead her case in the proper location, a courtroom. A ticket is technically an arrest and when she refused to cooperate by giving her name that is technically resisting arrest. He asked her multiple chances to give her name and she refused and even said "You are going to have to lock me up." She then initiated physicality when she assaulted the police officer, and continued assaulting the police officer during the arrest with kicks and spitting on the officer. News flash...if you can talk you aren't being choked.

Had she simply given her name she would have got a ticket and would have been able to enjoy the rest of her day. She would have had a chance later to plead her case on a simple misdemeanor to the only person who can decide if she is truly innocent or guilty..a judge. She chose to refuse lawful orders, she chose to initiate the physical altercation and she lost. Now because of her choices she can plead her case on felony charges os assault on a police officer and resisting arrest in addition to the original misdemeanor charge.

UTSA and Kap, did the woman initiate contact? My recollection of the video, he said you're under arrest after she refused to provide her name. She freaked out and moved away from the officer, he lunged at her and it escalated very rapidly.

Also, assuming everything the officer did was legal, is that officers behavior an example of good policing?

another example of line 4.....what a fk'n idiot

(06-01-2018 12:08 AM)solohawks Wrote:  UTSA and Kap, did the woman initiate contact? My recollection of the video, he said you're under arrest after she refused to provide her name. She freaked out and moved away from the officer, he lunged at her and it escalated very rapidly.

Also, assuming everything the officer did was legal, is that officers behavior an example of good policing?

which is easily arguable.....

(06-01-2018 12:08 AM)solohawks Wrote:  UTSA and Kap, did the woman initiate contact? My recollection of the video, he said you're under arrest after she refused to provide her name. She freaked out and moved away from the officer, he lunged at her and it escalated very rapidly.

Also, assuming everything the officer did was legal, is that officers behavior an example of good policing?

Yes, she initiated contact as it pertains to assault. He informed her she was under arrest and any movement from that point on was an attempt to secure her.

Without knowing the specific municipal code and the importance placed upon the PD by town hall I can't say for sure in regards to the law. If town hall tells you "Strictly enforce this law" you have two choices as a municipal police officer: Do as they say or find employment elsewhere.

While I might have been a little more cordial initially in this incident nothing in this officer's conduct condones physically assaulting a police officer during an arrest. Easiest part of my law enforcement training was being taught verbal control methods because I had already learned it in my fire service leadership classes. The overwhelming majority of times I hear someone say "That cop was being a dick" it's actually them following their training. It's a method of verbal control....when you sound authoritative people tend to comply. We actually tested it on the fire service side during some training drills and had experienced personnel follow orders that violated SOP simply based on how they were issued over the radio.

The part that really concerns me is the "It was a 90 lb female". I really wish I could take those people out on the street and have then deal with an actual 90lb female who is assaulting them. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that they would have a change of heart. I understand, I was raised the same way many of them were in that you don't hit a woman. I got out on the street with the FD and I understood that was just like Hansel and Gretel, a fairy tale. I absolutely got my ass whipped on a medical call one night by a woman who I had eight inches and 80lbs on. Came home the next morning and told my wife she could slap me all she wanted, once it got past an open faced slap I would drop her like a bad habit. Chivalry is well and good in theory......work the streets and you'll discover it's really dead.

All this said I expect when it's said and done the town will either fire the officer or there will be a mutual separation simply because of public relations. This is an unfortunate incident but it is one that could have been avoided with just a little compliance.

Kap I don't know. Seemed a little excessive. I've watched a couple of the videos. I mean he could've explained that he was giving her a ticket because of the twisted teas and if her aunt showed up he'd rip it up. But in the article it didn't mention a ticket so I don't know.